Ever wonder what is going through your opponents mind when they offere (1 Viewer)

[msudaisy26]

I personally think a lot of the bad trades are offered after someone comes to sites, such as the Shark Pool and they read the trade threads and see that someone got Doug Martin for pick 1.11 and Vick Ballard.

I think being drunk or stoned causes a lot as well.

I am just curious what everyone else thinks.

 

[Phenix]

I personally think a lot of the bad trades are offered after someone comes to sites, such as the Shark Pool and they read the trade threads and see that someone got Doug Martin for pick 1.11 and Vick Ballard.I think being drunk or stoned causes a lot as well.I am just curious what everyone else thinks.

Pretty elementary question, but yes, sometimes all that will happen. Its the life of the game.

People value all players differently, who you value as a stud may not be who others value as a stud.

I find it when people come to FBG, they actually end up over valuing players.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

In the first 2-3 years of a league you tend to see a lot of horrible trade offers, usually from the same guys. Once league members get to know each other and the knuckleheads are picked clean and/or disappear, things usually settle down and most guys figure out they need to make more reasonable offers or they're wasting their time. Still, there will always be some guys with a 'nothing to lose by offering Jacoby Jones and a 3rd for Calvin Johnson' mentality. What they do lose, and don't seem to understand, is their reputation for having at least a little bit of integrity and they just become an annoyance no one wants to deal with.

 

[mjr]

Everyone tries to push the envelope to see how little they can give up for the player(s) they want, meanwhile the other guy usually wants more than his player(s) are worth. Pretty typical. Bad trades tend to happen when people don't adjust their expectations and make counter-offers until a fair deal gets done. Who knows why someone would offer or accept a bad deal. Some deals certainly make you wonder if someone is smoking something. Then sometimes it makes perfect sense. I acquired AP in a dynasty last off-season and made what I thought was a pretty reasonable offer at the time to another GM for Toby Gerhart (think it was a mid 1st rookie pick). He wanted Chris Johnson AND one of my better WRs. I tried to make counter-offers, but he just kept shuffling around his high expectations with different names; my #1 WR AND a 1st rounder...and so on... I stopped entertaining any trade offers from this guy before even last season got underway, but even now he still offers Gerhart in hopes of getting my 1.11 and 1.12 rookie picks away from me. Anyway, I eventually come to find out that he actually worked as a used car salesman for several years. Suddenly it all made sense. lol. Problem is, there's always one or two guys in our league that eventually accept one of his persistently unbalanced trade offers, and it's usually the least experienced GMs at the bottom of the league. I guess if you keep trying and wait long enough, a sucker will eventually bite.

 

[RushHour]

I'm still amazed by some of the offers that get thrown around. It's hard to tell sometimes if people genuinely have no idea what they're doing, are trying to start negotiations from their lowest possible (insulting) offer, or whether they are just bored and trolling. I do think though that trading is sometimes more difficult in football because every position scores "points" and you can't trade away points to gain more strength in assists for example, like in basketball.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

 

[UKColt]

People overvaluing youth and undervaluing age is another annoying one.

One league I'm in I have Welker and have had some trade interest from a guy, but he keeps sending really low ball offers (Mendenhall and a 3rd was one of them) on the basis that he is 32 years old, despite the fact he finished in the top 25 overall last year. I asked about Lamar Miller as part of a deal, and his response that Miller was worth more than Welker because he was a young RB, so I'd have to give him something else.

 

[Crippler]

People overvaluing youth and undervaluing age is another annoying one.

One league I'm in I have Welker and have had some trade interest from a guy, but he keeps sending really low ball offers (Mendenhall and a 3rd was one of them) on the basis that he is 32 years old, despite the fact he finished in the top 25 overall last year. I asked about Lamar Miller as part of a deal, and his response that Miller was worth more than Welker because he was a young RB, so I'd have to give him something else.

