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Expanding the size of your keeper league (1 Viewer)

AhrnCityPahnder

Yinz-o-riffic
Currently in an 8 team, keep 5 league. It's start 2QB.

I was mulling over the idea of expanding this league. How do you do this when people have keepers? How do you spread the wealth to the new owners, why not screwing the current owners?

 
IMO The only way to be truely fair to the new owners is to start over with a redraft. It's just not the same as replaceing existing teams with a different owner.

If absolutley necessary you can come up with some exanson plan like pros use. But even the pros new teams don;t stand a chance first couple years it seems! I would never take an expanson team in any existing league unless it was redrafted from scrach!

 
For this year reduce the number of keepers to four and let the 8 current owners declare their top 4. Then let the two new owners (assuming you are going to a 10 team league) take turns picking one player from each of the 8 teams' remaining roster members in an "expansion draft". Only one player may be taken from each of the 8 current teams.

This allows each current team to keep their top 4 players but still gives the new owners a decent nucleus to build upon in the regular draft.

You don't want the new owners to start too far behind or they will lose interest fast.

 
IMO The only way to be truely fair to the new owners is to start over with a redraft.  It's just not the same as replaceing existing teams with a different owner. 

If absolutley necessary you can come up with some exanson plan like pros use.  But even the pros new teams don;t stand a chance first couple years it seems!  I would never take an expanson team in any existing league unless it was redrafted from scrach!
It's hard to balance the competing interests. But if I had spent a few years building up my keeper roster, I would quit if the league started from scratch. You can design a fair expansion draft. If the 2 new owners are any good, they'll pick off some very nice players from the current rosters. Ahrn, consider posting the rosters of the 8 current teams and who you think they will declare as their top 4 and I'll build two pretty nice expansion lists of four players each from their remaining players.

I would enjoy the challenge of entering a new league on this basis to build a winning franchise.

 
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For this year reduce the number of keepers to four and let the 8 current owners declare their top 4. Then let the two new owners (assuming you are going to a 10 team league) take turns picking one player from each of the 8 teams' remaining roster members in an "expansion draft". Only one player may be taken from each of the 8 current teams.

This allows each current team to keep their top 4 players but still gives the new owners a decent nucleus to build upon in the regular draft.

You don't want the new owners to start too far behind or they will lose interest fast.
:goodposting: This does seem like the fairest way to go.

Another wrinkle you can add - First team to pick in the "expansion" draft selects 2nd overall in the next draft, whereas the other owner picks first.

Picks 3 - 10 go in order of whomever lost their player first in expansion.

All in all, I like the "keep 4" option. Nice work.

 
For this year reduce the number of keepers to four and let the 8 current owners declare their top 4.  Then let the two new owners (assuming you are going to a 10 team league) take turns picking one player from each of the 8 teams' remaining roster members in an "expansion draft".  Only one player may be taken from each of the 8 current teams.

This allows each current team to keep their top 4 players but still gives the new owners a decent nucleus to build upon in the regular draft.

You don't want the new owners to start too far behind or they will lose interest fast.
:goodposting: This does seem like the fairest way to go.

Another wrinkle you can add - First team to pick in the "expansion" draft selects 2nd overall in the next draft, whereas the other owner picks first.

Picks 3 - 10 go in order of whomever lost their player first in expansion.

All in all, I like the "keep 4" option. Nice work.
Yeah, I would do something like this too. As an alternative, maybe you could keep 3 but each time a team lost a player, allow that team to protect another player. Once a team lost two players, he would then have his 5 keepers.In theory, rather than keep your top 5, you would keep your top 3 and then 5th and 7th best players. The two expansion teams would then get slightly better players and your 5 keepers are maintained for the existing teams. Some teams wouldn't lose a second player (or possibly even one) but could protect up to 5 total after the expansion teams have their 5 each.

 
My keep 8 league expanded from 8 to 10 teams prior to the 2003 season. We did a very similar scenario to this in that existing teams were able to protect a small nucleus and the new owners were allowed to draft up to 8 players in March.

They announced their keeper list with everyone else on July 31st and had the first two picks in each round of our August draft with the other 8 teams picking based on the previous year's results.

The new owners got players such as Tiki Barber, Staley, Warner, Favre, Barlow, Jimmy Smith and D. Mason. Culpepper was not protected and not selected by either new team and there were others like that too, so it is possible for teams to be somewhat competitive in the first year or two if they draft well and get a little bit of luck here and there.

 
For this year reduce the number of keepers to four and let the 8 current owners declare their top 4.  Then let the two new owners (assuming you are going to a 10 team league) take turns picking one player from each of the 8 teams' remaining roster members in an "expansion draft".  Only one player may be taken from each of the 8 current teams.

