ESPYs thread (1 Viewer)

[squistion]

Can someone post a list of the ESPY winners?

sure

Holy ####! Caitlyn Jenner won the Auther Ashe Award for Courage?? I had no idea!

And besides that she was also on the cover of Vanity Fair (since you haven't kept up with the news).

http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/2015/06/03/vanity-fair-caitlyn-jenner-secret/

 

[tommyboy]

Please refer to me as "Captain" from here on out

 

[Otis]

20 pages huh. Bet this is a neat thread.

 

[Parrothead]

Please refer to me as "Captain" from here on out

you identify as a rum?

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Can someone post a list of the ESPY winners?

sure

Holy ####! Caitlyn Jenner won the Auther Ashe Award for Courage?? I had no idea!

And besides that she was also on the cover of Vanity Fair (since you haven't kept up with the news).http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/2015/06/03/vanity-fair-caitlyn-jenner-secret/

Well, I'll be...

 

[squistion]

20 pages huh. Bet this is a neat thread.

At least as interesting as a bunch of fatties talking about trying to lose weight.

 

[Politician Spock]

Please refer to me as "Captain" from here on out

That's obvious.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I mean, I'd categorize the refusal to refer to a transgender person by the sex they've transitioned to as disrepectful. Not an egregious offense, but just disrespectful and rude, for no reason.

I think of it as being kinda equivalent to calling a middle aged woman Miss, and she takes offense or doesn't like it. That's fairly common. After she's objected, you can still do it, no one is going to say that it comes from a place of hate...but why would you? The person has made their preference clear. Another example: calling someone a variation of their name they don't like, or refusing to use whatever nickname they prefer. No one's going to say you hate the person, but...why would you do it?

It's extremely passive-aggressive, because what it says is "I am more qualified to decide what you should be called than you are, so I will make that decision".

I also agree with whoever said that it's a way to avoid legitimizing the transition. It's a not-so-subtle way to make it clear you aren't really a fan of transgender individuals in general. Again, it's not hate. It's not bigotry. But it's a hop, skip, and jump away from it, because it's the most politically correct way to say "I don't understand you, so I won't give in to your request to be called a man/woman. I won't respect your preference."

Unless you're doing it because you don't agree with the transition, what possible reason is there not to do it?

 

[rockaction]

I mean, I'd categorize the refusal to refer to a transgender person by the sex they've transitioned to as disrepectful. Not an egregious offense, but just disrespectful and rude, for no reason.

I think of it as being kinda equivalent to calling a middle aged woman Miss, and she takes offense or doesn't like it. That's fairly common. After she's objected, you can still do it, no one is going to say that it comes from a place of hate...but why would you? The person has made their preference clear. Another example: calling someone a variation of their name they don't like, or refusing to use whatever nickname they prefer. No one's going to say you hate the person, but...why would you do it?

It's extremely passive-aggressive, because what it says is "I am more qualified to decide what you should be called than you are, so I will make that decision".

I also agree with whoever said that it's a way to avoid legitimizing the transition. It's a not-so-subtle way to make it clear you aren't really a fan of transgender individuals in general. Again, it's not hate. It's not bigotry. But it's a hop, skip, and jump away from it, because it's the most politically correct way to say "I don't understand you, so I won't give in to your request to be called a man/woman. I won't respect your preference."

Unless you're doing it because you don't agree with the transition, what possible reason is there not to do it?

This really is a well thought-out post. I've disagreed with the essential point put forth, yet vacillate at times, simply because I don't want to be the person to deny someone their own self-definition on a personal level, even though I'll protest a bit.

The question I always have is what happens when identity becomes political? I'm almost fine with calling a person whatever they'd like, but when social or political obligations, rights, and duties flow therefrom, it's more of an issue, and the argument over identity comes more into play.

 

[tommyboy]

I wonder if s/he shaves? Like bald or landing strip

 

[SIDA!]

Unless you're doing it because you don't agree with the transition, what possible reason is there not to do it?

For the most part I agree with your post. I am not going to go back and look, but has the subject of Dolezal the NAACP chick been fleshed out?

Am I supposed to refer to her as an African-American or black American or whatever simply because she says she is?

