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Fantasy Football Implications from MNF Game (1 Viewer)

Neil Beaufort Zod

Footballguy
The more I think about, the only legit options are either use the points accumulated in that Monday night game and end there......or use week 18 stats for those players.
Every other option to me seems silly.
The solution I've heard that makes the most sense to me right now (and I read it here) is to use the team's playoff games as their stats for week 17. All Bills and Bengals will be going all out in that game, so no chance of resting players. It delays the results by a couple weeks, but who cares? It's a more-accurate representation of a team's lineup.

Star players doing their best with everything on the line, just like we have. Finally, our playoffs are their playoffs. I respect other opinions, but not using this obvious solution seems unnecessarily stubborn for the most important fantasy game of the year.
And when one of them suffers an injury week 18?
Burn that bridge when you get to it. :-)
What if nobody gets injured and the solution is staring everyone in the face?
The best solution, and it still sucks, is probably to do what the FFPC did. They went with the stats accumulated from the game and ended the fantasy season.
However, every league is different. The money is different. The setups are different. There is no one size fits all here.
I agree that every league is different, but I think they chose the very worst option. Those stats didn't count. The NFL doesn't count them if the game isn't resumed. They don't count with regard to contract bonuses. It's like the game never happened, or there was a stat correction and those stats were wiped out. But the FFPC decided those stats count in their universe, and ended the season? I read somewhere here that they did it to not keep people in limbo, and get some of that money spent on their playoff games.

Maybe they have a financial interest in concluding the fantasy season ASAP, but we don't. We have a responsibility to get it right. And using stats that the NFL doesn't count isn't right. Using a full game's stats so every started player gets a chance to score for their team is the right decision. Anything else seems short-sighted and lazy. Just my opinion. I'm wrong a lot.
I honestly don't think it matters if the NFL counts the stats or not.
I also think their decision was very ballzy, and quite the opposite of lazy.
Any decision was going to anger a lot of people. I think they felt this decision was best for their business going forward, and probably also avoided a ton of headache with software issues for scoring.
It's completely different than regular local league setups.
This is why I don't think what they did was the best solution. For them, maybe. Not for their customers, or anyone running a league looking for viable options.
If it's the best solution for THEM in the short term and also long term, then it's the best solution. Period.
Maybe I misunderstood what you said originally. I thought you meant their solution was also the best for us. It's best for a business that wants the players' playoff money. It's not best for their players this year, and it wouldn't be best for a local league (like mine). But I accept it's good for that company, who I don't care about at all.
 

Ahmad Rashad

Footballguy
The more I think about, the only legit options are either use the points accumulated in that Monday night game and end there......or use week 18 stats for those players.
Every other option to me seems silly.
The solution I've heard that makes the most sense to me right now (and I read it here) is to use the team's playoff games as their stats for week 17. All Bills and Bengals will be going all out in that game, so no chance of resting players. It delays the results by a couple weeks, but who cares? It's a more-accurate representation of a team's lineup.

Star players doing their best with everything on the line, just like we have. Finally, our playoffs are their playoffs. I respect other opinions, but not using this obvious solution seems unnecessarily stubborn for the most important fantasy game of the year.
I've proposed 2 possible solutions to my opponent for our championship: This one and splitting the pot with each of us getting 2nd place money, with the rest going to the Damar Hamlin foundation -- he would be declared the champion since he was ahead (I had Allen, Mixon, and Buf D going, with about 40% odds if winning on ESPN at that time). He likes both solutions and is discussing with our commish.

I also suggested a mix of the 2, with the champ determined by scoring from the first week of the playoffs and us each getting the 2nd place prize, with the rest going to the Hamlin foundation.

I like the idea of donating part of the pot to the Damar Hamlin foundation, as I really like how he wants to impact his community.
Hey, if you both agree to it, it's the right move. Personally, I don't care as much about the money part (I don't play in any high-stakes leagues). I'd be more interested in the title. I'd want to see a champion determined with what happens in a game. Love the idea of donating a good chunk of the $. Is the foundation his GoFundMe thing that has $7+ million?
Yes, that's his foundation he set up in college. After reading his story, I'm confident he'll do good things with that money.

Agree on the money part, which is why donating to the foundation makes sense. I hope my opponent agrees to the mix, so the title is decided on the field.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
The more I think about, the only legit options are either use the points accumulated in that Monday night game and end there......or use week 18 stats for those players.
Every other option to me seems silly.
The solution I've heard that makes the most sense to me right now (and I read it here) is to use the team's playoff games as their stats for week 17. All Bills and Bengals will be going all out in that game, so no chance of resting players. It delays the results by a couple weeks, but who cares? It's a more-accurate representation of a team's lineup.

Star players doing their best with everything on the line, just like we have. Finally, our playoffs are their playoffs. I respect other opinions, but not using this obvious solution seems unnecessarily stubborn for the most important fantasy game of the year.
And when one of them suffers an injury week 18?
Burn that bridge when you get to it. :-)
What if nobody gets injured and the solution is staring everyone in the face?
The best solution, and it still sucks, is probably to do what the FFPC did. They went with the stats accumulated from the game and ended the fantasy season.
However, every league is different. The money is different. The setups are different. There is no one size fits all here.
I agree that every league is different, but I think they chose the very worst option. Those stats didn't count. The NFL doesn't count them if the game isn't resumed. They don't count with regard to contract bonuses. It's like the game never happened, or there was a stat correction and those stats were wiped out. But the FFPC decided those stats count in their universe, and ended the season? I read somewhere here that they did it to not keep people in limbo, and get some of that money spent on their playoff games.

