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First Presidential Debate (1 Viewer)

Solid points here. Huge swing and a miss not mentioning Hillary's server when the cyber security question came up. Also spending way too many minutes defending his business instead of counter punching (i.e, go after Clinton Foundation, etc). Clear win for Hillary IMO. Not sure if will make any difference in votes.
Agreed.  Trump has no idea, I'm convinced, about how cyber security works and how that issue should have been a punching bag to hammer Hillary.  He had 2 minutes and he basically said "cyber.. in this world, we need cyber.  And it should be secure."  WTF?  It just points out the fact that he was not prepared.  

 
Trump missed so many opportunities while giving Clinton more ammo.  The worst thing I'm seeing about Clinton today is that she looks like The Joker.  An unbiased win for Clinton on this one.

 What Trump should have done:

 
A) Hammer NAFTA and HRC's ties to it.  He let up on it. NAFTA has stung millions.  She opened the door by bringing up Bill....Trump should have bum rushed it and pooped inside her house with NAFTA..... 
 
B) Sidestep the race question by making the argument that in a lot of these places, citizens are discouraged from owning legal firearms and that people of all races would be safer if the citizenry was armed.
 
C) He should have thwarted Clintons attack on him supporting Iraq by basically saying "who cares?" "You supported it....you didn't support The Surge, you supported a pullout and you called ISIS a JV team.... I was a private citizen at the time and didn't have the information needed to make a intelligent decision.  You had all the information and you failed every time". 
 
D) On the "woman are pigs" segment, he shouldn't have brought up Rosie O'Donnell....but instead said he was insulted by HRC insulting half the country with the term "deplorables" for simply wanting to exercise their right to vote.
 
E) Stop feeling the need to get the last word. Those glib remarks play well at rallys....after all, he's not trying to convince anyone to vote for him there....he already has them in the bad. They don't work in (supposedly) reformed debates.
This is the kind of stuff that could actually come to fruition if he did any legitimate debate prep. 

 
Solid points here. Huge swing and a miss not mentioning Hillary's server when the cyber security question came up. Also spending way too many minutes defending his business instead of counter punching (i.e, go after Clinton Foundation, etc). Clear win for Hillary IMO. Not sure if will make any difference in votes.

ETA: Its pretty clear the big loser is America
That's a good one that I forgot.  The cyber security question was a softball and he missed it.  It was such a cookie, HRC should have winced when the question was asked because she knew she was going to get pummelled.  

 
Agreed.  Trump has no idea, I'm convinced, about how cyber security works and how that issue should have been a punching bag to hammer Hillary.  He had 2 minutes and he basically said "cyber.. in this world, we need cyber.  And it should be secure."  WTF?  It just points out the fact that he was not prepared.  
That's the thing, she closed that down pretty effectively by saying I screwed up and I'm sorry.  Even coming from her, that blunts the attack.  If he'd have done that with the birther stuff, the taxes, etc. he'd have looked (and done) a lot better.  But his ego is too big to do so he gets mired in trying to defend himself.  

Hillary came in with an expert game plan to continually needle him with a smile and it worked.

 
Agreed.  Trump has no idea, I'm convinced, about how cyber security works and how that issue should have been a punching bag to hammer Hillary.  He had 2 minutes and he basically said "cyber.. in this world, we need cyber.  And it should be secure."  WTF?  It just points out the fact that he was not prepared.  
Trump isn't a politician and you're right, didn't prepare like one.  He's been travelling all over the country giving the same speech over and over again.  It looks like he tried to essentially give the same talking points last night, while taking a few shots at Clinton.  That strategy isn't going to work.

If he's going to try and play that strategy, he's going to have to REALLY get in the mud and sling all of Hilary's dirt out.  If he's going to try and stay above the belt and focus on the issues, he has to actually focus on the issues.  

Hilary just needs to be a solid politician and she should easily win the election.  

When it came to the emails vs the tax return, I think she was full of it, but it's so much more presidential to say "I'm Sorry" and move on.  Yeah, none of us think she was sorry, but it scored points with people who don't really follow the story.  His answers on the tax return were ok, but he didn't do himself any favors.  He should have made the point that a smart person tries to figure out how to pay as little income tax as possible (something that's ridiculous to ridicule him for) but he left that point to be made as a quippy retort while talking over her...

