Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[SacramentoBob]

Well, this has taken a strange turn. I said April 10th would be the day of new news.

 

[SacramentoBob]

So is this guy officially making moves OJ style at this point?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If the shooter was white, and the dead guys are black, then the shooter is racist. Not sure if it works the other way around.

Tim? Knuckles?

Let's correct a few points:1. I have not accused Zimmerman of being a racist. I don't know if he is or if he isn't. I wrote that a certain amount of the evidence points to the fact that he might be. But even this is in dispute, and I'm sure none of you want to hear all of it again.

2. What I did write is that there is a pattern of racist behavior by the Sanford police in the past, and that the vast majority of blacks who live in Sanford, according to CNN, believe the police is racist, and that there is certainly a history of institutionalized racism in the country involving police forces. Whether or not any of these matters have had a direct result on this incident is a matter of opinion: I say it does, but many people disagree with me.

3. I think you're right when you point out the hypocrisy of Al Sharpton and other black "leaders" not rushing to the scene when the culprit of one of these incidents is a black man. Sharpton and the like aren't interested in this sort of crime; they're only interested in those crimes which will serve to strengthen their claim of an unjust society. However, while this is a fair criticism of Sharpton, it doesn't mean that his central claims about this particular case (and about the injustices he chooses to focus on) are any less valid.

Wouldn't institutionalized racism work against any black shooter, regardless of what color the people he shot were? Looks like the shooter in this case is black, shouldn't a racist police department have assumed he was guilty of murder based on his skin color?

Luckily the accusation of institutional racism is a fickle mistress. While it can be used to assert that a black criminal can't get a fair shake from The Man when the victim is white, it actually works in favor of black criminals when the victim is black because The Man doesn't care about black victims.

I know that is the argument.. But if the police department really was racist, they would take any opportunity possible to lock up a black man.. Unless maybe they're hoping he'll shoot more black people as a result of getting off and being free to shoot again.. Please tell me that's not the argument..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

State Attorney Angela Corey to make an important announcment in 72 hours

 

[TexanFan02]

State Attorney Angela Corey to make an important announcment in 72 hours

Zimmerman taking over as acting Police Chief. Skittles fans beware.

 

[SacramentoBob]

State Attorney Angela Corey to make an important announcment in 72 hours

This has taken on an HBO-like quality.

 

[Sinn Fein]

State Attorney Angela Corey to make an important announcment in 72 hours

Lebron taking notes?

 

[Clifford]

Man tells police group yelled ‘Trayvon,' then beat him

By Chad Smith

Staff writer

Published: Monday, April 9, 2012 at 2:09 p.m.

Last Modified: Monday, April 9, 2012 at 10:26 p.m.

Police are investigating the “racially motivated” beating of a 27-year-old man who was walking home from midtown bars early Saturday when he said he was jumped by five to eight men who shouted “Trayvon” before the attack.

The exclamation was an apparent reference to Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old from Miami who was shot and killed in February walking back to his father’s girlfriend’s house in Sanford.

His shooter, George Zimmerman, has not been charged.

The case of Martin, an unarmed black teenager who was killed by Zimmerman, a Hispanic crime-watch volunteer, has stirred conversations across the country about race, crime and profiling.

Investigators believe that case was the catalyst for the beating Saturday in Gainesville.

“We do believe that the crime was racially motivated,” Gainesville Police Department spokeswoman Cpl. Angelina Valuri said.

The assailants were black, while the victim is white, Valuri said.

She said the victim had been drinking and could not provide a description of the attackers or their vehicle, only that it was a mid-size vehicle.

But Valuri said his injuries were consistent with being jumped by a group.

During what he told police was a five-minute beating, he sustained injuries to the left eye, abrasions to his palms and a cut on his right kneecap, and Valuri said he would likely have “permanent disfigurement to the left side of his face.”

He was taken to Shands at the University of Florida for treatment.

The attack occurred at about 2:45 a.m. in the 3200 block of Southwest 23rd Terrace.

The victim told police that a vehicle was coming east on Southwest 32nd Place when it stopped at 23rd Terrace.

A group of men got out and told him he was walking too slowly, the victim told police.

They then yelled “Trayvon,” according to a GPD report, and proceeded to beat him.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120409/ARTICLES/120409617/1182?Title=Man-tells-police-group-yelled-8216-Trayvon-then-beat-him

Aren't we supposed to be waiting for all the facts before we determine what happened in this incident?