Maybe they have a financial interest in concluding the fantasy season ASAP, but we don't. We have a responsibility to get it right. And using stats that the NFL doesn't count isn't right. Using a full game's stats so every started player gets a chance to score for their team is the right decision. Anything else seems short-sighted and lazy. Just my opinion. I'm wrong a lot.
I honestly don't think it matters if the NFL counts the stats or not.
I also think their decision was very ballzy, and quite the opposite of lazy.
Any decision was going to anger a lot of people. I think they felt this decision was best for their business going forward, and probably also avoided a ton of headache with software issues for scoring.
It's completely different than regular local league setups.
This is why I don't think what they did was the best solution. For them, maybe. Not for their customers, or anyone running a league looking for viable options.
If it's the best solution for THEM in the short term and also long term, then it's the best solution. Period.
Maybe I misunderstood what you said originally. I thought you meant their solution was also the best for us. It's best for a business that wants the players' playoff money. It's not best for their players this year, and it wouldn't be best for a local league (like mine). But I accept it's good for that company, who I don't care about at all.
Correct.
Any local league will be case by case basis, and should be.
 

theplayer11

Footballguy
I have a problem with people thinking that because they are only xxx points down and xxx players left, their opponent should hand them the championship.
Points are not in the bank until the player makes them. Injuries happen, WRs have put up goose eggs before.
This wasn't an injury. This wasn't a player sucking and putting up a goose egg.
my point is you can't just hand a player points, like their avg. because injuries do happen.
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I'm stepping down as commish of Fantasy Legends II after this season. I've been doing it for 17 years in that league. For the Bengals game that I was in the title game, behind by 6 with 3 to play (Allen, Mixon, Davis) and my opponent has none and won't concede and rejects my solution. So I will split the money ($300) if the game is cancelled, but will apply week 18 stats for those players to week 17 to determine the champion. Obviously If the game isn't cancelled I will apply the stats from the make-up game to week 17 and winner takes the full prize $300. Either someone will take over or the league will fold. I'll stay on as an owner. The way this has gone down with the guy I'm playing I wouldn't feel right staying on as commish of that league any longer. It has left a bitter taste in my mouth.
once I got over being mad I changed my mind about stepping down. However I did ask if anyone else wants the job. I don’t want the league to fold…..and it probably would.
 

NE_REVIVAL

Footballguy
I agree that every league is different, but I think they chose the very worst option. Those stats didn't count

I am in total agreement with you.
Reasonable minds can disagree

Been with you on most of this, but hear me out. The argument that the NFL isn't counting the stats and therefore FF shouldn't either is valid and frankly how I initially leaned. But so is the argument that comparing the NFL and FF in this instance is a bit like comparing Apples to Elephants. The NFL cancelled stats from a regular season game, unfortunate, but everyone plays on.

In contrast to the FF community where this is akin to cancelling the Super Bowl part way through the game and declaring whoever was ahead with 5 mins to play is the winner and don't count the points that were scored in those last 5 mins.

Maybe not the best analogy, but I don't think declaring unequivocally those stats can't count is any sort of slam dunk righteous way of deciding things. The season was still going on when Boyd scored and had this been the NFL SB everyone knows damn well those points count or at the very least Boyd and company would get a do over in a replayed game.

There are reasons why the NFL has different rules for regular season ties and playoff ties. This was the equivalent of an NFL regular season tie, but in FF it was the Super Bowl. The NFL would never do this in a playoff game or SB. So it isn't the same, and one can't really make that argument.

For me it goes down to a case by case basis.

Am I ok if Boyd gets his points, but the Buf def isn't automatically given any and that makes the difference in the FF championship? Yes, I am

ETA, I am ok with not counting the points, I am ok with counting them. I just don't see either as a slam dunk.

Again reasonable minds can disagree.
 
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titusbramble

Footballguy
I have a problem with people thinking that because they are only xxx points down and xxx players left, their opponent should hand them the championship.
Points are not in the bank until the player makes them. Injuries happen, WRs have put up goose eggs before.
This wasn't an injury. This wasn't a player sucking and putting up a goose egg.
my point is you can't just hand a player points, like their avg. because injuries do happen.
An average, yes, you're right, as that would (should) only take into account completed games. If you were to use projections however, any reasonable projection would factor in some non-zero injury risk
 
Been with you on most of this, but hear me out. The argument that the NFL isn't counting the stats and therefore FF shouldn't either is valid and frankly how I initially leaned. But so is the argument that comparing the NFL and FF in this instance is a bit like comparing Apples to Elephants. The NFL cancelled stats from a regular season game, unfortunate, but everyone plays on.
I think the relevant part is when do stats go final. I don't post in the Shark Pool much but I have been around a long time (day 2 actually) and back when the board was still yellow I was convinced enough in my leagues that there needed to be a hard cut off where games were final and that latter stat corrections had to be ignored. I was in two leagues at the time and they disagreed on the when (one was Tuesday night, the other gave it to Sunday) but they both agreed that games had to end and not be open to changes forever. I'd think that this is what is in play here. As of the designated time these were still the stats so the games went final using them. Corrections, including wiping them out to zero because that is what the NFL did on Thursday or Friday are too late per the governing rules. Do I know this is the case, nope.
 
