Explosions at Boston Marathon (1 Viewer)

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

i think the conversation has moved past the cause. BFS disagrees with my thoughts that we need to do more to protect the citizens.

My post are all right here, where did I say that?

My suggestion of portable surveillance was refuted because of cost, loss of civil liberties, a lack of ineffectiveness, and belief that it just wouldn't work.

Exactly what other criteria is relevant? If you want to advocate a policy choice then don't be upset when "perhaps" there may be a benefit loses any rational cost benefit analysis.

BFS, believes that things are hunky dory and we should take a wait and see attitude.

Already refuted. There are just bigger threats than terrorism. The only real threat of terrorism is our reaction to it. Losing all perspective and being willing to attack the problem at any cost is the real threat.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'd bet we'll see an increase of surveillance at future Boston marathons regardless of effectiveness in preventing another attack. I think technology is at the point where they can faceID a large number of people, the challenge comes down to creating a priority list of possible attackers based on intelligence that has been gathered.

I bet you are correct. The real question is what if the technology had identified the older brother shortly in that 12 minute window. Then what? How do we get from that hypothetical event to "proactively" stopping the bombs from being set off?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I think the disconnect is that Bottomfeeder is talking about terrorism in the sense that the acts are perpetrated for religious reasons.

You are talking about terrorism in the sense that it can be perpetrated for a political or, ideological goal (as well as for religious reasons).

There have been more mass (or spree) killings IMO due to copy cats and the proliferation of the events by the main stream and social media outlets.

Actually this wrong. Without doing any real research this time I'd argue that terrorist attacks have declined because liberals have largely stopped setting off bombs (or than maybe water balloons filled with paint) in protest and instead have gotten naked. Violent liberal protests seem to be rioting when the protest is broken up and not actual terrorist plots. In this case I'll just

And, again school violence is way down.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

I'd bet we'll see an increase of surveillance at future Boston marathons regardless of effectiveness in preventing another attack. I think technology is at the point where they can faceID a large number of people, the challenge comes down to creating a priority list of possible attackers based on intelligence that has been gathered.

I bet you are correct. The real question is what if the technology had identified the older brother shortly in that 12 minute window. Then what? How do we get from that hypothetical event to "proactively" stopping the bombs from being set off?

communication, and stop and frisk, if they had bomb sniffing dogs in the area they certainly had enough security to respond to a potential threat.

However, then you get into the gray area that nyc has gotten into trouble with stopping and frisking people via racial profiling in neighborhoods that were high in crime.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

I think the disconnect is that Bottomfeeder is talking about terrorism in the sense that the acts are perpetrated for religious reasons.

You are talking about terrorism in the sense that it can be perpetrated for a political or, ideological goal (as well as for religious reasons).

There have been more mass (or spree) killings IMO due to copy cats and the proliferation of the events by the main stream and social media outlets.

Actually this wrong. Without doing any real research this time I'd argue that terrorist attacks have declined because liberals have largely stopped setting off bombs (or than maybe water balloons filled with paint) in protest and instead have gotten naked. Violent liberal protests seem to be rioting when the protest is broken up and not actual terrorist plots. In this case I'll just

And, again school violence is way down.

You are finding specific statistical elements to support your point of view. You need to look at the big picture, Aurora, Dorner, Newtown, Boston Marathon, etc...

I'd bet you could easily google a page that shows that crazed ex-L.A. cop killing sprees are trending down too.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

On the positive side, I'm looking forward to BFS continuing to argue with him even if he never comes back.

Not trying to change his mind. And don't be mad at me that you were stupid enough to argue with your wife about whether it was safer for your kids to go outside or take a bath..

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I think the disconnect is that Bottomfeeder is talking about terrorism in the sense that the acts are perpetrated for religious reasons.

You are talking about terrorism in the sense that it can be perpetrated for a political or, ideological goal (as well as for religious reasons).

There have been more mass (or spree) killings IMO due to copy cats and the proliferation of the events by the main stream and social media outlets.

Actually this wrong. Without doing any real research this time I'd argue that terrorist attacks have declined because liberals have largely stopped setting off bombs (or than maybe water balloons filled with paint) in protest and instead have gotten naked. Violent liberal protests seem to be rioting when the protest is broken up and not actual terrorist plots. In this case I'll just

And, again school violence is way down.

You are finding specific statistical elements to support your point of view. You need to look at the big picture, Aurora, Dorner, Newtown, Boston Marathon, etc...

I'd bet you could easily google a page that shows that crazed ex-L.A. cop killing sprees are trending down too.

This is ultimately a debate about how to spend our limited resources. We can chose "style over substance" and allow the "headline grabbing", weeks of 24x7 news channel coverage events cause us to lose all perspective, or we can realize that in a big world extremely rare events happen with some frequency.

