Firing an employee. It sucks. Can anyone relate? (1 Viewer)

[fruity pebbles]

I won’t go in to any details but I’ve basically told my last 3 managers that I don’t want to be a people manager because I don’t want to fire/layoff people. It’s the worst.

Me too. They’ve tried to get me to be a clinical leader for years. Every time I’ve refused. I like to be liked, I like to be everyone’s friend and I certainly don’t want to sit in on termination meetings. If it were my business, it would be different but I’m not going to be the spearhead for healthcare management.

 

[nightmare]

As a manager it's your job to document the poor performance. Tough to do, but when it comes time to fire that person there should
be NO surprises.

I was hired as a lead with a three man crew. I was told I had to fire one because of poor performance and was to document the
performance. The other two? One was extremely mad as he wanted the job. The second was on the cusp of being fired if he was
late one more time.

The first guy gets transferred to another department and got caught sleeping on the job(still not fired), later breaks a floor scrubbing
machine($1000 damage) and finally gets the boot.

Document the stuff. Yes, you feel like an a-hole doing it but it's not fair to the other employees if you don't do YOUR job.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

You maybe right but the only two times I’ve been sued is by the two people I’ve fired for cause.

And let me guess ... your insurance company settled and they got paid anyway

I see you’ve done this before.

Yes in one case, the other guy I spent more than the deductible so I could beat him officially. He was a crook.

 

[The Z Machine]

I actually got "fired" a few weeks ago ...I was denied faculty tenure at my university, so I get to work through next year (I was actually fired a year ago, but had a successful appeal). The odd thing is that throughout last year and even now, I'm essentially treated as a non-entity, despite 26 years at the university ...particularly since it's a smaller Catholic university. [PS: This pushes me into retirement a couple of years earlier than planned ..,but thank you.]

My point: On one hand, treat the person as a fellow human being. Show respect. On the other hand, it's a business decision, so go with it. In many/most cases, the fired individual will end up back on their feet, often in a better situation. That will take time, but no need to get too lost in the moment. Sometimes - yes - the individual is getting the short end of the stick. But again, respect them as an individual and do what needs to be done. Life can be messy sometimes, and we get caught in the middle.

Nothing to add but GLLLLLLLLLLLLL peas

 

[tri-man 47]

I actually got "fired" a few weeks ago ...I was denied faculty tenure at my university, so I get to work through next year (I was actually fired a year ago, but had a successful appeal). The odd thing is that throughout last year and even now, I'm essentially treated as a non-entity, despite 26 years at the university ...particularly since it's a smaller Catholic university. [PS: This pushes me into retirement a couple of years earlier than planned ..,but thank you.]

My point: On one hand, treat the person as a fellow human being. Show respect. On the other hand, it's a business decision, so go with it. In many/most cases, the fired individual will end up back on their feet, often in a better situation. That will take time, but no need to get too lost in the moment. Sometimes - yes - the individual is getting the short end of the stick. But again, respect them as an individual and do what needs to be done. Life can be messy sometimes, and we get caught in the middle.

Nothing to add but GLLLLLLLLLLLLL peas

Thanks ...but really, I'm at peace with it. If the situation was decent, I'd probably work too many years. This pushes me to finish up in a year and spend more time with the grandsons (third one due in August). Family, volunteer work, running, reading ...all good!

 

[FatMax]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

You maybe right but the only two times I’ve been sued is by the two people I’ve fired for cause.

And let me guess ... your insurance company settled and they got paid anyway

I see you’ve done this before.

Yes in one case, the other guy I spent more than the deductible so I could beat him officially. He was a crook.

in process now.

Edit ... deleted details. Probably a bad idea to post that, even under an anonymous username.

 

[shuke]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

Of course. I really like going the PIP (performance improvement plan) route, but only do that as a last resort if regular feedback/coaching isn't working.

In my experience people respond a documented threat of termination in one of two ways, either they really turn it around and better themselves, or they see the writing on the wall and start looking for another job. Works out either way. And that latter group is typically those that are beyond coaching.