Hey...you want to transition from being a man and into a woman. Go for it. You want me to call you Caitlyn, fine. Pick any name you want. But as long as your balls or hanging and your #### is jangling then you are a he as far as I am concerned.

If I was in a situation where I had to interact in some way with someone making the transition, then I would avoid using the he/she/him/her in his presence. I am not interested in intentionally trying to offend someone or hurt their feelings. But, I am not going to rewrite the meaning of words or pretend things just aren't the way they really are in name of being some socially progressive superstar.

 

[dparker713]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Unless you're doing it because you don't agree with the transition, what possible reason is there not to do it?

For the most part I agree with your post. I am not going to go back and look, but has the subject of Dolezal the NAACP chick been fleshed out?

Am I supposed to refer to her as an African-American or black American or whatever simply because she says she is?

Hey...you want to transition from being a man and into a woman. Go for it. You want me to call you Caitlyn, fine. Pick any name you want. But as long as your balls or hanging and your #### is jangling then you are a he as far as I am concerned.

If I was in a situation where I had to interact in some way with someone making the transition, then I would avoid using the he/she/him/her in his presence. I am not interested in intentionally trying to offend someone or hurt their feelings. But, I am not going to rewrite the meaning of words or pretend things just aren't the way they really are in name of being some socially progressive superstar.

Out of curiosity, how do you make this determination?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I mean, I'd categorize the refusal to refer to a transgender person by the sex they've transitioned to as disrepectful. Not an egregious offense, but just disrespectful and rude, for no reason.

I think of it as being kinda equivalent to calling a middle aged woman Miss, and she takes offense or doesn't like it. That's fairly common. After she's objected, you can still do it, no one is going to say that it comes from a place of hate...but why would you? The person has made their preference clear. Another example: calling someone a variation of their name they don't like, or refusing to use whatever nickname they prefer. No one's going to say you hate the person, but...why would you do it?

It's extremely passive-aggressive, because what it says is "I am more qualified to decide what you should be called than you are, so I will make that decision".

I also agree with whoever said that it's a way to avoid legitimizing the transition. It's a not-so-subtle way to make it clear you aren't really a fan of transgender individuals in general. Again, it's not hate. It's not bigotry. But it's a hop, skip, and jump away from it, because it's the most politically correct way to say "I don't understand you, so I won't give in to your request to be called a man/woman. I won't respect your preference."

Unless you're doing it because you don't agree with the transition, what possible reason is there not to do it?

He's a guy therefore he is referred to as a he. It isn't disrespectful. Power to him for what he is going through, it sure can't be easy, but he is still a male.

 

[Politician Spock]

I mean, I'd categorize the refusal to refer to a transgender person by the sex they've transitioned to as disrepectful. Not an egregious offense, but just disrespectful and rude, for no reason.

I think of it as being kinda equivalent to calling a middle aged woman Miss, and she takes offense or doesn't like it. That's fairly common. After she's objected, you can still do it, no one is going to say that it comes from a place of hate...but why would you? The person has made their preference clear. Another example: calling someone a variation of their name they don't like, or refusing to use whatever nickname they prefer. No one's going to say you hate the person, but...why would you do it?

It's extremely passive-aggressive, because what it says is "I am more qualified to decide what you should be called than you are, so I will make that decision".

I also agree with whoever said that it's a way to avoid legitimizing the transition. It's a not-so-subtle way to make it clear you aren't really a fan of transgender individuals in general. Again, it's not hate. It's not bigotry. But it's a hop, skip, and jump away from it, because it's the most politically correct way to say "I don't understand you, so I won't give in to your request to be called a man/woman. I won't respect your preference."

Unless you're doing it because you don't agree with the transition, what possible reason is there not to do it?

People are allowed to disagree with the transition, just as people are allowed to disagree with abortion. Just be civil and respectful of what people are... and then we can disagree on what people do.

 

[General Tso]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

 

[dparker713]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

 

[Christo]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

 

[Politician Spock]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

True, but it's not wrong to identify gender based solely on biological traits.

 

[SIDA!]

Unless you're doing it because you don't agree with the transition, what possible reason is there not to do it?

For the most part I agree with your post. I am not going to go back and look, but has the subject of Dolezal the NAACP chick been fleshed out?