With limited resources I'd rather that we spend them on items that give us the "biggest bang for the buck". If we must give up civil liberties I'd prefer we give them up for good and real reasons. We can't give into the irrational fear and anger and contempt that drives the "politics of fear".

"Perhaps" gun control legislation will make a difference. Should we not try at any cost to "perhaps" avoid the next Sandy Hook? How is this different? "Perhaps" Bloomberg's soda cup size regulations will reduce needless deaths and health care costs. Should we not try at any cost to "perhaps" avoid the next obese generation? How is this different?

That is other than being caught on film and in our gruesome and horrifying how is this different?

 

[KCitons]

On the positive side, I'm looking forward to BFS continuing to argue with him even if he never comes back.

Not trying to change his mind. And don't me mad at me that you were stupid enough to argue with your wife about whether it was safer for your kids to go outside or take a bath..

This is why this discussion should have ended 2 pages ago. Someone will eventually resort to name calling. Then things spin out of control

With that. Nanny Nanny Boo Boo,

Peace.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

On the positive side, I'm looking forward to BFS continuing to argue with him even if he never comes back.

Not trying to change his mind. And don't me mad at me that you were stupid enough to argue with your wife about whether it was safer for your kids to go outside or take a bath..

This is why this discussion should have ended 2 pages ago. Someone will eventually resort to name calling. Then things spin out of control

With that. Nanny Nanny Boo Boo,

Peace.

I trust that Mr Roboto could put my post in context despite the debates we have had. But for those who missed it...

My wife won't let the kids outside. Too many chances to die.

Does she allow them to take baths? Eat? Breath?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

With limited resources I'd rather that we spend them on items that give us the "biggest bang for the buck". If we must give up civil liberties I'd prefer we give them up for good and real reasons. We can't give into the irrational fear and anger and contempt that drives the "politics of fear".

"Perhaps" gun control legislation will make a difference. Should we not try at any cost to "perhaps" avoid the next Sandy Hook? How is this different? "Perhaps" Bloomberg's soda cup size regulations will reduce needless deaths and health care costs. Should we not try at any cost to "perhaps" avoid the next obese generation? How is this different?

That is other than being caught on film and in our gruesome and horrifying how is this different?

Boston Marathon does not have limited resources, like I said the technology is probably already available. So where is the money going? For better camera coverage and more boots on the ground? Neither of those seem really expensive for an event like this.

You bring up gun control and Newtown etc...gun control does not prevent another Newtown. Reforming mental patient care and increasing security in schools including having the option of staff getting a special certification to carry a firearm prevents and limits the impact of the next Newtown.

Similarly removing gun free zones prevents/limits the impact of the next Aurora. Each situation is different and will have different solutions, this isn't a 1 solution fixes all.

 

[SacramentoBob]

You are finding specific statistical elements to support your point of view.

I can't believe I just read this.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

You are finding specific statistical elements to support your point of view.

I can't believe I just read this.

But wait, my notebook tells me something different about this poster and I am going to insult him for posting this.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I think the disconnect is that Bottomfeeder is talking about terrorism in the sense that the acts are perpetrated for religious reasons.

You are talking about terrorism in the sense that it can be perpetrated for a political or, ideological goal (as well as for religious reasons).

There have been more mass (or spree) killings IMO due to copy cats and the proliferation of the events by the main stream and social media outlets.

Actually this wrong. Without doing any real research this time I'd argue that terrorist attacks have declined because liberals have largely stopped setting off bombs (or than maybe water balloons filled with paint) in protest and instead have gotten naked. Violent liberal protests seem to be rioting when the protest is broken up and not actual terrorist plots. In this case I'll just

And, again school violence is way down.

You are finding specific statistical elements to support your point of view. You need to look at the big picture, Aurora, Dorner, Newtown, Boston Marathon, etc...

I'd bet you could easily google a page that shows that crazed ex-L.A. cop killing sprees are trending down too.

Yeah, bottomfeeder. Stop using statistics to support your point. Instead you need to look at the "big picture," by which I mean anecdotal evidence of bad things I remember watching on the news. See, my TV has a big screen, which is what I'm referring to when I say "big picture," not the actual big picture.

 

[Doug B]

You are finding specific statistical elements to support your point of view.

I can't believe I just read this.

I think 5 digit was implying that some cherry-picking was going on. Not that the linked facts weren't good ... but a legitimate question can be raised about whether or not those facts are even particularly relevant. Who cares if broad-scale "school violence" is mathematically "down"? One Columbine or Newtown has more societal reverberation than, for example, a thousand hallway stabbings. Just reckoning body counts alone doesn't really inform policy all that much, IMHO.

BFS touches on this in post #9023 except that he comes down in favor of, essentially, a purely mathematical reckoning of the severity of given acts of violence. He's right that "death by terrorism" is on par, statistically, with things like "death by meteorite". But is he right that pure casualty numbers should drive policy? That's an open question.