And here is where the issue lies. I own Lamar in a league and would not even consider Wes Welker who is the #3 target in Denver and old for a guy like Lamar Miller. It is like the Trent Richardson deal I just say in the dynasty trade thread with him for Miller, 1.4 and 1st next year. In a years time I believe this guy will regret taking on Richardson. So sometimes about value today vs value tomorrow and forseeing the future. Miller could end up being a top 5 RB a year from now or he could end up being a bust. I believe top 5 and thus my value will be higher than yours. I always find it funny though that an owner asks about a player and they may be valued high by some but the owner devalues. He asked first. I have a league where an owner has asked about Cecil Shorts quite a few times but unwilling to pay what I want for him. But he is the one that wants him. A smart owner should realize this and not bite. PLus owning a player always increases his value most times. There is a reason, I own these guys in the end. One has to remember that. Your trying to part with Welker while he has any value. I think the Mendy offer was a fine starting point and some might think more than enough offer. Others might think it is terrible. That is why we play the game. If we all thought alike, it would get pretty boring.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Andy Dufresne, on 06 Jun 2013 - 09:39, said:They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

It's just different styles. Some people are trading for added market value -- where everything is on the table -- and some are trying to acquire specific players at a specific price.I'm the latter, and I almost always open with something very close to what I'm actually willing to do. So if you don't like my offer, so be it. And I'm pretty unlikely to counter one that you make.At the same time I'd guess that I lose at least 75% of my trades at the time they're made. So if the pieces line up right and we have different valuations on a player we'll usually get a deal done.

 

[Yitbos69]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

I will counter any offer that is in the ballpark...if its off the reservation then I will let them know...I cant even send a counter offer because we are on different planets......I want to see an offer where it looks like the other owner has given some thought to the value both teams will be getting.....if the trade makes no sense for me....I might counter with a like offer in return....

 

[Jeremy]

Everyone tries to push the envelope to see how little they can give up for the player(s) they want, meanwhile the other guy usually wants more than his player(s) are worth. Pretty typical. Bad trades tend to happen when people don't adjust their expectations and make counter-offers until a fair deal gets done. Who knows why someone would offer or accept a bad deal. Some deals certainly make you wonder if someone is smoking something. Then sometimes it makes perfect sense. I acquired AP in a dynasty last off-season and made what I thought was a pretty reasonable offer at the time to another GM for Toby Gerhart (think it was a mid 1st rookie pick). He wanted Chris Johnson AND one of my better WRs. I tried to make counter-offers, but he just kept shuffling around his high expectations with different names; my #1 WR AND a 1st rounder...and so on... I stopped entertaining any trade offers from this guy before even last season got underway, but even now he still offers Gerhart in hopes of getting my 1.11 and 1.12 rookie picks away from me. Anyway, I eventually come to find out that he actually worked as a used car salesman for several years. Suddenly it all made sense. lol. Problem is, there's always one or two guys in our league that eventually accept one of his persistently unbalanced trade offers, and it's usually the least experienced GMs at the bottom of the league. I guess if you keep trying and wait long enough, a sucker will eventually bite.

I hate when fantasy football success comes down to which owner is the best at identifying the idiots in the league and being the one to exploit them. I guess it's part of the game, but not the part I enjoy. I'd be a horrible used car salesman.

 

[Concept Coop]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

I'm torn on this. If you lead with a Ballard + 1st for my Martin - I'm not likely to counter. I know this is just my personality, but I don't like the car salesman "dance". Start with a valid offer, and I'm likely to counter or respond with an e-mail every time. But without a reasonable opening offer, I assume - right or wrong - that you're looking to fish, and I'm not taking the bait.

 

[Concept Coop]

I hate when fantasy football success comes down to which owner is the best at identifying the idiots in the league and being the one to exploit them. I guess it's part of the game, but not the part I enjoy. I'd be a horrible used car salesman.

Well said. That's why my favorite league is one consisting of active posters in this forum. I'm going to win or lose based on skill.

I had one league in which the worst team in the league always traded his draft picks for vets, despite the fact that he's miles from the playoffs. Every year it was a race to send offers as soon as the next year's picks were open for trade. He traded 2 future firsts for DeAngelo Williams last year. Every single year in the league to that point he finished in the bottom 2, and not once did he actually draft there, as he traded them away.

 

[Jeremy]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

I will counter any offer that is in the ballpark...if its off the reservation then I will let them know...I cant even send a counter offer because we are on different planets......I want to see an offer where it looks like the other owner has given some thought to the value both teams will be getting.....if the trade makes no sense for me....I might counter with a like offer in return....

