FBGs vs Kasparov- chess game- Draw agreed to (1 Viewer)

[AAABatteries]

Take a look at this game everybody.

http://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=3303192

Have to say I was hoping for a bigger win. I guess we'll take it.

 

[timschochet]

Good morning, g6 has been played.

 

[timschochet]

Kaspy plays Ne4, attacking the bishop on d6 and threatening all sorts of crap.

We have to play Be7. Agreed?

 

[timschochet]

As expected, white is attacking and all we can do is make sure our defense is solid- otherwise we're going to lose the game right now.

 

[McGarnicle]

We are being threatened with all sorts of crap

 

[derek245583]

Kaspy plays Ne4, attacking the bishop on d6 and threatening all sorts of crap.

We have to play Be7. Agreed?

I am going to try and generate discussion...

Tim, by suggesting we move the bishop, are you implying we aren't ok with trading a bishop for a Knight? Arent we already defending the Bishop? This is also a general question....I have no preference on knight vs bishop, but maybe I have been wrong my whole life.

Bb7 a bad move? I think he goes Bh5, we move the rook and then trade the above B for N.

Am I totally off base here?

 

[hagmania]

What resource/where do I start reading if I want to learn?

Do you know how the pieces move and their relative value?

I know the movement and notation and the 1, 3, 5, 9 "points" that lots of stuff start you out on yeah.

Buy this book. Play through the examples on a board. Set up the exercises on a board and solve them Take your time. When you're done, go through it again. Commit it to memory. Make it second nature. It will take you a couple of months, but you'll be much better for it.

http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Tactics-Batsford-Book/dp/0713489340

Thanks.

I've never taken the time to learn theory, I always just want to attack my opponent's Queen. I'm a big rube and would move a5 in our current situation.

 

[timschochet]

Kaspy plays Ne4, attacking the bishop on d6 and threatening all sorts of crap.

We have to play Be7. Agreed?

I am going to try and generate discussion...Tim, by suggesting we move the bishop, are you implying we aren't ok with trading a bishop for a Knight? Arent we already defending the Bishop? This is also a general question....I have no preference on knight vs bishop, but maybe I have been wrong my whole life.

Bb7 a bad move? I think he goes Bh5, we move the rook and then trade the above B for N.

Am I totally off base here?

All good questions. But take a look at the pawns around our king. Because we were forced to play g6, they're all on white squares. That means our black squares are weak, and we need to d fend them. Without the black squared bishop it will be very difficult to do so. Eventually he will put a bishop on h6 and his queen on f6 and it won't matter how many other pieces he loses to get them there- because once that happens the game is over.

So to prevent this we need to retain the dark squared bishop to play on f8 later if we have to. Hope that makes sense.

 

[timschochet]

Your instincts aren't wrong Hagmania. Depending on what white does I want to follow Be7 with a5 and Ba6. As per the game I posted.

 

[John Bender]

Really I'd be looking for a way to trade off my light squared bishop here and retaining the dark square bishop (especially not trading it for a night).

I'm way behind but we've already moved it once to retain it. You can't let the ds Bishop go without some compensation.

(this is more a response to Derek's discussion)

 

[hagmania]

Seeing a "properly" played match has already been beneficial (ordered that book last night, about to get crackin') - I look at the board and see different sightlines and pockets of controlled board space. Actually looks like a strategic battle as opposed to what I imagine to be the board chaos of novice matches.

 

[timschochet]

So any objection to Bb7? We really have no choice IMO

 

[John Bender]

Seeing a "properly" played match has already been beneficial (ordered that book last night, about to get crackin') - I look at the board and see different sightlines and pockets of controlled board space. Actually looks like a strategic battle as opposed to what I imagine to be the board chaos of novice matches.

I set Mcgarnicle up w a long PM about where to start relearning the game. If he still has it, maybe he can forward it over to you. I had to delete all my PMs due to a stupid powerball pool.I also have many chess ebooks I can share privately.

 

[timschochet]

Really I'd be looking for a way to trade off my light squared bishop here and retaining the dark square bishop (especially not trading it for a night).

I'm way behind but we've already moved it once to retain it. You can't let the ds Bishop go without some compensation.