My opinion is that an event such as the Aurora theater shooting, in which 12 died and 58 were injured, is immensely more impactful on society (admittedly, not in a measurable way) than 70 disparate acts of random criminal violence on individuals. Accordingly, I think it's proper to throw greater resources at stopping future James Holmeses and Tamerlan Tsarnaevs than at stopping random dark-alley shootings, even though the latter results in more deaths & injuries. The reason? I believe that with terrrorist acts and mass-casualty violence, the damage done to society far exceeds the worth of the lives lost and bodies maimed.

 

[sporthenry]

Whole lot of this going on here.

Since what actually happened is so obvious once it happens, we overestimate how obvious it was before it happened.

We actually misremember what we once thought, believing that we knew all along that what happened would happen. It's a surprisingly strong tendency, one that has been observed in countless laboratory experiments and real-world examples of behavior. And it's what all the post-Boston-Marathon bombing dot-connectors are doing.

It's not a matter of not enough data, either.

Piling more data onto the mix makes it harder, not easier. The best way to think of it is a needle-in-a-haystack problem; the last thing you want to do is increase the amount of hay you have to search through.

 

[Joe T]

I'm going disgruntled taxpayer.

Careful. Some people in here find that to be unfunny.

I'm serious, not trying to be funny. My prediction is this is domestic and it's someone angry about taxes.

So was I. If Vegas would let me put money on this, I put it on the line for some Tea Party extremist wanting a 21st century tea party event.

Update?

 

[mr roboto]

On the positive side, I'm looking forward to BFS continuing to argue with him even if he never comes back.

Not trying to change his mind. And don't me mad at me that you were stupid enough to argue with your wife about whether it was safer for your kids to go outside or take a bath..

This is why this discussion should have ended 2 pages ago. Someone will eventually resort to name calling. Then things spin out of controlWith that. Nanny Nanny Boo Boo,

Peace.

I trust that Mr Roboto could put my post in context despite the debates we have had. But for those who missed it...

My wife won't let the kids outside. Too many chances to die.

Does she allow them to take baths? Eat? Breath?

Please tell me this is schtick. Please. Despite our arguments on this board, I have always thought you were pretty dang smart. Hint: I agree with you in this thread. Also, sometimes people utilize over-the-top comparisons for comic relief.

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm going disgruntled taxpayer.

Careful. Some people in here find that to be unfunny.

I'm serious, not trying to be funny. My prediction is this is domestic and it's someone angry about taxes.

So was I. If Vegas would let me put money on this, I put it on the line for some Tea Party extremist wanting a 21st century tea party event.

Update?

Point? There was plenty of reasons (tax day, highest % of terrorism being domestic and furthermore being right wing, location of original Tea Party) to hedge bets on EXTREMIST right wing groups (please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) over other groups. The thing to look at here is that they were all guesses, not accusations as a bunch of people whined about. Those of us that guessed EXTREMISTS ((please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) played the most likely percentage and were wrong in our GUESSES (not accusations as a bunch of people whined about).

 

[Joe T]

I'm going disgruntled taxpayer.

Careful. Some people in here find that to be unfunny.

I'm serious, not trying to be funny. My prediction is this is domestic and it's someone angry about taxes.

So was I. If Vegas would let me put money on this, I put it on the line for some Tea Party extremist wanting a 21st century tea party event.

Update?

Point? There was plenty of reasons (tax day, highest % of terrorism being domestic and furthermore being right wing, location of original Tea Party) to hedge bets on EXTREMIST right wing groups (please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) over other groups. The thing to look at here is that they were all guesses, not accusations as a bunch of people whined about. Those of us that guessed EXTREMISTS ((please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) played the most likely percentage and were wrong in our GUESSES (not accusations as a bunch of people whined about).

The point is he was ####### wrong and should come in and own it.

 

[KCitons]

I know a lot of people are skeptical that someone monitoring the crowd would be unable to pick out the bombers and then be able to act to protect innocent lives. People will say that the bombers looked just like everyone else walking through the crowd.

I'm sure I will get a lot of comments from this, but I have about 8 years of experience working in retail loss prevention. (I know, most of you are thinking "rent a cop" or this guy thinks he's an "FBI agent") I didn't think that and still don't. The one thing I did learn is that equipment has evolved tremendously over the last 20 years. My first job we had limited movement of cameras and most systems were limited to Black and White. We also were stuck using time lapse VCR that recorded frame by frame every few seconds. There were times we would miss things on the recorder if the frame rate was too slow.

The other thing I learned very early, is that 99% of your thieves will act strange. They are nervous, they are scared and they cannot control their body language. A good portion of the people that I caught exhibited this type of behavior before they committed the crime. The same could be said for these bombers. A trained person would have a chance at picking these people out of the crowd. Perhaps if they were deemed suspicious, the police could have moved closer. Would the bombers have set off the bombs if their only option was to commit suicide in the process?