I agree, and I think part of it is a diluting of the commissioner role over the years. Weak commissioners who shrug their shoulders and leave it up to a website's code, or point to league bylaws as excuses for doing nothing are part of the problem. Leagues don't really need the commissioner to do anything, so when an issue comes up, they don't have a strong one. No offense to anyone reading this. I just see weakness as a poor excuse for neutering a full fantasy season when there are solutions that can determine a clear-cut winner with both teams getting results out of their lineups.
When those options are on the table, why choose anything else?
I think a commissioner that looks to the rules and follows them when they lead to a very unsatisfying outcome is sign of strength.
 

3nOut

Footballguy
If the game is cancelled - all scores stay "as is" and whoever was in the lead is the league champion - it sucks but it would be akin to a player getting hurt early in the game.
I would be plenty pissed if this was the decision made by my commish. If you're going this route then just use scores from Week 16, at least they were all complete games.
Bufalo and Cincinatti played different opponents so matchups are different. Same thing as using week 18 games to determine. Buffalo's road game against Cinci would become a home game and Cinci's matchuip is easier than the tough Buffalo D.
 

3nOut

Footballguy
I offered to concede the final I am in if things don't resume this week. 40 points down with Mixon to play vs his Allen and Davis. The opponent was clearly going to win.

In another league, the scores are basically tied with the guy narrowly behind by 0.something of a point with Tee Higgins in play. His opponent also offered to concede if it isn't resumed, I'd have been less keen to offer it up in that instance but respect the decision either way.
We don't know who would win. Probability is not a guarantee. Thats why the games are played. You cannot predict injuries as we see from this game. I am not hoping injury on anyone, but had it been Allen who was injured and had to leave the game, then it is very likely that Davis' numbers would suffer. No guarantee you wouldn't win your game.
 

jdkapow

Footballguy
I'm stepping down as commish of Fantasy Legends II after this season. I've been doing it for 17 years in that league. For the Bengals game that I was in the title game, behind by 6 with 3 to play (Allen, Mixon, Davis) and my opponent has none and won't concede and rejects my solution. So I will split the money ($300) if the game is cancelled, but will apply week 18 stats for those players to week 17 to determine the champion. Obviously If the game isn't cancelled I will apply the stats from the make-up game to week 17 and winner takes the full prize $300. Either someone will take over or the league will fold. I'll stay on as an owner. The way this has gone down with the guy I'm playing I wouldn't feel right staying on as commish of that league any longer. It has left a bitter taste in my mouth.
Why is this person making the decision for the league? Are they the commissioner? It's you, right? Why aren't you making this decision? Not trying to be harsh, but isn't that your job? Would you allow this if it was two other teams and one wouldn't concede?
As the commish he’s in the worst position. As making any decision other than having those 3 get zero means he wins. Maybe let the assistant commish decide if there is one?
As commish I’d have no problem making any other decision. But Johnny is in a ****ty spot.
I think it's a really easy spot. If there's no league rule that covers the situation, the commissioner must recuse himself. If there's an assistant, it falls on that person. Otherwise, probably a league vote to make a one-time decision (with the two parties involved not voting). In the off-season, the commissioner can use whatever process to institute new rules for these situations in the future.

The burden of doing the difficult but correct thing falls on his opponent: he should gracefully concede the championship and not force everyone else into an uncomfortable spot.
Couldn't disagree more. If two other teams were in this situation, what would the Commissioner do? Whatever that is, that's what he should do. Being fair doesn't mean hurting your own team so you "appear fair." It means being fair and treating all teams the same, including your own.

The opponent shouldn't make the decision because the commissioner doesn't feel empowered to do his job. Should we make the opponent the commissioner because they're better at making tough decisions? There shouldn't be a league vote because the league already has a commissioner. If they can't handle the job, they shouldn't be there.
If he would grant a different team with three players the winner, he should do the same for himself. I think any objective person would agree. If they refuse to use scores from week 18 or the playoffs (a better choice imo), then make a decision. Don't be held hostage by an opponent who senses weakness.

I truly don't mean any disrespect to the original poster. I get that it's a tough call. But commissioners sometimes have to do tough things to be fair to the league. I understand he said he doesn't want to be commissioner anymore. I think that might be a good idea. If you're going to let an opponent dictate what you decide, maybe it's not the right job for you.
Couldn't disagree more. Two other teams aren't in this situation. The commissioner's team is. The only appropriate way forward (assuming no league rules that resolve the issue) is for the commissioner to recuse.

Appearing fair is a huge part of being fair. You've never heard the phrase "even the appearance of impropriety?" The commissioner has to hold himself to that standard.

A big part of this is that the commissioner cannot himself be certain that he's making the same decision he would if he didn't have a personal interest, even if he's trying his best to be fair. The conflict of interest cannot help but color his judgment.

I don't know why you think that I'm saying the opponent should make the decision. Obviously he shouldn't (he needs to be recused from the decision as well). The league should make the decision. The only thing the opponent can (and should) do to resolve it is to concede, but you can't make him do that. Of course, the league could decide to kick him out afterwards because they don't want to play with him anymore, that's a possibility.