Am I supposed to refer to her as an African-American or black American or whatever simply because she says she is?

Hey...you want to transition from being a man and into a woman. Go for it. You want me to call you Caitlyn, fine. Pick any name you want. But as long as your balls or hanging and your #### is jangling then you are a he as far as I am concerned.

If I was in a situation where I had to interact in some way with someone making the transition, then I would avoid using the he/she/him/her in his presence. I am not interested in intentionally trying to offend someone or hurt their feelings. But, I am not going to rewrite the meaning of words or pretend things just aren't the way they really are in name of being some socially progressive superstar.

Out of curiosity, how do you make this determination?

With my eyes and ears.

Is it 100% accurate, nope. But, people usually have a pretty good nose for these things.

If you are asking me if I am going to insist on referring to someone I believe is a man, but am not 100% sure, as a he...I guess it all depends. Kind of like when you are not sure if a woman is fat or just pregnant. If i can avoid it using he/she I will do my best.

Would you want to intentionally or accidentally embarrass or insult a woman with a particularly mannish appearance/deep voice? I don't.

 

[Christo]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

True, but it's not wrong to identify gender based solely on biological traits.

But it's wrong to insist that it's the only way to identify gender.

 

[Eminence]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

True, but it's not wrong to identify gender based solely on biological traits.

But it's wrong to insist that it's the only way to identify gender.

I disagree. A very small portion of the population suffers with their gender identity where I don't think we need to reinvent the spectrum.Should we make exceptions? Yes.

Should we change the rules of the game? No.

 

[Politician Spock]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

True, but it's not wrong to identify gender based solely on biological traits.

But it's wrong to insist that it's the only way to identify gender.

Those that say Jenner should only be called a she are the ones doing the insisting that it's the only way to identify Jenner's gender. The ones calling Jenner a he are choosing to do so based on biology, and not insisting that it's the only way.

 

[Scoresman]

True story. I worked at a deli through high school and college that had a good amount of regular customers. One of them was a dude when I started working there but over the years, this person slowly changed genders. Even after the transition was complete I would sometimes mess up and say "Can I help you, sir?" on accident. Was rather embarrassing but she was a good sport about it.

 

[SIDA!]

True story. I worked at a deli through high school and college that had a good amount of regular customers. One of them was a dude when I started working there but over the years, this person slowly changed genders. Even after the transition was complete I would sometimes mess up and say "Can I help you, sir?" on accident. Was rather embarrassing but she was a good sport about it.

Just curious but over that time did you develop a rapport with this person and did they ever discuss it with you? Like did they even verbally acknowledge the change with you or did they just act as if nothing was different?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Just be civil and respectful

You're pissing into the wind. The points have been made and maybe someday they'll sink in, but there are some true neanderthals in here. Admirable efforts by many in here to educate, but pointless to continue to engage imo. Might as well try to explain quantum physics to a kindergarten class.

I think you need a biology lesson spoodge.

 

[Eminence]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

True, but it's not wrong to identify gender based solely on biological traits.

But it's wrong to insist that it's the only way to identify gender.

I disagree. A very small portion of the population suffers with their gender identity where I don't think we need to reinvent the spectrum.Should we make exceptions? Yes.Should we change the rules of the game? No.

Shhh, the adults are talking. Go play with your Legos.

So you think we should redefine the definition of gender for the 2 - 5% of people who suffer from gender dysphoria? You don't think we should keep the standard male / female biological indicators that work for 95 - 98% of the population?

#burned

 

[Eminence]

^^^

Neat board.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

If a guy gets his twig and berries cut off in an unfortunate meat clever accident does that make him a woman because he no longer has a #### or balls?

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Even neater thread!

 

[General Tso]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

True, but it's not wrong to identify gender based solely on biological traits.

How does your method work for hermaphrodites?

 

[Scoresman]

True story. I worked at a deli through high school and college that had a good amount of regular customers. One of them was a dude when I started working there but over the years, this person slowly changed genders. Even after the transition was complete I would sometimes mess up and say "Can I help you, sir?" on accident. Was rather embarrassing but she was a good sport about it.

Just curious but over that time did you develop a rapport with this person and did they ever discuss it with you? Like did they even verbally acknowledge the change with you or did they just act as if nothing was different?