Overall, she won the night.  It will be interesting to see if he was holding back to see the damage and will turn things up another notch or two or just try to roll with his current strategy which looks like it will fall short.

 
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Trump isn't a politician and you're right, didn't prepare like one.  He's been travelling all over the country giving the same speech over and over again.  It looks like he tried to essentially give the same talking points last night, while taking a few shots at Clinton.  That strategy isn't going to work.

If he's going to try and play that strategy, he's going to have to REALLY get in the mud and sling all of Hilary's dirt out.  If he's going to try and stay above the belt and focus on the issues, he has to actually focus on the issues.  

Hilary just needs to be a solid politician and she should easily win the election.  

When it came to the emails vs the tax return, I think she was full of it, but it's so much more presidential to say "I'm Sorry" and move on.  Yeah, none of us think she was sorry, but it scored points with people who don't really follow the story.  His answers on the tax return were ok, but he didn't do himself any favors.  He should have made the point that a smart person tries to figure out how to pay as little income tax as possible (something that's ridiculous to ridicule him for) but he left that point to be made as a quippy retort while talking over her...

Overall, she won the night.  It will be interesting to see if he was holding back to see the damage and will turn things up another notch or two or just try to roll with his current strategy which looks like it will fall short.
Lost in all this...Trump had never face a politician in a debate as good as Hillary (for all he faults, she's historically been a very good debater).  None of the Republicans are at her level.  He wasn't prepared for someone with both the time to speak and ability to put a logical argument together and it showed.

The tax issue is going to continue to bite him.  What am I dumb for paying taxes....apparently.

 
That's the thing, she closed that down pretty effectively by saying I screwed up and I'm sorry.  Even coming from her, that blunts the attack.  If he'd have done that with the birther stuff, the taxes, etc. he'd have looked (and done) a lot better.  But his ego is too big to do so he gets mired in trying to defend himself.  

Hillary came in with an expert game plan to continually needle him with a smile and it worked.
Yep.  Even with her saying she was wrong and sorry, if he knew the subject matter he could have hammered her in front of 100 million people.  She talked about how we need to be secure in our communications and protect information, etc.  Yet she conducted sensitive communications using unsecured email on an iPhone.  Huge opportunity missed and I don't think he even realizes it this morning.  He thinks he won.  Just a moron.  

 
That's the thing, she closed that down pretty effectively by saying I screwed up and I'm sorry.  Even coming from her, that blunts the attack.  If he'd have done that with the birther stuff, the taxes, etc. he'd have looked (and done) a lot better.  But his ego is too big to do so he gets mired in trying to defend himself.  

Hillary came in with an expert game plan to continually needle him with a smile and it worked.
Exactly, it's not about whether she is sorry, it's about garnering votes.  She made a good apology.  I think it was bogus, and Trump did a pretty decent job of immediately slamming her for it, but not THAT great of a job. I think a prepared politician would have eviscerated her after her apology.  She looked nervous and guilty when he was attacking her for the emails, but his attacks were off-the-cuff and unprepared and fell way short of what a prepared attack would have been.

 
They're both so awful. Last night did nothing to convince me otherwise.

Not that this is a reason to not vote for her, but hillary's outfits are beyond ridiculous.  And I don't want to hear about that criticism being sexist. If trump showed up dressed like a character from the star wars galactic senate he'd get ripped just as much 

 
Trump isn't a politician and you're right, didn't prepare like one.  He's been travelling all over the country giving the same speech over and over again.  It looks like he tried to essentially give the same talking points last night, while taking a few shots at Clinton.  That strategy isn't going to work.

If he's going to try and play that strategy, he's going to have to REALLY get in the mud and sling all of Hilary's dirt out.  If he's going to try and stay above the belt and focus on the issues, he has to actually focus on the issues.  

Hilary just needs to be a solid politician and she should easily win the election.  