This allows each current team to keep their top 4 players but still gives the new owners a decent nucleus to build upon in the regular draft.

You don't want the new owners to start too far behind or they will lose interest fast.
:goodposting: This does seem like the fairest way to go.

Another wrinkle you can add - First team to pick in the "expansion" draft selects 2nd overall in the next draft, whereas the other owner picks first.

Picks 3 - 10 go in order of whomever lost their player first in expansion.

All in all, I like the "keep 4" option. Nice work.
The only downside to this idea is that if the team that won the league two years in a row is the first team to lose a player, they get rewarded with the third pick overall. They need to stay down at the bottom of the order to keep some balance.
 
I've been wrestling with a similar challenge for possible expansion of a 12 team Dynasty League to 15 teams. I'll likely go along the same lines of reducing the number of protected players each existing team may keep. I'll also allow the expansion teams to play for free the first year. It won't be any less of a payout to the pool winner in year 1 of expansion as it will mirror all the previous years. We currently keep 24 players from a 35 man roster. I'm toying with reducing the keeper amount to 12 players and limiting the total that can be selected from each team.

Has anybody else done an expansion to a Dynasty League with similar roster size? TIA for any feedback.

 
You can't start over. It hurts teams that drafted young players to hold on to.

We went from 8 to 10 teams this year and already had our SUPPLEMENTARY DRAFT. We held 5 guys and then had the other 2 guys draft back and forth between players left on our rosters. We also made sure that we separated both teams in different divisions to keep it fair.

After the 8 teams cut down to 4 or 5 players and the other two teams select their players, I would bet that it would be a little tough to pick out the two teams that did the supplement draft.

Here is my league after the supplement draft. Although their may be weaker teams then others on paper, I would bet that it would be tough to pick the 2 clear cut supplemental teams!

(I'll change my team name so you have ten teams to choose from)

Winklehawks

T. Jones

Roy Williams

R. Droughns

J. Galloway

C. Benson

Bandits

D McNabb

S. Jackson

T. Barber

P Burress

C Chambers

Rage

E. Manning

R. Brown

L Tomlinson

W. McGahee

D. Stallworth

OutCast

C. Palmer

W. Parker

C. Dillon

W. Dunn

A. Gates

LeSnapper

S Alexander

L Johnson

D Rhodes

D McAllister

C Johnson

Infernos

R.Johnson.

L.Jordan.

M.Harrison.

T.Holt.

R.Wayne

The Toads

J Lewis

T Owens

A Bolden

D Jackson

A Johnson

Deathrow

E James

J Jones

R Moss

S Smith

L Evans

Scorpions

P Manning

D. Davis

B Westbrook

C. Williams

H Ward

Mommy's Angels

C.Portis

K.Jones

d.Foster

L.Fitzgerald

S.Moss

 
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I think there are some great ideas in here for expanding your keeper league. I also run a keeper league that I've thought of expanding the past two years. This year we are actually doing it. Our league was a keep 4 league and will be again after this year, but to make things fair we are making it a keep 5 league this year.(that way everyone will have 1 player stolen from their roster). Since we are currently a 10 team league and will be a 12 team league.

We have agreed that each team can protect 3 of their players and the other two teams will take turns picking from guys left on the rosters(anyone on FA list is unavailable in this draft). Once a team has a player taken from them, the rest of their players are off limits. They then can choose two more of their team's players to complete their keeper list.

As far as determining the rest of the draft, the two new teams will pick first and second in each round(starting with the guy who picked keepers second and alternating each round). Then the rest of the guys will have a serpentine draft like normal, just those two get the first picks in each round.

It won't be perfect, but hopefully it will work out enough to make them competitive.

 
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As far as determining the rest of the draft, the two new teams will pick first and second in each round(starting with the guy who picked keepers second and alternating each round). Then the rest of the guys will have a serpentine draft like normal, just those two get the first picks in each round.

It won't be perfect, but hopefully it will work out enough to make them competitive.
WE handle the draft picks differently. We had a weighted ping-pong system. We didnt think it was fair to have them pick 1st and 2nd in each round. Plus after we cutdown to 5 and the two teams picked their 5,we felt that we were all on the same playing field. This is the ping-pong system we used.2 balls for 1st and 10th pick

4 balls for 2nd and 9th pick

6 balls for 3rd and 8th pick

8 balls for 4th and 7th pick

10 balls for 5th and 6th pick

They got 3rd and 6th picks. Then we did a regular serpentine draft.

 
Not following the ping-pong system.  Can you explain in more detail?   Thanks.
2 balls for 1st pick4 balls for 2nd pick

6 balls for 3rd pick

8 balls for 4th pick

10 balls for 5th pick

10 balls for 6th pick

8 balls for 7th pick

6 balls for 8th pick

4 balls for 9th pick

2 balls for 10th pick

We put two balls in the bucket with #1s on it

four balls with #2s on it

six with #3s on it and so on.

