FBGs vs Kasparov- chess game- Draw agreed to (2 Viewers)

[SacramentoBob]

It's a move that maintains some imbalance in the position.

If Nxc3, that preserves the IQP position and trades off a set of minor pieces, but at the cost of aiding his development slightly.

If bxc3, that switches to a hanging pawn structure for White.

If we just retreat to d6 and he captures on d5, we have a pretty boring symmetric position with very little risk. I doubt he captures on d5 though. Bd6 is fine.

 

[timschochet]

Look if he's not going to capture on d5 if we play Bd6, then I done see why we should aid his development with Nxc3.

But before we agree on Bd6 I do think we should look at White's options after that move.

 

[timschochet]

If Bd6, the two most common responses by white is to castle (in which case we castle too) or Ne4. Now what does Ne4 do and how do we respond to it?

 

[timschochet]

Ne4 forces us to give up our bishop or move it again.

 

[timschochet]

It looks to me like after Bd6 Ne4 we are at a disadvantage. Play these two moves and then look at the board. White's pieces are all developed. Black is still looking for ways to develop its white squared bishop. Black has to move his black squared bishop AGAIN after just moving it unless we're willing to give up the bishop pair. White's isolated pawn, which is a detriment in the endgame, is an asset in the middlegame because he's going to try and push it forward.

Now maybe a GM or IM can turn all of this to his advantage but we don't have those skills. Wouldn't Bd7 be safer?

 

[SacramentoBob]

After Ne4 Be7, White's pieces don't stand very well. There's no good place to put the dark square bishop, and he can't move the e2-knight without hanging the pawn on d4. His development is a bit awkward actually.

 

[dancingbones]

What does anyone think of this sequence?

... Bxc3+

10. bxc3 Nxc3

11. Nxc3 Qxd4

Trading a piece for 2 pawns & 1 left alone on the a file?

 

[SacramentoBob]

We would be giving up most of our developed pieces to lose material for no compensation. Pieces are worth a lot more than pawns in the middlegame.

 

[dancingbones]

What does anyone think of this sequence?

... Bxc3+

10. bxc3 Nxc3

11. Nxc3 Qxd4

Trading a piece for 2 pawns & 1 left alone on the a file?

Or it might also go

... Bxc3+

10. Nxc3 Nxd4

11. Qa4+ Nc6

Leaving us up a pawn?

 

[dancingbones]

We would be giving up most of our developed pieces to lose material for no compensation. Pieces are worth a lot more than pawns in the middlegame.

So, bad idea then!

That's why I like this thread.

 

[timschochet]

After Ne4 Be7, White's pieces don't stand very well. There's no good place to put the dark square bishop, and he can't move the e2-knight without hanging the pawn on d4. His development is a bit awkward actually.

OK I trust your ability to read the board better than mine.

 

[timschochet]

In that case I vote Bd6. If he castles we castle. If he plays Ne4, we retreat the bishop again to e7.

Please vote.

 

[timschochet]

Keep in mind our focus remains keeping the isolated pawn on d4. We can't allow it to advance. Which means we need to control the d5 square, currently occupied by our knight.

So that means we're gonna want to play Bb7 after all.

 

[timschochet]

jeremy Silman (I know some of you don't like him but still...) wrote that for the middlegame you should picture where you want your pieces and then try to get them there.

In this position I think we want a bishop at b7, and rooks on c7 and c8. Not sure about the queen. Trade all our pieces on the c file and go to endgame. Voila!

 

[derek245583]

What does anyone think of this sequence?

... Bxc3+

10. bxc3 Nxc3

11. Nxc3 Qxd4

Trading a piece for 2 pawns & 1 left alone on the a file?

May as well add Qc2 to that string

 

[FBG26]

What does anyone think of this sequence?

... Bxc3+

10. bxc3 Nxc3

11. Nxc3 Qxd4

Trading a piece for 2 pawns & 1 left alone on the a file?

May as well add Qc2 to that string

Derek is right - if we start by capturing the knight with our bishop, it will probably play out just like that. But if you actually play it out and look at the board, it isn't pretty for black. I'd take a pic but my phone isn't working. I'd retreat to d6.

 

[dancingbones]

I think I like Ba5.

If he moves b4, then we go Bb6, which I think is a lovely place for our bishop - it would have a bead on the IQP on d4 & then the King eventually once he castles.

If he doesn't go b4, then we maintain the pin on the Knight until he castles or pushes his bishop to d2.

 

[timschochet]

I think I like Ba5.

If he moves b4, then we go Bb6, which I think is a lovely place for our bishop - it would have a bead on the IQP on d4 & then the King eventually once he castles.

If he doesn't go b4, then we maintain the pin on the Knight until he castles or pushes his bishop to d2.

Ba5 is not book. Until the book moves are done I don't think we should veer from them, because it usually means there is something TERRIBLY wrong with this move and Kaspy will find it. Book options are Bd6, Be7, and Nxc3.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Shouldn't be looking at reference material, IMO.