When it came to the emails vs the tax return, I think she was full of it, but it's so much more presidential to say "I'm Sorry" and move on.  Yeah, none of us think she was sorry, but it scored points with people who don't really follow the story.  His answers on the tax return were ok, but he didn't do himself any favors.  He should have made the point that a smart person tries to figure out how to pay as little income tax as possible (something that's ridiculous to ridicule him for) but he left that point to be made as a quippy retort while talking over her...

Overall, she won the night.  It will be interesting to see if he was holding back to see the damage and will turn things up another notch or two or just try to roll with his current strategy which looks like it will fall short.
His stump speeches at a Trump rally are not going to cut it on the debate stage.  I'm tired of hearing about Carrier air conditioning leaving for Mexico.  

When she was (smartly) going at him about his tax returns, she said he hiding something... maybe that he doesn't pay federal taxes.  To which Trump interrupts and retorts "which makes me smart."   

Just a dumbfounding thing to say in front of everyone watching.  I mean really, WTF?  

 
They're both so awful. Last night did nothing to convince me otherwise.

Not that this is a reason to not vote for her, but hillary's outfits are beyond ridiculous.  And I don't want to hear about that criticism being sexist. If trump showed up dressed like a character from the star wars galactic senate he'd get ripped just as much 
Definitely an Emporess Palpatine thing going on there.

 
His stump speeches at a Trump rally are not going to cut it on the debate stage.  I'm tired of hearing about Carrier air conditioning leaving for Mexico.  

When she was (smartly) going at him about his tax returns, she said he hiding something... maybe that he doesn't pay federal taxes.  To which Trump interrupts and retorts "which makes me smart."   

Just a dumbfounding thing to say in front of everyone watching.  I mean really, WTF?  
He doesn't seem to have awareness as to how that will be perceived.  He needs to unpack that a little bit and she would have looked ridiculous for bringing it up.  The entire viewing audience is full of people that try to pay as little taxes as possible (in legal ways), and if he had spent 2 minutes laying out the sound reasons why his not paying income taxes "makes me smart", he could have ended that debate for a long time.  Instead he says what he said arrogantly and scores no points.

 
They're both so awful. Last night did nothing to convince me otherwise.

Not that this is a reason to not vote for her, but hillary's outfits are beyond ridiculous.  And I don't want to hear about that criticism being sexist. If trump showed up dressed like a character from the star wars galactic senate he'd get ripped just as much 
Couldn't hurt actually, imagine how many millennials he'd get

 
He doesn't seem to have awareness as to how that will be perceived.  He needs to unpack that a little bit and she would have looked ridiculous for bringing it up.  The entire viewing audience is full of people that try to pay as little taxes as possible (in legal ways), and if he had spent 2 minutes laying out the sound reasons why his not paying income taxes "makes me smart", he could have ended that debate for a long time.  Instead he says what he said arrogantly and scores no points.
Yes, everyone tries to pay as little as possible on taxes.  The issue I, and I'd imagine a lot of middle-class Americans, have is that I'm paying abut a third of my monthly check in taxes while a billionaire gloats about paying close to (just speculating here) zero.  IMO it's not a defensible position to to just claim that "I'm just smarter than you."

 
I think the only winner of the debate last night was the person who didn't watch the #### show they are calling a debate.

I forgot it was on last night.  Bored at halftime, I started flipping and found it.  I watched for 5 mins.  I immediately regretted it and silently wept for the future of our country.  No matter which one wins, we all lose.

 
Yes, everyone tries to pay as little as possible on taxes.  The issue I, and I'd imagine a lot of middle-class Americans, have is that I'm paying abut a third of my monthly check in taxes while a billionaire gloats about paying close to (just speculating here) zero.  IMO it's not a defensible position to to just claim that "I'm just smarter than you."
Exactly.  Which is why he needs to unpack it a little and make it seem like something any reasonable person would do.  Let's be honest, Donald Trump doesn't sit in front of his TurboTax screen and figure out ways to pay as few taxes as possible. He has an accountant that uses the legal laws to do this.  Just laying the facts out would seem the smart thing to do, but he failed in that and came across as an arrogant rich guy.