This sort of thing happens all the time in other organizations, most notably the legal profession. If a judge has a conflict of interest in a case, he/she recuses. It's standard procedure.
Looking fair is simply not the same as being fair. It just isn't. Holding 11 owners to one standard, and one to a different standard is not fair. You either trust the commissioner to be fair or you don't. It's really that simple to me. The idea that a commissioner has to punish themselves for the crime of being the commissioner seems absurd. Then again, I don't usually play with strangers, so maybe I have more faith than I would if it was a stranger. If it was someone I didn't know, I might feel the way you do. So I see that point.

The opponent apparently has veto power over what the commissioner wants to do, so he seems to hold the cards and makes the decisions. That's why I said that.
I admit I have the luxury of just of just considering it from an academic perspective, because it didn't affect our league at all. Somehow, neither team had any Bills or Bengals playing (I benched Bass for Maher in week 17). I also think it's silly when commissioners bend over backward to punish their own team so people will think they're being "fair." If they're not trusted, they shouldn't have the job. Court cases affect hundreds of millions of people in terms of precedent. A fantasy league game affects two managers. So I see it as different. I get that not everyone agrees.
You have it completely backwards. Leave aside for the moment the idea that the opponent has veto power (I agree, that's how his comment read, but you and I agree that that doesn't make any sense).

Looking fair is a necessary (but not sufficient) component of being fair. You say, "you either trust the commissioner to be fair or you don't" as if it's etched in stone. You trust the commissioner to be fair until you believe the commissioner isn't being fair, and when you get to that point, either the league or his role as commissioner are doomed. The commissioner is given his authority because the other owners think he is a fair person. In this case, the fair thing is obvious: "I have a conflict of interest, I recuse myself." I have no idea why you think doing this is unfair.

I also have no idea what you mean by "different standards" or the commissioner "punishing himself." How is he doing that by recusing himself and letting the decision be made by people who don't have a clear and obvious conflict of interest? I guess you're thinking the rest of the league will make a terrible decision that punishes the commissioner? But you're talking about a league where people know each other, where one would certainly hope the other players would be motivated to try to come up with a fair solution. What's the "punishment" you're envisioning?

What exactly do you think is wrong with the commissioner recusing himself (an act which is completely consistent with how most organizations would handle this)? And in what way do you think he's being punished if he does so? (Again, leaving aside the idea that the opponent can veto the final decision, which is nutty).
 

Gally

Footballguy
Been with you on most of this, but hear me out. The argument that the NFL isn't counting the stats and therefore FF shouldn't either is valid and frankly how I initially leaned. But so is the argument that comparing the NFL and FF in this instance is a bit like comparing Apples to Elephants. The NFL cancelled stats from a regular season game, unfortunate, but everyone plays on.
I think the relevant part is when do stats go final. I don't post in the Shark Pool much but I have been around a long time (day 2 actually) and back when the board was still yellow I was convinced enough in my leagues that there needed to be a hard cut off where games were final and that latter stat corrections had to be ignored. I was in two leagues at the time and they disagreed on the when (one was Tuesday night, the other gave it to Sunday) but they both agreed that games had to end and not be open to changes forever. I'd think that this is what is in play here. As of the designated time these were still the stats so the games went final using them. Corrections, including wiping them out to zero because that is what the NFL did on Thursday or Friday are too late per the governing rules. Do I know this is the case, nope.
I don't think what is typical for when a game goes final in FF is applicable in this case. That is to allow a season to move along and bot allow a stat change 6 weeks after the game to change an outcome that has already been moved on from.

That is not the case here for a FF LCG. There is no reason to hurry the decision or close it off. This is the final game and in the middle of a situation that has never happened before. It demands at least looking at options to see what the consensus of your league believes is right for your league.
 

3nOut

Footballguy
I have a problem with people thinking that because they are only xxx points down and xxx players left, their opponent should hand them the championship.
Points are not in the bank until the player makes them. Injuries happen, WRs have put up goose eggs before.
This wasn't an injury. This wasn't a player sucking and putting up a goose egg.
my point is you can't just hand a player points, like their avg. because injuries do happen.
Its unfortunate, but a lot of different things can happen. I had Tee Higgins in my lineup the week he was supposed to play until they decided to make him inactive after one play. He didn't GET injured, but he didn't play for whatever reason and I couldn't change it.
 

Deamon

Footballguy
I have a problem with people thinking that because they are only xxx points down and xxx players left, their opponent should hand them the championship.
Points are not in the bank until the player makes them. Injuries happen, WRs have put up goose eggs before.
This wasn't an injury. This wasn't a player sucking and putting up a goose egg.
my point is you can't just hand a player points, like their avg. because injuries do happen.
Its unfortunate, but a lot of different things can happen. I had Tee Higgins in my lineup the week he was supposed to play until they decided to make him inactive after one play. He didn't GET injured, but he didn't play for whatever reason and I couldn't change it.
He did get injured. In warm ups.
 
I don't think what is typical for when a game goes final in FF is applicable in this case. That is to allow a season to move along and bot allow a stat change 6 weeks after the game to change an outcome that has already been moved on from.

That is not the case here for a FF LCG. There is no reason to hurry the decision or close it off. This is the final game and in the middle of a situation that has never happened before. It demands at least looking at options to see what the consensus of your league believes is right for your league.
Aren't we talking about a decision of a large national site? One with (I assume) a team of lawyers telling them they need to abide to their rules?

But even for local leagues I think this is the correct call when there is doubt. Especially when it leaves a bad taste.
 

