Federal Appeals Court Rules New NC Voting Laws Intended To Discriminate (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

You'll love it when I suggest the place that issues them be open after normal business hours so prople do not have to take time off from work...

I mean, Walmart can find people to work for them after 6pm. Why should the local DMV (or whatever ID issuing office) not be able to?

I believe most DMVs are open on Saturdays, or at least Saturday mornings. If you work M-F, just get up and head down to the DMV on Saturday morning and get it taken care of. 

 

[massraider]

Do said lawmakers have immunity or can they be sued for civil rights infringements?

I mean, they aren't even being slick about it.

 

[Mario Kart]

If they are free and take under an hour to get I see no problem.

It takes about 77 minutes. 

 

[RandyDB]

You'll love it when I suggest the place that issues them be open after normal business hours so prople do not have to take time off from work...

I mean, Walmart can find people to work for them after 6pm. Why should the local DMV (or whatever ID issuing office) not be able to?

Hey, here's an idea. Put a DMV booth in every WalMart.

 

[Zow]

Do said lawmakers have immunity or can they be sued for civil rights infringements?

That's a good question and off the top of my head I don't know the answer. 

 

[Dr Oadi]

City of Charlotte has over 800k people and only 3 DMVs.  The DMV in the west-side of town, where most blacks live, has never had less than an hour long line outside at 8AM when I've visited it.  That is an hour wait to get into the queue to be seen.  The DMVs in this state are a nightmare.

Blacks can't wait in line for an hour every five years or so?  

 

[Dr Oadi]

You've apparently been here 4 years. You can't do 1 worthwhile post?

So they can't?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

In any event, for WI anyway, this will be appealed to the 7th Circuit Court in Chicago which upheld the same Voter ID law in 2014 (so I guess that makes it not racist after all).  It's not over by any stretch of the imagination.

We'll have to wait and see the makeup of the 7th Circuit panel on this case and then check which president appointed them to know whether they are sound jurists interested in upholding the law or shameless shills interested only in political gamesmanship.

 

[Desert_Power]

Blacks can't wait in line for an hour every five years or so?  

Reading comprehension not exactly your forte, eh?

 

[huthut]

It is not a coincidence that when voter ID laws go in effect, just by coincidence the DMVs on the poor side of town have their hours massively reduced as well. The purpose is to make it as difficult to vote as possible, so that a certain % of people give up and do not vote. If someone is determined enough they could find a way, but if you have jobs to work and kids to take care of, it is not necessarily as easy as it sounds from the safety of the message board and the financial security that these people do not often have.

 

[Mario Kart]

So they can't?

No one should have to do that in order to do something as simple as voting. If you don't think that is too much of a burden of others to have to do, then try it yourself first before requiring others to do so. I'd bet you'd complain if it took more than 5 minutes to complete your Starbucks order. 

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I mean, they aren't even being slick about it.

Nope.  I'd be shocked anyone's defending it, but there are a lot of Maxes out there in the world.

 

[sho nuff]

No one should have to do that in order to do something as simple as voting. If you don't think that is too much of a burden of others to have to do, then try it yourself first before requiring others to do so. I'd bet you'd complain if it took more than 5 minutes to complete your Starbucks order. 

I was pretty pissed that it took about 7 minutes for them to make my iced coffee last night...and the place wasn't even that busy.

 

[BassNBrew]

City of Charlotte has over 800k people and only 3 DMVs.  The DMV in the west-side of town, where most blacks live, has never had less than an hour long line outside at 8AM when I've visited it.  That is an hour wait to get into the queue to be seen.  The DMVs in this state are a nightmare.

It's the same in po-dunk Lincolnton.

 

[BassNBrew]

It is not a coincidence that when voter ID laws go in effect, just by coincidence the DMVs on the poor side of town have their hours massively reduced as well. The purpose is to make it as difficult to vote as possible, so that a certain % of people give up and do not vote. If someone is determined enough they could find a way, but if you have jobs to work and kids to take care of, it is not necessarily as easy as it sounds from the safety of the message board and the financial security that these people do not often have.

Line to vote was insanely long on the nice side of town and there's no DMV nearby.  It sucks for everyone pretty equally.

 

[huthut]

Line to vote was insanely long on the nice side of town and there's no DMV nearby.  It sucks for everyone pretty equally.

Just a quick google search, but it is not like it applies to every town with a DMV, just an overall trend that will lower the voting capabilities of minorities by making a bunch of steps in the process of voting a little more difficult.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/alabama-dmv-closures-voting-rights/

 

[James Daulton]

Line to vote was insanely long on the nice side of town and there's no DMV nearby.  It sucks for everyone pretty equally.

If the line's long on the nice side of town, people can just get back in their car and come back later.  A lot of poor folks don't have this flexibility. 

 

[BassNBrew]

If the line's long on the nice side of town, people can just get back in their car and come back later.  A lot of poor folks don't have this flexibility. 