 
Yes, everyone tries to pay as little as possible on taxes.  The issue I, and I'd imagine a lot of middle-class Americans, have is that I'm paying abut a third of my monthly check in taxes while a billionaire gloats about paying close to (just speculating here) zero.  IMO it's not a defensible position to to just claim that "I'm just smarter than you."
To me the obvious follow up question is "will you work to close those loopholes so the tax burden is shared more equally with middle-class America?".

 
Yes, everyone tries to pay as little as possible on taxes.  The issue I, and I'd imagine a lot of middle-class Americans, have is that I'm paying abut a third of my monthly check in taxes while a billionaire gloats about paying close to (just speculating here) zero.  IMO it's not a defensible position to to just claim that "I'm just smarter than you."
:(

Then why do you want to elect a party that wants to take even more? You're not Middle Class to poverty stricken folks, you're  a wealthy fatcat and probably were given that job because you are White! You didn't work hard and sacrifice to get where you are, you simply got lucky that you were born with the kind of skin that gets results in Texas.

How do you respond to that Igno? I like your posts and even the MOP jokes, you make me laugh at myself in here so don't be shy.  You obviously are middle class or upper middle depending on your definitions. You're a target for the Liberals, you support their party? If so, what appeals about it so I can understand better. 

-Thank You

 
Full disclosure - I was at the game last night, so I happily missed one debacle for another... however I've been reading up this morning and I have one observation, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Trump had little to no personal attacks on Hillary last night.

Nothing on Bill, nothing on her past scandals, mere mention of her emails when asked (it was revealed her chief of staff received immunity in the FBI probe just this past weekend).....

That stuff takes zero preparation. Look at the mockery he engaged in in the GOP debate - Bush, Rubio, Cruz, Christie.... they all got it.  Just slams and insults.

Why not last night? Trump respects the Clintons, he knows them, he likes them, and Chelsea and Ivanka are friends.

He's a one trick pony and he won't be doing his one trick when it matters most at his own choosing.

 
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Full disclosure - I was at the game last night, so I happily missed one debacle for another... however I've been reading up this morning and I have one observation, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Trump had little to no personal attacks on Hillary last night.

Nothing on Bill, nothing on her past scandals, mere mention of her emails when asked (it was revealed her chief of staff received immunity in the FBI probe just this past weekend).....

That stuff takes zero preparation. Look at the mockery he engaged in in the GOP debate - Bush, Rubio, Cruz, Christie.... they all got it.  Just slams and insults.

Why not last night? Trump respects the Clintons, he knows them, he likes them, and Chelsea and Ivanka are friends.

He's a one trick pony and he won't be doing his one trick when it matters most.
I think that sort of thing would have played differently last night. 

 
Full disclosure - I was at the game last night, so I happily missed one debacle for another... however I've been reading up this morning and I have one observation, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Trump had little to no personal attacks on Hillary last night.

Nothing on Bill, nothing on her past scandals, mere mention of her emails when asked (it was revealed her chief of staff received immunity in the FBI probe just this past weekend).....

That stuff takes zero preparation. Look at the mockery he engaged in in the GOP debate - Bush, Rubio, Cruz, Christie.... they all got it.  Just slams and insults.

Why not last night? Trump respects the Clintons, he knows them, he likes them, and Chelsea and Ivanka are friends.

He's a one trick pony and he won't be doing his one trick when it matters most at his own choosing.
Fascinating. I also think there is some genuine appreciation and at times it felt like Big Sister/Little Brother on stage fighting. Excellent observation. 

 
To me the obvious follow up question is "will you work to close those loopholes so the tax burden is shared more equally with middle-class America?".
Well, he spent the first third of the debate arguing that rich people need to pay less taxes so they'll stop sending jobs overseas.

 
Oh? Either way it's how he got here. Now he's not doing it. Game over. But I think he does like and respect them and views them as peers.
I think you're also overlooking the fact that one v one debates are an entirely different animal than ones with 11 people or even with three.  

