Hillary is Usain Bolt? Who would just a normal person off the street be? The Flash?Hillary was clearly more moral than Trump. Like, it's not even close.
In a moral race between Hillary and Trump, it'd be like Usain Bolt vs a toddler.
Hillary is Usain Bolt? Who would just a normal person off the street be? The Flash?Hillary was clearly more moral than Trump. Like, it's not even close.
In a moral race between Hillary and Trump, it'd be like Usain Bolt vs a toddler.
a photonHillary is Usain Bolt? Who would just a normal person off the street be? The Flash?
Luckily, pope hats can be bought in bulk.Yes, but I have to chuckle a little bit at "a" pope.
In speaking against the Pope, Luther created a thousand popes.
I’d be interested in seeing a timeline prior to him getting elected around some of his quotes and positions. I never for a minute considered voting for Trump but I honestly didn’t know anything about his views. If you had asked me in say 2015 I think I would have said he’s an idiot because he thinks vaccines cause autism and he hates Obama but that was maybe the extent of what I knew. My big problem (and still one of my major issues) was how unqualified he was (and is). Once he started with the wall nonsense and his insensitive claims about Mexicans it became more clear what he was about but I just don’t recall when that was.The majority of evangelicals loved Trump from the beginning.
Day One when he announced his candidacy.I’d be interested in seeing a timeline prior to him getting elected around some of his quotes and positions. I never for a minute considered voting for Trump but I honestly didn’t know anything about his views. If you had asked me in say 2015 I think I would have said he’s an idiot because he thinks vaccines cause autism and he hates Obama but that was maybe the extent of what I knew. My big problem (and still one of my major issues) was how unqualified he was (and is). Once he started with the wall nonsense and his insensitive claims about Mexicans it became more clear what he was about but I just don’t recall when that was.
Obviosuly that was definitely well before he wrapped up the nomination but my point is that I feel that how truly awful he is has been revealed over time. It doesn’t absolve anyone of anything however.
Matthias said:He acknowledged that doesn’t seem very Christian, “but again, I think this president, in his authenticity, is what has connected with people.”
I gave him one for the dijonDid Obama get a mulligan for having a Muslim name?
Here's the interview in case anyone wants to see it.Franklin Graham is a buffoon. "Trump's alleged affairs are 11-12 years ago. He's matured alot since then. " I'm glad our 70 year old POTUS is finally of the age where he can begin to mature. Geez. On CNN now. Also complained about how Trump is constantly attacked. Don Lemon asked him if we've ever had another POTUS who he himself attacks everyone all the time. Cognitive dissonance with all the religious right defense of Trump.
Maybe Graham missed the part of the Bible that says leaders are held to a higher standard, the implication being that adultery with a porn star while your latest wife takes care of your 4-month-old kid doesn't get mulliganed away! As Christians, we're supposed to be Christ-like, but what a sad state we are in when the "leaders" can't even lead.Here's the interview in case anyone wants to see it.
- Lemon really embarrasses Graham. - Graham: "He's not the pastor of our country".
I'd be okay with the Christian spirit of forgiveness here if Trump admitted wrongdoing, asked for forgiveness, and sincerely vowed to do better in the future. In that case, let the first stone be cast by whoever hasn't paid hush money to a porn star.Saw that article where Trump got a "mulligan," and immediately went into a rage. How dare you claim to speak for anyone but himself, Tony Perkins! If Trump is in fact a Christian(I personally doubt that, but it's not up to me), we are called to correct his behavior, not excuse it! You have no authority, no credibility, and I am extremely thankful I do not attend your church! Do not presume to lecture me or anyone else about morality! You have no say!
The problem is that so many self-titled evangelicals have mated their religion and their political beliefs, when Jesus advocated no such thing. He preached that earthly rulers were there because of the overall plan God has(it's a long story and I don't understand a lot of it, but it's not my job to try), but a lot of evangelicals seem to be treating the Republican party as an extension of the church.I'd be okay with the Christian spirit of forgiveness here if Trump admitted wrongdoing, asked for forgiveness, and sincerely vowed to do better in the future. In that case, let the first stone be cast by whoever hasn't paid hush money to a porn star.
But if Trump is going to continue to dissemble, Christian leaders should call him out on it rather than selling him special dispensation in return for ... whatever it is that Evangelicals think Trump actually does for them.
And it is apparent that Pope Francis is no fan of Trump but really hasn't gone on the attack against him but that is not something he would or should do.So 500 years after the Reformation, evangelical preachers are doling out indulgences.