A lot of rich folks don't either.  Amazing that long lines are racist in poor areas and tough boogies in rich areas.  The board of elections in charge of the crap locally are bi-partisn.

 

[The Commish]

Isn't it past time for online voting?

The irony I appreciate most about this is those  against online voting cite gaming the system and every other reason in that vein for not going that route.  Can't make this #### up.  

ETA:  And yes...WAY beyond time for online voting.

 

[MaxThreshold]

The irony I appreciate most about this is those  against online voting cite gaming the system and every other reason in that vein for not going that route.  Can't make this #### up.  

ETA:  And yes...WAY beyond time for online voting.

I'm sure that will be considered racist as well unless we buy everyone a laptop.

 

[MaxThreshold]

That's a good question and off the top of my head I don't know the answer. 

If Legislators could be personally sued, then they would be sued every minute of every day if we allowed that.  Nothing would get done.

 

[Christo]

That's a good question and off the top of my head I don't know the answer. 

Legislators have absolute immunity under Section 1983 for legislative acts.

 

[Dr Oadi]

I'm sure that will be considered racist as well unless we buy every offended group a laptop.

Getting laptop /Internet > <  DMV line?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The irony I appreciate most about this is those  against online voting cite gaming the system and every other reason in that vein for not going that route.  Can't make this #### up.  

ETA:  And yes...WAY beyond time for online voting.

I irony I appreciate the most is when people get upset about the disparate impact of requiring an ID, and then propose an alternative that would have a disparate impact orders of magnitude greater.

 

[Christo]

I irony I appreciate the most is when people get upset about the disparate impact of requiring an ID, and then propose an alternative that would have a disparate impact orders of magnitude greater.

Really?

You don't have to own a computer to vote online. You could use one at work, at a library, at the unemployment office, they could set up computer polling stations.

 

[Christo]

Hell, you could use your phone. They do give those away for free.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Really?

You don't have to own a computer to vote online. You could use one at work, at a library, at the unemployment office, they could set up computer polling stations.

Right.  I get to spend five minutes or less voting in my home before I leave for work in the morning.  The poor, the shiftless, and the disengaged have to somehow make it to the library to use one of a small number of open computers.  I've been told over and over again that a once-every-six-years trip the DMV is disparate impact because I would have had an ID anyway whereas some blind 75 year old wouldn't.  Surely this qualifies too.

 

[Zow]

If Legislators could be personally sued, then they would be sued every minute of every day if we allowed that.  Nothing would get done.

Not really, but certainly there are very good policy reasons for immunity. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Not really, but certainly there are very good policy reasons for immunity. 

Ha uh yeah really.

 

[The Commish]

The irony I appreciate most about this is those  against online voting cite gaming the system and every other reason in that vein for not going that route.  Can't make this #### up.  

ETA:  And yes...WAY beyond time for online voting.

I irony I appreciate the most is when people get upset about the disparate impact of requiring an ID, and then propose an alternative that would have a disparate impact orders of magnitude greater.

When I see this happen, I'll make sure to PM you so you can enjoy it   

 

[The Commish]

And if voting online was just an additional, optional method? An electronic absentee voting?

Although questions of fraud would be much greater.

And those questions would be as legit as people screaming "FRAUD FRAUD, OH THE HUMANITY FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" that we have today around people going all over the place to vote multiple times.

 

[SWC]

you should need a photo id to get a phone to call in to find out when you can vote take that to the bank brohans 

 

[BigSteelThrill]

[SIZE=16pt]We knew. Deep down, most of us knew. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]We knew that North Carolina’s 2013 voter ID law, like similar laws across the country, was not truly about voter fraud, but voter suppression. We knew Republicans were less interested in the integrity of elections than in building obstacles for their opponents’ supporters. We knew. Some Republicans even admitted it. And last week, in North Carolina, they got called on it. The judges then described, with evidence, exactly how lawmakers did it:..[/SIZE]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article92816252.html

 

[IvanKaramazov]

And as an option value?

You mean like what if people like us could vote on our phones at our convenience, while poor people still have to travel to polling sites?

I don't have a philosophical problem with that, but then again I don't care much about disparate impact in the first place.  

 

[MaxThreshold]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article92816252.html

Horse-#### opinion, of course.  In WI the same law was UPHELD by the 7th Circuit in Chicago from another lawsuit.  While this new judgement (for WI) was based on another lawsuit, I don't see why it won't be upheld again.

The left just keeps attacking this from all angles until it finds a sympathetic judge (just keep suing until you get your way, I guess).  It found one - just like it did previously, but the 7th Circuit gets to weigh in again and we know how that turned out last time.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

[SIZE=16pt]Republicans were less interested in the integrity of elections than in building obstacles for their opponents’ supporters.[/SIZE]

 until it finds a sympathetic judge

It was a 3 judge panel. Derp.

 

[MaxThreshold]

[SIZE=16pt]Republicans were less interested in the integrity of elections than in building obstacles for their opponents’ supporters.[/SIZE]

It was a 3 judge panel. Derp.

