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ESPYs thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
An error occurredYou have reached your quota of positive votes for the dayLimp Ditka said:
CBusAlex
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
Of course. I posted the Lauren Hill segment in this thread and on FB. Her award segment is getting about 1/1000th the attention as the Jenner award, which is the basis for my assertion that ESPN made the right call.
matttyl
Footballguy
Odd etiquette question.
The first sentence in this article says "Jessica Steindorff, the driver of the Prius involved in the fatal car crash in which Caitlyn Jenner was also a driver." Caitlyn Jenner wasn't the driver, Bruce Jenner was - correct? Did the name change go through retroactively to the time prior to Jenner being asked to be called "Caitlyn"? If so, how far back does it go? To the Olympics?
I mean they time before Muhammad Ali changed his name is still referred to as Cassius Clay winning boxing matches.
bigbottom
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
If you were writing about Laura Bush's car crash, you wouldn't say "Laura Welch was the driver in a fatal car crash," would you? You'd use her current name to reference her, no matter when the thing you're talking about happened.
bigbottom
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
So then Caitlyn Jenner was the winner of the 1976 Men's decathlon at the Olympics? That just doesn't sound right to me. Again using Muhammad Ali as an example (as I think that's more appropriate here in that the name change wasn't due to marriage), he's referred to as Clay through all of his early fights.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
So Jenner hit the Prius into oncoming traffic? That video was a little hard to figure out.
matttyl
Footballguy
Published July 9th. The crash was in February. A few things have happened in Jenner's life since then, just odd at the timing of it. Sorry if this isn't the place to discuss this, didn't mean to hijack an otherwise splendid thread.
matttyl
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
That is brutal - it seems pretty obvious that it's Jenner's fault but I don't know anything about what that would mean from a charges standpoint.
Emerson Biggens
Footballguy
Wow, that plays out a whole lot different than I had previously read. I had read it was basically the Prius driver's fault because they stopped dead in a highway lane. Not even close. This was heavy traffic and the Prius was only 2-3 car lengths from the car in front of it. The Lexus was behind the Prius and "Caitlyn" was behind the Lexus. She(he at the time) while pulling a trailer with a vehicle of some sort on it was following so close that he plowed through the Lexus, pushed it out of the way into oncoming traffic and then plowed into the Prius too. Damn! Totally her/his fault.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I think you could say that Bruce Jenner was the winner of the 1976 Men's decathlon, just like the winner of the gold medal in light heavyweight boxing in the 1960 Olympics was Cassius Clay. Those are statements of the results of an event, not statements about what the person did in the past. You could, however, say that Caitlyn Jenner and Muhammed Ali won gold medals in the 1976 and 1960 Olympics. When you go from recounting the results of a past event to talking about what a person did in their past you go from using their name at the time to their present name. That's what you'd do with a woman who married and took on her husband's name, right?
That's my take, anyway. Kind of confusing, I know.
Parrothead
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
"Bruce" is who is being sued in the civil suit - but the name change didn't happen until the next month. I guess I'm just wondering about the name of the individual with this legal suit specifically. It was a male, Bruce Jenner, involved in the accident. Anyway, continue discussing the ESPYs....
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Probably men's prison. There's practical reasons for that distinction.
There's usually obvious practical answer to these sorts of questions. Bathrooms? Let transgenders use whatever gender they identify with, otherwise it's gonna get pretty awkward (check out the John Oliver video for an example). Prisons? You don't people reproducing in prison, so you default to biological sex there. Post-ops to their new gender, pre-ops to their previous gender. Sports? Let transgender people play in their chosen gender only if they don't gain a competitive advantage. So most transgender women could play men's sports, but not the other way around. And maybe you'd reverse it for gymnastics or something where people born as women would have an advantage, or just require people to play in the gender they were born with in those sports.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Male or female doesn't matter here, it's just a name change. You treat it exactly the same as a person who was single at the time of the accident but got married and took their husband's name during the legal proceedings. It's pretty simple, really.
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
EYLive
Footballguy
I really don't. I don't don't know any transgendered people that I can ask, so I'm uninformed on the subject. Apparently there are lots of enlightened people here but they don't want to share. Please educate me.
tdoss
Footballguy
Interesting notion...would having a penis actually have merit finally in this determination? I'd think you gotta factor that in...
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
If you're uninformed and you know it, why make the above post? It's pure ignorance.
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Parrothead
Footballguy
he's a man- not gay- still attracted to women.. he's a cross-dresser who thinks he's a lesbian
tdoss
Footballguy
Yea, following too close, heavy load and too fast. But I'm sure his lawyers will say it's somehow the city's fault for not regulating traffic better or signage or something.
Vehicular manslaughter
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Lotta ignorance in here. Like listening to an old man wonder who is the man and who is the woman in a gay relationship...just a small-minded moron trying to fit something he doesn't understand into his antiquated world-view.
tdoss
Footballguy
We put lesbian in with women and gays in with men.
Don't really care what his sexual preference is...I think it just comes down to a question of your junk.
What ya got down there?
If it swings...then you go with the dingalings.
EYLive
Footballguy
So I already please ignorance, and you pile on by calling me names?
I'm still waiting for an educated response from you, oh wise one.
tdoss
Footballguy
Sounds like Skins has it all figured out.
What prison does he go to?
Who won the Olympics...Bruce or Caitlyn (honestly...with all this talk lately, I think he missed a great opportunity to call himself "Courage Jenner")
If Caitlyn were to compete...does she compete with males or females or do we exclude altogether?
EYLive
Footballguy
Waiting for your well-informed explanation. If you want to insult others some more, have at it... I'm patient.