My wife always tells me it was because of my profession, that I lost faith in my fellow man. I spent 7 years doing this right out of college. It seemed each year shoplifters got more and more violent. I left and ran my own business for 13 years. Last year I returned to help out a friend at large chain store at the local mall. (The same mall where the Von Maur shootings occurred in 2007) It didn't take long to realize that things had gotten much worse. Not only was shoplifting way up, the people would rather punch, stab, or run you over to get away with $50 worth of merchandise. After six months and too many fights to count, I hung it up for good.

So, when I say things have gotten worse. I feel that it has. Whether it's born out of religion, greed, political hatred, or mental instability the place we live in now is not one I want my kids to grow up in. As one of the wealthiest countries in the world we should be able to take care of our own. When you ask if it's worth giving up something to save one life, I say yes. You don't know what that one life holds. You don't know that Martin Richard wouldn't have gone on to find a cure for cancer. Or solve the energy crisis. Or broker world peace. Every time a kid dies, I wonder what we lost. (and yes, we need to do something about the youths that die on our streets every day)

This is why I choose to quit arguing, it doesn't solve anything. There's enough anger, hatred and violence in the world.

 

[sporthenry]

I'm going disgruntled taxpayer.

Careful. Some people in here find that to be unfunny.

I'm serious, not trying to be funny. My prediction is this is domestic and it's someone angry about taxes.

So was I. If Vegas would let me put money on this, I put it on the line for some Tea Party extremist wanting a 21st century tea party event.

Update?

Point? There was plenty of reasons (tax day, highest % of terrorism being domestic and furthermore being right wing, location of original Tea Party) to hedge bets on EXTREMIST right wing groups (please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) over other groups. The thing to look at here is that they were all guesses, not accusations as a bunch of people whined about. Those of us that guessed EXTREMISTS ((please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) played the most likely percentage and were wrong in our GUESSES (not accusations as a bunch of people whined about).

The point is he was ####### wrong and should come in and own it.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

On the positive side, I'm looking forward to BFS continuing to argue with him even if he never comes back.

Not trying to change his mind. And don't me mad at me that you were stupid enough to argue with your wife about whether it was safer for your kids to go outside or take a bath..

This is why this discussion should have ended 2 pages ago. Someone will eventually resort to name calling. Then things spin out of controlWith that. Nanny Nanny Boo Boo,

Peace.

I trust that Mr Roboto could put my post in context despite the debates we have had. But for those who missed it...

My wife won't let the kids outside. Too many chances to die.

Does she allow them to take baths? Eat? Breath?

Please tell me this is schtick. Please. Despite our arguments on this board, I have always thought you were pretty dang smart.Hint: I agree with you in this thread. Also, sometimes people utilize over-the-top comparisons for comic relief.

I assumed that "My wife won't let the kids outside. Too many chances to die." was for comic relief. I responded to you accordingly.

Comparing terrorist attacks to lightning strikes, however is not shtick. Sure there are difference in the nature of the two, but statistically speaking and how we [could] react to them are very comparable.

 

[The Kerminator]

KCitons, on 01 May 2013 - 12:04, said:

..Things sure has hell have been getting worse and worse over the past 25 years. ...

Terrorism has steadily and constantly declined since the 70's. Didn't you say that your point of reference was more than the past 10 years?

I was talking about crime in general.

Again, I'm not sure what more we have to discuss. We each have our own opinions and I highly doubt either of us are going to change them.

So you are tilting at windmills because the world is going to hell in a hand basket?

"Crime in general" has steadily declined also.

Have a nice day. Peace.

It's one thing to have different opinions on a subject, but you can't agree to disagree over the facts,

We can continue to discuss this. I figured we were getting close to the point where someone tells us to take the conversation private or start a new thread.

I'm not disagreeing on the facts. But, if you follow the link he provided, it only takes you to a google search for "terrorism is on the decline since 1970". If you change the word decline to increase, you can find similar articles about increases in terrorism.

My statement about things getting worse over the past 25 years was in regards to crimes where people shoot up schools or movies theaters Or people park Ryder trucks full of fertilizer in front of federal buildings. Or kids detonate pressure cooker bombs at the Boston Marathon. Maybe these things happened all the time back then and I just wasn't paying attention. Maybe it's the media coverage that allows us all to see carnage left behind. People with their legs blown off or bloody high school student crawling out of a broken window. So if my perception doesn't match the facts, then so be it. I'm certain that I'm not alone.

Beyond that, there is not much more to discuss. BFS has his opinion on what America should do to prevent these things from happening in the future and I have mine. We could continue to go back and forth, but I don't plan on changing. And, I get the feeling he isn't either.

Passed that point looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

You are finding specific statistical elements to support your point of view.