No, it was never brought up. I didn't really know the person outside of their favorite lunchmeat/cheese pairings. Any light conversation usually revolved around the weather or something about the store.

There was also a gay customer who had a crush on all of us behind the counter. We'd tease him like if he ordered a chicken breast sandwich we'd ask him if he wanted us to "rub sauce on his breast" and many salami innuendos, and stuff like that. I think that's why he kept coming back.

 

[SIDA!]

True story. I worked at a deli through high school and college that had a good amount of regular customers. One of them was a dude when I started working there but over the years, this person slowly changed genders. Even after the transition was complete I would sometimes mess up and say "Can I help you, sir?" on accident. Was rather embarrassing but she was a good sport about it.

Just curious but over that time did you develop a rapport with this person and did they ever discuss it with you? Like did they even verbally acknowledge the change with you or did they just act as if nothing was different?

No, it was never brought up. I didn't really know the person outside of their favorite lunchmeat/cheese pairings. Any light conversation usually revolved around the weather or something about the store.

There was also a gay customer who had a crush on all of us behind the counter. We'd tease him like if he ordered a chicken breast sandwich we'd ask him if he wanted us to "rub sauce on his breast" and many salami innuendos, and stuff like that. I think that's why he kept coming back.

Awesome.

 

[Politician Spock]

I guess I'd pose the question - why would you call Jenner a he when her preference is to be called a she?

Because he meets the definition of a he.

What's the harm in ceding to a person's wishes on this?

There's no harm in ceding to a person's wishes. But it's the other person's prerogative whether to cede or not. It made for some good comedy on the Seinfeld "Maestro" episode.

That definition is very much up for debate though, right? And with that in mind, why wouldn't someone just exercise a small modicum of kindness and cede to that simple request? Is it going to do harm not to?

The definition of "he" is not up for debate. It may evolve over time, but words are used to convey ideas. That requires both the user and the reader/listener to understand the meaning of the words. So one party can't unilaterally change a definition and expect to be understood.

If you don't find room for reasonable debate as to the current sex of Jenner then I think you're being a little disingenuous. Jenner has boobs, wears women's clothing, is taking medications that induce the production of all the same female hormones, and very shortly could be making the snip-snip that would just about end the debate once and for all. You may not like that society's definition of gender has morphed over the last 50 years into a somewhat blurry area, but that doesn't mean it hasn't occurred.

Nothing you mentioned has anything to do with altering chromosomes. And if you think society's definition of gender has become blurry over the past 50 years, you're kinda delusional.

Gender is more than just biology.

True, but it's not wrong to identify gender based solely on biological traits.

How does your method work for hermaphrodites?

How does it not work?

You can call a hermaphrodite a he for biological reasons. You can call a hermaphrodite a she for biological reasons. Neither is wrong.

You can call Jenner a he for biological reasons. You can call Jenner a she for mental reasons. Neither is wrong.

 

[SIDA!]

Politician Spock

In all seriousness...do you believe white people who insist that they are black should be referred to as African-Americans, black Americans, or what? If they believe they are trans-racial do you just go along with it and honor their reality?

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Politician Spock

In all seriousness...do you believe white people who insist that they are black should be referred to as African-Americans, black Americans, or what? If they believe they are trans-racial do you just go along with it and honor their reality?

How many ESPYs has the person won?

 

[squistion]

Politician Spock

In all seriousness...do you believe white people who insist that they are black should be referred to as African-Americans, black Americans, or what? If they believe they are trans-racial do you just go along with it and honor their reality?

You keep conflating Rachel Dolezal with transgender people. That was discussed earlier in this thread and I don't feel like rehashing it, but here is a link to one article that explains it.:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/comparison-transgender-people-rachel-dolezal

There is no comparison between transgender people and Rachel Dolezal

Meredith Talusan

The Spokane NAACP president outed as white chose to pass as black. Transgender people are just being themselves when they transition

 

[SIDA!]

Politician Spock

In all seriousness...do you believe white people who insist that they are black should be referred to as African-Americans, black Americans, or what? If they believe they are trans-racial do you just go along with it and honor their reality?