(this is more a response to Derek's discussion)

John if you looked at the game I posted its exactly that idea: a5, Ba6, and after he moves his queen Bxe2 allows Nxd4. I like this idea unless he moves his queen in the meantime in which case we go back to Bb7 as originally conceived.

 

[hagmania]

Yeah, I'll try not to dilute the greatness in here. Just a word of thanks.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

Seeing a "properly" played match has already been beneficial (ordered that book last night, about to get crackin') - I look at the board and see different sightlines and pockets of controlled board space. Actually looks like a strategic battle as opposed to what I imagine to be the board chaos of novice matches.

I set Mcgarnicle up w a long PM about where to start relearning the game. If he still has it, maybe he can forward it over to you. I had to delete all my PMs due to a stupid powerball pool.I also have many chess ebooks I can share privately.

I'd take that PM too McGarnicle!

 

[Aerial Assault]

So any objection to Bb7? We really have no choice IMO

Nope; I wanted to move there originally

 

[Green and Gold]

If you played the queen to H4, do you think he'd notice that you have checkmate on your next move?

I think that's a good bet.

Do it. He'll have to move one of his king side pawns, and you can always retreat the queen to its current position.

If he does something else and you find you're in a compromised position, just flip the board over in a rage and storm off. Draw.

(For this and more helpful tips, subscribe to my chess newsletter.)

This raises a question I've wondered about -- is it a disadvantage to move one of those pawns in front of the king? Forget back-rank mates for a second, assume you're only protecting from a frontal attack.A lot of times I'm not sure if I'm making a mistake pushing those pawns forward.

Like most things in chess, you have to look at the situation. For general king safety, it's a good idea to leave them alone outside of h3 (white) or h6 (black) to protect the back rank or kick off a pinning bishop. It's usually safer to push them once the queens are off the board, but you have to really evaluate the position and decide why you want to push those pawns. For example, you may want to attack a fianchetto structure by pushing your H pawn, or prevent your opponent's mating idea (like a queen+bishop or queen+knight battery).

In the King's Indian defense as Black one of the classic plans is to lock up the center and push your king-side pawns, assuming white castles into it. Black's exposed king is a weakness, but the threats to White's king is more immediate. Black's plan is to not give White enough time to take advantage of that weakness.

So, to answer your question, it depends.

G&G, we need your help!!

Sorry Tim, I keep meaning to come in here and get into this but I'm up to my eyeballs in RL stuff. I'll try and get up to speed and help out.

 

[timschochet]

The other reason that we need the Bishop on e7 is to protect the g5 square- otherwise white threatens Ng5 and Qh3.

 

[timschochet]

Sorry I meant Be7. That should be our next move.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Wait, Be7 is my move here. Not Bb7. Stronger defense and we should have put the bishop there originally partly for this reason.

 

[timschochet]

Wait, Be7 is my move here. Not Bb7. Stronger defense and we should have put the bishop there originally partly for this reason.

Agreed. It was a typo on my part. But I think Bd6 was fine. He had to play Ne4 to get us to e7, and Im not sure that knight is doing much there.

 

[timschochet]

So we're going with Be7.

 

[timschochet]

Now I anticipate Bh6, and then after Re8 f4, continuing the attack. That's when we play a5.

Let's see if this is right.

 

[John Bender]

Really I'd be looking for a way to trade off my light squared bishop here and retaining the dark square bishop (especially not trading it for a night).

I'm way behind but we've already moved it once to retain it. You can't let the ds Bishop go without some compensation.

(this is more a response to Derek's discussion)

John if you looked at the game I posted its exactly that idea: a5, Ba6, and after he moves his queen Bxe2 allows Nxd4. I like this idea unless he moves his queen in the meantime in which case we go back to Bb7 as originally conceived.

Yeah. You and I are on the same page here. Honestly, the only time I've been able to look is when Mcgarnicle posts an updated board. It's not something I'm finding the time to keep track of myself here.

So I'll chime in when we get the board pics,but having seen nothing beyond the first 4 moves, that's my take.

Also, I think you said it but u agree with whomever said our bishop on f8 would be a good home for it if we're given the time to place it there.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Just my opinion, but I really think you should stop looking at games now that you're out of the standard opening.

 

[John Bender]

Just my opinion, but I really think you should stop looking at games now that you're out of the standard opening.