I can't believe I just read this.

I think 5 digit was implying that some cherry-picking was going on. Not that the linked facts weren't good ... but a legitimate question can be raised about whether or not those facts are even particularly relevant. Who cares if broad-scale "school violence" is mathematically "down"? One Columbine or Newtown has more societal reverberation than, for example, a thousand hallway stabbings. Just reckoning body counts alone doesn't really inform policy all that much, IMHO.BFS touches on this in post #9023 except that he comes down in favor of, essentially, a purely mathematical reckoning of the severity of given acts of violence. He's right that "death by terrorism" is on par, statistically, with things like "death by meteorite". But is he right that pure casualty numbers should drive policy? That's an open question.

My opinion is that an event such as the Aurora theater shooting, in which 12 died and 58 were injured, is immensely more impactful on society (admittedly, not in a measurable way) than 70 disparate acts of random criminal violence on individuals. Accordingly, I think it's proper to throw greater resources at stopping future James Holmeses and Tamerlan Tsarnaevs than at stopping random dark-alley shootings, even though the latter results in more deaths & injuries. The reason? I believe that with terrrorist acts and mass-casualty violence, the damage done to society far exceeds the worth of the lives lost and bodies maimed.

Except I haven't disallowed placing costs on things above and beyond "pure casualty numbers". I think it is fair for reasonable people to place value on intangible things that are very difficult to quantify. For example our civil liberties. At times the only real "societal cost" supporting some form of regulation or prohibition seems to be "moral outrage". And usually when that outrage dissipates these regulations or prohibitions prove to have been bad policy - but that is another discussion. If you or someone else actually argued a value for "the shock value" of terrorism that should be applied to these cost-benefit analysis I may reject your figure, but I wouldn't find it unreasonable that there was a figure.However, there are numerous catches to this. The greater that figure is the more benefit that a potential terrorist has in carrying out a terrorist attack. The greater that figure is the greater chance we have to implement really bad policies. And of course if we can't agree on pure numerical trends, what chance do we have to agree on something that is impossible to really quantify?

Finally, whatever value we assign to this by whatever method will not be a constant. When we go a bit without any real "shocks" to our system this value will decline. When the shock is still fresh it will go through the roof. So ultimately, personally I think we should place a heavy discount on this value, but it is still not zero and it could tip the scales.

ETA: And one of the links I posted in this thread calculated that the federal government ("we the people") spend $200 million dollars for every life potentially saved from a terrorist attack. Which is more than 20 time the value that the federal government places on a life. Are terrorist causalities 20 times worst than a "run of the mill" human death? Nate Silver in the Wall Street Journal did something similar for the "opportunity costs" of standing in airport security check points which is interesting, but I'm not sure that really applies to this particular point - just interesting in the overall discussion.

 

[JuniorNB]

I know a lot of people are skeptical that someone monitoring the crowd would be unable to pick out the bombers and then be able to act to protect innocent lives. People will say that the bombers looked just like everyone else walking through the crowd.

I'm sure I will get a lot of comments from this, but I have about 8 years of experience working in retail loss prevention. (I know, most of you are thinking "rent a cop" or this guy thinks he's an "FBI agent") I didn't think that and still don't. The one thing I did learn is that equipment has evolved tremendously over the last 20 years. My first job we had limited movement of cameras and most systems were limited to Black and White. We also were stuck using time lapse VCR that recorded frame by frame every few seconds. There were times we would miss things on the recorder if the frame rate was too slow.

The other thing I learned very early, is that 99% of your thieves will act strange. They are nervous, they are scared and they cannot control their body language. A good portion of the people that I caught exhibited this type of behavior before they committed the crime. The same could be said for these bombers. A trained person would have a chance at picking these people out of the crowd. Perhaps if they were deemed suspicious, the police could have moved closer. Would the bombers have set off the bombs if their only option was to commit suicide in the process?

My wife always tells me it was because of my profession, that I lost faith in my fellow man. I spent 7 years doing this right out of college. It seemed each year shoplifters got more and more violent. I left and ran my own business for 13 years. Last year I returned to help out a friend at large chain store at the local mall. (The same mall where the Von Maur shootings occurred in 2007) It didn't take long to realize that things had gotten much worse. Not only was shoplifting way up, the people would rather punch, stab, or run you over to get away with $50 worth of merchandise. After six months and too many fights to count, I hung it up for good.

So, when I say things have gotten worse. I feel that it has. Whether it's born out of religion, greed, political hatred, or mental instability the place we live in now is not one I want my kids to grow up in. As one of the wealthiest countries in the world we should be able to take care of our own. When you ask if it's worth giving up something to save one life, I say yes. You don't know what that one life holds. You don't know that Martin Richard wouldn't have gone on to find a cure for cancer. Or solve the energy crisis. Or broker world peace. Every time a kid dies, I wonder what we lost. (and yes, we need to do something about the youths that die on our streets every day)

This is why I choose to quit arguing, it doesn't solve anything. There's enough anger, hatred and violence in the world.

