Figuring out three way tiebreakers (1 Viewer)

[otis68]

How does the NFL figure out a three-way tiebreaker? They lay out all the rules, but in practice I'm missing something, namely when they apply each tiebreaker are they eliminating the team with the lowest seed, or are they promoting the team to get the highest seed?

For example

If three teams are tied for best record in the AFC.

Team A beat Team B, lost to Team C, 6-0 division record

Team B beat Team C, lost to Team A, 4-2 division record

Team C beat Team A, lost to Team B, 5-1 division record

Tiebreaker rules as follows

1) Head to head outcome

2) Division record

All teams are 1-1 head to head, so we drop to rule 2.

Now, do you drop Team B (ie eliminate the lowest seed), since it had the worst divisional record, or promote Team A since it had the best? The outcomes are completely different depending on which you do.

Seeding under first scenario, Team B would be the three seed due to it's divisional record, and then Team C would be the number 1 seed by virtue of its win over Team A.

Under the second scenario, Team A would get the 1 seed due to it's divisional record, and then Team B would be the 2 seed due to its win over Team C.

I read through the Tiebreaker rules and still can't come up with the answer to this, anybody know?

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

 

[Crazy8s]

Team A is 1st (Head to head out the door with 3 teams involved...goes to Division wins)

Team B comes out 2nd (Once team A advances...you can now go to head to head between these two... Team B beat team C...so they rank higher)

Team C comes out 3rd.

 

[Crazy8s]

Back up... how did Team C beat team A? You have Team A 6-0 in division?

 

[The_Man]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

 

[belljr]

Well it does depend on if this is WC or Division but looks like you are doing division.

To answer your question they kind of do both eliminate a team OR advance a team.

You example TEAM A WINS the tiebreak

OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES

1.Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step. Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild Card tie-breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to Step 1 of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tiebreaker, all other clubs revert to Step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format.

 

[otis68]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

 

[belljr]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

Step 22.Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.You check the best or if 2 teams tie for the best then that elimiantes the third team and you go back to 2 team tiebreaker

 

[Fightin Donkey]

To make it easier in my league, I go H2H when 2 teams are tied, if 3 or more are tied, I go right to Total Points Scored for the year.

After all isn't that what FF is about, scoring points?

 

[The_Man]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

It could be either. For example, if head-to-head doesn't apply, and you go to division record, you would promote the #1 seed if it was 4-2 and the other two were 3-3. But if you go to division record and two teams are 4-2 and one is 3-3, you drop out the # 3 seed.

 

[otis68]

To make it easier in my league, I go H2H when 2 teams are tied, if 3 or more are tied, I go right to Total Points Scored for the year.After all isn't that what FF is about, scoring points?

I wholeheartedly agree, but that's not what the NFL does, and when our rules were set up 16 years ago they were based on what the NFL does.

 

[Joe Summer]

How does the NFL figure out a three-way tiebreaker? They lay out all the rules, but in practice I'm missing something, namely when they apply each tiebreaker are they eliminating the team with the lowest seed, or are they promoting the team to get the highest seed?

You eliminate ALL the lowest seeds, then move on to the next tiebreaker for the remaining teams.For example, if 3 teams are tied, but 2 of them have 5-1 division records and the 3rd team is 3-3, then the 3rd team is eliminated and you move on to the next tiebreaker for the two 5-1 teams.However, if one team is 5-1, another is 4-2, and another is 3-3, then you eliminate BOTH the lower seeds and award the spot to the 5-1 team. (In your scenario, the 6-0 Team A wins the first playoff spot.)Once you've selected a team for a playoff seed, you start the tiebreaking process over again for the remaining teams. (In your scenario, Team B would go ahead of Team C.)

 

[otis68]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

Step 22.Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.You check the best or if 2 teams tie for the best then that elimiantes the third team and you go back to 2 team tiebreaker

Thanks!

 

[vinwinephans]

I'm confused by the example. Are breaking a tie-breaker within the division or across divisions? Your example would seem to apply across divisions since one has a 6-0 divisional record and lost to one of the teams they are assigned to. If so, it's important to note what divisions the teams are in.