 

[shuke]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

Curious why not regarding your last sentence? In my experiences, HR has had me document to the nines all the examples of poor performance, all conversations giving feedback, etc.

 

[bigbottom]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

Curious why not regarding your last sentence? In my experiences, HR has had me document to the nines all the examples of poor performance, all conversations giving feedback, etc.

During performance management, you document in detail and provide concrete examples and specific expectations for improvement. During a termination meeting (after you’ve had all of the coaching sessions, performance feedback, and written documentation), you don’t get into a debate over the details. There is no upside. Only downside.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

My former company did a massive RIF a few years back, maybe in 2015-16. I was very new to the job, and my new boss had me fire 3 people on day 3 of the job. Zero choice on my part (he told me on day 1, long story).

One of the people I had to fire was a long time manager, beloved by the entire team. He got offered an early retirement package, he was coasting at that point, etc. But the dude had been around 35+ years.

Anyway, we didn’t know each other well but had a ton of work friends in common. We met outside the conference room where our HR person was waiting. This guy looked at me, and no joke said “Hey, APK, don’t worry about me. I’m gonna be completely fine. This company has been great to me. Don’t stress it — you’ll be ok after today APK.”

Then he went on: “If it isn’t too much to ask, I do have one small favor. My son, Tom, works in a different department. He’s an up and comer. Works hard but needs a mentor. Can you do me a favor and keep an eye out for him?”

I still tear up when I tell that story to people. This freaking guy was on the chopping block, and his whole focus in the moment was a) is the guy standing across from me ok? and b) making sure his kid would be alright.

7-8 years on and I’ve kept my promise to him. Still mentor his son to this day. “Kid” just took a new job - big promotion - and I was one of his first phone calls to be a sounding board on the opportunity. I learned so much that day from this old dude whose career was ending…..

(Note: plenty of other times it hasn’t gone well and has been brutally painful)

 

[The Duff Man]

I have had to fire about ten people in my career. I think all but a couple times the person knew it was coming but even when they do it is horrible.

It is about the only thing in my career at this point I still get nervous about prior to doing it.

Only once was there a blowup. When I was a new GM at age 40 I had to fire one of my managers who was mid 50s. He berated me and said I didn’t know what I was doing and was going to fail. He was wrong

 

[FatMax]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

My former company did a massive RIF a few years back, maybe in 2015-16. I was very new to the job, and my new boss had me fire 3 people on day 3 of the job. Zero choice on my part (he told me on day 1, long story).

One of the people I had to fire was a long time manager, beloved by the entire team. He got offered an early retirement package, he was coasting at that point, etc. But the dude had been around 35+ years.

Anyway, we didn’t know each other well but had a ton of work friends in common. We met outside the conference room where our HR person was waiting. This guy looked at me, and no joke said “Hey, APK, don’t worry about me. I’m gonna be completely fine. This company has been great to me. Don’t stress it — you’ll be ok after today APK.”

Then he went on: “If it isn’t too much to ask, I do have one small favor. My son, Tom, works in a different department. He’s an up and comer. Works hard but needs a mentor. Can you do me a favor and keep an eye out for him?”

I still tear up when I tell that story to people. This freaking guy was on the chopping block, and his whole focus in the moment was a) is the guy standing across from me ok? and b) making sure his kid would be alright.

7-8 years on and I’ve kept my promise to him. Still mentor his son to this day. “Kid” just took a new job - big promotion - and I was one of his first phone calls to be a sounding board on the opportunity. I learned so much that day from this old dude whose career was ending…..

(Note: plenty of other times it hasn’t gone well and has been brutally painful)

That's a cool story. Thanks for sharing

 

[fruity pebbles]

I have had to fire about ten people in my career. I think all but a couple times the person knew it was coming but even when they do it is horrible.

It is about the only thing in my career at this point I still get nervous about prior to doing it.

Only once was there a blowup. When I was a new GM at age 40 I had to fire one of my managers who was mid 50s. He berated me and said I didn’t know what I was doing and was going to fail. He was wrong

I don’t get the…..throwing a fit or breaking down crying. You’re done. Why show your *** on the way out.