+1. If they look like they're trying to bargain in good faith and it's a player I'm willing to part with, I'll engage them in conversation. If they send me an insulting offer, I usually just hit "reject" and call it a day.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

I'm torn on this. If you lead with a Ballard + 1st for my Martin - I'm not likely to counter. I know this is just my personality, but I don't like the car salesman "dance". Start with a valid offer, and I'm likely to counter or respond with an e-mail every time. But without a reasonable opening offer, I assume - right or wrong - that you're looking to fish, and I'm not taking the bait.

But, in this example, if is't non-ppr and that 1st is high enough I think that that trade would be perfectly fine. So in this case, it's better to simply say that Martin is pretty much untouchable unless you're getting a ridiculous deal (which also points to the difficulty in both trading for and away the top players).

Another thing people need consider is that with the proliferation of internet leagues, where the participants don't know each other, it's often difficult to know how to reach the other guy. Sometimes I'll submit a bogus trade offer, say a 1.11 for Arian Foster, with the text "Let's talk" simply to get someone's attention - to let them know of my interest in Foster and to see what it might take to get him.

More simply put, if you don't know each other and aren't readily available for conversation, there has to be a bit of back and forth.

 

[Ernol]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

I'm torn on this. If you lead with a Ballard + 1st for my Martin - I'm not likely to counter. I know this is just my personality, but I don't like the car salesman "dance". Start with a valid offer, and I'm likely to counter or respond with an e-mail every time. But without a reasonable opening offer, I assume - right or wrong - that you're looking to fish, and I'm not taking the bait.

But, in this example, if is't non-ppr and that 1st is high enough I think that that trade would be perfectly fine. So in this case, it's better to simply say that Martin is pretty much untouchable unless you're getting a ridiculous deal (which also points to the difficulty in both trading for and away the top players).

Another thing people need consider is that with the proliferation of internet leagues, where the participants don't know each other, it's often difficult to know how to reach the other guy. Sometimes I'll submit a bogus trade offer, say a 1.11 for Arian Foster, with the text "Let's talk" simply to get someone's attention - to let them know of my interest in Foster and to see what it might take to get him.

More simply put, if you don't know each other and aren't readily available for conversation, there has to be a bit of back and forth.

If you start with a bogus offer like that, even with a "lets talk", I am more inclined to reject and think in my head "lets not". You may be better off including nothing on your side if you are simply using the trade function as an email inquiry.

I prefer that the person interested in one of my players actually takes some time to formulate an offer they think is reasonable. If I find it reasonable, even if it does not work for me, I am more inclined to respond either with a counter or a discussion. I am not a fan of the "I am interested in so and so, what would it take" approach, which I consider to be somewhat lazy.

 

[Keepers]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

I will counter any offer that is in the ballpark...if its off the reservation then I will let them know...I cant even send a counter offer because we are on different planets......I want to see an offer where it looks like the other owner has given some thought to the value both teams will be getting.....if the trade makes no sense for me....I might counter with a like offer in return....

Great posting. Some people just throw offers out trying to get a guy on the cheap without even considering if that would fit with the other owner's team. While try to always be polite when decline, there is no point in starting up dialogue. Also, quantity of players doesn't make a trade seem more attractive.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I prefer that the person interested in one of my players actually takes some time to formulate an offer they think is reasonable. If I find it reasonable, even if it does not work for me, I am more inclined to respond either with a counter or a discussion. I am not a fan of the "I am interested in so and so, what would it take" approach, which I consider to be somewhat lazy.

But it's not. It's finding out if a) the player is even available for trade and b) if the owner is interested in players, picks, or a combination of both.

Just look at how you're viewing the situation. You start with "I prefer...". That's fine, but unless I know you and/or have dealt with you before, there's no way for me to know that.

People just need to roll with it a bit more than they do. We're not GM's sitting around the Red Phone and attending owners meetings at posh resorts.

 

[Mene]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

I will counter any offer that is in the ballpark...if its off the reservation then I will let them know...I cant even send a counter offer because we are on different planets......I want to see an offer where it looks like the other owner has given some thought to the value both teams will be getting.....if the trade makes no sense for me....I might counter with a like offer in return....