You need to determine the top team in each division... so say team A was in division Y and teams B and C in division Z, team A is the best of division Y and you need to figure out the best of teams B and C by divisional tie-breakers - head-to-head, divisional record, etc...

Since B beat C, Team B is now evaluated against Team A in cross-divisional tie-breaker rules (AKA wild card tie-breakers). Team B lost to Team A, Team A gets in. One wild card has been seeded.

If there is a second wild card to seed still... B and C are left and you evaluate them... since they are divisional foes, we already established that B bested C, so B gets in (no one left unseeded from other divisions with the same record).

If this was a divisional scenario - all teams in division, then your scenario is flawed... perhaps A should have been 5-1... in this scenario, the trick is eliminate until there are 1 or 2 teams left tied. If you get to 2 after a step, you go to the 2-team tie-breaker for the 2 teams left. If you eliminate all but 1 after a step - that 1 wins the tie-breaker.

This is the key statement:

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).

In this case, the teams h2h is all 1-1 - no teams eliminated. Going to divisional record, Team A (with my correction) and Team C would be tied at 5-1 with team b eliminated. We now need to go back step 1 of the 2 team tie-breaker rules for Team A and C. Team B is locked in as the lowest of the three since they were eliminated on their own. Team C beat Team A, so team C is the top seed of the three with A in the middle.

 

[Joe Summer]

I'm confused by the example. Are breaking a tie-breaker within the division or across divisions? Your example would seem to apply across divisions since one has a 6-0 divisional record and lost to one of the teams they are assigned to. If so, it's important to note what divisions the teams are in.

Good point. The NFL never uses divisional record to break ties with teams in different divisions.However, not all fantasy leagues follow this rule (even though they should).

 

[kardplayer]

NFL Wild card:

Step 1, settle all divsion ties

Step 2, settle ties across divisions

For example:

Team X - 11-5, winner of division 1

Team A - 10-6, 4-2 in division 1, 1-1 vs. Team B, 1-0 vs. Team C

Team B - 10-6, 5-1 in division 1, 1-1 vs. Team A, 0-1 vs. Team C

Team C - 10-6, 3-3 in division 2, beat B, lost to A

Team B beats Team A in the tiebreak for 2nd place in Division 1 by virtue of better division record

Team B loses tiebreak to Team C (head to head).

Team C is Wild Card #1

Team B and Team A now face off for Wild Card 2, and Team B gets it

 

[C-Bound]

To make it easier in my league, I go H2H when 2 teams are tied, if 3 or more are tied, I go right to Total Points Scored for the year.After all isn't that what FF is about, scoring points?

We use winning % with teams you're tied with before points fwiw.

 

[Mr. Fusion]

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

 

[Topes]

If three teams are tied for best record in the AFC.

Team A beat Team B, lost to Team C, 6-0 division record

Team B beat Team C, lost to Team A, 4-2 division record

Team C beat Team A, lost to Team B, 5-1 division record

Tiebreaker rules as follows

1) Head to head outcome

2) Division record

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

Your example necessarily includes teams in different divisions.It is, thus, necessarily a Wild Card tiebreaker.

Division Record is not a factor in Wild Card tiebreaker.

 

[belljr]

I'm confused by the example. Are breaking a tie-breaker within the division or across divisions? Your example would seem to apply across divisions since one has a 6-0 divisional record and lost to one of the teams they are assigned to. If so, it's important to note what divisions the teams are in.

Good point. The NFL never uses divisional record to break ties with teams in different divisions.However, not all fantasy leagues follow this rule (even though they should).

Yeah - I made the assumption this was for a division tie breaker he was doing. Probably a bad assumption but

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Leagues really need to drop head to head as a tiebreaker.

Go straight to points and then breakdown

 

[Synthesizer]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

Has there been a definitive answer to this question? Most people in this thread said the initial move was to declare the #1 seed, but a few guys said the initial move was to drop out the #3 seed.

 

[Brewtown]

THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS MAKE THE TIE-BREAKER IN FANTASYTOTAL POINTS!

ALWAYS!

 

[shuke]

THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS MAKE THE TIE-BREAKER IN FANTASYTOTAL POINTS!ALWAYS!

