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**FFA POKER** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter IC FBGCav
- Start date
The Scorpion
Footballguy
David
There have been some negative reviews about this site. Is this still a good site? Also you say Americans can play, but am I breaking any law if I play?
Thanks
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I deposited there no issue. Supposedly Canadians are having some issues cashing out since they got rid of the PayPal option. But I think most US players haven't had any issues whatsoever. There is a very good Global Poker subforum under the Internet Poker forum over at 2+2. You can read up in detail there if you want more info than you'll ever need.
Shark Week
Footballguy
Why not just use Bovada for poker? 
DallasDMac
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I can't deposit there for some reason. Have had emails in with them for months. I think they gave up even trying to solve the issue.Why not just use Bovada for poker?
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I can't use anything there. When I attempt to deposit, I get an error message. This has been going on for about a month and a half. This thread reminded me about it so I wrote again. The latest response:
"Thanks for your reply.
We’re sorry to know that this caused you inconvenience.
Due to the limited information that we can discuss with you through email, please call us at 1-888-263-0000. We'd be able to completely explain to you all the details regarding your query."
Pretty much sounds like their way of saying "You're screwed. Call and we'll tell you why." I've already called several times. Not gonna bother again. I'll just play at Global.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Weird. Maybe they are trying to avoid taking on new customers. not sure. i've been with them for 10+ years so never had an issue.
Shark Week
Footballguy
Anything on the Winning Poker Network (ie Black Chip Poker) might be a good idea too. They and Bovada/Ignition are the two biggest US-facing rooms imo.
Softballguy
Footballguy
I would recommend Ignition over Black Chip. The game is much easier there. On Black Chip you're basically playing against multi-table grinders, and there's some evidence to the idea of bots as well.
The Scorpion
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
It's never been illegal to play in the US. It's deposits and withdrawals that were in question.
John Bender
Footballguy
Man the game has passed me by for sure.
I grew up close to a few huge casinos and spent many a college weekend grinding 36 hour poker sessions.
I moved to areas that didn't have casinos but recently moved back.
What a different game it is out there.
For reference, I usually sit 2-5 NL Hold Em. A few observations...
-I'm almost always the worst player at the table now. While I think my strength is reading people - (sort of the old school way of player poker) it seems like...
-People don't even pay attention anymore. They play based on theory, pot odds, equity exclusively. In between hands people are watching netflix, playing with their phones, listening to music. Is that the live game now? Just mechanical - going through the motions - like studying chess openings for years and knowing 45 moves worth of theory so were you can pretty much auto pilot with little that. And why are those types of people so much better that pays attention to every hand, is decent at getting reads on people, their style and when they're bluffing.
-I've spent about 30 hours playing this week, and I think I might be done. Today I only wound up down 130 dollars but I'm stuck about a grand total this week.
One interesting thing I wonder what poker guys think about it. To my right and guy was in a heads up for a huge pot. His opponent folded to an all in. When he went to muck his cards, I think he accidentally flashed them to me - in fact I'm sure it was accidental. I made a comment that I saw what he had - just for the reason I wanted him to know that I knew it was a bluff (he had nothing). He asked me aloud "Oh yeah what did I have then?" - and I answered him loudly enough for the table to hear. He then got pissed I announced it loudly enough for entire table to here. Was I wrong?
Anyway, just some late night rambling. I found the game so much different than a decade ago. I didn't expect it to be that different.
I grew up close to a few huge casinos and spent many a college weekend grinding 36 hour poker sessions.
I moved to areas that didn't have casinos but recently moved back.
What a different game it is out there.
For reference, I usually sit 2-5 NL Hold Em. A few observations...
-I'm almost always the worst player at the table now. While I think my strength is reading people - (sort of the old school way of player poker) it seems like...
-People don't even pay attention anymore. They play based on theory, pot odds, equity exclusively. In between hands people are watching netflix, playing with their phones, listening to music. Is that the live game now? Just mechanical - going through the motions - like studying chess openings for years and knowing 45 moves worth of theory so were you can pretty much auto pilot with little that. And why are those types of people so much better that pays attention to every hand, is decent at getting reads on people, their style and when they're bluffing.