I just counted and this is the 14th argument you've made since you stopped arguing.

 

[KCitons]

I know a lot of people are skeptical that someone monitoring the crowd would be unable to pick out the bombers and then be able to act to protect innocent lives. People will say that the bombers looked just like everyone else walking through the crowd.

I'm sure I will get a lot of comments from this, but I have about 8 years of experience working in retail loss prevention. (I know, most of you are thinking "rent a cop" or this guy thinks he's an "FBI agent") I didn't think that and still don't. The one thing I did learn is that equipment has evolved tremendously over the last 20 years. My first job we had limited movement of cameras and most systems were limited to Black and White. We also were stuck using time lapse VCR that recorded frame by frame every few seconds. There were times we would miss things on the recorder if the frame rate was too slow.

The other thing I learned very early, is that 99% of your thieves will act strange. They are nervous, they are scared and they cannot control their body language. A good portion of the people that I caught exhibited this type of behavior before they committed the crime. The same could be said for these bombers. A trained person would have a chance at picking these people out of the crowd. Perhaps if they were deemed suspicious, the police could have moved closer. Would the bombers have set off the bombs if their only option was to commit suicide in the process?

My wife always tells me it was because of my profession, that I lost faith in my fellow man. I spent 7 years doing this right out of college. It seemed each year shoplifters got more and more violent. I left and ran my own business for 13 years. Last year I returned to help out a friend at large chain store at the local mall. (The same mall where the Von Maur shootings occurred in 2007) It didn't take long to realize that things had gotten much worse. Not only was shoplifting way up, the people would rather punch, stab, or run you over to get away with $50 worth of merchandise. After six months and too many fights to count, I hung it up for good.

So, when I say things have gotten worse. I feel that it has. Whether it's born out of religion, greed, political hatred, or mental instability the place we live in now is not one I want my kids to grow up in. As one of the wealthiest countries in the world we should be able to take care of our own. When you ask if it's worth giving up something to save one life, I say yes. You don't know what that one life holds. You don't know that Martin Richard wouldn't have gone on to find a cure for cancer. Or solve the energy crisis. Or broker world peace. Every time a kid dies, I wonder what we lost. (and yes, we need to do something about the youths that die on our streets every day)

This is why I choose to quit arguing, it doesn't solve anything. There's enough anger, hatred and violence in the world.

I just counted and this is the 14th argument you've made since you stopped arguing.

Thanks for noticing. You win.

 

[Raider Nation]

New Hampshire state Rep. Stella Tremblay, who has come under fire after claiming the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing and suggesting that bombing victim Jeff Bauman was faking having his legs blown off, joined Dennis & Callahan on Friday for a brief conversation before hanging up on the hosts.

“All I’m asking is for a full investigation,” Tremblay said. “Not the FBI, but some unbiased … someone else removed from the FBI to make a full investigation. … You don’t want the truth, that’s fine. I’m asking for a full investigation.”

Audio link to the interview

I love Gerry's first question: "Are you insane?"

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm going disgruntled taxpayer.

Careful. Some people in here find that to be unfunny.

I'm serious, not trying to be funny. My prediction is this is domestic and it's someone angry about taxes.

So was I. If Vegas would let me put money on this, I put it on the line for some Tea Party extremist wanting a 21st century tea party event.

Update?

Point? There was plenty of reasons (tax day, highest % of terrorism being domestic and furthermore being right wing, location of original Tea Party) to hedge bets on EXTREMIST right wing groups (please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) over other groups. The thing to look at here is that they were all guesses, not accusations as a bunch of people whined about. Those of us that guessed EXTREMISTS ((please note that using words like radical, or extremist denote unstable hardcore minorites in a group, not the whole group) played the most likely percentage and were wrong in our GUESSES (not accusations as a bunch of people whined about).

The point is he was ####### wrong and should come in and own it.

own what, that a guess was wrong? Pretty sure he's been in here talking about who actually did it, which by definition is admitting he was wrong. I'm going to make a guess here and say that you're probably a right winger who doesn't make the distinction between, say, Muslims and radical Muslims, so you got all butt hurt that people were guessing right wing radicals because to you there's no radicals, so naturally you think this was a criticism aimed at rank and file TPs. Even factoring this attack into the equation, the odds are still over 50% that any terrorist attack is domestic and of those attacks somewhere between 70-80% are done by far right wingers. These are based on the post 9/11 facts NCC posted earlier in the thread where one of your fellow right wingers was talking about sooner or later taking revenge on people for "blaming" things on right wing radicals, even though a guess, again by definition, is not an accusation. So I guess you should add Websters, the numerical system, facts and data also to your list of things that need to own up to this attack falling into the 13% (now slightly higher) of attacks committed by Muslims. And all those figures were before adjusting for special factors like it being tax day and the site of the original Tea Party. So you really think that someone who knows the numbers probably better than anyone on this board and was well in the highest probability category with his guess (once again, since definitions don't seem to be your strong suit, not an actual accusation) needs to "own it" because this attack fell into the 13% category? You sir, are ridiculous. Now go back to polishing your guns in your Beck underoos, muttering about taking care of things in a 2nd Amendment way while getting upset that people think Tea Party extremists are dangerous.

