Ethics - is it OK to try to lose? (1 Viewer)

[toonarmy]

We have a head to head league and a buddy of mine is talking about purposely trying to lose so he plays a lower seed in the play-offs; this may impact another guy who is trying to make the play-offs in that if the first guy lays down, his opponent would qualify over the second guy, even if the second guy wins.

So is it wrong to purposely try to lose by fielding your bench players and benching your studs (as opposed to accepting a potential loss, e.g. if someone goes down for a Monday night game and you didn't want to drop him just to field a free agent scrub last minute) and kick someone else out, or is it fair game if it's not breaking a rule?

Interested in what the team thinks. This is a league of ex co-workers, rather than an anonymous online league, though that may or not make a difference to how people would feel about it.

 

[Saint]

You play to win the game.

Personally, I never tank a game as it is total bragging rights. In addition, we established a payout each week for the highest scorer, so you basically lose money if you don't try to win.

 

[Chimp Magnet]

Zero tolerance for tanking. If a team in my league openly admitted to tanking I'd be looking for his replacement in the offseason.

 

[solorca]

I have strongly considered putting in lesser players to give myself the #4 seed instead of the #3 seed in a league, because the 5 seed (who I would be playing in the first round) is much weaker due to injuries than the team who will be the 6 seed. In the end, I decided against it, because I feel pretty confident that karma would end up screwing me over when I play the "lesser' opponent and he puts up his best game of the year.

 

[SWC]

i would not do it but all of the supertough guys who say they would replace an owner who lost on purpose for strategery style are sort of ridiculous because every league has people with different ideas of how to strategize and set up there teams its sort of like having an al davis or a bill the rathoodie bellicheck in your league you just never know what they will do so that adds excitement and if you want a league where everyone thinks and acts exactly like you then why even play and anyhow unless you play in some dorktacular league with a rule against it you cant say boo

not for me but i would not try to burn anyones house down for doing it but i might make a post about it on our leage message board asking if they like the raiders

 

[footballnerd]

Fantasy Gods will show their judgment come first round of playoffs

 

[DropKick]

i would not do it but all of the supertough guys who say they would replace an owner who lost on purpose for strategery style are sort of ridiculous because every league has people with different ideas of how to strategize and set up there teams its sort of like having an al davis or a bill the rathoodie bellicheck in your league you just never know what they will do so that adds excitement and if you want a league where everyone thinks and acts exactly like you then why even play and anyhow unless you play in some dorktacular league with a rule against it you cant say boonot for me but i would not try to burn anyones house down for doing it but i might make a post about it on our leage message board asking if they like the raiders

Class and punctuation are good things.

 

[stugnut]

Fantasy Gods will show their judgment come first round of playoffs

Fact.

 

[toonarmy]

not for me but i would not try to burn anyones house down for doing it but i might make a post about it on our leage message board asking if they like the raiders

hehe.Thanks for the replies everyone - I told him the country thinks he's a snake oil.

 

[Danish Bengal]

Let the top seed(s) have a free choice of opponent(s) from the lower seeds instead of making the match-ups God given before the season.

Problem solved

 

[TitanicHornet]

I am in a situation like that now. After being the league champ last 2 seasons, my team bombed this year. I am 2nd last and I cannot make the playoffs and can only win a max of 6 games, if I win my final 2 games that is. Currently there are 4 teams on 6 wins and I play 1 of them this week.

I am flirting with the idea of tanking my final 2 games to guarantee me the 2nd overall pick next season but my competetive spirit is swinging my the other way and to play it out, possibly ruining someone elses chances of making the playoffs.

 

[Truman]

i would not do it but all of the supertough guys who say they would replace an owner who lost on purpose for strategery style are sort of ridiculous because every league has people with different ideas of how to strategize and set up there teams its sort of like having an al davis or a bill the rathoodie bellicheck in your league you just never know what they will do so that adds excitement and if you want a league where everyone thinks and acts exactly like you then why even play and anyhow unless you play in some dorktacular league with a rule against it you cant say boonot for me but i would not try to burn anyones house down for doing it but i might make a post about it on our leage message board asking if they like the raiders

Okay, but teams which start a 3rd string blocking TE and a kickoff specialist can go to hell.