Yes, if this is happening, it can't be.

It shouldn't have been allowed during the opening either. We have 20 people here, if we can't figure out how to play a Nimzo Indian collectively, we should just switch this to a checkers game. I know opinions vary with that. Yeah it's just for fun, but I want to use my brain, not my reference skills.

 

[timschochet]

Just my opinion, but I really think you should stop looking at games now that you're out of the standard opening.

Theyre aren't any to look at anyhow. The last one was part of the opening and it gave us some ideas for the middlegame (like a5) but we're already past it. We're on our own.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Agree on stop using reference materials already

 

[timschochet]

Just my opinion, but I really think you should stop looking at games now that you're out of the standard opening.

Yes, if this is happening, it can't be. It shouldn't have been allowed during the opening either. We have 20 people here, if we can't figure out how to play a Nimzo Indian collectively, we should just switch this to a checkers game. I know opinions vary with that. Yeah it's just for fun, but I want to use my brain, not my reference skills.

I thought it was OK so long as we were reasoning out each move, which I've tried to do. Anyhow it's done.

 

[Green and Gold]

I think my commentary is too late, but here goes. I normally would not want to give away my dsb at this point with g3 played, but the more I look at this position the more I am concerned about all the pins that are about to happen. If we play Be7, we'll likely see:

Bh6 Re8

Ba4 Bb7

Rac1 Rac8

Rc2

White has all the initiative, about to have double rooks on the open c file and a nasty pin on c6. I'd almost choose to give up the dsb to avoid that and do something like Bb7 or even a5 followed by Ba6 (likely after exchanging dsb for knight). Gains space on the queen side and forcing the exchange of wsb, so white doesn't have the bishop pair. Moving pieces around my board, I like that position a lot better than what I see after Be7.

Edit: Note that I'm not saying Be7 is bad, just my personal preference on playing a position. Also, Ba6 isn't forcing the exchange of wsb, but if he decides not do exchange it you have a very nice diagonal to sit on.

 

[John Bender]

Just my opinion, but I really think you should stop looking at games now that you're out of the standard opening.

Yes, if this is happening, it can't be. It shouldn't have been allowed during the opening either. We have 20 people here, if we can't figure out how to play a Nimzo Indian collectively, we should just switch this to a checkers game. I know opinions vary with that. Yeah it's just for fun, but I want to use my brain, not my reference skills.

I thought it was OK so long as we were reasoning out each move, which I've tried to do. Anyhow it's done.

No sweat. Not sure there's a right answer anyway - just opinion.

 

[timschochet]

I think my commentary is too late, but here goes. I normally would not want to give away my dsb at this point with g3 played, but the more I look at this position the more I am concerned about all the pins that are about to happen. If we play Be7, we'll likely see:

Bh6 Re8

Ba4 Bb7

Rac1 Rac8

Rc2

White has all the initiative, about to have double rooks on the open c file and a nasty pin on c6. I'd almost choose to give up the dsb to avoid that and do something like Bb7 or even a5 followed by Ba6 (likely after exchanging dsb for knight). Gains space on the queen side and forcing the exchange of wsb, so white doesn't have the bishop pair. Moving pieces around my board, I like that position a lot better than what I see after Be7.

Edit: Note that I'm not saying Be7 is bad, just my personal preference on playing a position. Also, Ba6 isn't forcing the exchange of wsb, but if he decides not do exchange it you have a very nice diagonal to sit on.

Too late. I'm well aware of the c file. I did NOT consider Ba4 though. Is there any move besides Bb7 as a response to Ba4 though? You're right that's really passive.

 

[Green and Gold]

Alright, I take it back. I looked at the pins further and saw that it really doesn't have a lot of bite, in the end. After protecting the knight with the queen as black and watching white double the rooks, a simple a6 followed by b5 will kick off the bishop and that pin is history. Still looks fine for black.

 

[timschochet]

Dammit let's hope he doesn't play Ba4. ####.

Of course he will, he's a ####### master. He won't miss that.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Now I anticipate Bh6, and then after Re8 f4, continuing the attack. That's when we play a5.

Let's see if this is right.

We can meet f4 with f5. His attack isn't going anywhere.