Ardbeg4ever

Footballguy
I agree, and I think part of it is a diluting of the commissioner role over the years. Weak commissioners who shrug their shoulders and leave it up to a website's code, or point to league bylaws as excuses for doing nothing are part of the problem. Leagues don't really need the commissioner to do anything, so when an issue comes up, they don't have a strong one. No offense to anyone reading this. I just see weakness as a poor excuse for neutering a full fantasy season when there are solutions that can determine a clear-cut winner with both teams getting results out of their lineups.
When those options are on the table, why choose anything else?
I think a commissioner that looks to the rules and follows them when they lead to a very unsatisfying outcome is sign of strength.
I couldn't agree with you more wholeheartedly! A great commissioner shouldn't have to make ANY rulings other than interpret the rules that were established prior. When I took over from the previous commissioner, there were rules (you can't add and drop a player in the same week) without stated penalties. No clarifications about how to handle tie-breakers (3 way head to head is not an obvious thing to figure out if there isn't a sweep). I cleaned that up and I've tried to think of all contingencies but even so I had one guy go ballistic because rosters have locked at 12:55pm on Sunday for 10 years and he didn't know it and he had player on Sunday night be a surprise inactive and he couldn't pick up a player. Of course he was playing me and accused me of changing the rules (fun). During covid I put a rule in that all the weeks games are final once the following week's games start. For this week I went to the two finalists and asked them to split or come to an agreement amongst themselves and that is what they did. If they couldn't agree, I would have ruled who ever was leading when the game was stopped was the winner.

The best outcome is to have the two finalists decide, in the absence of that I don't see how a commissioner can use anything other then the points ACTUALLY SCORED that week. What if the game was stopped with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter? Would you still use their yearly average? Would you assume Mixon would get 1 more point? One week this year I had 2 starting WRs BOTH get hurt on their first touch (one was the first play of the game), I lost by 5, should I have won?. The BUF/CIN players didn't get any more points due to an injury just like my WRs didn't. What about if a surprise windstorm comes thru and no passes are completed, should they get to pick a QB off their bench because it wasn't fair?
I remember getting a zero because a Bengal (Dillon?) got into a car accident on the way to the game even though he was listed as active, was that fair?

Again, if people are okay with do-overs, season averages etc, cool, but if they aren't, I can't rule anything other than the points their player scored, that week, because that is how fantasy football is set up.
 

habsfan

Footballguy
I don't think what is typical for when a game goes final in FF is applicable in this case. That is to allow a season to move along and bot allow a stat change 6 weeks after the game to change an outcome that has already been moved on from.

That is not the case here for a FF LCG. There is no reason to hurry the decision or close it off. This is the final game and in the middle of a situation that has never happened before. It demands at least looking at options to see what the consensus of your league believes is right for your league.
Aren't we talking about a decision of a large national site? One with (I assume) a team of lawyers telling them they need to abide to their rules?

But even for local leagues I think this is the correct call when there is doubt. Especially when it leaves a bad taste.
Typically that team of lawyers is looking to minimize risk rather than get into the messy business of what is fair and just. I get it. Align to the NFL stats and move on. But at the league level, that isn't a decision. They've effectively chosen to do nothing - which I understand.

In my final this has meant that one team had 9 starters and the other had 7. Struggling with what is fair or just about that.
 

Ardbeg4ever

Footballguy
I don't think what is typical for when a game goes final in FF is applicable in this case. That is to allow a season to move along and bot allow a stat change 6 weeks after the game to change an outcome that has already been moved on from.

That is not the case here for a FF LCG. There is no reason to hurry the decision or close it off. This is the final game and in the middle of a situation that has never happened before. It demands at least looking at options to see what the consensus of your league believes is right for your league.
Aren't we talking about a decision of a large national site? One with (I assume) a team of lawyers telling them they need to abide to their rules?

But even for local leagues I think this is the correct call when there is doubt. Especially when it leaves a bad taste.
Typically that team of lawyers is looking to minimize risk rather than get into the messy business of what is fair and just. I get it. Align to the NFL stats and move on. But at the league level, that isn't a decision. They've effectively chosen to do nothing - which I understand.

In my final this has meant that one team had 9 starters and the other had 7. Struggling with what is fair or just about that.
It's not fair but it is consistent, which IMO is more important.
BTW, I love your "Adventure" avatar!
 

habsfan

Footballguy
I don't think what is typical for when a game goes final in FF is applicable in this case. That is to allow a season to move along and bot allow a stat change 6 weeks after the game to change an outcome that has already been moved on from.

That is not the case here for a FF LCG. There is no reason to hurry the decision or close it off. This is the final game and in the middle of a situation that has never happened before. It demands at least looking at options to see what the consensus of your league believes is right for your league.
Aren't we talking about a decision of a large national site? One with (I assume) a team of lawyers telling them they need to abide to their rules?

But even for local leagues I think this is the correct call when there is doubt. Especially when it leaves a bad taste.
Typically that team of lawyers is looking to minimize risk rather than get into the messy business of what is fair and just. I get it. Align to the NFL stats and move on. But at the league level, that isn't a decision. They've effectively chosen to do nothing - which I understand.

In my final this has meant that one team had 9 starters and the other had 7. Struggling with what is fair or just about that.
It's not fair but it is consistent, which IMO is more important.
BTW, I love your "Adventure" avatar!
Thank-you!

If I ran a national fantasy hosting site I would absolutely stay out of the trenches on this. It makes absolute sense.