-I've spent about 30 hours playing this week, and I think I might be done. Today I only wound up down 130 dollars but I'm stuck about a grand total this week.
One interesting thing I wonder what poker guys think about it. To my right and guy was in a heads up for a huge pot. His opponent folded to an all in. When he went to muck his cards, I think he accidentally flashed them to me - in fact I'm sure it was accidental. I made a comment that I saw what he had - just for the reason I wanted him to know that I knew it was a bluff (he had nothing). He asked me aloud "Oh yeah what did I have then?" - and I answered him loudly enough for the table to hear. He then got pissed I announced it loudly enough for entire table to here. Was I wrong?
Anyway, just some late night rambling. I found the game so much different than a decade ago. I didn't expect it to be that different.
The Big Guy
Fear the Blitz
Can people still do transfers between players so one person can fund another in game and offline pay them back like we used to be able to do back in the day?
I've never been great at reading players in live poker. I tend to do better at analyzing their play, what they are doing in hands I'm not involved in, etc.
I think the most optimal style for today's live 2-5 NL is simply "tight aggressive". Sit back...don't get cute...but don't be afraid to make some moves when needed. If you do bluff, bluffs tend to work out much better at 2-5 instead of 1-2...where your bluffs tend to get called.
John Bender
Footballguy
Thanks I naturally play tight aggro anyway.
I just found it interesting how much the game has evolved/passed me by.
John Bender
Footballguy
I did have one interesting hand I'd like to hear from someone on.
I had a pretty good read on one player's game, when he was strong/weak.
We got into a very expensive hand where the board ended up being a straight 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
There was no way I figured him for a 7, I was reasonably certain he did not have a 7. There were 2 diamonds, and I figured him for a busted flush draw.
I actually did have an ace (I think Ace 10 suited, but it doesnt matter).
On the river he bet 105 dollars into about a 70 dollar pot.
A. I'm definitely never folding here if I'm strong in my read he doesn't have a 7. I assume that's correct.
B. I tanked for a bit and re-raised an additional 105 because I was so certain he was just playing the board. Do you find this play reckless on my part?
He called. Then got angry about my re-raise (or seemed to be annoyed).
I'm surprised he made the call, were the situation reversed, I'd have seriously considered a fold at that point. I guess we were just too pot committed for either of us to get away from a boarded straight.
I'd love to hear any thoughts on it. I hate telling poker war stories, I'm just trying to improve my game is all. I liked my move there. I actually wish I raised all-in. I had about 300 behind.
I had a pretty good read on one player's game, when he was strong/weak.
We got into a very expensive hand where the board ended up being a straight 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
There was no way I figured him for a 7, I was reasonably certain he did not have a 7. There were 2 diamonds, and I figured him for a busted flush draw.
I actually did have an ace (I think Ace 10 suited, but it doesnt matter).
On the river he bet 105 dollars into about a 70 dollar pot.
A. I'm definitely never folding here if I'm strong in my read he doesn't have a 7. I assume that's correct.
B. I tanked for a bit and re-raised an additional 105 because I was so certain he was just playing the board. Do you find this play reckless on my part?
He called. Then got angry about my re-raise (or seemed to be annoyed).
I'm surprised he made the call, were the situation reversed, I'd have seriously considered a fold at that point. I guess we were just too pot committed for either of us to get away from a boarded straight.
I'd love to hear any thoughts on it. I hate telling poker war stories, I'm just trying to improve my game is all. I liked my move there. I actually wish I raised all-in. I had about 300 behind.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
John Bender
Footballguy
Thanks. Only risk was, if he re-raised I have to fold there. That's why I decided on 105 raise with 300 behind.
munga30
Checkin' my email
Can you have a 7 on the river? How would you have played the river if you *did* have a 7? Would you have tanked like you did here?
Games are certainly worse than they were 5-10 years ago. But the games near you, generally, are good. No shame in playing 1/2 and learning some new tricks. Hell the learning is half the fun! Or don't there's also no shame in deciding it's not fun/profitable anymore.
I tell people if they expose their hands during play, but I do it quietly and after the hand is over. If they continue to do it I just shrug and move on. I wouldn't say a word in the spot you describe. The hand is over.