 

[timschochet]

Alright, I take it back. I looked at the pins further and saw that it really doesn't have a lot of bite, in the end. After protecting the knight with the queen as black and watching white double the queens, a simple a6 followed by b5 will kick off the bishop and that pin is history. Still looks fine for black.

Whew are you sure? I thought I had just blundered away the game.

 

[Green and Gold]

I think my commentary is too late, but here goes. I normally would not want to give away my dsb at this point with g3 played, but the more I look at this position the more I am concerned about all the pins that are about to happen. If we play Be7, we'll likely see:

Bh6 Re8

Ba4 Bb7

Rac1 Rac8

Rc2

White has all the initiative, about to have double rooks on the open c file and a nasty pin on c6. I'd almost choose to give up the dsb to avoid that and do something like Bb7 or even a5 followed by Ba6 (likely after exchanging dsb for knight). Gains space on the queen side and forcing the exchange of wsb, so white doesn't have the bishop pair. Moving pieces around my board, I like that position a lot better than what I see after Be7.

Edit: Note that I'm not saying Be7 is bad, just my personal preference on playing a position. Also, Ba6 isn't forcing the exchange of wsb, but if he decides not do exchange it you have a very nice diagonal to sit on.

Too late.I'm well aware of the c file. I did NOT consider Ba4 though. Is there any move besides Bb7 as a response to Ba4 though? You're right that's really passive.

Bd7 is the other option, it may be better because it kills the pin right away. I liked Bb7 just because that diagonal is clear of pawns and it helps prevent d6 down the road, but it may be too optimistic on my part. In fact, looking at Bd7 I'm liking it a bit better now. It feels like we have more options after that. Can play Bf8 to trade dsb off and have a reasonable game.

 

[Green and Gold]

Alright, I take it back. I looked at the pins further and saw that it really doesn't have a lot of bite, in the end. After protecting the knight with the queen as black and watching white double the queens, a simple a6 followed by b5 will kick off the bishop and that pin is history. Still looks fine for black.

Whew are you sure? I thought I had just blundered away the game.

Yeah, I don't think Be7 is a blunder at all. Unless I've missed something I think we're ok, but talking about his potential next moves isn't a bad idea.

 

[derek245583]

Kaspy plays Ne4, attacking the bishop on d6 and threatening all sorts of crap.

We have to play Be7. Agreed?

I am going to try and generate discussion...Tim, by suggesting we move the bishop, are you implying we aren't ok with trading a bishop for a Knight? Arent we already defending the Bishop? This is also a general question....I have no preference on knight vs bishop, but maybe I have been wrong my whole life.

Bb7 a bad move? I think he goes Bh5, we move the rook and then trade the above B for N.

Am I totally off base here?

All good questions.But take a look at the pawns around our king. Because we were forced to play g6, they're all on white squares. That means our black squares are weak, and we need to d fend them. Without the black squared bishop it will be very difficult to do so. Eventually he will put a bishop on h6 and his queen on f6 and it won't matter how many other pieces he loses to get them there- because once that happens the game is over.

So to prevent this we need to retain the dark squared bishop to play on f8 later if we have to. Hope that makes sense.

Makes a ton of sense actually.

Ordered that book Bob suggested already.

I have always played, just never taught anything

 

[dancingbones]

I agree that Bh6 is coming down the pike here.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Bh6 is a no-brainer.

 

[derek245583]

Bh6 is a no-brainer.

Re8 our only option? right?

 

[timschochet]

A bit unexpected- White plays Bb3!

OK, why?

 

[derek245583]

wut

 

[derek245583]

oh, b3

 

[timschochet]

First thought is that he's setting up for control of the c file. If so he plans on Bh6 and then Rc1. Either he doesn't see the possible Ba4 pin (doubtful) or he's decided that it's not worth it and his bishop is better on c2 attacking the knight.

A defensive strategy in response would be to play Bb7. An offensive strategy would be to play a5 and Ba6.

 

[hagmania]

Spoiler

I would guess he went Bb3 because he anticipates a5.

Like so

Bb3 a5

Bc4 ?

 

[SacramentoBob]

13. Bb3 was the move?

There's an obvious threat to win a pawn there.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Nevermind I forgot about Ne4.

14. Bb3 was the move?

Maybe I should read the summary in the first post.