 

[the moops]

Business is business, you know that and he knows that. You should be feeling relieved that he's gone, being nice only goes so far in business if you're not producing. You shouldn't let a business decision bother you after work.

This sounds like a really terrible way to go through life. Work is a huge part of our lives. If what we do at work has no effect on your personal life - well, I don;t know, that seems wrong

 

[shuke]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

It's difficult to do this in an at-will employment state becuase you are handing them grounds to disagree and sue for wrongful termination. I tend to keep it very much vague when letting them go, "we've decided to go in a different direction." If they have had performance problems before this point I've tried to address it in day to day conversations or in reviews. If they haven't fixed their issues by the time I'm firing them, it's no longer my problem.

Not to get into a debate about it, but vague phrases like “we’ve decided to go a different direction” or “it’s not a good fit” actually increase risk with respect to wrongful termination suits. If you’re firing someone because of poor performance, your best bet is to state that you’re firing them for poor performance. I agree that you shouldn’t get into all of the details of their poor performance however.

Curious why not regarding your last sentence? In my experiences, HR has had me document to the nines all the examples of poor performance, all conversations giving feedback, etc.

During performance management, you document in detail and provide concrete examples and specific expectations for improvement. During a termination meeting (after you’ve had all of the coaching sessions, performance feedback, and written documentation), you don’t get into a debate over the details. There is no upside. Only downside.

Oh, gotcha. Yup, no discussion.

 

[FatMax]

My strangest firing ... true story ...

We had this guy working for us for about a month. He was really into antique firearms. Literally, on a morning where I was gone to attend my grandmother's funeral, this guy decides to bring in a firearm into the break room, and "jokingly" point it at another employee. I got back to work and walked into a #### show. I canned him that afternoon. He thought it was OK because it wasn't functional, but I'll tell you what, it's a little weird firing a guy who you know has a gun in his car. Functional or not.

 

[fruity pebbles]

My strangest firing ... true story ...

We had this guy working for us for about a month. He was really into antique firearms. Literally, on a morning where I was gone to attend my grandmother's funeral, this guy decides to bring in a firearm into the break room, and "jokingly" point it at another employee. I got back to work and walked into a #### show. I canned him that afternoon. He thought it was OK because it wasn't functional, but I'll tell you what, it's a little weird firing a guy who you know has a gun in his car. Functional or not.

We had a guy take way too long at break, did it all the time I guess. One of his co-workers reported him and he received a written warning. He was pissed at the woman who reported him and emailed her a photo of a hostage with a hood over their head and a captor pointing a gun at them.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

My former company did a massive RIF a few years back, maybe in 2015-16. I was very new to the job, and my new boss had me fire 3 people on day 3 of the job. Zero choice on my part (he told me on day 1, long story).

One of the people I had to fire was a long time manager, beloved by the entire team. He got offered an early retirement package, he was coasting at that point, etc. But the dude had been around 35+ years.

Anyway, we didn’t know each other well but had a ton of work friends in common. We met outside the conference room where our HR person was waiting. This guy looked at me, and no joke said “Hey, APK, don’t worry about me. I’m gonna be completely fine. This company has been great to me. Don’t stress it — you’ll be ok after today APK.”

Then he went on: “If it isn’t too much to ask, I do have one small favor. My son, Tom, works in a different department. He’s an up and comer. Works hard but needs a mentor. Can you do me a favor and keep an eye out for him?”

I still tear up when I tell that story to people. This freaking guy was on the chopping block, and his whole focus in the moment was a) is the guy standing across from me ok? and b) making sure his kid would be alright.

7-8 years on and I’ve kept my promise to him. Still mentor his son to this day. “Kid” just took a new job - big promotion - and I was one of his first phone calls to be a sounding board on the opportunity. I learned so much that day from this old dude whose career was ending…..