Pretty F-d up situation.. Guy has nothing to do with it, and gets permently disfigured.. If it is the way it sounds, the guys responsible could be looking at federal time..

Yeah, the guys should have shot him. That way they could all claim self defense.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Man tells police group yelled ‘Trayvon,' then beat him

By Chad Smith

Staff writer

Published: Monday, April 9, 2012 at 2:09 p.m.

Last Modified: Monday, April 9, 2012 at 10:26 p.m.

Police are investigating the “racially motivated” beating of a 27-year-old man who was walking home from midtown bars early Saturday when he said he was jumped by five to eight men who shouted “Trayvon” before the attack.

The exclamation was an apparent reference to Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old from Miami who was shot and killed in February walking back to his father’s girlfriend’s house in Sanford.

His shooter, George Zimmerman, has not been charged.

The case of Martin, an unarmed black teenager who was killed by Zimmerman, a Hispanic crime-watch volunteer, has stirred conversations across the country about race, crime and profiling.

Investigators believe that case was the catalyst for the beating Saturday in Gainesville.

“We do believe that the crime was racially motivated,” Gainesville Police Department spokeswoman Cpl. Angelina Valuri said.

The assailants were black, while the victim is white, Valuri said.

She said the victim had been drinking and could not provide a description of the attackers or their vehicle, only that it was a mid-size vehicle.

But Valuri said his injuries were consistent with being jumped by a group.

During what he told police was a five-minute beating, he sustained injuries to the left eye, abrasions to his palms and a cut on his right kneecap, and Valuri said he would likely have “permanent disfigurement to the left side of his face.”

He was taken to Shands at the University of Florida for treatment.

The attack occurred at about 2:45 a.m. in the 3200 block of Southwest 23rd Terrace.

The victim told police that a vehicle was coming east on Southwest 32nd Place when it stopped at 23rd Terrace.

A group of men got out and told him he was walking too slowly, the victim told police.

They then yelled “Trayvon,” according to a GPD report, and proceeded to beat him.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120409/ARTICLES/120409617/1182?Title=Man-tells-police-group-yelled-8216-Trayvon-then-beat-him

Aren't we supposed to be waiting for all the facts before we determine what happened in this incident?

Pretty F-d up situation.. Guy has nothing to do with it, and gets permently disfigured.. If it is the way it sounds, the guys responsible could be looking at federal time..

Yeah, the guys should have shot him. That way they could all claim self defense.

It really does boil down to who gets who first...and dont leave a witness.

 

[Witz]

George Zimmerman’s (former) attorneys have just held a remarkable press conference in which they announced they would no longer represent the man who shot and killed teenager Trayvon Martin.They said their client hasn’t answered their calls or text messages since Sunday, and as such have decided they cannot represent a man who does not want their services.And in the most bizarre bit of the theater — they said their ex-client had reached out to Fox News’ Sean Hannity directly for an off-the-record conversation against their advice.

Wait - so they haven't spoken with their client in a day and a half and that's what pushed them over the edge to bail? It's not like he was in jail, arrested or had just had charges filed against him. Looks like the scrutiny was getting to be too much for these guys and they bailed the first chance they had.

 

[TexanFan02]

George Zimmerman’s (former) attorneys have just held a remarkable press conference in which they announced they would no longer represent the man who shot and killed teenager Trayvon Martin.They said their client hasn’t answered their calls or text messages since Sunday, and as such have decided they cannot represent a man who does not want their services.And in the most bizarre bit of the theater — they said their ex-client had reached out to Fox News’ Sean Hannity directly for an off-the-record conversation against their advice.

Wait - so they haven't spoken with their client in a day and a half and that's what pushed them over the edge to bail? It's not like he was in jail, arrested or had just had charges filed against him. Looks like the scrutiny was getting to be too much for these guys and they bailed the first chance they had.

Zimmerman is talking to the Prosecutors office and possibly others against their advice. And he won't talk to them. I don't blame them a bit for getting out, they could have ethics issues.

 

[jon_mx]

Relax.

I've said all I'm going to say about race.....But we've goine round and round on the racial aspect. I realize most of you are sick and tired of talking about it. I know I am. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

If the shooter was white, and the dead guys are black, then the shooter is racist. Not sure if it works the other way around.

Tim? Knuckles?

Let's correct a few points:1. I have not accused Zimmerman of being a racist. I don't know if he is or if he isn't. I wrote that a certain amount of the evidence points to the fact that he might be. But even this is in dispute, and I'm sure none of you want to hear all of it again.