We weigthed it so that it was more likely to get in the middle then it would be to get 1st or 10th pick. Making it just as fair to get the 1st as it was for the 10th.

(We actually used bottle caps instead of ping-pongs....So start drinking and save those caps.) :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned:

 
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For this year reduce the number of keepers to four and let the 8 current owners declare their top 4. Then let the two new owners (assuming you are going to a 10 team league) take turns picking one player from each of the 8 teams' remaining roster members in an "expansion draft". Only one player may be taken from each of the 8 current teams.

This allows each current team to keep their top 4 players but still gives the new owners a decent nucleus to build upon in the regular draft.

You don't want the new owners to start too far behind or they will lose interest fast.
:goodposting: This does seem like the fairest way to go.

Another wrinkle you can add - First team to pick in the "expansion" draft selects 2nd overall in the next draft, whereas the other owner picks first.

Picks 3 - 10 go in order of whomever lost their player first in expansion.

All in all, I like the "keep 4" option. Nice work.
I'm not sure I understand the point in doing this versus drafting in reverse order of record. My guess is that the best teams are going to have the best "fifth best" player, meaning that their picks would be higher than they would have been otherwise.
 
For this year reduce the number of keepers to four and let the 8 current owners declare their top 4. Then let the two new owners (assuming you are going to a 10 team league) take turns picking one player from each of the 8 teams' remaining roster members in an "expansion draft". Only one player may be taken from each of the 8 current teams.

This allows each current team to keep their top 4 players but still gives the new owners a decent nucleus to build upon in the regular draft.

You don't want the new owners to start too far behind or they will lose interest fast.
:goodposting: This does seem like the fairest way to go.

Another wrinkle you can add - First team to pick in the "expansion" draft selects 2nd overall in the next draft, whereas the other owner picks first.

Picks 3 - 10 go in order of whomever lost their player first in expansion.

All in all, I like the "keep 4" option. Nice work.
I'm not sure I understand the point in doing this versus drafting in reverse order of record. My guess is that the best teams are going to have the best "fifth best" player, meaning that their picks would be higher than they would have been otherwise.
The logic would be that if you're hurting a team that kept a strong nucleus of 5 players, it wasn't his fault that the 2 new owners coveted his team more. He could lose LT2 or LJ for that matter, which could really tick off that owner after working on his team to get up that high. To compensate for the loss of a really good player, you throw him the bone of picking 3rd rather than where he would really wind up.You can temper this suggestion by only doing this for 1 or 2 rounds and then swapping back to order of finish for the rest of the rounds.

Lots to consider, but the Protect 4 is the best method IMO - the rest is just implementation.

Nice thread.

 
I guess the two expansion teams are the Winklehawks and either the Toads or Outcast. Probably the Toads.

Did I win the prize?

You can't start over. It hurts teams that drafted young players to hold on to.

We went from 8 to 10 teams this year and already had our SUPPLEMENTARY DRAFT. We held 5 guys and then had the other 2 guys draft back and forth between players left on our rosters. We also made sure that we separated both teams in different divisions to keep it fair.

After the 8 teams cut down to 4 or 5 players and the other two teams select their players, I would bet that it would be a little tough to pick out the two teams that did the supplement draft.

Here is my league after the supplement draft. Although their may be weaker teams then others on paper, I would bet that it would be tough to pick the 2 clear cut supplemental teams!

(I'll change my team name so you have ten teams to choose from)

Winklehawks

T. Jones

Roy Williams

R. Droughns

J. Galloway

C. Benson

Bandits

D McNabb

S. Jackson

T. Barber

P Burress

C Chambers

Rage

E. Manning

R. Brown

L Tomlinson

W. McGahee

D. Stallworth

OutCast

C. Palmer

W. Parker

C. Dillon

W. Dunn

A. Gates

LeSnapper

S Alexander

L Johnson

D Rhodes

D McAllister

C Johnson

Infernos

R.Johnson.

L.Jordan.

M.Harrison.

T.Holt.

R.Wayne

The Toads

J Lewis

T Owens

A Bolden

D Jackson

A Johnson

Deathrow

E James

J Jones

R Moss

S Smith

L Evans

Scorpions

P Manning

D. Davis

B Westbrook

C. Williams

H Ward

Mommy's Angels

C.Portis

K.Jones

d.Foster

L.Fitzgerald

S.Moss
 
Our league (4 player keeper) just expanded from nine to ten teams. We basically let everyone know a year in advance that this was going to happen so that everyone had more then enough time to prepare.

After everyone franchises their four players this August, the incoming owner has one week to fill his four keeper slots with any remaining players. Yes these are not elite guys, but he can build a solid base from what is left. At that point all ten owners will have their four "franchised" players and the draft/season will begin.