(Note: plenty of other times it hasn’t gone well and has been brutally painful)

That's a cool story. Thanks for sharing

Flip side. Had a guy who was some type of addict. Was showing up to work looking pale, sweaty, agitated. Missed meetings and deadlines, etc etc etc. His manager was really hung up on “how can we prove he’s using drugs?” Manager just couldn’t admit that he made a bad hire.

After months and months of giving this dude chances, his luck ran out — the manager resigned, and I acted as the temporary manager for 8-12 weeks. Documented all of the guy’s crappy work and missed deadlines. Didn’t bother worrying about proving the drug issues — just fired him outright for cause. It was ugly. He begged and pleaded for the job. Said he was distracted by personal stuff. Promised to do better. I showed zero emotion and told him we were terminating him with 4 weeks pay, effective that day.

18 months later he listed me as a reference without telling me. I declined to comment. He got another job somehow, and got fired 3-6 months later. I hope he got help. Didn’t feel bad about firing him, but on a human level it was tough to see this guy destroy his life.

 

[FatMax]

I hope he got help. Didn’t feel bad about firing him, but on a human level it was tough to see this guy destroy his life.

The guy I talked about earlier who showed up hammered for the final time, he ended up getting cleaned up and is now a drug and alcohol counselor, living on the beach in San Diego. It can happen. Hope your coworker is doing ok as well. That kind of stuff tears me up.

 

[Judge Smails]

It sucks, especially in this type of market where you know it’s going to take awhile for them to land somewhere. I’ve had to let a lot of people go. It’s way easier if it’s for cause or there were performance issues. Usually in the latter case the employee is on a PIP and knows the possibility. RIF’s really suck. Nothing the employee did - you just have to cut costs. Hate those.

On the flip side I know the cost of dead wood. I give everyone a shot. But if they aren’t A or strong B players even after development efforts they won’t be in my organization for long.

 

[Chemical X]

in today’s world, if i fired someone, i wouldn’t come to the office for at least 2 weeks….kind of a cooling period.

 

[tri-man 47]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

My former company did a massive RIF a few years back, maybe in 2015-16. I was very new to the job, and my new boss had me fire 3 people on day 3 of the job. Zero choice on my part (he told me on day 1, long story).

One of the people I had to fire was a long time manager, beloved by the entire team. He got offered an early retirement package, he was coasting at that point, etc. But the dude had been around 35+ years.

Anyway, we didn’t know each other well but had a ton of work friends in common. We met outside the conference room where our HR person was waiting. This guy looked at me, and no joke said “Hey, APK, don’t worry about me. I’m gonna be completely fine. This company has been great to me. Don’t stress it — you’ll be ok after today APK.”

Then he went on: “If it isn’t too much to ask, I do have one small favor. My son, Tom, works in a different department. He’s an up and comer. Works hard but needs a mentor. Can you do me a favor and keep an eye out for him?”

I still tear up when I tell that story to people. This freaking guy was on the chopping block, and his whole focus in the moment was a) is the guy standing across from me ok? and b) making sure his kid would be alright.

7-8 years on and I’ve kept my promise to him. Still mentor his son to this day. “Kid” just took a new job - big promotion - and I was one of his first phone calls to be a sounding board on the opportunity. I learned so much that day from this old dude whose career was ending…..

(Note: plenty of other times it hasn’t gone well and has been brutally painful)

See? Listen to, and learn from, your elders.

Love the story!

 

[Terminalxylem]

My strangest firing ... true story ...

We had this guy working for us for about a month. He was really into antique firearms. Literally, on a morning where I was gone to attend my grandmother's funeral, this guy decides to bring in a firearm into the break room, and "jokingly" point it at another employee. I got back to work and walked into a #### show. I canned him that afternoon. He thought it was OK because it wasn't functional, but I'll tell you what, it's a little weird firing a guy who you know has a gun in his car. Functional or not.

We had a guy take way too long at break, did it all the time I guess. One of his co-workers reported him and he received a written warning. He was pissed at the woman who reported him and emailed her a photo of a hostage with a hood over their head and a captor pointing a gun at them.

Holy carp. How did she respond?