But when you have Christmas dinner with some of these people and pints with the rest, I feel like you need to set the bar a little higher than consistent.
 

menobrown

Footballguy
I see no relation between the NFL not counting the points and fantasy football and don't think one has anything to do with the other. Two totally different things in this situation.
All leagues are big on official stats. This is a game of stats. If the game is considered a no contest and no stats will ever officialy exist then I'm massively against using stats that won't technically ever exist to decide outcomes of a stat based game.

As NE Revival well states, reasonable minds can disagree.
 

BearsFan4Life

Footballguy
I am looking for some thoughts on how to proceed.

Our league has been completely silent since Monday.

I was up 29 pts and done vs his Chase in a standard scoring league where Chase hasn't reached 29 all year, and had 0 at the time (which doesn't mean he couldn't blow up from that point on). My opponent has not conceded and I don't want to reach out to split the pot as I feel I would have finally won a Championship (5th straight year in the final - lost previous 4), but I don't exactly feel right claiming the title. No matter if we put a bench player in Chase's spot or use his season average, I would still win.

Thoughts on what to do?
 

Ardbeg4ever

Footballguy
I am looking for some thoughts on how to proceed.

Our league has been completely silent since Monday.

I was up 29 pts and done vs his Chase in a standard scoring league where Chase hasn't reached 29 all year, and had 0 at the time (which doesn't mean he couldn't blow up from that point on). My opponent has not conceded and I don't want to reach out to split the pot as I feel I would have finally won a Championship (5th straight year in the final - lost previous 4), but I don't exactly feel right claiming the title. No matter if we put a bench player in Chase's spot or use his season average, I would still win.

Thoughts on what to do?
Since you are already up, if the game isn't replayed, how can you not win? Splitting to me is only if one team was ahead, but the other team had a reasonable to certain chance to overtake him. I'd just wait it out, congrats on your championship!
 

Dickie Dunn

Footballguy
Down by 37 in a 2 QB league in which my two QBs are Burrow and Allen. Both teams had three players left, but obviously mine were the two highest scoring.

Oh yeah … and this was only the semifinals. (We still play Week 18, for whatever reason.)

So as the No. 1 seed, I’m out because neither of my QBs got a chance to play.

Tough situation, I know … but that doesn’t make it suck any less. I’ve been in this league for more than 25 years.
 

jm192

Footballguy
I've got a FREE Dynasty league.

I was down 40 going into MNF
I had Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Logan Wilson vs his Mixon/Diggs.
Short story, I was down by 40, but had 4 guys going in the Finals vs his 2. Game super close.

I've won it the last 2 years. REALLY wanted the 3-peat. Part of me wants to ask about using week 18 stats. Part of me thinks the smart decision is to concede to pick 1 spot sooner in the rookie draft.

Thoughts?
 

Stat Correction

Footballguy
I am looking for some thoughts on how to proceed.

Our league has been completely silent since Monday.

I was up 29 pts and done vs his Chase in a standard scoring league where Chase hasn't reached 29 all year, and had 0 at the time (which doesn't mean he couldn't blow up from that point on). My opponent has not conceded and I don't want to reach out to split the pot as I feel I would have finally won a Championship (5th straight year in the final - lost previous 4), but I don't exactly feel right claiming the title. No matter if we put a bench player in Chase's spot or use his season average, I would still win.

Thoughts on what to do?
This one seems simple enough: Let your opponent accrue Chase's week 18 points to his week 17 total. Unless he gets over 29 points, you are still the winner, and went the extra mile to assure that.
 

Stat Correction

Footballguy
I've got a FREE Dynasty league.

I was down 40 going into MNF
I had Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Logan Wilson vs his Mixon/Diggs.
Short story, I was down by 40, but had 4 guys going in the Finals vs his 2. Game super close.

I've won it the last 2 years. REALLY wanted the 3-peat. Part of me wants to ask about using week 18 stats. Part of me thinks the smart decision is to concede to pick 1 spot sooner in the rookie draft.

Thoughts?
Asking about week 18 points for all players involved, added to the week 17 scores of both teams ENTERING Monday night football, seems the fair and equitable solution.
 

menobrown

Footballguy
I've got a FREE Dynasty league.

I was down 40 going into MNF
I had Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Logan Wilson vs his Mixon/Diggs.
Short story, I was down by 40, but had 4 guys going in the Finals vs his 2. Game super close.

I've won it the last 2 years. REALLY wanted the 3-peat. Part of me wants to ask about using week 18 stats. Part of me thinks the smart decision is to concede to pick 1 spot sooner in the rookie draft.

Thoughts?
If it was me and I wanted to play week 18 and try to win I'd just ask him. Frame it in a way it's his choice that you'll respect, that it did not feel right the way it ended for anyone and you could get an extra week of rooting interest for some players. If he says he'd rather the stats stood I'd say congrats and move on.
 

Deamon

Footballguy
I am looking for some thoughts on how to proceed.

Our league has been completely silent since Monday.

I was up 29 pts and done vs his Chase in a standard scoring league where Chase hasn't reached 29 all year, and had 0 at the time (which doesn't mean he couldn't blow up from that point on). My opponent has not conceded and I don't want to reach out to split the pot as I feel I would have finally won a Championship (5th straight year in the final - lost previous 4), but I don't exactly feel right claiming the title. No matter if we put a bench player in Chase's spot or use his season average, I would still win.