Great posting. Some people just throw offers out trying to get a guy on the cheap without even considering if that would fit with the other owner's team. While try to always be polite when decline, there is no point in starting up dialogue. Also, quantity of players doesn't make a trade seem more attractive.

There is my pet peeve. It happens more in baseball, but occasionally in football as well. I hate the offers where the core of his offer is something I don't need. Offering a package centered around a QB when I have a top 3 QB already shows me that you did not consider the trade from my perspective, and that just bothers me. I always try to see any trade offer I make from the perspective of the other owner, and how he would possibly use what I am offering. We may not value players the same, but it's not hard to see if an owner will even be able to make use of what I am offering.

 

[Rockchild]

I prefer that the person interested in one of my players actually takes some time to formulate an offer they think is reasonable. If I find it reasonable, even if it does not work for me, I am more inclined to respond either with a counter or a discussion. I am not a fan of the "I am interested in so and so, what would it take" approach, which I consider to be somewhat lazy.

But it's not. It's finding out if a) the player is even available for trade and b) if the owner is interested in players, picks, or a combination of both.

Usually, someone is coming after a stud and wonder if they are available. Well, no, I'm not looking to move him but if someone pays me enough I might but I don't know what that is until I see it. You want the player, you make the offer and if it is intriguing enough I might counter. I don't get offended or upset by any offer but don't feel the need to counter just because someone is interested in my player(s).

 

[ghostguy123]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

If the offer is bad enough, there really is no appropriate response that doesn't include basically telling you to piss off.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

If the offer is bad enough, there really is no appropriate response that doesn't include basically telling you to piss off.

Clearly there's a difference between a bad offer where you can tell it's not going to go anywhere and an offer that's just intended to get the ball rolling.

 

[ghostguy123]

I hate when fantasy football success comes down to which owner is the best at identifying the idiots in the league and being the one to exploit them. I guess it's part of the game, but not the part I enjoy. I'd be a horrible used car salesman.

Well said. That's why my favorite league is one consisting of active posters in this forum. I'm going to win or lose based on skill. I had one league in which the worst team in the league always traded his draft picks for vets, despite the fact that he's miles from the playoffs. Every year it was a race to send offers as soon as the next year's picks were open for trade. He traded 2 future firsts for DeAngelo Williams last year. Every single year in the league to that point he finished in the bottom 2, and not once did he actually draft there, as he traded them away.

I go after those weaker owners for their future picks as soon as I get the chance.It isn't necessarily cause I am trying to rob HIM to make my team better, it's because I don't want the other teams at the top to go get the same deal and make them even better. Because you know damn well they will.

 

[ghostguy123]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

If the offer is bad enough, there really is no appropriate response that doesn't include basically telling you to piss off.

Clearly there's a difference between a bad offer where you can tell it's not going to go anywhere and an offer that's just intended to get the ball rolling.

Right. Like pick 11 for Foster. Or Ballard and ANY 1st for Martin. I would just reject and either say nothing or something like "not remotely close".

And as Ernol said, don't be a lazy ###, make a real offer and use a little bit of time and effort instead of making the other person do all the work. You are the one with the interest, so act like it.

 

[Concept Coop]

I hate when fantasy football success comes down to which owner is the best at identifying the idiots in the league and being the one to exploit them. I guess it's part of the game, but not the part I enjoy. I'd be a horrible used car salesman.

Well said. That's why my favorite league is one consisting of active posters in this forum. I'm going to win or lose based on skill. I had one league in which the worst team in the league always traded his draft picks for vets, despite the fact that he's miles from the playoffs. Every year it was a race to send offers as soon as the next year's picks were open for trade. He traded 2 future firsts for DeAngelo Williams last year. Every single year in the league to that point he finished in the bottom 2, and not once did he actually draft there, as he traded them away.

I go after those weaker owners for their future picks as soon as I get the chance.It isn't necessarily cause I am trying to rob HIM to make my team better, it's because I don't want the other teams at the top to go get the same deal and make them even better. Because you know damn well they will.

Exactly. I would much rather nobody get the deals, and the guy be a good owner. But if he's going to help someone win a championship, I'd like it to be me.

 

[Shawn]

I personally think a lot of the bad trades are offered after someone comes to sites, such as the Shark Pool and they read the trade threads and see that someone got Doug Martin for pick 1.11 and Vick Ballard. I think being drunk or stoned causes a lot as well. I am just curious what everyone else thinks.