 
I was surprised that Trump took it so easy on her as did Holt.  Holt is getting torched today for not asking Hillary any followups.  Hillary went negative from the start so I would expect next time the gloves will be off on the Foundation, NAFTA, Bill, Benghazi, the classified e-mails, deals with the Saudis.

And whoever dressed Clinton should be fired ASAP. When she walked out my wife said OMG...

 
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I think you're also overlooking the fact that one v one debates are an entirely different animal than ones with 11 people or even with three.  
No, I'm not overlooking that. That should increase the potential for such tactics, not decrease them. He mocked Cruz and Kasich in the same manner in more limited debates right up to the end.

Hillary is the richest vein of all and yet he did zip on it. When was Donald ever prepared for a debate? What policy issue did he win on in the GOP debates? Arguably maybe the one policy issue he won on in this debate which is trade/TPP (which I agree with Hillary on btw).

Everyone has been rightly saying Trump has been a reality TV candidacy. I hate to break it to people but aside from those who tuned in to see Hillary make Donald look dumb, a lot of America tuned in to see the throwdown for the ages, a record audience wasn't there for the policy wonking. They wanted to see personal confrontation, he did not give it to them.

 
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I was surprised that Trump took it so easy on her as did Holt.  Holt is getting torched today for not asking Hillary any followups.  Hillary went negative from the start so I would expect next time the gloves will be off on the Foundation, NAFTA, Bill, Benghazi, the classified e-mails, deals with the Saudis.
Seriously, that's Donald's job.

 
Yes, everyone tries to pay as little as possible on taxes.  The issue I, and I'd imagine a lot of middle-class Americans, have is that I'm paying abut a third of my monthly check in taxes while a billionaire gloats about paying close to (just speculating here) zero.  IMO it's not a defensible position to to just claim that "I'm just smarter than you."
Plus he's going to want to spend Federal money on the military, on infrastructure (obviously not the wall) etc. Where does he think that money comes from? It comes from Federal taxes which he just said people (and corporations obviously) are stupid to pay. Aims gun at foot, fires

 
I think you're also overlooking the fact that one v one debates are an entirely different animal than ones with 11 people or even with three.  
I wouldn't call that a one on one debate. When he's asked questions such as "Will you show us your tax returns", "Do you think Obama is a naturally born citizen", and "Will you support Hillary if she wins", his responses aren't a debate with Hillary. Lester and HIllary could have stood together behind the podium, asked those questions, sat back and listened and Trump would look bad trying to answer them. 

 
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I wouldn't call that a one on one debate. When he's asked questions such as "Will you show us your tax returns", "Do you think Obama is a naturally born citizen", and "Will you support Hillary if she wins", his responses aren't a debate with Hillary. Lester and HIllary could have stood together behind the podium, asked those questions, sat back and listened and Trump would like bad trying to answer them. 
Please...even a half-wit knows how to parry those questions effectively.  The fact he couldn't and didn't should tell you all you need to know about him.  

 
Please...even a half-wit knows how to parry those questions effectively.  The fact he couldn't and didn't should tell you all you need to know about him.  
I agree. He's an idiot, and I will never vote for him. I'm voting for Johnson. I was expecting BOTH of them to look bad last night, but Lester's choice of questions didn't present much risk to Hillary. Again I would have preferred a real one on one debate because both of them would come out looking bad. Too many of the questions sucked last night. There were much better questions that should have been asked. 

 
I wouldn't call that a one on one debate. When he's asked questions such as "Will you show us your tax returns", "Do you think Obama is a naturally born citizen", and "Will you support Hillary if she wins", his responses aren't a debate with Hillary. Lester and HIllary could have stood together behind the podium, asked those questions, sat back and listened and Trump would look bad trying to answer them. 
That wasn't the question - and its important to get that one right. Holt asked each candidate if they would accept the results of the election. And that's remarkable in the US that he had to ask that. But it was a direct response to Trump going on and on about how the election is going to be rigged (with no evidence, of course, to back up that claim). 

 
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Trump wants to have one of the biggest tax cuts in the history of the country, but wants to increase spending on the military and spending to improve the infrastructure. Where is that money coming from? We already know Trump isn't contributing to those things.

 

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