 

[Truman]

I am in a situation like that now. After being the league champ last 2 seasons, my team bombed this year. I am 2nd last and I cannot make the playoffs and can only win a max of 6 games, if I win my final 2 games that is. Currently there are 4 teams on 6 wins and I play 1 of them this week.I am flirting with the idea of tanking my final 2 games to guarantee me the 2nd overall pick next season but my competetive spirit is swinging my the other way and to play it out, possibly ruining someone elses chances of making the playoffs.

If you do you should be booted. There are leagues I'm in the running for first overall but I'm still rolling out my top guys.

 

[geoff8695]

Fantasy Gods will show their judgment come first round of playoffs

THIS:voice of experience:

 

[bonesman]

I am flirting with the idea of tanking my final 2 games to guarantee me the 2nd overall pick next season but my competetive spirit is swinging my the other way and to play it out, possibly ruining someone elses chances of making the playoffs.

Now THAT I find pretty despicable. I can see the argument that tanking to improve playoff chances is good gamesmanship though. The system is designed to reward you for wins (1st seed plays worst seed)... however sometimes the worst seed is better than the 2nd to worst, due to injuries or whatever.

 

[Truman]

I am flirting with the idea of tanking my final 2 games to guarantee me the 2nd overall pick next season but my competetive spirit is swinging my the other way and to play it out, possibly ruining someone elses chances of making the playoffs.

Now THAT I find pretty despicable. I can see the argument that tanking to improve playoff chances is good gamesmanship though. The system is designed to reward you for wins (1st seed plays worst seed)... however sometimes the worst seed is better than the 2nd to worst, due to injuries or whatever.

Sweet. And Trent Richardson is better than not Trent Richardson.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

You play fantasy football to win the title. If you think changing your playoff seed gets you a better path to the title, it would be foolish to purposely hurt your own team. If winning a meaningless game (for you) hurts your chances (in your opinion), it's not your responsibility to help someone else make the playoffs.

The idea of throwing a game does sound unpalatable, but trying to win all your games like a mindless robot-- and possibly hurting your title chances as a result-- seems absurd. As someone previously said, the top seeds should choose their opponents. That way there's no incentive to change your seed. You can pick your fight if you're #1, and you can't hide if you're not.

 

[bonesman]

I am flirting with the idea of tanking my final 2 games to guarantee me the 2nd overall pick next season but my competetive spirit is swinging my the other way and to play it out, possibly ruining someone elses chances of making the playoffs.

Now THAT I find pretty despicable. I can see the argument that tanking to improve playoff chances is good gamesmanship though. The system is designed to reward you for wins (1st seed plays worst seed)... however sometimes the worst seed is better than the 2nd to worst, due to injuries or whatever.

Sweet. And Trent Richardson is better than not Trent Richardson.

Sweet The part of my post you didn't bold has to do with the systems in place which represent the spirit of the rules. The worst team gets the first pick... losing on purpose to get a higher pick is not in line with the spirit of that rule.

The best team gets the worst opponent.... tanking in that situation IS in line with the spirit of the rule as long the person you're losing to doesn't cost someone else a playoff berth that would've otherwise been playoff bound.

But yea, you're right Trent Richardson is better than not Trent Richardson... so go ahead and lose on purpose you failure, there's always next year for guys like you.

 

[David Yudkin]

LINK

 

[Bri]

I am in a situation like that now. After being the league champ last 2 seasons, my team bombed this year. I am 2nd last and I cannot make the playoffs and can only win a max of 6 games, if I win my final 2 games that is. Currently there are 4 teams on 6 wins and I play 1 of them this week.I am flirting with the idea of tanking my final 2 games to guarantee me the 2nd overall pick next season but my competetive spirit is swinging my the other way and to play it out, possibly ruining someone elses chances of making the playoffs.

If you do you should be booted. There are leagues I'm in the running for first overall but I'm still rolling out my top guys.

why would someone tanking change anything for you?

 

[Bri]

If two 4-8 teams were playing in week 13, what else is their to play for other than a better draft pick?

Is it wrong for a dynasty FFer to replace his whole team with rookies? Say he's building for the future or whatnot? Because that guy's record is going to stink. Isn't that tanking?

 

[Lascelle]

Any thoughts on deliberately tanking your final game in a situation where it DOESN'T impact another owner's ability to qualify for the playoffs?