That is when I send out most ridiculous trades... right after smoking or drinking or both! Other owners send out drunk trades, and another league mate likes sending out low balls a lot, and I think he is hoping someone is ignorant and will bite.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

They're thinking - I'm not going to lead with my best offer but I want to signal my interest so I'll just put something out on the table and see if discussion is started.

My question is "What are people thinking when they respond to an initial offer with 'Well it'll take more than that', but then don't give a clue as to what the 'more' would be? Is it picks or players? Talk it out a little, will ya?"

If the offer is bad enough, there really is no appropriate response that doesn't include basically telling you to piss off.

Clearly there's a difference between a bad offer where you can tell it's not going to go anywhere and an offer that's just intended to get the ball rolling.

Right. Like pick 11 for Foster. Or Ballard and ANY 1st for Martin. I would just reject and either say nothing or something like "not remotely close".

And as Ernol said, don't be a lazy ###, make a real offer and use a little bit of time and effort instead of making the other person do all the work. You are the one with the interest, so act like it.

See...the first one is ridiculous. The second one is not.

 

[Ernol]

I prefer that the person interested in one of my players actually takes some time to formulate an offer they think is reasonable. If I find it reasonable, even if it does not work for me, I am more inclined to respond either with a counter or a discussion. I am not a fan of the "I am interested in so and so, what would it take" approach, which I consider to be somewhat lazy.

But it's not. It's finding out if a) the player is even available for trade and b) if the owner is interested in players, picks, or a combination of both.

Just look at how you're viewing the situation. You start with "I prefer...". That's fine, but unless I know you and/or have dealt with you before, there's no way for me to know that.

People just need to roll with it a bit more than they do. We're not GM's sitting around the Red Phone and attending owners meetings at posh resorts.

Problem is, you may never find out if you start off with an insulting offer, even with a "lets talk". Everyone is different, so it may work for some. But since youre the one looking to make a deal, why start off by potentially insulting a team that may have been willing to part with the player you want at a reasonable price?

In my opinion, you'll get better results and suffer less frustration over not knowing how an owner views or handles a situation if you do some legwork in advance and offer something reasonable.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Problem is, you may never find out if you start off with an insulting offer, even with a "lets talk". Everyone is different, so it may work for some. But since youre the one looking to make a deal, why start off by potentially insulting a team that may have been willing to part with the player you want at a reasonable price?

In my opinion, you'll get better results and suffer less frustration over not knowing how an owner views or handles a situation if you do some legwork in advance and offer something reasonable.

Because a guy that will let someone go at a reasonable price won't be insulted by initiating a conversation with "Let's talk".

I find out faster if a guy is a tool by lowballing and seeing his response.

 

[Concept Coop]

I find out faster if a guy is a tool by lowballing and seeing his response.

This is funny, in that two reasonable owners could come to think of each other as tools, based on this difference of opinion. You think I'm a tool for not responding, and I think you're a tool for fishing and - in my opinion - wasting my time.

For the record; if you wrote "lets talk", I'd be inclined to counter or respond. But a 1st for Foster offer with no note isn't getting a word from me.

 

[Ernol]

Andy Dufresne, on 06 Jun 2013 - 10:06, said:

Ernol, on 06 Jun 2013 - 10:04, saidroblem is, you may never find out if you start off with an insulting offer, even with a "lets talk". Everyone is different, so it may work for some. But since youre the one looking to make a deal, why start off by potentially insulting a team that may have been willing to part with the player you want at a reasonable price?In my opinion, you'll get better results and suffer less frustration over not knowing how an owner views or handles a situation if you do some legwork in advance and offer something reasonable.

Because a guy that will let someone go at a reasonable price won't be insulted by initiating a conversation with "Let's talk".I find out faster if a guy is a tool by lowballing and seeing his response.

So, you insult the other owner and he's the tool? Interesting.ETA: My likely response would probably be a "Appreciate the inquiry, but our values are not close" and end it there. Its likely a waste of time to get any deeper with someone offering the 1.11 for Foster (even where I may already be in discussions with others on a potential Foster trade). I can see the lowball approach actually insulting others. Either way, you still don't know where they value a player or whether they were willing to part with him and you havent gotten anywhere other than to potentially alienate another league owner. I'd rather put my best foot forward when I am looking to make a deal, especially if I don't know the other guy.