They should all congregate and elect a pope too. Pope Cleetus I, leader of the New Catholics.
True statement. If many of them studied Him and His word, they'd find that foreigners are not to be mistreated, the poor and widows are to be cared for(not by the government, though), he advocated paying taxes(render to Caesar), among other things.I don't know that the issue is so much that evangelicals vote their political beliefs as much as that their political beliefs seem diametrically opposed to the Jesus they supposedly think is pretty swell.
Can you quote HIS words? Asking for a friend.True statement. If many of them studied Him and His word, they'd find that foreigners are not to be mistreated, the poor and widows are to be cared for(not by the government, though), he advocated paying taxes(render to Caesar), among other things.
Was going to Hipple a prior post and say essentially this, but obviously MT has already said it better.I'd be okay with the Christian spirit of forgiveness here if Trump admitted wrongdoing, asked for forgiveness, and sincerely vowed to do better in the future. In that case, let the first stone be cast by whoever hasn't paid hush money to a porn star.
But if Trump is going to continue to dissemble, Christian leaders should call him out on it rather than selling him special dispensation in return for ... whatever it is that Evangelicals think Trump actually does for them.
Oof...crappy aliases. proninja is good peopleGot divorced. Didn't handle it well. Crawled in a metaphorical hole and didn't do a damn thing except drink for a month or so about a decade ago. Sadly, during that time period one of my customers at work (mortgage lender) was a FBG. I let him down. The FBG I let down and his wife have graciously accepted my sincere and profuse apologies in person, for which I am very thankful. They are great people.
Ten years later some guy with an alias thinks that handling the most painful experience of my life poorly is something that it's cool to mock me for anonymously.
Not a innocent man among us.In the crappy alias's defense, I'm not sure I like ten to fifteen year ago me very much
Pffft I was completely reasonable on this board ten years agoNot a innocent man among us.
Just curious.......what did the old ladies think about Hillary? Or Obama for that matter?I go to a bible church which supports a lot of foreign missionaries - so the church could be defined as evangelical, but it is not associated with any evangelical body. All that said - there are more people against Trump in this church than for him. They really, REALLY don't like him. I would say if you polled the church it would be about 95% self described conservative/republican - but you would not know it these last couple years during the campaign and now presidency of Trump. It is actually kind of comical to see some of the old ladies in the Women's Guild (or whatever they call it) get so righteously indignant about the president.
I guess it is similar to blacks and Mexicans supporting Democrats.I don't understand it.
Trump is one of the least moral folks we've had as president in some time. He's an incredible hypocrite, he treats people terrible, he's a horrible role model, his treatment of women is atrocious, he has cheated on his spouses repeatedly, he's ignorant of religion, yet he has their full support.
What in the world is going on here?
Has the evangelical world sold their souls, compromising on the longstanding stance that a moral leader is important, in order to get conservative policies passed?
Yeah, I mean I don’t feel compelled to defend anyone who happens to peripherally share similar doctrinal beliefs. I’m responsible for what’s been placed in my hand. My sphere of influence is pretty small, I stay in my lane.Hi Adonis,
I don't have any answers or insights here. But I'll say I hear you on all this.
I don't get it either. I know the poll numbers and while I think defining "evangelical" as we've discussed on the boards in the past is difficult and part of the problem. I'm not going to argue there much.
I will say in my personal experience, I know a lot of people who feel like me and are unable to reconcile our faith with the President's behavior. That can get dangerous and into church lady finger wagging territory - one of the things Christians are often criticized for. But the bigger danger for me I think is people rightly seeing what you're seeing.
I'll just say I think there are a lot of people like me who are Christians and agree with the disconnect your describe. But clearly it's an issue as a great many do not. Not sure what to do about it other than do what I can with what I have.
He said for us to do it, at least.I am unaware of a place in the Bible where Jesus says the government shouldn't care for the mistreated, poor, and widows though. Where do you find that?
That's them right there.Many of them voted for Trump based solely on the single issue of abortion -
I don’t personally know a single person who self-identifies as Evangelical; its laughably outdated,
He also told you to pay your taxes...Right, and that's something totally different than telling us that our government shouldn't do it.
True. I was incorrect in my earlier statement.Right, and that's something totally different than telling us that our government shouldn't do it.