I'm talking about the WI case.  Derp.

But, like my original post said, the 7th Circuit will weigh in again and the last time that happened they overturned the previous judges ruling and upheld it.

 

[The Big Guy]

Excerpt from 1 article which is the 1st google hit for "obstacles to voter id"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

If you're not one of the shills, instead of taking the 3 or 4 minutes to post here, "It just takes me an hour. WTF is the problem" take 10 minutes, read some things, and then come back. If you are a shill then just keep on keepin' on. Or don't. Go outside and scrub a sidewalk and do something productive.

I live in NJ and where I work, I deal with a LOT of senior citizens.  When the new 6 point rules for drivers licenses came out, there was a lot of complaining because they had to produce an original raised seal birth certificate and that meant somehow getting one from where they were born, which was somewhere not near us.  In every single case, they were able to get one to retain their drivers license.  Were they inconvenienced?  Of course they were.  Did it cost money?  Of course it did again.  You want to talk about making people equal in this country, provide them the assistance they need to get the ID required.  Stop posting the one worst case scenario guy and let's talk about the thousands of others who would benefit from this.

We spend millions upon millions on social programs.  We can't spend a couple of million to hire some folks that can help people get this done?

 

[MaxThreshold]

I live in NJ and where I work, I deal with a LOT of senior citizens.  When the new 6 point rules for drivers licenses came out, there was a lot of complaining because they had to produce an original raised seal birth certificate and that meant somehow getting one from where they were born, which was somewhere not near us.  In every single case, they were able to get one to retain their drivers license.  Were they inconvenienced?  Of course they were.  Did it cost money?  Of course it did again.  You want to talk about making people equal in this country, provide them the assistance they need to get the ID required.  Stop posting the one worst case scenario guy and let's talk about the thousands of others who would benefit from this.

We spend millions upon millions on social programs.  We can't spend a couple of million to hire some folks that can help people get this done?

This is the entire argument made by the left - that EVERYONE is somehow the worst case scenario guy when in reality it's few and far between.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I am against impediments to voting based on race.  I am for them based on stupidity.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I am against impediments to voting based on race.  I am for them based on stupidity.

Seems reasonable.  However, who gets to decide who is stupid and who isn't?

 

[RandyDB]

Seems reasonable.  However, who gets to decide who is stupid and who isn't?

if you won't vote the same as me, you must be stupid. ?

 

[MaxThreshold]

if you won't vote the same as me, you must be stupid. ?

OF COURSE!  

 

[huthut]

We spend millions upon millions on social programs.  We can't spend a couple of million to hire some folks that can help people get this done?

That defeats the purpose of the voter ID laws. They were not made to reduce voter fraud or make sure people have valid IDs, they were made to disenfranchise minorities. Why would they help people the same people vote after spending all of this time passing laws explicitly to make it harder for them to vote?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Seems reasonable.  However, who gets to decide who is stupid and who isn't?

Therein lies the rub.

 

[The Big Guy]

That defeats the purpose of the voter ID laws. They were not made to reduce voter fraud or make sure people have valid IDs, they were made to disenfranchise minorities. Why would they help people the same people vote after spending all of this time passing laws explicitly to make it harder for them to vote?

Have the Democrats, who are in the process of being disenfranchised (as you put it) all over the country, tried to do this or offer it up as an option?  Seems like a decent compromise to me.  You have no proper government id for voting, let us help you get one free of charge.  

 

[mquinnjr]

Have the Democrats, who are in the process of being disenfranchised (as you put it) all over the country, tried to do this or offer it up as an option?  Seems like a decent compromise to me.  You have no proper government id for voting, let us help you get one free of charge.  

I suggest the same earlier in the thread. We spend tax dollars on so many black hole, egregious programs that yield no tangible results as it is. Spending tax revenue to improve ID center infrastructure in urban neighborhoods has a tangible, quantifiable impact, creates jobs, etc. 

"If you don't weigh in, you don't wrassle." - Super Troopers but seriously, I'm for spending tax money to make it as easy to get an ID card as it is to show up at a voting center on election day - but be required to show it.

Why would anyone have a problem with this?

 

[MaxThreshold]

I suggest the same earlier in the thread. We spend tax dollars on so many black hole, egregious programs that yield no tangible results as it is. Spending tax revenue to improve ID center infrastructure in urban neighborhoods has a tangible, quantifiable impact, creates jobs, etc. 

"If you don't weigh in, you don't wrassle." - Super Troopers but seriously, I'm for spending tax money to make it as easy to get an ID card as it is to show up at a voting center on election day - but be required to show it.

Why would anyone have a problem with this?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

A surprising amount of the poor have cell phones (not Obama phones). It's pretty much a necessity at this point. But disparate impact is a little less of a concern, within reason, when it's about extending the franchise rather than limiting it. There's still bounds, obviously, but easier to look at with a kinder eye.

Kind of like a photo ID.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Kind of like a photo ID.

And Ivan lowers the BOOM once again.