EYLive
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
Your original question was pretty insulting to trans people.
Waiting for your well-informed explanation. If you want to insult others some more, have at it... I'm patient.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I'm not even sure what you're asking for. A simple google search and an open mind will get you about 80% of what you need, which is just a basic understanding of what it even means to be transgendered. The other 20% you need to intelligently discuss this topic is compassion for what the person is going through. That's harder to come by, because even in 2015 the vast majority of people (especially the majority demographic on FBG's) out there don't actually know anyone in their personal lives who is transgender.I do. One of my best friends in college was a guy named Alex, who became a girl named Laura. Alex was a hell of an athlete, liked to drink cheap beer, and was obsessed with StarCraft2 in college. By our senior year, he felt comfortable telling us that he had always struggled with gender identity, and after years of counseling was going to transition. She's much happier now, with none of the inner demons that had plagued her for over 20 years.
I'm happy to answer any questions I can, although my knowledge is strictly what I've read and what I learned being friends with someone going through this.
Just remember--ignorance is innocent until it's been brought to your attention. Then, if you refuse to educate yourself, it becomes malicious. I don't think you meant to be insulting towards the trans community with your comments (although I think you knew it was insensitive and didn't care). I think you just honestly are in over your head with a difficult topic that doesn't fit everyone's world-view. That can change, though.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
mods> can we please change Em's avatar to a head shot of Cait Jenner? TIA
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I think this is similar to the Angelina Jolie double mastectomy story.
Some don't get the big deal and think she's an attention whore at best, and an opportunist at worst.
But the ones who understand, see that standing up and addressing/doing something difficult in front of the world when you have the world's attention is a great thing, and does a lot for others out there who didn't have the courage to take charge of their life in a similar manner.
Jenner's very public transition is the same thing.
otello
Footballguy
I bet his mom calls him David.
Has he had the court hearing to have the name and gender changed? Doesn't matter what anyone thinks or what anyone has down there, it's a matter of official record.
Chemical X
Footballguy
i believe part of the issue here is motivation. was alex married multiple Times with multiple children? is alex part of an attention whoring family? did he transition at 60+ yrs? did alex get a TV show?I'm not even sure what you're asking for. A simple google search and an open mind will get you about 80% of what you need, which is just a basic understanding of what it even means to be transgendered. The other 20% you need to intelligently discuss this topic is compassion for what the person is going through. That's harder to come by, because even in 2015 the vast majority of people (especially the majority demographic on FBG's) out there don't actually know anyone in their personal lives who is transgender.I do. One of my best friends in college was a guy named Alex, who became a girl named Laura. Alex was a hell of an athlete, liked to drink cheap beer, and was obsessed with StarCraft2 in college. By our senior year, he felt comfortable telling us that he had always struggled with gender identity, and after years of counseling was going to transition. She's much happier now, with none of the inner demons that had plagued her for over 20 years.
I'm happy to answer any questions I can, although my knowledge is strictly what I've read and what I learned being friends with someone going through this.
Just remember--ignorance is innocent until it's been brought to your attention. Then, if you refuse to educate yourself, it becomes malicious. I don't think you meant to be insulting towards the trans community with your comments (although I think you knew it was insensitive and didn't care). I think you just honestly are in over your head with a difficult topic that doesn't fit everyone's world-view. That can change, though.
my point is that some people have an issue with the LAM motivation. people that transition with little fanfare and little to gain except truce peace are likely looked at differently by many, including myself. jenner decided to transition as a means of gaining a spinoff.
Scoresman
Footballguy
i believe part of the issue here is motivation. was alex married multiple Times with multiple children? is alex part of an attention whoring family? did he transition at 60+ yrs? did alex get a TV show?I'm not even sure what you're asking for. A simple google search and an open mind will get you about 80% of what you need, which is just a basic understanding of what it even means to be transgendered. The other 20% you need to intelligently discuss this topic is compassion for what the person is going through. That's harder to come by, because even in 2015 the vast majority of people (especially the majority demographic on FBG's) out there don't actually know anyone in their personal lives who is transgender.I do. One of my best friends in college was a guy named Alex, who became a girl named Laura. Alex was a hell of an athlete, liked to drink cheap beer, and was obsessed with StarCraft2 in college. By our senior year, he felt comfortable telling us that he had always struggled with gender identity, and after years of counseling was going to transition. She's much happier now, with none of the inner demons that had plagued her for over 20 years.
I'm happy to answer any questions I can, although my knowledge is strictly what I've read and what I learned being friends with someone going through this.
Just remember--ignorance is innocent until it's been brought to your attention. Then, if you refuse to educate yourself, it becomes malicious. I don't think you meant to be insulting towards the trans community with your comments (although I think you knew it was insensitive and didn't care). I think you just honestly are in over your head with a difficult topic that doesn't fit everyone's world-view. That can change, though.
my point is that some people have an issue with the LAM motivation. people that transition with little fanfare and little to gain except truce peace are likely looked at differently by many, including myself. jenner decided to transition as a means of gaining a spinoff.[\b]
This has to be schtick. 
T J
Footballguy
Yep. Suggesting a boytoy/male prostitute sex scandal because I don't happen to agree with you and think Jenner is a freak? That's a bit over the top don'tcha think? I've got zero problem with gays also. Not my thing, but no problem at all. I'm referring to Jenner specifically and you go places I never even contemplated which to me makes you extremely immature and unable to focus on what's actually being said. But if it makes you feel better to write those things then whatever. Enjoy.You're the one that has to look away from people that are different than you, but I'm the one acting like a 13 year old?
Stinger Ray
Footballguy
Has there been any confirmation he had his junk removed? The last thing I read was he didn't.
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