Games are certainly worse than they were 5-10 years ago. But the games near you, generally, are good. No shame in playing 1/2 and learning some new tricks. Hell the learning is half the fun! Or don't there's also no shame in deciding it's not fun/profitable anymore.
I tell people if they expose their hands during play, but I do it quietly and after the hand is over. If they continue to do it I just shrug and move on. I wouldn't say a word in the spot you describe. The hand is over.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I played a tourney and 1-3 NL the other night. While the cash game was pretty tough and I eventually got up because there weren't many good spots, some of the tourney play I saw was really bad. Like flatting a raise in the BB with a quarter of your stack, then just folding to a continuation bet on the flop. Or getting down to 2 BB before finally shoving.munga30 said:
I dunno, play donkaments I guess.
Question arising from that 1/3 NL sesh: I am looking for hand histories of an omaha 8 1k/2k short-handed game on FTP years ago, I know Benyamine and Hansen were involved. Any ideas where I could find this? HSDB appears to be no help, you can't even filter for 1k/2k.
munga30
Checkin' my email
The only thing I can think of is the 2p2 High stakes rail thread(s) in NVG. You'll have to go month by month, I think.
Softballguy
Footballguy
The whole tells thing is pretty much gone, especially at 2-5nl. That game will usually be 6 or 7 decent regs and 2 or 3 fish. Unless you're planning on playing a ton of hands with someone, it kind of is an autopilot-ish game. Many players will have their ranges pretty well worked out, and the hands somewhat play themselves. It's more similar to multi-tabling online players... There are guys who play 10 tables at once where, HUDs aside, they're pretty much playing on autopilot.John Bender said:
ETA - that doesn't mean it can't still be a social game.
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
Was just in Vegas last week. Played a session or two the first day and realized that, once the online poker of old died, so did my interest. I played maybe 5 or 6 hours total, and didn't go back. I guess my Vegas days are over.
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
Yes. Player B should have announced a raise or put out $30. His action constitutes a "call".
brun
Footballguy
Thanks for the response.
Player A is me. When B made his move, I looked at the dealer and said, "Are you going to let him do that?"
The dealer (I don't remember the exact words) asked if I was asking about a string bet and when I replied affirmatively he called the floor. The floor allowed it saying that it was OK because he originally put in more than 1/2 of what was needed to raise.
I must have been sitting there with this WTF perplexed look on my face. Because player A kindly "educates" me on the fact that a raise needs to be at least twice that bet and that's why he added the $5.
I still love live poker but I think game selection is much more important today. It's a tough game when you go sit down to a table full of old, nitty regulars and a $20 pot is a "large" pot. Both from a profitability aspect and a fun aspect, you have to be willing to ask for a table change more often in today's game.
That being said, tables can change quick if you have one or two fish show up to a table. The whole dynamic of the table can change quickly.
Zegras11
Footballguy
If he put down one chip for the 25, it's not a raise. If he put down 2 or more chips, it is a raise.
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NIU Kicker
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Yea, I get all that. When I just go for a couple days, I just want to hop on a table and have some fun. It just wasn't enjoyable like it used to be. Almost felt like I was stuck at my desk at work. Trust me, it's me. I just realized the poker phase is over for me. The long lay-off from the game after they closed the old online poker coupled with the fact I have to drive or fly for hours to play, it's simply lost it's luster.
gianmarco
Footballguy
This.
Single chip for more is always just a call unless a raise is announced. He could have thrown a $100 chip and it's still just a call.
But if he put in five $5's, then it's a raise whether he intended to or not.
brun
Footballguy
Thanks for your comments.
FWIW - It's not an issue of 1 chip w/o announcing a raise. It's not putting his chips out in 1 continuous motion that makes it a string bet. The fact that the floor ruled that it was ok since the original chips were more than 1/2 of the amount required for a legal raise is what I find perplexing.
Zegras11
Footballguy
If he put in two chips or more, he had to put in the extra chips to make it a legal raise. So that makes the string part a moot point.
gianmarco
Footballguy
But it is.
I know what a string bet is. This here has nothing to do with a string bet ruling.