2. What I did write is that there is a pattern of racist behavior by the Sanford police in the past, and that the vast majority of blacks who live in Sanford, according to CNN, believe the police is racist, and that there is certainly a history of institutionalized racism in the country involving police forces. Whether or not any of these matters have had a direct result on this incident is a matter of opinion: I say it does, but many people disagree with me.

3. I think you're right when you point out the hypocrisy of Al Sharpton and other black "leaders" not rushing to the scene when the culprit of one of these incidents is a black man. Sharpton and the like aren't interested in this sort of crime; they're only interested in those crimes which will serve to strengthen their claim of an unjust society. However, while this is a fair criticism of Sharpton, it doesn't mean that his central claims about this particular case (and about the injustices he chooses to focus on) are any less valid.

 

[Clifford]

They got their free commercial out of it.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Man tells police group yelled ‘Trayvon,' then beat him

By Chad Smith

Staff writer

Published: Monday, April 9, 2012 at 2:09 p.m.

Last Modified: Monday, April 9, 2012 at 10:26 p.m.

Police are investigating the “racially motivated” beating of a 27-year-old man who was walking home from midtown bars early Saturday when he said he was jumped by five to eight men who shouted “Trayvon” before the attack.

The exclamation was an apparent reference to Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old from Miami who was shot and killed in February walking back to his father’s girlfriend’s house in Sanford.

His shooter, George Zimmerman, has not been charged.

The case of Martin, an unarmed black teenager who was killed by Zimmerman, a Hispanic crime-watch volunteer, has stirred conversations across the country about race, crime and profiling.

Investigators believe that case was the catalyst for the beating Saturday in Gainesville.

“We do believe that the crime was racially motivated,” Gainesville Police Department spokeswoman Cpl. Angelina Valuri said.

The assailants were black, while the victim is white, Valuri said.

She said the victim had been drinking and could not provide a description of the attackers or their vehicle, only that it was a mid-size vehicle.

But Valuri said his injuries were consistent with being jumped by a group.

During what he told police was a five-minute beating, he sustained injuries to the left eye, abrasions to his palms and a cut on his right kneecap, and Valuri said he would likely have “permanent disfigurement to the left side of his face.”

He was taken to Shands at the University of Florida for treatment.

The attack occurred at about 2:45 a.m. in the 3200 block of Southwest 23rd Terrace.

The victim told police that a vehicle was coming east on Southwest 32nd Place when it stopped at 23rd Terrace.

A group of men got out and told him he was walking too slowly, the victim told police.

They then yelled “Trayvon,” according to a GPD report, and proceeded to beat him.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120409/ARTICLES/120409617/1182?Title=Man-tells-police-group-yelled-8216-Trayvon-then-beat-him

Aren't we supposed to be waiting for all the facts before we determine what happened in this incident?

Pretty F-d up situation.. Guy has nothing to do with it, and gets permanently disfigured.. If it is the way it sounds, the guys responsible could be looking at federal time..

Yeah, the guys should have shot him. That way they could all claim self defense.

No, that wouldn't work.. Black on White crime.. Remember? It's institutionally indefensible..The only thing that could have saved them is if they were either carrying a bag of skittles, which proves innocence, or if the victim was black, in which case the police condone the violence..

You having a hard time keeping up?

 

[Clifford]

Yeah, but if the other guy is dead, how can he prove he's white?

You know, there are people in eastern Europe who can't even afford one period to end their sentences. Just sayin.

 

[Christo]

George Zimmerman’s (former) attorneys have just held a remarkable press conference in which they announced they would no longer represent the man who shot and killed teenager Trayvon Martin.They said their client hasn’t answered their calls or text messages since Sunday, and as such have decided they cannot represent a man who does not want their services.And in the most bizarre bit of the theater — they said their ex-client had reached out to Fox News’ Sean Hannity directly for an off-the-record conversation against their advice.

Wait - so they haven't spoken with their client in a day and a half and that's what pushed them over the edge to bail? It's not like he was in jail, arrested or had just had charges filed against him. Looks like the scrutiny was getting to be too much for these guys and they bailed the first chance they had.

If I found out my client contacted opposing counsel on his own, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yeah, but if the other guy is dead, how can he prove he's white?

The white guy was the victim.. I think a dead white guy, is proof that the dead guy is white.. Maybe...?I think I'm going to carry a bag of skittles with me everywhere I go now, in case I ever get in a scrape. You never know when you'll need proof of innocence..