I think I’d involve the cops, as that has to be harassment, at the minimum.

 

[Ilov80s]

I so wish I could fire people from my job.

 

[fruity pebbles]

My strangest firing ... true story ...

We had this guy working for us for about a month. He was really into antique firearms. Literally, on a morning where I was gone to attend my grandmother's funeral, this guy decides to bring in a firearm into the break room, and "jokingly" point it at another employee. I got back to work and walked into a #### show. I canned him that afternoon. He thought it was OK because it wasn't functional, but I'll tell you what, it's a little weird firing a guy who you know has a gun in his car. Functional or not.

We had a guy take way too long at break, did it all the time I guess. One of his co-workers reported him and he received a written warning. He was pissed at the woman who reported him and emailed her a photo of a hostage with a hood over their head and a captor pointing a gun at them.

Holy carp. How did she respond?

I think I’d involve the cops, as that has to be harassment, at the minimum.

This was prob close to ten years ago, even then times were a little different. She reported him to her manager and he was fired that day. Couple months later I saw him working in the men's shoe dept at Macy's. Guy was a character. His name was Tim but he went by Tee Unit.

 

[supermike80]

For those of you who have had to let go of employees due to performance, have you ever had them ask for feedback/constructive criticism, and have you offered any? What do you say?

So in my experience I do find that generally...don't give any reason to terminate. Just do it. It definitely is cold, but you can easily say the wrong thing and have it comeback to burn you. Only once back in 2013 did I let a guy go and I did it because quite frankly I felt he was just on the wrong career path. He didn't have the skills for the job he had and I didn't see that changing. And I told him so. It was a more a "Hey I just don't see this as a long term path for you." Kind of thing. He moved on, took a job in a similar industry, but with a very different role and I believe he's done well.
Here's another tip. Never ever give a letter of recommendation to someone you have fired. I realize you might feel like you want to help that person find something else. That letter goes right to an employment lawyer who then questions why you would terminate an employee that you wrote a letter of recommendation for. Don't ever do it--that one burned me once. In an unemployment hearing but still. Big no no.

 

[zoobird]

he went by Tee Unit.

This probably should have been a red flag during the hiring process

 

[fruity pebbles]

he went by Tee Unit.

This probably should have been a red flag during the hiring process

If you have a pulse, they’ll hire you as an orderly.

 

[Grahamburn]

respect them as an individual

Amen

That's all well and good, but why are they being fired? If they had respected the job, respected their colleagues, respected customers, and/or respected their boss/ownership maybe they wouldn't be getting fired? High road and all that I know.

If it's just a simple dollars and cents business decision then I consider that a "lay off," and would hopefully be offering some sort of severance.

 

[Grahamburn]

I have had to fire about ten people in my career. I think all but a couple times the person knew it was coming but even when they do it is horrible.

It is about the only thing in my career at this point I still get nervous about prior to doing it.

Only once was there a blowup. When I was a new GM at age 40 I had to fire one of my managers who was mid 50s. He berated me and said I didn’t know what I was doing and was going to fail. He was wrong

I don’t get the…..throwing a fit or breaking down crying. You’re done. Why show your *** on the way out.

It's a pretty emotional moment. I always feel like once the words "we're letting you go" come out of my face theirs just kind of glosses over into a "what do I do now?" look where they no longer listen to anything I say anyway.

 

[Dezbelief]

Business is business, you know that and he knows that. You should be feeling relieved that he's gone, being nice only goes so far in business if you're not producing. You shouldn't let a business decision bother you after work.

This sounds like a really terrible way to go through life. Work is a huge part of our lives. If what we do at work has no effect on your personal life - well, I don;t know, that seems wrong

I'm a small business owner, who has employed almost my whole family and most of my friends at one point or another. When I hire them I let know whatever happens at work is business and shouldn't affect our relationship outside of work. I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family. Once I was at a party and sat down next to the latest person I had let go. He told I don't like you anymore. I asked why and he said because you fired me. Then his cousin sitting on the other side of him said he had been fired by me too. The host spoke up and said he had been fired before as well. We all tapped our beers together and that was that. There is little margin for error in my business and my tolerance for mistakes on the job is much tighter than in my personal life. Everyone I hire knows I'm shooting for 100% accuracy and only a few mistakes is all it takes to get shown the door.