The main points that worked for us.

1. Don't spring this on your league without PLENTY of advanced timing. If you've already started your 2006 preseason trading, franchising, etc., you should probably look to expand after this year, but have everything lineup now.

2. Make sure the new owner(s) know that they are building their franchises from scratch and may struggle through atleast the first year. No different from any other new NFL franchise.

Hope everything works out for your league.

 
I don't think it's neccessary to blow everything up when expanding.

I was an expansion team that joined an existing league (10 to 12 teams), 2 keepers, and we did an expansion draft before the season.

I drafted Lamont Jordan, and Steve Smith.

 
Our league (4 player keeper) just expanded from nine to ten teams.  We basically let everyone know a year in advance that this was going to happen so that everyone had more then enough time to prepare. 

After everyone franchises their four players this August, the incoming owner has one week to fill his four keeper slots with any remaining players.  Yes these are not elite guys, but he can build a solid base from what is left.  At that point all ten owners will have their four "franchised" players and the draft/season will begin.

The main points that worked for us.

1.  Don't spring this on your league without PLENTY of advanced timing.  If you've already started your 2006 preseason trading, franchising, etc., you should probably look to expand after this year, but have everything lineup now.

2.  Make sure the new owner(s) know that they are building their franchises from scratch and may struggle through atleast the first year.  No different from any other new NFL franchise.

Hope everything works out for your league.
2 excellent points. We knew a year in advance with our expansion and we also gave the 2 upcoming owners access to our league site so that they were informed what was going on during the season.
 
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Allow each team to pick 3 players that are cannot be touched. The teams coming in, assuming it is 2 more thus making it a 10 team league, are able to pick 4 players from the league. 8 players will be picked from 8 different teams because once a player is picked from one team then no other players can be picked from that team. After the expansion teams pick... everyone can keep 4 players or 5 if the teams so choose but the new teams get the first picks in the draft.

 
You can't start over. It hurts teams that drafted young players to hold on to.

We went from 8 to 10 teams this year and already had our SUPPLEMENTARY DRAFT. We held 5 guys and then had the other 2 guys draft back and forth between players left on our rosters. We also made sure that we separated both teams in different divisions to keep it fair.

After the 8 teams cut down to 4 or 5 players and the other two teams select their players, I would bet that it would be a little tough to pick out the two teams that did the supplement draft.

Here is my league after the supplement draft. Although their may be weaker teams then others on paper, I would bet that it would be tough to pick the 2 clear cut supplemental teams!

(I'll change my team name so you have ten teams to choose from)

Winklehawks

T. Jones

Roy Williams

R. Droughns

J. Galloway

C. Benson

Bandits

D McNabb

S. Jackson

T. Barber

P Burress

C Chambers

Rage

E. Manning

R. Brown

L Tomlinson

W. McGahee

D. Stallworth

OutCast

C. Palmer

W. Parker

C. Dillon

W. Dunn

A. Gates

LeSnapper

S Alexander

L Johnson

D Rhodes

D McAllister

C Johnson

Infernos

R.Johnson.

L.Jordan.

M.Harrison.

T.Holt.

R.Wayne

The Toads

J Lewis

T Owens

A Bolden

D Jackson

A Johnson

Deathrow

E James

J Jones

R Moss

S Smith

L Evans

Scorpions

P Manning

D. Davis

B Westbrook

C. Williams

H Ward

Mommy's Angels

C.Portis

K.Jones

d.Foster

L.Fitzgerald

S.Moss
Winklehawks and Toads are the expansion teams.
 
I was an expansion team many years ago 12 teams to 14 teams.

Existing teams anounced their keepers(2)

The other team and I had a 2 round draft of the players left over.

Then we drafted in the 13 and 14 spot of the draft. Not very fair the first year, but I won the league in about year 4 and have won it again in about year 7.

 
We expanded from 10 to 12 last year and held an expansion draft similar to the NFL...existing teams could "protect" a certain number of players...then the new teams had picks...those teams that lost players could protect additional players, etc...then there was a supplemental draft for team that lost players and one last pick for the expansion teams...essentially we analyzed and planned it such that the expansion teams were picking players as if they had been in the initial draft and were picking 11 and 12 respectively...

Worked out great...

 
League expanded from 12 to 16 teams. It was a three keeper league at that point, since exapnaded to five.

The expansion teams got no extra picks, but drew numbers for the first four draft slots. The first couple years were tough but it's that way for real expansion teams as well. It encourges only dedicated owners who know that they'll have to stick it out a couple years before they can be successful.

 
I guess pointing out that this situation is way easier to handle for auction leagues would go unappreciated in this thread, huh? :shrug:

 

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