 

[Courtjester]

George Zimmerman’s (former) attorneys have just held a remarkable press conference in which they announced they would no longer represent the man who shot and killed teenager Trayvon Martin.They said their client hasn’t answered their calls or text messages since Sunday, and as such have decided they cannot represent a man who does not want their services.And in the most bizarre bit of the theater — they said their ex-client had reached out to Fox News’ Sean Hannity directly for an off-the-record conversation against their advice.

Wait - so they haven't spoken with their client in a day and a half and that's what pushed them over the edge to bail? It's not like he was in jail, arrested or had just had charges filed against him. Looks like the scrutiny was getting to be too much for these guys and they bailed the first chance they had.

Zimmerman is talking to the Prosecutors office and possibly others against their advice. And he won't talk to them. I don't blame them a bit for getting out, they could have ethics issues.

I would be wondering about the ethics issue for them as well. Attorneys withdraw every day, but to hold a public circus like that is really, really questionable. And the fact there isn't even a physical case file that they have entered a paper entry on makes their "formal withdrawal" really weird.Also this really could backfire on Zimmerman because if the prosecutor is leaning towards charges, then a lawyer saying we don't know what our client is up to, may very well expedite an arrest to make sure the DA knows where he is. ORZimmerman's defense team may have been given an early leak as to no-charges being filed. If that is the case, I would want to get away as fast as I could, as well, so my offices do not become the targets of the people who are going to lose their minds when that decision is handed down.Still a bizarre day in a bizarre case.

 

[timschochet]

Relax.

I've said all I'm going to say about race.....But we've goine round and round on the racial aspect. I realize most of you are sick and tired of talking about it. I know I am. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

If the shooter was white, and the dead guys are black, then the shooter is racist. Not sure if it works the other way around.

Tim? Knuckles?

Let's correct a few points:1. I have not accused Zimmerman of being a racist. I don't know if he is or if he isn't. I wrote that a certain amount of the evidence points to the fact that he might be. But even this is in dispute, and I'm sure none of you want to hear all of it again.

2. What I did write is that there is a pattern of racist behavior by the Sanford police in the past, and that the vast majority of blacks who live in Sanford, according to CNN, believe the police is racist, and that there is certainly a history of institutionalized racism in the country involving police forces. Whether or not any of these matters have had a direct result on this incident is a matter of opinion: I say it does, but many people disagree with me.

3. I think you're right when you point out the hypocrisy of Al Sharpton and other black "leaders" not rushing to the scene when the culprit of one of these incidents is a black man. Sharpton and the like aren't interested in this sort of crime; they're only interested in those crimes which will serve to strengthen their claim of an unjust society. However, while this is a fair criticism of Sharpton, it doesn't mean that his central claims about this particular case (and about the injustices he chooses to focus on) are any less valid.

Come on, dude. That was in response to a mischaracterization of something I had previously written. Just setting the record straight. I was not raising a new issue. I don't intend to engage in a discussion on this point unless something new occurs which affects my perception (or anyone else's) of the events in question.

 

[timschochet]

If I found out my client contacted opposing counsel on his own, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

Suppose, though, you were the sort of attorney who's always sought fame and fortune, and you've never had a client like this one, and never will again? This client guarantees you frequent appearances on network television, a big juicy trial, probably a book deal when its all over. If you give him up, it's all gone. I could see how that kind of attorney would cling to this client no matter what the client did.

 

[TexanFan02]

If I found out my client contacted opposing counsel on his own, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

Suppose, though, you were the sort of attorney who's always sought fame and fortune, and you've never had a client like this one, and never will again? This client guarantees you frequent appearances on network television, a big juicy trial, probably a book deal when its all over. If you give him up, it's all gone. I could see how that kind of attorney would cling to this client no matter what the client did.

No Attorney would keep a client that was doing that, Christo's right. It would be career suicide, who knows what nut job Zimmerman is telling the Prosecutor that he's not telling his Attorneys.

 

[Chaos Commish]

If I found out my client contacted opposing counsel on his own, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

Suppose, though, you were the sort of attorney who's always sought fame and fortune, and you've never had a client like this one, and never will again? This client guarantees you frequent appearances on network television, a big juicy trial, probably a book deal when its all over. If you give him up, it's all gone. I could see how that kind of attorney would cling to this client no matter what the client did.

No Attorney would keep a client that was doing that, Christo's right. It would be career suicide, who knows what nut job Zimmerman is telling the Prosecutor that he's not telling his Attorneys.