 

[ghostguy123]

Problem is, you may never find out if you start off with an insulting offer, even with a "lets talk". Everyone is different, so it may work for some. But since youre the one looking to make a deal, why start off by potentially insulting a team that may have been willing to part with the player you want at a reasonable price? In my opinion, you'll get better results and suffer less frustration over not knowing how an owner views or handles a situation if you do some legwork in advance and offer something reasonable.

Because a guy that will let someone go at a reasonable price won't be insulted by initiating a conversation with "Let's talk". I find out faster if a guy is a tool by lowballing and seeing his response.

So, you insult the other owner and he's the tool? Interesting.

Dufresne seems like the kind of guy that people would rather give MORE to someone else while avoiding him entirely.

Which is fine by me, I am never upset when other owners are jerks and my chances of getting deals I like go up.

Pretty funny tactic though. You act like a tool to see if the other guy is a tool. Logic 101 at it's finest.

 

[ghostguy123]

How bout the "good cop bad cop" routine when you have a partner, haha. My good ol partner (you know who you are) occasionally insults people, one time the guy said he was never dealing with our team again.

Going with a very much anti-Dufresne approach, I proceeded to butter him up a bit in order to get future trade talks back on track.

I suppose I coulda just kept sending him offers like maclin for Dez, but I would rather not be a tool.

 

[ghostguy123]

And no, Ballard and a 1st is NOT a remotely reasonable offer at all for Martin.

Ballard and pick 1 this year is horrible. At least that offer wouldn't have the guy swearing you off forever, but if that is your measuring stick of what make an offer ok or not, whether or not the guy will ever speak to you again , you really got revamp the way you approach things.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Pretty funny tactic though. You act like a tool to see if the other guy is a tool. Logic 101 at it's finest.

Yeah, that's not what I said.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

And no, Ballard and a 1st is NOT a remotely reasonable offer at all for Martin.

Ballard and pick 1 this year is horrible. At least that offer wouldn't have the guy swearing you off forever, but if that is your measuring stick of what make an offer ok or not, whether or not the guy will ever speak to you again , you really got revamp the way you approach things.

Nice mancrush you've got there on Martin.

FWIW - I doubt I'd trade Martin for Ballard/1st either. But to say it's "not even close" just means you have no intention of trading him at all. And that's fine too.

Talking about trades in terms of top shelf guys isn't the most helpful though as those guys rarely get moved for the reasons we're talking about. They're too expensive for the team that doesn't have him (you'd have to move too many players at too many positions to make it worthwhile) and they only take up one roster spot on the team that has them so a bulk return isn't helpful.

Also, talking about them in a vacuum doesn't help. In a non-ppr league, the aforementioned Ballard/1st for Martin makes more sense if the 2nd spot on the Martin roster is populated by someone like Shonn Greene or Ryan Williams. From a whole roster standpoint, it's reasonable to think that week in/week out you'd get more out of Ballard/Ball (or Bell, Lacy, or Bernard) than Martin/Green, for example.

All I'm saying is that with all the differing styles of negotiation and values placed on players, it's not right to be "insulted" by any offer given by someone else.

 

[ghostguy123]

Pretty funny tactic though. You act like a tool to see if the other guy is a tool. Logic 101 at it's finest.

Yeah, that's not what I said.

I didn't say that's what you said............ it's what you do.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Pretty funny tactic though. You act like a tool to see if the other guy is a tool. Logic 101 at it's finest.

Yeah, that's not what I said.

I didn't say that's what you said............ it's what you do.

That's not what I said I do. I said that if I lowball a guy and he pitches a fit like you seem to say you do if someone doesn't get right to it then I know there's no point in negotiating at all.

In fairness, I can see where you could interpret what I wrote as being that way though. What I meant was that you can find out pretty quickly if you have basis for conversation based on how they respond to an initial offer.

I shouldn't have used the word "tool". All I meant was "abrupt".

 

[ghostguy123]

All I'm saying is that with all the differing styles of negotiation and values placed on players, it's not right to be "insulted" by any offer given by someone else.