I see no reason to bring work home. I have always believed if you are spending your personal time thinking/worrying about work you need to get a new job. No job is worth stressing over during your personal time.

 

[Dezbelief]

respect them as an individual

Amen

That's all well and good, but why are they being fired? If they had respected the job, respected their colleagues, respected customers, and/or respected their boss/ownership maybe they wouldn't be getting fired? High road and all that I know.

If it's just a simple dollars and cents business decision then I consider that a "lay off," and would hopefully be offering some sort of severance.

I find a little respect goes a long way, unless you're dealing with a narcissist. When letting someone go I try to preserve their dignity regardless of why they are in that situation. We never really know what is going on inside of other people's minds, what stresses they are secretly carrying. I try not to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I try not to be the target if they decide to vent anger.

 

[AAABatteries]

Business is business, you know that and he knows that. You should be feeling relieved that he's gone, being nice only goes so far in business if you're not producing. You shouldn't let a business decision bother you after work.

This sounds like a really terrible way to go through life. Work is a huge part of our lives. If what we do at work has no effect on your personal life - well, I don;t know, that seems wrong

I'm a small business owner, who has employed almost my whole family and most of my friends at one point or another. When I hire them I let know whatever happens at work is business and shouldn't affect our relationship outside of work. I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family. Once I was at a party and sat down next to the latest person I had let go. He told I don't like you anymore. I asked why and he said because you fired me. Then his cousin sitting on the other side of him said he had been fired by me too. The host spoke up and said he had been fired before as well. We all tapped our beers together and that was that. There is little margin for error in my business and my tolerance for mistakes on the job is much tighter than in my personal life. Everyone I hire knows I'm shooting for 100% accuracy and only a few mistakes is all it takes to get shown the door.

I see no reason to bring work home. I have always believed if you are spending your personal time thinking/worrying about work you need to get a new job. No job is worth stressing over during your personal time.

What kind of business?

 

[FatMax]

Business is business, you know that and he knows that. You should be feeling relieved that he's gone, being nice only goes so far in business if you're not producing. You shouldn't let a business decision bother you after work.

This sounds like a really terrible way to go through life. Work is a huge part of our lives. If what we do at work has no effect on your personal life - well, I don;t know, that seems wrong

I'm a small business owner, who has employed almost my whole family and most of my friends at one point or another. When I hire them I let know whatever happens at work is business and shouldn't affect our relationship outside of work. I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family. Once I was at a party and sat down next to the latest person I had let go. He told I don't like you anymore. I asked why and he said because you fired me. Then his cousin sitting on the other side of him said he had been fired by me too. The host spoke up and said he had been fired before as well. We all tapped our beers together and that was that. There is little margin for error in my business and my tolerance for mistakes on the job is much tighter than in my personal life. Everyone I hire knows I'm shooting for 100% accuracy and only a few mistakes is all it takes to get shown the door.

I see no reason to bring work home. I have always believed if you are spending your personal time thinking/worrying about work you need to get a new job. No job is worth stressing over during your personal time.

Yeah, I don't hire good friends or family for those reasons. I can't dissociate work and personal relationships easily.

 

[the moops]

I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family.

geez

 

[Dezbelief]

I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family.

geez

On the flip side I get to work with people I love.

 

[the moops]

I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family.

geez

On the flip side I get to work with people I love.

Until you fire their ***

 

[Joe Bryant]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

Yes. It sucks. No way around it.

If I've learned anything over the years, it's trying to find that balance of doing all you can to help the person succeed, but also knowing when to it's time to move on.

It's also a delicate balance between what's best for the company and what's best for the employee. Hopefully, they're the same things but sometimes they're not.

In 2008, the boat industry as a whole was down 40+%. It was a bloodbath.

We had to cut our labor force at Bryant Boats and I was the guy who had to do it. It sucked.