Thoughts on what to do?
Finally an easy one haha.
Ask him if he would like to concede, or give him other alternatives. Mention to him that you don't want to win it because of an injury, and that he can take a season average of Chase's points, OR use Week 18 points towards week 17. He will obviously take week 18 points option and be happy that you reached out and gave him that option. He will still lose. You will win the final, all the money, and be able to feel good about doing so.
 

Lansdowne

Footballguy
The finals in my league came down to MNF with the trailing team having Stefon Diggs playing. The commish would’ve won the matchup as is with the BUF-CIN game cancelled, but he decided instead he’s going to count Diggs’ stats for Week 18 (while obviously not counting Diggs’ total for Week 17), which gives his opponent a fighting chance. I thought it was good sportsmanship doing that when it would’ve been easy to just accept the results and take the title. The trailing guy still needs like 100 yards and 2 TDs from Diggs in order to win, but given the situation and that Diggs had a 145/3 performance against the Pats just two years back, I would say it’s very possible, if not likely.
 

renesauz

IBL Representative
I offered to concede the final I am in if things don't resume this week. 40 points down with Mixon to play vs his Allen and Davis. The opponent was clearly going to win.

In another league, the scores are basically tied with the guy narrowly behind by 0.something of a point with Tee Higgins in play. His opponent also offered to concede if it isn't resumed, I'd have been less keen to offer it up in that instance but respect the decision either way.
We don't know who would win. Probability is not a guarantee. Thats why the games are played. You cannot predict injuries as we see from this game. I am not hoping injury on anyone, but had it been Allen who was injured and had to leave the game, then it is very likely that Davis' numbers would suffer. No guarantee you wouldn't win your game.
Com on man. Anytime you need a career game from your guy vs the other player guys to virtually sit out.....you're just being obtuse
 

zamboni

Footballguy
we will take the stats from their first playoff game. It's super easy, the game gets played and we have an actual winner.
I hadn’t thought of this. It would delay the title crown, but would at least reflect actual performance and all the Bengals/Bills should be playing unless injured in week 18.
After discussing with my league members, we have decided to use players' points from the Bills/Bengals first playoff game to swap in for week 17. We go through week 18, so IMO it's the cleanest way possible to substitute for those missing week 17 points. Thankfully both the Bills and Bengals are playoff teams - it would have been a lot messier if one or both of them were out of it.
 

renesauz

IBL Representative
we will take the stats from their first playoff game. It's super easy, the game gets played and we have an actual winner.
I hadn’t thought of this. It would delay the title crown, but would at least reflect actual performance and all the Bengals/Bills should be playing unless injured in week 18.
After discussing with my league members, we have decided to use players' points from the Bills/Bengals first playoff game to swap in for week 17. We go through week 18, so IMO it's the cleanest way possible to substitute for those missing week 17 points. Thankfully both the Bills and Bengals are playoff teams - it would have been a lot messier if one or both of them were out of it.
Wouldn't like this in leagues that ended week 17, but for your league this is reasonable and sensible. Only caveat would be to allow a sub should one of those guys get hurt this week
 

Mitchie

Footballguy
I see no relation between the NFL not counting the points and fantasy football and don't think one has anything to do with the other. Two totally different things in this situation.
All leagues are big on official stats. This is a game of stats. If the game is considered a no contest and no stats will ever officialy exist then I'm massively against using stats that won't technically ever exist to decide outcomes of a stat based game.

As NE Revival well states, reasonable minds can disagree.
I see why some people are coming at it from that perspective but it's wrong imo. Have to approach it from a fairness perspective and have flexibility to come up with a fair solution for a situation that could not have possibly been anticipated
 

zamboni

Footballguy
we will take the stats from their first playoff game. It's super easy, the game gets played and we have an actual winner.
I hadn’t thought of this. It would delay the title crown, but would at least reflect actual performance and all the Bengals/Bills should be playing unless injured in week 18.
After discussing with my league members, we have decided to use players' points from the Bills/Bengals first playoff game to swap in for week 17. We go through week 18, so IMO it's the cleanest way possible to substitute for those missing week 17 points. Thankfully both the Bills and Bengals are playoff teams - it would have been a lot messier if one or both of them were out of it.
Wouldn't like this in leagues that ended week 17, but for your league this is reasonable and sensible. Only caveat would be to allow a sub should one of those guys get hurt this week
We've discussed this sub issue and am giving it some thought. My initial thought is that any of the Bills/Bengals could have gotten hurt in week 17, and in that case, you wouldn't have been able to substitute points then. This makes it as close to a pure cut and paste as you can do, and thus minimize the "bells and whistles".
 
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JohnnyU

Footballguy
In two of the three leagues I commish the finalist have agreed to using week 18 stats for the Bills and Bengals players (only) to change the week 17 stats for those players. We will allow substitutions and this is just for bills / bengals players. If you feel someone may get benched, then pickup a backup player. Bills replacing Bills and Bengals replacing Bengals, same position for same position.