And you would be very wrong. Whether YOU think it's right or not couldn't be more irrelevant.

If you offer me some jack crap offer, to me it means you think I am an idiot. You are basically CALLING me an idiot offering me something stupid.

I will personally never swear off a trade parter. Why would I EVER turn down a trade I like from ANYONE no matter what they have ever done in the past??

If you want to send an email asking if I would like to discuss something fine, but if I reply with something to the effect of "I dont know, send me offers", then it's either over right there, or you can send me offers. If you have a problem with that, that's on you then,

 

[ghostguy123]

Pretty funny tactic though. You act like a tool to see if the other guy is a tool. Logic 101 at it's finest.

Yeah, that's not what I said.

I didn't say that's what you said............ it's what you do.

That's not what I said I do. I said that if I lowball a guy and he pitches a fit like you seem to say you do if someone doesn't get right to it then I know there's no point in negotiating at all.

Right, so you act the part of a tool in order to get someone to react. Exactly.

What you seem to be saying is that you are targeting the idiots of the league and not ever willing to make an equal value deal.

And no, I don't pitch a fit, I just say something like "sorry not close". So you are saying if you send a stupid offer and someone says that, you move on and dont ever deal with them??? Interesting. So you are "that guy". What an honor, you must be proud.

What you really mean by "no point in negotiating" is "I won't rip this guy off horribly bad".

 

[Andy Dufresne]

You seem like a real blast to be in a league with. Let's forget it, okay?

Edit: Oh, and sorry about your reading comprehension problem.

 

[ghostguy123]

You seem like a real blast to be in a league with. Let's forget it, okay?

Edit: Oh, and sorry about your reading comprehension problem.

lol. Ur the idiot annoying 11 other owners with your stupid offers. Nothing better than seeing you have a trade proposal and thinking "oh yeah cool, an offer", only to look at it and see that it is Ballard for Trent Richardson.

I USED to send stupid offers like that, but after realizing that I was annoying people and wasting their time, I stopped. Live and learn. Someday you will learn.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

You seem like a real blast to be in a league with. Let's forget it, okay?

Edit: Oh, and sorry about your reading comprehension problem.

lol. Ur the idiot annoying 11 other owners with your stupid offers. Nothing better than seeing you have a trade proposal and thinking "oh yeah cool, an offer", only to look at it and see that it is Ballard for Trent Richardson.

I USED to send stupid offers like that, but after realizing that I was annoying people and wasting their time, I stopped. Live and learn. Someday you will learn.

Okay, Toughguy123,

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I find out faster if a guy is a tool by lowballing and seeing his response.

This is funny, in that two reasonable owners could come to think of each other as tools, based on this difference of opinion. You think I'm a tool for not responding, and I think you're a tool for fishing and - in my opinion - wasting my time.

For the record; if you wrote "lets talk", I'd be inclined to counter or respond. But a 1st for Foster offer with no note isn't getting a word from me.

I regret using the word "tool".

I agree with the bolded. And what I mean by "lowballing" isn't offering something stupid. I just mean I'm not going to lead with my best because I assume there's going to be some back and forth.

Clearly, there are other people that don't like that. But there's no way to determine who's style is whose unless you've engaged once or twice.

 

[mlball77]

Instead of taking offense when I receive a lousy offer, I ususally laugh it off (or counter, but sometimes that is tough if the starting point is so far off). In general, I know that the offering team likes the player or two they just tried to acquire and they are trying to improve their team... are those horrible things?? Not in my view... even if they were combined to form a poor offer that crossed my desk. I'd still rather have a poor offer (as a starting point, maybe) then none at all, as long as I'm not being bombarded by horrible offers.

As far as I can tell, most people really don't think through their trade offers to thoroughly think about how an offer might really impact your squad. They analyze the impact on their team and give it only a cursory view when thinking about your team. Thus, one-sided offers and head-scratchers are common... and not something to get too worked up about, imho. Again, if you are getting bombarded by horrible offers (from the same owner or two), then that is a different story.

 

[Ernol]

Pretty funny tactic though. You act like a tool to see if the other guy is a tool. Logic 101 at it's finest.

Yeah, that's not what I said.

I didn't say that's what you said............ it's what you do.