In every case though when I met with someone to give them a lay off, I made the honest point that my job was to keep the company alive that I hoped they would want to come back to.

You have to be fair and beyond reproach in who gets cut.

I was and I was able to make the point to each person. And if memory serves, we were able to bring back every single person we laid off. The economy improved, and we handled things in a way that made them want to come back.

And for sure, a lay off is different from letting someone go for performance reasons. That's much more difficult as there's no way around it being about them. Not the economy.

In those cases, I think it's best to be honest, empathetic and concise.

Don't belabor the point. Don't act like they're really great because you both know if you truly thought that, you wouldn't be firing them.

Let them know you're thankful for the effort they put in and that you're sorry it isn't going to work.

I've found in most cases, it's often a compatibility thing where the person might be good in another situation with another company, it's just not a fit here.

Try not to take it personally. But it's hard.

And hopefully they don't take it personally. That's hard for them too. I had a guy at Bryant Boats tell me he was going to kill me after I let him go. That wasn't out of the realm of possibility for the guy. Thankfully, he didn't succeed. But it's tough for people.

 

[scorchy]

I dabble a bit in labor law for the federal government. Frankly, more people should be fired but it’s hard to get supervisors to do the work to make it stick. Or have the fortitude to do it in the first place.

Absolutely. I think the lowest score on pretty much every agency's Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey is "management deals with poor performers." I've fired seven people in my almost 20 years as a supervisor and the amount of work that goes into making it happen also helps me sleep better because we gave every single one of them every chance to succeed and plenty of notice that they weren't. Still, felt terrible the night before for all but one:

I had inherited a poor performer who was also an unhinged jerk. I actually got permission to search his desk before giving him the ax and advised other staff to stay home the day of (without telling them why, of course). Dude freaked out and acted threatening but luckily I had called one of our agents in for backup. Fired guy ended up getting perp-walked out of the building by an armed officer. When I told everyone else in the office on a zoom call later that day, folks actually applauded. Still, it should have happened 5 years earlier but his previous supervisor was unwilling to deal with difficult issues.

 

[FatMax]

It doesn't happen often, but every now and again, I have to terminate an employee that is under-performing. It's easily the worst part of my job. I hate it. Someone once told me that firing people sucks, and it never gets easier. After fifteen years of it, this absolutely holds true.

I had to let another guy go yesterday. As a business decision, it was long overdue. But this guy is also the nicest guy in the world and on a personal level, I really liked him. He broke down crying in our meeting and I haven't stopped feeling like a piece of #### since. I had a hard time sleeping the night before last because I knew it was coming and was dreading it. And last night, after the fact, wasn't any better.

Anyway, that's all. It sucks. Anybody else been there, done that?

Yes. It sucks. No way around it.

If I've learned anything over the years, it's trying to find that balance of doing all you can to help the person succeed, but also knowing when to it's time to move on.

It's also a delicate balance between what's best for the company and what's best for the employee. Hopefully, they're the same things but sometimes they're not.

In 2008, the boat industry as a whole was down 40+%. It was a bloodbath.

We had to cut our labor force at Bryant Boats and I was the guy who had to do it. It sucked.

In every case though when I met with someone to give them a lay off, I made the honest point that my job was to keep the company alive that I hoped they would want to come back to.

You have to be fair and beyond reproach in who gets cut.

I was and I was able to make the point to each person. And if memory serves, we were able to bring back every single person we laid off. The economy improved, and we handled things in a way that made them want to come back.

And for sure, a lay off is different from letting someone go for performance reasons. That's much more difficult as there's no way around it being about them. Not the economy.

In those cases, I think it's best to be honest, empathetic and concise.

Don't belabor the point. Don't act like they're really great because you both know if you truly thought that, you wouldn't be firing them.

Let them know you're thankful for the effort they put in and that you're sorry it isn't going to work.

I've found in most cases, it's often a compatibility thing where the person might be good in another situation with another company, it's just not a fit here.

Try not to take it personally. But it's hard.