I am sure they were against Obama - maybe I am stereotyping old conservative church ladies - but didn't here much about Hillary. There were a lot of the younger ladies in our church that actually backed Hillary because they were so appalled by idea of a Trump presidency.[scooter] said:Just curious.......what did the old ladies think about Hillary? Or Obama for that matter?
And here is the Republican Platform from 1956.Matthias said:You know who founded the KKK? Southern Racists.
You know who got upset about Equal Rights? Southern Racists.
You know what Southern Racists did? Left the Democratic Party.
You know what they did next? Joined the Republican Party.
It's super cute that Republicans think racism and the Klan was bad 70 years ago when the racists belonged to the Democratic Party. But now, in the current day, they don't GAF. And instead elect a racist, cheer on racists, and cheer on the President's racist comments.
"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."Sounds like a far left wing platform
So by this logic they’ll support the Devil so long as he delivers on campaign promises.Matthias said:https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/25/tony-perkins-trump-evangelical-support-369454
Family Research Council president Tony Perkins said Thursday that while evangelicals would not ignore President Donald Trump's past "personal failings," they would conditionally support him so long as he continued to deliver on his promised Christian-friendly agenda.
Perkins said in the memo Thursday that allegations of infidelity and sexual misconduct leveled against the president would be "unconscionable" if proven true and that evangelicals would not stand by him if he were to "revert to the behavior of his past."
But, Perkins wrote, "the reality is, he has kept his promises, so why would we stop supporting him based on allegations of repugnant behavior from more than a decade ago?"
"This isn't blind allegiance on the part of evangelicals," Perkins added. "This is reasoned support for a political leader who has made and kept his campaign promises."
Perkins cited Trump's record on appointing pro-life judges and his selection of Vice President Mike Pence, a devout Christian and staunch social conservative, as his running mate as key reasons to support the president.
"I'm not saying his performance as president can buy him grace — only Christ can do that," Perkins said.
He added: "But if we care about the future of our nation, we have to deal in the present."
Well, yeah, but everything the Devil has done so far is in the past--some if it is centuries old. If he would continue to do it, well, then the evangelicals would have to really think about it. Besides, at least then we'd see a change of background music from "You Can't Always Get What You Want" to "Sympathy For The Devil".So by this logic they’ll support the Devil so long as he delivers on campaign promises.
Thanks evangelicals for confirming your moral irrelevance.
That guy had a working brain?Thank you. In the crappy alias's defense, I'm not sure I like ten to fifteen year ago me very much
This is actually an issue that I have thought about a lot.Right, and that's something totally different than telling us that our government shouldn't do it.
It's even simpler than this. Bottom line is, if we are all doing what we are suppose to, there is no need for the government to have to do it. Of course there is also the reality that Jesus would be considered really liberal in today's political climate. It's always interesting to get conversation started around this topic with "conservative" friends. You can see the wheels turning in their heads trying to reconcile that.This is actually an issue that I have thought about a lot.
The Bible clearly tells us:
1. to love our neighbors, implying both the person next door and people in other countries.
2. help the poor, widows, and orphans
3. organizations to help with this, but is mostly through the church
4. instances of the government helping the poor (Joseph handing out food for Egypt
But the Bible is silent on democracy and our role in democracy. Probably because democracies did not exist back then.
My personal belief is we should be trying to love others and help the poor. And since we have the right to vote for our government, we should vote to have our government do these. And if I worked in government (say as an elected official), I would be promoting the government helping others. That is probably a far more liberal view than most in my church would believe.
What we need is one, just one, nationally recognized Christian authority to stand up and reject those who compromise their religion for political purposes. There are way too many "Christians" who just shrug and say "Hey, who am I to disagree with Tony Perkins and Franklin Graham, if they say Trump is good?Tony Perkins is a scumbag and doesn't speak for me.
Signed, a white evangelical who believes with all his heart that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
@Marvelous your sentiment is not wrong. There are micro and macro policy considerations but at the end of the day, on the ground in the face of a person in need, we should love and help without hesitation. The Good Samaritan wasn't a lesson in picking up hitchhikers and making them soup, and far too many of my tribe miss that point completely.
See here’s the thing. It is a religious movement. It has clearly defined theology and a hermeneutic that is at least consistent. There are tenants of Evangelical theology that are distinct from, say, Catholic theology or mainline liberal theology.The evangelical movement in the USA is not a religious movement, it's a political movement.
But he does speak for a lot of people.Tony Perkins is a scumbag and doesn't speak for me.