That's not what I said I do. I said that if I lowball a guy and he pitches a fit like you seem to say you do if someone doesn't get right to it then I know there's no point in negotiating at all.

In fairness, I can see where you could interpret what I wrote as being that way though. What I meant was that you can find out pretty quickly if you have basis for conversation based on how they respond to an initial offer.

I shouldn't have used the word "tool". All I meant was "abrupt".

Ok, I can see this and in most cases you may be right. Although, I try to deal with the hissy fitters as well because sometimes it does not take much to set one off and in reality (not counting the lowball offer), we may actually be pretty close if we can just engage in a discussion. In that case, your test could potentially weed out someone prematurely.

 

[Concept Coop]

I regret using the word "tool".

I agree with the bolded. And what I mean by "lowballing" isn't offering something stupid. I just mean I'm not going to lead with my best because I assume there's going to be some back and forth.

Clearly, there are other people that don't like that. But there's no way to determine who's style is whose unless you've engaged once or twice.

I'd agree.

I've been beat to death with fishing attempts and assume a poor offer is just that. I've learned, based on the owners I have played with, that a 1.11 for Foster offer isn't going anywhere. Not only that, but if you want Foster, you do some of the work - send me a good offer. If you want to know what I think he's worth, I'd respond to an IM or e-mail asking me that. The lowballs (not that I expect your best offer up front) are a waste of time, in my opinion.

The most annoying is when I do respond to a low ball with a more reasonable offer, only to get another lowball. That cuts talks right there. If I counter with 1.05 + Lynch for Foster, and you respond with 1.11 + 2.04 for Foster - I'm done working on a deal.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I regret using the word "tool".

I agree with the bolded. And what I mean by "lowballing" isn't offering something stupid. I just mean I'm not going to lead with my best because I assume there's going to be some back and forth.

Clearly, there are other people that don't like that. But there's no way to determine who's style is whose unless you've engaged once or twice.

I'd agree.

I've been beat to death with fishing attempts and assume a poor offer is just that. I've learned, based on the owners I have played with, that a 1.11 for Foster offer isn't going anywhere. Not only that, but if you want Foster, you do some of the work - send me a good offer. If you want to know what I think he's worth, I'd respond to an IM or e-mail asking me that. The lowballs (not that I expect your best offer up front) are a waste of time, in my opinion.

The most annoying is when I do respond to a low ball with a more reasonable offer, only to get another lowball. That cuts talks right there. If I counter with 1.05 + Lynch for Foster, and you respond with 1.11 + 2.04 for Foster - I'm done working on a deal.

I agree with all that. One of the most key phrases is the bold.

 

[schnocky]

I think it always starts with the thought "I'd like to target this player." Next progression is to identify the least you believe you can offer to have a chance at having the trade go through. Assuming you don't insult the other owner and there is some interest to trade the player, the counter offers begin. If the other owner feels insulted or you get an outright notice that they don't want to trade the player, you move on. Also, what may be a "low ball offer" in one league may be perfectly acceptable in another league. It's all based on how the owners value their players. In general, I think some owners perception is that a player is worth 2x their normal value on THEIR roster than they are on any other roster (based on trade offers I've seen for the same player).

 

[Warhogs]

We just had a small training yesterday on negotiating a win/win.

A few key points that could be applied in trading.

-Know what you are willing to take and be prepared to walk away if you can not get that

-Determine your must have, nice to have, I can't believe I got this levels

-Ask for more than your must have so you have movement room

-Never accept the first offer or first counter (Other owner may feel he asked for too little)

These are just a few points and some I'm not sure really apply to this topic.

Relevant points to me

-People evaluate players differently

-Too many times trades do not happen because the two teams evaluate players too differently or the one team focuses too much on what he wants and not what the other owner needs

-Too many owners are afraid to make a bad trade and will only trade if they are clearly getting a big win

If I am going to propose a trade I usually first determine what it is that I need to help improve my team by position. I then look at who has a player I need and also what his needs might be. I then see if I have something I can offer that is reasonable for what I am trying to acquire. I generally will propose something a little below what I am willing to pay. I'll add that most of the time when I have had a big win in a trade the other team made me the offer and I accepted as opposed to me offering a really lowball trade.