Assuming he doesn't announce a raise (which he clearly didn't or you wouldn't have asked about the bet), then this can only go 1 of two ways:
1) If he put a single chip out, it's a call. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a $5, a $25, a $100, or a $500. Single chip without announcing a raise is a call.
2) If he puts multiple chips out, then it depends on the amount. If he put multiple chips that were over your bet but didn't complete a min raise, then he's obligated to complete the min raise and no more. If he had put more than the min raise, then he can't add. THAT would be a string bet. If he matched your bet or less, then he can't raise as that would also be a string bet. But you stated he put $25 so that's irrelevant.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
To clarify another way, if I was player B and inadvertantly put in $25 with 5 chips when I meant to just call, I actually would not be allowed to pull the extra back. I HAVE to complete the min raise.
I've seen this happen and then the original bettor reraised knowing he didn't mean to raise and got him to fold. Sucks, but that's how it goes.
I've seen this happen and then the original bettor reraised knowing he didn't mean to raise and got him to fold. Sucks, but that's how it goes.
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brun
Footballguy
Softballguy
Footballguy
Better question here is 'who min three bets?'
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
I got a juicy one for you guys. 2/5 NL wild game while wsopc Cherokee is running a week ago. In middle position. A7spades. Raise 20 from utg plus 2. I call, button makes it 60. Sb calls, utg+2 calls, I call. Flop comes. 2x 4s 5s. Sb checks, utg2 checks, I check, button bets 150, sb calls, utg2 pushes all in about 600. I got about 1500. Other 2 have me covered. What's the play?
gianmarco
Footballguy
Your only play here is all-in. But....
There is zero chance I check this hand when action first comes to you. This flop hit you about as hard as a flop can in a multi-way pot without having a made hand. You should be willing to get all your chips in but you want to try and win it right away. With $240 in the pot when action comes to you after two checks, I would bet ~$200ish (or depending on table even more like $300-$350) and try and take it down right there while you welcome any call and would be willing to call any raise.
Ranges of hands based on pre-flop action and flop action:
UTG2 -- Likely a big overpair (QQ or KK), possibly KQss.
Button -- likely AK, AQ, maybe 9's, 10's, JJ, QQ, KK. Based on the $150 bet, seems like an attempt to try and steal after 3 checks. I think the bigger pairs are less likely given the flush draw as those hands would bet bigger. Any made hand here (set or overpair) is trying to take it down right now with the straight/flush draws and 4-way action.
SB -- Pretty wide range here. Suited connectors like 4-5, 5-6, 3-4, 6-7 are all in play as are any small pair. Could have a set here. Could have a flush draw (10Jss, for example).
The thing is, you're favored against any hand except a made straight (very unlikely), a set (possible), or AA (less likely given your hand). And even with the set and AA, you're better than a 2-1 underdog. So your chips have to get in on this pot either way. Which is why I think it was a big mistake to check to start off. If you're willing/need to get your chips in, you should be leading out with a bet. The ONLY way I check is if I'm first to act with the plan of check-raising all in.
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IC FBGCav
Footballguy
I am not going to give up what happens but I knew a cbet would be called by at least one player. Shoving 200 plus bigs, was not in my options.
gianmarco
Footballguy
That's fine if it's called by at least one player. But you've taken control of the hand AND you might force 1-2 out AND you might get a good read as a result.
With how the hand played out as you described, I'm pushing 10/10 times. But, I can see someone folding if they don't want to risk their stack and just want to give up the $60 invested. I find that more understandable than checking in 3rd position after two checks with that flop. You have to lead out and make it unprofitable for anything other than a big hand to call (and a hand which you are likely leading against).
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IC FBGCav
Footballguy
Actually my check was hoping the button would bet so I could shove. Downside is he made a small bet, the shove was great imo, I shoved. After what seemed forever, button shoved, sb called.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Any flush draws? I can somewhat understand button calling if he's got a good read and holding the Qs. Very loose, but I've seen much worse. SB calling with AJ there and 3 all-ins is stupid. UTG2's play was trying to steal on what he perceived weakness. Not the worst play. Better than the other 2.
Outcome?