You keep conflating Rachel Dolezal with transgender people. That was discussed earlier in this thread and I don't feel like rehashing it, but here is a link to one article that explains it.:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/comparison-transgender-people-rachel-dolezal

There is no comparison between transgender people and Rachel Dolezal

Meredith Talusan

The Spokane NAACP president outed as white chose to pass as black. Transgender people are just being themselves when they transition

I am not conflating anything.

PS said:

"You can call Jenner a he for biological reasons. You can call Jenner a she for mental reasons. Neither is wrong."

Why do you get to pick or decide whether or not someone can identify as being trans-racial?

 

[squistion]

Politician Spock

In all seriousness...do you believe white people who insist that they are black should be referred to as African-Americans, black Americans, or what? If they believe they are trans-racial do you just go along with it and honor their reality?

You keep conflating Rachel Dolezal with transgender people. That was discussed earlier in this thread and I don't feel like rehashing it, but here is a link to one article that explains it.:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/comparison-transgender-people-rachel-dolezal

There is no comparison between transgender people and Rachel Dolezal

Meredith Talusan

The Spokane NAACP president outed as white chose to pass as black. Transgender people are just being themselves when they transition

I am not conflating anything.

PS said:

"You can call Jenner a he for biological reasons. You can call Jenner a she for mental reasons. Neither is wrong."

Why do you get to pick or decide whether or not someone can identify as being trans-racial?

Yeah, right.

 

[SIDA!]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

So you encounter a person who, for whatever reason, feels they identify as the opposite biological gender. Maybe a chromosome went wonky, maybe it's Satan, maybe some neurons are misfiring. Bottom line, they don't feel like they fit in, and it causes considerable trauma in their lives, to the point where maybe they consider suicide. They address said issue with hormone treatments, maybe surgery, and WALLA, they're walking around as the other sex now and finally feel some semblance of "normal".

OMG, you have to refer to this person with a new pronoun?! OMG, does this mean we redefine how genders are defined?! OMG, they don't cover this in the Bible, so I'd better err on the side of hating them just in case!

Why do you insist on taking a stand against this poor individual? I can remember feeling like I was going to throw up because my mom couldn't afford to buy me expensive clothes, $100 sneakers and ski trips like all the rich kids' parents. Could you begin to imagine what a transgender teen must go through?

If saying "she" instead of "he" might offer this person some small comfort in their otherwise confusing and tormented life, do ya think maybe you could find it within yourself to do so? On a very basic human compassionate level, is that really a difficult concession for you to make?

Squistion:

You liked this post above.

So I ask one again, why do you get to decide who can and cannot identify themselves as being trans-racial?

 

[timschochet]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

 

[eoMMan]

She just bought herself a 2015 Lamborghini....

http://artofgears.com/2015/07/22/caitlyn-jenner-bought-herself-a-2015-lamborghini-aventador/

 

[eoMMan]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

Have you checked out your thread?

Burn!

 

[Ditka Butkus]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

I agree. I can't believe there are actually people who call male, female.. even though science disagrees.

 

[Joe T]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

Have you checked out your thread?

Burn!

 

[Joe Summer]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

I agree. I can't believe there are actually people who call male, female.. even though science disagrees.

Since when do conservatives look to science as the arbiter of truth?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

I agree. I can't believe there are actually people who call male, female.. even though science disagrees.

Since when do conservatives look to science as the arbiter of truth?

When it supports our argument...

 

[rockaction]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

Wait, with due respect to you and your personage, a month ago you didn't even know that the political implications of gender identity included the movement toward using public restrooms willy-nilly, and now you're assured that people in this thread are the worst ever?

I dunno, tim.

 

[General Tso]

My god, the idiocy in this thread.

Its as bad as I've ever seen it in this forum.

I agree. I can't believe there are actually people who call male, female.. even though science disagrees.

Since when do conservatives look to science as the arbiter of truth?

When it supports our argument...

Perfect use of that emoticon.

 

[Politician Spock]

Politician Spock

In all seriousness...do you believe white people who insist that they are black should be referred to as African-Americans, black Americans, or what? If they believe they are trans-racial do you just go along with it and honor their reality?

I don't call anybody by their race. It's just a disaster waiting to happen.