 

[timschochet]

Shouldn't be looking at reference material, IMO.

Weve been doing it since the start of the game. But it really doesn't matter since we've followed Sac Bob's lead anyhow. And we won't be able to for much longer.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Fischer would slap you. For your chess, even.

 

[timschochet]

Fischer would slap you. For your chess, even.

Well that's a given.

 

[dancingbones]

Pickles, what do you think is the best move here?

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Bd6 is what I'd prefer here.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I'm guessing after 9. ...Bd6 10. O-O O-O 11. Re1 and the game will have officially started.

 

[timschochet]

That's my thought too although white may play Ne4.

In any case we need to decide on Bd6. Any objections?

 

[timschochet]

All right we've been at this all day. Bd6 it is. It's about to get interesting.

 

[dancingbones]

So, we moved Bd6?

Anything happening?

 

[timschochet]

So, we moved Bd6?

Anything happening?

Yes. Not yet.

 

[SacramentoBob]

He resign yet?

 

[McGarnicle]

Board

 

[CletiusMaximus]

He resign yet?

More likely he's putting his watch on ...

 

[derek245583]

I think we are anticipating Ne4...

Why wouldn't he do Bb5?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Board

A dumb question...

Why would white agree to this line? Looking at the board, what has he got in return for the isolated pawn? I guess he has more mobility with the 2nd bishop, but is that it? If so, is that alone worth it?

 

[McGarnicle]

Board

A dumb question...Why would white agree to this line? Looking at the board, what has he got in return for the isolated pawn? I guess he has more mobility with the 2nd bishop, but is that it? If so, is that alone worth it?

He didn't agree to it. He got #####slapped. He's probably having trouble concentrating at work today, and questioning his manhood. I actually feel sorry for him.

 

[dancingbones]

I think we are anticipating Ne4...

Why wouldn't he do Bb5?

Or Nxd5

 

[timschochet]

I think we are anticipating Ne4...

Why wouldn't he do Bb5?

Or Nxd5

I worried about Nxd5 but as Sac Bob explained that gives us equality. He won't do it. And as I typed this white just castled. So I suggest we do the same. Thoughts?

 

[timschochet]

I don't think he'd play Bb5 but castling makes it irrelevant.

I think white wants to push the d pawn and attack. We want to stop that from happening. The other thing white may try to do, according to Bob, is attack our king maybe with the bishop sack on h7. We need to defend against that.

 

[timschochet]

So we're going to castle? Any objections?

 

[dancingbones]

So, does anyone like a bishop sac of our own?

... Bxh2+

11. Kxh2 Qh4+

12. Kg1 Nxd4

2 pawns for a bishop, would this get us somewhere?

 

[dancingbones]

So, does anyone like a bishop sac of our own?

... Bxh2+

11. Kxh2 Qh4+

12. Kg1 Nxd4

2 pawns for a bishop, would this get us somewhere?

Perhaps better contemplated after castling?

 

[dancingbones]

So, does anyone like a bishop sac of our own?

... Bxh2+

11. Kxh2 Qh4+

12. Kg1 Nxd4

2 pawns for a bishop, would this get us somewhere?

Perhaps better contemplated after castling?

Gotta castle before contemplating that I guess

... Bxh2+

11. Kxh2 Qh4+

12. Kg1 Nxd4

13. Nxd4 Qxd4

14. Bb5+ loses our Q

 

[timschochet]

dancingbones, the point of our opening was to get that isolated pawn and get it to the endgame. If we have an advantage that's it. I don't think we should be looking for tactical attacks that distract from that idea.

 

[culdeus]

I'm lazy. Has castling always been in the rules? It seems such a strange concept. Who came up with it?

 

[dancingbones]

Always looking for tactical attacks!

 

[timschochet]

Always looking for tactical attacks!

Nothing wrong with that but only if they get us something really tangible! Keep looking- for both sides.

 

[dancingbones]

Always looking for tactical attacks!

Nothing wrong with that but only if they get us something really tangible! Keep looking- for both sides.

Yes, agreed.

I don't think there is anything to do here but castle, btw.

 

[dancingbones]

I'm lazy. Has castling always been in the rules? It seems such a strange concept. Who came up with it?

Between 1200 and 1600 several laws emerged that drastically altered the game. Checkmate became a requirement to win; a player could not win by capturing all of the opponent's pieces. Stalemate was added, although the outcome has changed several times (see History of the stalemate rule). Pawns gained the option of moving two squares on their first move, and the en passant rule was a natural consequence of that new option. The king and rook acquired the right to castle (see Variations throughout history of castling for different versions of the rule).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_chess

 

[derek245583]

Ya, I would say go ahead and castle

Then the game starts right?

 

[timschochet]

OK I had previous agreement from many others on this so I am now castling.