And hopefully they don't take it personally. That's hard for them too. I had a guy at Bryant Boats tell me he was going to kill me after I let him go. That wasn't out of the realm of possibility for the guy. Thankfully, he didn't succeed. But it's tough for people.

Thanks Joe. I haven't fired a ton of people. Maybe ten or so in the last 15 years. Generally speaking, we have very low turnover. I think this one hit me a little worse because he broke down in our meeting. I was NOT expecting that. Something about a grown man crying is rough for me in most cases, but being the one that caused it is worse.

Reading through others stories and struggles is kinda cathartic. I assumed that everyone hated it as much as I do, and I think I was right.

 

[ChiefD]

Thanks Joe. I haven't fired a ton of people. Maybe ten or so in the last 15 years. Generally speaking, we have very low turnover. I think this one hit me a little worse because he broke down in our meeting. I was NOT expecting that. Something about a grown man crying is rough for me in most cases, but being the one that caused it is worse.

Reading through others stories and struggles is kinda cathartic. I assumed that everyone hated it as much as I do, and I think I was right.

You didn't cause it.

 

[Jackstraw]

Just this week I had paperwork all lined up and ready to fire a cancerous employee. And they came in and resigned. :chef's kiss:

Couldn't stand up and shake her hand fast enough.

 

[FatMax]

Thanks Joe. I haven't fired a ton of people. Maybe ten or so in the last 15 years. Generally speaking, we have very low turnover. I think this one hit me a little worse because he broke down in our meeting. I was NOT expecting that. Something about a grown man crying is rough for me in most cases, but being the one that caused it is worse.

Reading through others stories and struggles is kinda cathartic. I assumed that everyone hated it as much as I do, and I think I was right.

You didn't cause it.

I know, poor choice of words. I was just blindsided.

 

[FatMax]

Just this week I had paperwork all lined up and ready to fire a cancerous employee. And they came in and resigned. :chef's kiss:

Couldn't stand up and shake her hand fast enough.

Perfect!

 

[Mookie]

I had to fire a woman in our office for being a mean person, gossiping about others, stirring up drama etc. We are government, so we have to give her a "hearing" with the department head if she wants so she can tell the department head why she doesn't think she deserves to be fired. I was a little nervous because I thought she'd come in all contrite and apologetic, and then what do we do?

Well she comes into this hearing hot, and starts trashing everyone in the room personally. No one was spared, even her closest coworker, who she accused of having affairs all over town. At the end of it, the supervisor just looked at her and said "Thanks for coming in here and proving what we already know" and she was fired.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family.

geez

On the flip side I get to work with people I love.

Until you fire their ***

You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.

 

[the moops]

I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family.

geez

On the flip side I get to work with people I love.

Until you fire their ***

You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.

But you can fire either of them!

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I have fired my dad numerous times, my brother, my best friend (he got rehired years later) and numerous other friends and family.

geez

On the flip side I get to work with people I love.

Until you fire their ***

You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.

But you can fire either of them!

It makes me regret not coming from a bigger family.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks Joe. I haven't fired a ton of people. Maybe ten or so in the last 15 years. Generally speaking, we have very low turnover. I think this one hit me a little worse because he broke down in our meeting. I was NOT expecting that. Something about a grown man crying is rough for me in most cases, but being the one that caused it is worse.

Reading through others stories and struggles is kinda cathartic. I assumed that everyone hated it as much as I do, and I think I was right.

With you GB. One thing that is important though, you had a role in this. But you didn't cause the problem.

It's a tough thing for sure. Hang in there.

 

[UncleZen]

The worst thing to do is to lecture the person you are firing. If you have done your job all along, they know the details and they don't need to be rehashed at this point. Just rip the band aid off and do it. Also, here in Florida, we are a right to work state so we don't always go into details about why someone is fired. It is the generic "as of today, we are terminating your employment." The only time we gave specific reasons is when we were questioning an employee about an issue. I had one employee threaten to "shoot a b***ch in the face" so once he admitted that is what he said, we fired him, walked him out and called the police.