Let's say you've clinched your spot, facing an already eliminated opponent and losing intentionally will enable you to A) avoid the hottest team in the league with a stacked roster in Week 14 (which would be a likely possibility should you win) and B) ensure higher waiver priority the next week as well?

 

[Topes]

Any thoughts on deliberately tanking your final game in a situation where it DOESN'T impact another owner's ability to qualify for the playoffs?

Let's say you've clinched your spot, facing an already eliminated opponent and losing intentionally will enable you to A) avoid the hottest team in the league with a stacked roster in Week 14 (which would be a likely possibility should you win) and B) ensure higher waiver priority the next week as well?

Would it somehow not affect any other owner's playoff seeding, as well..?

 

[DoubleG]

Fantasy Gods will show their judgment come first round of playoffs

Fact.

True dis.

 

[FUBAR]

Fantasy Gods will show their judgment come first round of playoffs

Fact.

True dis.

Word

 

[habsfan]

Re-seeding each round would also help to a small degree with people trying to avoid a particular half of the "bracket".

 

[Lascelle]

Any thoughts on deliberately tanking your final game in a situation where it DOESN'T impact another owner's ability to qualify for the playoffs?

Let's say you've clinched your spot, facing an already eliminated opponent and losing intentionally will enable you to A) avoid the hottest team in the league with a stacked roster in Week 14 (which would be a likely possibility should you win) and B) ensure higher waiver priority the next week as well?

Would it somehow not affect any other owner's playoff seeding, as well..?

Playoff seeding? Sure. That's kind of the point.In a perfect world every fantasy league would let playoff teams choose their opponents in order of rank.

But let's face it... none of our leagues are doing that.

If I field my best roster this week, I win, finish 2nd in the standings and face a likely matchup with a team that's won 5 straight, scored the most in the past month and snuck in to the playoffs due to stockpiling top free agents in the league basement for the first 8 weeks of the season (this team was 2-6 at one point). This team narrowly defeated me two weeks ago and I get no jellybeans if I'm one-and-done in the playoffs.

Whereas if I lose my meaningless matchup this week, I can face a team without nearly as much firepower and virtually guarantee a payout.

 

[Shutout]

Whenever you start trying to manipulate the system and outhink the fantasy gods, you WILL lose. That hot team you are trying to avoid will suddenly become the 2-6 team you remember and the guy that beats him will knock you out in the next round, whereas had you just played the guy, you will look back and see that you would have won the league had you just played the guy.

It's just ineveitable. Trying to outhink yourself is going down the slippery slope.

Everyone in these forums have their stories of their "great" team that fell flat; their scrappy team that got hot at the right time, etc. It really is all for naught.

FF playoffs are such a crapshoot, you just never know.

On the question: I would NOT consider it tanking if that was the "strategy" behind the move. Its not that different than the choice of who to claim in a waiver. HOWEVER, what it really does is affects things in other ways. Choosing to lose against a guy may open the door for someone else to get in that maybe wouldn't. And then he might win games that he otherwise shouldn't have, etc. Very big snowball effect potential. So you can call that strategy when you look back at it or call it a really bad mistake (or brilliant "strategical" move). In the end you will call it whatever it justifes based on how it affected YOU.

Now, if a team that is losing to try to improve draft slots, especially in a dynasty; those are the guys that need to be removed because that IS tanking and those are the games sometimes that open doors for other teams to get into the playoffs that should not when a team lays down (you beat me in week one when you care but give a game to someone else in week 13 when you're out of it and the result is that guy makes the playoffs instead of me and a few others that played a much tougher team when you still cared).

 

[habsfan]

Tanking is another one of those words in the fantasy lexicon that drives me nuts. Short of benching an entire roster or having someone openly admit they tried to lose, what does "tanking" look like exactly?

If I sit Brees for Cam Newton and Gonzalez for Olsen are you kicking me out of your league?

 

[David Yudkin]

Tanking is another one of those words in the fantasy lexicon that drives me nuts. Short of benching an entire roster or having someone openly admit they tried to lose, what does "tanking" look like exactly?If I sit Brees for Cam Newton and Gonzalez for Olsen are you kicking me out of your league?

What if you benched Brees for Skelton and Forte for Danny Woodhead? Calvin Johnson for Jerricho Cotchery?