 

[Joe T]

Huh?

 

[Joe T]

I just said he was wrong mainly for jumping to conclusions before ANY facts were available. When a tragedy happens, immediately making wild ### guesses around the cause seems like a pretty weird thing to do to me.

 

[culdeus]

why can't this guy be hauled out to sea and dumped like bin laden?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

New Hampshire state Rep. Stella Tremblay, who has come under fire after claiming the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing and suggesting that bombing victim Jeff Bauman was faking having his legs blown off, joined Dennis & Callahan on Friday for a brief conversation before hanging up on the hosts.

“All I’m asking is for a full investigation,” Tremblay said. “Not the FBI, but some unbiased … someone else removed from the FBI to make a full investigation. … You don’t want the truth, that’s fine. I’m asking for a full investigation.”

Audio link to the interview

I love Gerry's first question: "Are you insane?"

WOW....who the hell voted her in?????

 

[QuizGuy66]

New Hampshire state Rep. Stella Tremblay, who has come under fire after claiming the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing and suggesting that bombing victim Jeff Bauman was faking having his legs blown off, joined Dennis & Callahan on Friday for a brief conversation before hanging up on the hosts.

“All I’m asking is for a full investigation,” Tremblay said. “Not the FBI, but some unbiased … someone else removed from the FBI to make a full investigation. … You don’t want the truth, that’s fine. I’m asking for a full investigation.”

Audio link to the interview

I love Gerry's first question: "Are you insane?"

WOW....who the hell voted her in?????

4460 morons who live in New Hampshire House District Rockingham 04:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2012/general/by_county/state_sen_house/NH.html?SITE=WEVOFMELN&SECTION=POLITICS

-QG

 

[mad sweeney]

I just said he was wrong mainly for jumping to conclusions before ANY facts were available. When a tragedy happens, immediately making wild ### guesses around the cause seems like a pretty weird thing to do to me.

Continuing with your disdain for definitions I see. A guess is not jumping to a conclusion. Going with the numbers is not a wild ### guess. You weren't "just saying he was wrong" either. So basically, everything you said above was complete horsecrap. Do I need to define that for you too?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

New Hampshire state Rep. Stella Tremblay, who has come under fire after claiming the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing and suggesting that bombing victim Jeff Bauman was faking having his legs blown off, joined Dennis & Callahan on Friday for a brief conversation before hanging up on the hosts.

All Im asking is for a full investigation, Tremblay said. Not the FBI, but some unbiased someone else removed from the FBI to make a full investigation. You dont want the truth, thats fine. Im asking for a full investigation.

Audio link to the interview

I love Gerry's first question: "Are you insane?"

WOW....who the hell voted her in?????

She's a tea party birther I think.

 

[GoFishTN]

I just said he was wrong mainly for jumping to conclusions before ANY facts were available. When a tragedy happens, immediately making wild ### guesses around the cause seems like a pretty weird thing to do to me.

Continuing with your disdain for definitions I see. A guess is not jumping to a conclusion. Going with the numbers is not a wild ### guess. You weren't "just saying he was wrong" either. So basically, everything you said above was complete horsecrap. Do I need to define that for you too?

By going with the numbers you mean Latinos, right? Surely you're not letting your bias get in the way.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

 

[mad sweeney]

New Hampshire state Rep. Stella Tremblay, who has come under fire after claiming the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing and suggesting that bombing victim Jeff Bauman was faking having his legs blown off, joined Dennis & Callahan on Friday for a brief conversation before hanging up on the hosts.

All Im asking is for a full investigation, Tremblay said. Not the FBI, but some unbiased someone else removed from the FBI to make a full investigation. You dont want the truth, thats fine. Im asking for a full investigation.

Audio link to the interviewI love Gerry's first question: "Are you insane?"

WOW....who the hell voted her in?????

She's a tea party birther I think.

She's a brain dead lunatic. http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/02/1952791/new-hampshire-legislator-claims-boston-bombing-was-an-inside-job-because-victim-looked-calm/?mobile=wt

 

[mad sweeney]

I just said he was wrong mainly for jumping to conclusions before ANY facts were available. When a tragedy happens, immediately making wild ### guesses around the cause seems like a pretty weird thing to do to me.