WHY? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEAD-TO-HEAD LEAGUES.

 

[Brewtown]

THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS MAKE THE TIE-BREAKER IN FANTASYTOTAL POINTS!ALWAYS!

WHY? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEAD-TO-HEAD LEAGUES.

ITS EASY AND ELIMINATES HAVING TO HIRE OUT ALBERT EINSTEIN TO TRY AND DESIPHER WHO MAKES THE PLAYOFFS. PLUS ITS THE BEST TRUE MEASURE OF A FANTASY TEAM OVER THE COURSE OF THE FANTASY SEASON.

 

[Joe Summer]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

Has there been a definitive answer to this question? Most people in this thread said the initial move was to declare the #1 seed, but a few guys said the initial move was to drop out the #3 seed.

The initial move should be to declare the #1 seed. However, if multiple teams are still tied for #1 (even after applying the 1st tiebreaker), THAT'S when your initial move is to drop the #3 seed (or any other teams that aren't tied for #1).Once you drop the lower seeds, you RE-START the tiebreaking process between the higher seeds.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Leagues really need to drop head to head as a tiebreaker.Go straight to points and then breakdown

My league went the opposite way (after I made the playoffs based on points over a team that got lucky and was 2-0 against me with far fewer points).I figure if I qualify on divisional record over someone with a ton more points with me they'll change it back the next year.-QG

 

[Topes]

THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS MAKE THE TIE-BREAKER IN FANTASYTOTAL POINTS!ALWAYS!

WHY? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEAD-TO-HEAD LEAGUES.

ITS EASY AND ELIMINATES HAVING TO HIRE OUT ALBERT EINSTEIN TO TRY AND DESIPHER WHO MAKES THE PLAYOFFS. PLUS ITS THE BEST TRUE MEASURE OF A FANTASY TEAM OVER THE COURSE OF THE FANTASY SEASON.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THE BEST TRUE MEASURE OF A FANTASY TEAM OVER THE COURSE OF THE FANTASY SEASON, YOU SHOULD ELIMINATE HEAD TO HEAD ALTOGETHER. IT DOES NOT ACCURATELY ASSESS GOODNESS IN A WAY THAT MOST CAN READILY DESIPHER.

 

[GregR]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

You do the first step of the tiebreak. If a single team wins the tiebreak exclusively then the tiebreak is over and that team gets the spot. If teams tied for best in the tiebreak category, you remove the teams who didn't and you start over at step 1 of the tiebreak. For a fantasy category like total points, starting over at step 1 won't matter. So let's say we have 4 teams, one from each division, tie for a wildcard. They use the 3-or-more team wildcard tiebreak:Step 1: Already down to 1 team per division, so all teams continue to step 2.Step 2: Head to head sweep. None of our 4 teams swept the other 3, so all four teams continue to step 3.Step 3: Conference win-loss. Let's say that Teams A & B have a 9-3 conference records, Teams C and D have 8-4 and 7-5. Result: Teams C and D did not finish at the top of the tiebreak so are eliminated.Teams A & B now start back at Step 1. But since they are down to 2 teams they use the 2 team tiebreak.Step 1: Head to head. Team A beat Team B in their lone head to head game, so Team A wins and gets the wildcard spot.A lot of people will think they should just continue on to step 4 after step 3 eliminated teams but didn't narrow it down to just 1 team. That isn't how the NFL does it. Any time a team is eliminated you start a new tiebreak with the remaining teams.Let's say that was for the first wildcard. Teams B, C and D would then start a new tiebreak for the second wildcard with Step 1 for just those 3 teams. Team B does not win it by virtue of having come in second in some previous tiebreak. If, say, Team C swept Teams B and D (but hadn't swept A so head to head sweep didn't apply last time), then Team C would win the 2nd wildcard even though Team B finished higher in the tiebreak for the previous playoff spot.

 

[shuke]

THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS MAKE THE TIE-BREAKER IN FANTASYTOTAL POINTS!ALWAYS!

WHY? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HEAD-TO-HEAD LEAGUES.