In the league where I was in the finals and even though I was down 6 points with Josh Allen, Joe Mixon, and Gabe Davis to go and he had none, the other team offered that I concede the championship but we will split the money. I am bitter about that, knowing I would have won the championship with 99.9999999% certainty, but for the sake of the league and to move on, I agreed. I just want to put this nightmare to bed.
 

zamboni

Footballguy
In the league where I was in the finals and even though I was down 6 points with Josh Allen, Joe Mixon, and Gabe Davis to go and he had none, the other team offered that I concede the championship but we will split the money. I am bitter about that, knowing I would have won the championship with 99.9999999% certainty, but for the sake of the league and to move on, I agreed. I just want to put this nightmare to bed.
IMO that's pretty rough/unreasonable of that other owner. If that were me, I wouldn't feel like a won the championship. Kudos to you though for agreeing to it for the sake of harmony - just make sure to put an asterisk next to your name in the league archives.
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
In the league where I was in the finals and even though I was down 6 points with Josh Allen, Joe Mixon, and Gabe Davis to go and he had none, the other team offered that I concede the championship but we will split the money. I am bitter about that, knowing I would have won the championship with 99.9999999% certainty, but for the sake of the league and to move on, I agreed. I just want to put this nightmare to bed.
IMO that's pretty rough/unreasonable of that other owner. If that were me, I wouldn't feel like a won the championship. Kudos to you though for agreeing to it for the sake of harmony - just make sure to put an asterisk next to your name in the league archives.
I agree, there is no way I could feel good about that title if the shoe was on the other foot, but it isn't and I hope I'm ready to move on. I have to, because I'm the commissioner.
 

zamboni

Footballguy
In the league where I was in the finals and even though I was down 6 points with Josh Allen, Joe Mixon, and Gabe Davis to go and he had none, the other team offered that I concede the championship but we will split the money. I am bitter about that, knowing I would have won the championship with 99.9999999% certainty, but for the sake of the league and to move on, I agreed. I just want to put this nightmare to bed.
IMO that's pretty rough/unreasonable of that other owner. If that were me, I wouldn't feel like a won the championship. Kudos to you though for agreeing to it for the sake of harmony - just make sure to put an asterisk next to your name in the league archives.
I agree, there is no way I could feel good about that title if the shoe was on the other foot, but it isn't and I hope I'm ready to move on. I have to, because I'm the commissioner.
It's all hindsight, but as commissioner there and party to the championship, I would have recused myself, and asked the other owner to do so as well, and have the rest of the league come up with a reasonable solution. Assuming you play with reasonable people, I would think that the rest of your league view it as a tarnished title.
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
In the league where I was in the finals and even though I was down 6 points with Josh Allen, Joe Mixon, and Gabe Davis to go and he had none, the other team offered that I concede the championship but we will split the money. I am bitter about that, knowing I would have won the championship with 99.9999999% certainty, but for the sake of the league and to move on, I agreed. I just want to put this nightmare to bed.
IMO that's pretty rough/unreasonable of that other owner. If that were me, I wouldn't feel like a won the championship. Kudos to you though for agreeing to it for the sake of harmony - just make sure to put an asterisk next to your name in the league archives.
I agree, there is no way I could feel good about that title if the shoe was on the other foot, but it isn't and I hope I'm ready to move on. I have to, because I'm the commissioner.
It's all hindsight, but as commissioner there and party to the championship, I would have recused myself, and asked the other owner to do so as well, and have the rest of the league come up with a reasonable solution. Assuming you play with reasonable people, I would think that the rest of your league view it as a tarnished title.
It's over, so no need to do anything else.
 

KingPrawn

Footballguy
In our league that I commish we are using week 18 stats for the Bills and Bengals players scores in week 17. Once the games are complete I will go in and adjust week 17 scores.

Our championship game and 3rd place game are all ready determined. Only thing left in doubt is the toilet bowl where a total of 7 Bills/Bengals players are involved. I gave the option to the two owners that if they want to work out another solution that they both agree to I'm fine with that as well. But otherwise we will use this weeks player scores.
 

psychobillies

Footballguy
What are the scenarios that would make these teams consider resting their starters? Am I wrong in thinking that even if KC wins that they both have something to play for?
 

Ardbeg4ever

Footballguy
I'm curious what people would do if the game was played until 5 min left in 4th quarter and the team with1 player in the game was down by 1 or 2 points?
 

Fruitbat

Footballguy
In our 29 year dynasty league among longtime friends, team A was down 10 going into MNF. they had Burrow/Diggs/Knox vs Team B who had no players left. When game was called, team A had a slight lead.

Our league has a board of 4 "commissioners" with voting power. One of them is in the title game. The other 3 are leaning to call the game final with zeros for the 3 players, but give team B the option to concede. Team B has hinted that he would concede.
 
I'm curious what people would do if the game was played until 5 min left in 4th quarter and the team with1 player in the game was down by 1 or 2 points?
I'm curious what people would do if the NFL had forced Monday's game to be played to a finish and the coaches said "okay" and put in 11 volunteers to take a knee on every play except the sort of onside kick to start the second half. Glad that didn't happen for a lot of real-life reasons, but in some fantasy footways ways it might just a well have been what happened.
 

steelers1080

Footballguy
In my league basically 1 person won if the stats from the 1st quarter counted and the other person won if the stats were cancelled. We decided to use the week 18 stats and just input them for the Bills and Bengals players since we don't play FF in week 18.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
I'm curious what people would do if the game was played until 5 min left in 4th quarter and the team with1 player in the game was down by 1 or 2 points?
My general standard would be "What was most likely to happen?" but with a wide margin of error. So if it was pretty clear who was going to win, give that team the pot. If there was any legitimate doubt, split it. Maybe if it was somewhere in between, where one team was likely to win but not guaranteed, you split a weighted pot (eg, 75/25).

In the scenario you're describing, it sounds like it could easily have gone either way, so I'd say split it 50/50
 

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