Continuing with your disdain for definitions I see. A guess is not jumping to a conclusion. Going with the numbers is not a wild ### guess. You weren't "just saying he was wrong" either. So basically, everything you said above was complete horsecrap. Do I need to define that for you too?

By going with the numbers you mean Latinos, right? Surely you're not letting your bias get in the way.

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

What ideology is represented by "Latino"? I'm using the federal numbers that NCC posted early in the thread. The numbers are vastly different, although the categories are too. The federal numbers were t broken down into useless ones like Latino. Obviously you're not letting your brain get in the way.

PS, in the way of what? Nobody accused anyone of it, plus there were external factors that essentially adjusted the numbers up for certain groups. The date and location were logical factors to think about, but again, no one blamed anyone.

It also strikes me as curious that so many people want to go out of their way to defend the good name of extremists. By definition, anyone that was guessed at fell into the category of terrorist scum, yet a lot of people have the hackles up over what scumbag group gets guessed.

 

[Joe T]

I'm going disgruntled taxpayer.

Careful. Some people in here find that to be unfunny.

I'm serious, not trying to be funny. My prediction is this is domestic and it's someone angry about taxes.

So was I. If Vegas would let me put money on this, I put it on the line for some Tea Party extremist wanting a 21st century tea party event.

Update?

Update? Did Politican Spock win any money in vegas?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

JEFF BAUMAN WAVES THE BOSTON BRUINS FLAG AT THE GAME...TRUE SPIRIT OF BOSTON STRONG

http://youtu.be/x5z5ypYbh78

 

[mad sweeney]

JEFF BAUMAN WAVES THE BOSTON BRUINS FLAG AT THE GAME...TRUE SPIRIT OF BOSTON STRONG

http://youtu.be/x5z5ypYbh78

Can't wait to hear all the absolutely disgusting morons using this to further the "he was an actor" conspiracy trash. Good for him, has to be good for his spirits. Hope they give him free tickets for life.

 

[Short Corner]

I'm going disgruntled taxpayer.

Careful. Some people in here find that to be unfunny.

I'm serious, not trying to be funny. My prediction is this is domestic and it's someone angry about taxes.

So was I. If Vegas would let me put money on this, I put it on the line for some Tea Party extremist wanting a 21st century tea party event.

Update?

Update? Did Politican Spock win any money in vegas?

Vegas wasn't taking bets.

HTH

 

[jon_mx]

New Hampshire state Rep. Stella Tremblay, who has come under fire after claiming the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing and suggesting that bombing victim Jeff Bauman was faking having his legs blown off, joined Dennis & Callahan on Friday for a brief conversation before hanging up on the hosts.

All Im asking is for a full investigation, Tremblay said. Not the FBI, but some unbiased someone else removed from the FBI to make a full investigation. You dont want the truth, thats fine. Im asking for a full investigation.

Audio link to the interview

I love Gerry's first question: "Are you insane?"

WOW....who the hell voted her in?????

She's a tea party birther I think.

That is so hot.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

http://nesn.com/2013/05/maple-leafs-fan-brings-toronto-stronger-sign-to-air-canada-centre-for-game-3-against-bruins-photo/

talk about classless

 

[Godsbrother]

What a crackpot.

 

[johnnycakes]

New Hampshire state Rep. Stella Tremblay, who has come under fire after claiming the federal government was behind the Boston Marathon bombing and suggesting that bombing victim Jeff Bauman was faking having his legs blown off, joined Dennis & Callahan on Friday for a brief conversation before hanging up on the hosts.

“All I’m asking is for a full investigation,” Tremblay said. “Not the FBI, but some unbiased … someone else removed from the FBI to make a full investigation. … You don’t want the truth, that’s fine. I’m asking for a full investigation.”

Audio link to the interview

I love Gerry's first question: "Are you insane?"

New Hampshire has more than its share of inbreeders.

 

[Jaysus]

Geez.... Sweeny really is mad, huh?

 

[mad sweeney]

Geez.... Sweeny really is mad, huh?

What tipped you off, the name?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The man who helped one of the runners who had both his legs blown off in the explosions, he is actually from South Florida and lost his son about 10 years ago in Iraq, in fact the man burned his van and lit himself on fire after he found out his son was killed. Very intense guy it would seem.

http://www.local10.com/news/cowboy-hat-hero-honored-in-miami/-/1717324/20056998/-/10mbe75z/-/index.html

Basically where others were running in panic, he was one of the first to get over and start ripping back the metal barracks to get to the people and you can see him with his cowboy hat on helping transport the guy in the wheelchair. He started giving the man first aid immediately and has been to the hospital to visit him 4 times.

 

[the moops]

http://nesn.com/2013/05/maple-leafs-fan-brings-toronto-stronger-sign-to-air-canada-centre-for-game-3-against-bruins-photo/

talk about classless

Meh. Im not sure that is something to get worked up over