ITS EASY AND ELIMINATES HAVING TO HIRE OUT ALBERT EINSTEIN TO TRY AND DESIPHER WHO MAKES THE PLAYOFFS. PLUS ITS THE BEST TRUE MEASURE OF A FANTASY TEAM OVER THE COURSE OF THE FANTASY SEASON.

OK WE'LL JUST HAVE TO DISAGREE.

 

[Synthesizer]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

.......Let's say that was for the first wildcard. Teams B, C and D would then start a new tiebreak for the second wildcard with Step 1 for just those 3 teams. Team B does not win it by virtue of having come in second in some previous tiebreak. If, say, Team C swept Teams B and D (but hadn't swept A so head to head sweep didn't apply last time), then Team C would win the 2nd wildcard even though Team B finished higher in the tiebreak for the previous playoff spot.

So when there are multiple wild card spots available, you award wildcard #1 to team A, then start a new tiebreaker between B, C, and D? I don't know who's right or wrong, but others in this thread have focused more on the initial elimination of C and D even for that 2nd wildcard spot.

 

[Joe Summer]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

.......Let's say that was for the first wildcard. Teams B, C and D would then start a new tiebreak for the second wildcard with Step 1 for just those 3 teams. Team B does not win it by virtue of having come in second in some previous tiebreak. If, say, Team C swept Teams B and D (but hadn't swept A so head to head sweep didn't apply last time), then Team C would win the 2nd wildcard even though Team B finished higher in the tiebreak for the previous playoff spot.

So when there are multiple wild card spots available, you award wildcard #1 to team A, then start a new tiebreaker between B, C, and D? I don't know who's right or wrong, but others in this thread have focused more on the initial elimination of C and D even for that 2nd wildcard spot.

Yes, you award wildcard #1 to Team A (assuming that Team A was not tied with another team after the first tiebreaking step).The tiebreaking process starts over whenever you award a playoff spot OR whenever you eliminate a team.

 

[spodog]

To make it easier in my league, I go H2H when 2 teams are tied, if 3 or more are tied, I go right to Total Points Scored for the year.

After all isn't that what FF is about, scoring points?

In a H2H leauge, it's about scoring enough points in any given week to outscore your opponents. For those that want to emphasize total points, just set your league up as a total points league. Not a fan of having Total Points scored very hight in the tie breaker sequence.

 

[QuizGuy66]

To make it easier in my league, I go H2H when 2 teams are tied, if 3 or more are tied, I go right to Total Points Scored for the year.

After all isn't that what FF is about, scoring points?

In a H2H leauge, it's about scoring enough points in any given week to outscore your opponents. For those that want to emphasize total points, just set your league up as a total points league. Not a fan of having Total Points scored very hight in the tie breaker sequence.

I'm a total points guy as opposed to head-to-head. You're punishing a team twice for having an unlucky week against a specific opponent. All-play record is a reasonable first choice for tiebreaker as well IMO.-QG

 

[GregR]

You keep going down the list of tie-breakers until you find one that breaks the 3-way tie. Then, to break the subsequent two-way tie, you start all over again at the top of the tie-breaker list.

Yes, but do you use the tiebreaker to declare the #1 seed, or drop out the #3 seed? That's the essence of my question.

.......Let's say that was for the first wildcard. Teams B, C and D would then start a new tiebreak for the second wildcard with Step 1 for just those 3 teams. Team B does not win it by virtue of having come in second in some previous tiebreak. If, say, Team C swept Teams B and D (but hadn't swept A so head to head sweep didn't apply last time), then Team C would win the 2nd wildcard even though Team B finished higher in the tiebreak for the previous playoff spot.

So when there are multiple wild card spots available, you award wildcard #1 to team A, then start a new tiebreaker between B, C, and D? I don't know who's right or wrong, but others in this thread have focused more on the initial elimination of C and D even for that 2nd wildcard spot.

Correct. There is not one big tiebreaker and all spots are awarded from it. Every spot gets its own tiebreaker based only on the teams tied for the spot. If a team got the first wildcard, then obviously they are not part of a tie for the second wildcard so can't be included. And from the example and as Joe Summer points out, every time a team gets eliminated from a tiebreak the NFL starts that tiebreak back at the first step with the remaining teams if more than one. With things like head to head and record in common games, it makes a difference.