He called Sean Hannity? I want my money back.

 

[Slapdash]

So strange.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Suicide watch is right around the corner.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

He called Sean Hannity? I want my money back.

 

[TexanFan02]

Suicide watch is right around the corner.

Maybe. I think he has delusions of grandeur.

 

[HellToupee]

Today I decided to unfollow every blogger on twitter wearing a hoodie in their avatar. Lame

 

[phrozen]

So strange.

Should bring another 81 pages to the thread.

 

[identikit]

Today I decided to unfollow every blogger on twitter wearing a hoodie in their avatar. Lame

I've been tempted to as well.

 

[HellToupee]

Today I decided to unfollow every blogger on twitter wearing a hoodie in their avatar. Lame

I've been tempted to as well.

I like Garda but he's

 

[Yenrub]

I think he should try to copyright White-Hispanic.

Did you fill out a census form in 2010? Been to the doctor lately?

Yes. How hard is if for people to understand you can be white and hispanic. Hispanic is an ethnicity.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I think he should try to copyright White-Hispanic.

Did you fill out a census form in 2010? Been to the doctor lately?

Yes. How hard is if for people to understand you can be white and hispanic. Hispanic is an ethnicity.

And how hard is it to understand that people are glossing over the Hispanic part to make it a white-black issue, when anyone on earth describing Zimmerman before this occurred would have called him Hispanic?

 

[identikit]

Today I decided to unfollow every blogger on twitter wearing a hoodie in their avatar. Lame

I've been tempted to as well.

I like Garda but he's

Bunch of lemmings.Like wearing ribbons/Kramer

 

[SacramentoBob]

A white guy is a white guy, no matter what country he's from.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Suicide watch is right around the corner.

Maybe. I think he has delusions of grandeur.

And he is out of Florida? Do we still think he will just turn himself in when the time comes?

 

[timschochet]

Here's what I'm wondering (and keep in mind, this is just speculation): does Angela Corey have proof that she can demonstrate to a jury that the screaming on that tape is, in fact, Trayvon Martin?

Because if she has proof of that, then it seems to me that should be enough to convict Zimmerman. If Martin were the one screaming, "No! No!" then it doesn't matter if Martin was the one who attacked first. It wouldn't matter who is the aggressor, because it would prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand, could have held Martin at bay until the police arrived, or could have simply left the scene. The point is, he did not need to shoot Martin. Therefore, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

So if Corey can provide expert testimony or some other means to convince a jury that the screams were from Martin, I think that's enough. But I don't know if she has the means to prove this...

 

[jon_mx]

Here's what I'm wondering (and keep in mind, this is just speculation): does Angela Corey have proof that she can demonstrate to a jury that the screaming on that tape is, in fact, Trayvon Martin?

Because if she has proof of that, then it seems to me that should be enough to convict Zimmerman. If Martin were the one screaming, "No! No!" then it doesn't matter if Martin was the one who attacked first. It wouldn't matter who is the aggressor, because it would prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand, could have held Martin at bay until the police arrived, or could have simply left the scene. The point is, he did not need to shoot Martin. Therefore, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

So if Corey can provide expert testimony or some other means to convince a jury that the screams were from Martin, I think that's enough. But I don't know if she has the means to prove this...

What she has to prove is up to the jury. If I was on the jury, your reasoning does not even come close to proving beyoud a reasonable doubt that Treyvon was retreating. I would need good eyewitness accounts in addition to that. Plus, the case law concerning stand you ground is probably different than most states, so the bar is probably a bit lower for when you can pull the trigger. If the case above where no charges were file against the guy who had to go to the car to get his gun and than shoot perpetrators who were hiding is any indication, the standard to when you can leathally use self-defense is really low, so a scream would not be enough.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Here's what I'm wondering (and keep in mind, this is just speculation): does Angela Corey have proof that she can demonstrate to a jury that the screaming on that tape is, in fact, Trayvon Martin?

Because if she has proof of that, then it seems to me that should be enough to convict Zimmerman. If Martin were the one screaming, "No! No!" then it doesn't matter if Martin was the one who attacked first. It wouldn't matter who is the aggressor, because it would prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand, could have held Martin at bay until the police arrived, or could have simply left the scene. The point is, he did not need to shoot Martin. Therefore, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

So if Corey can provide expert testimony or some other means to convince a jury that the screams were from Martin, I think that's enough. But I don't know if she has the means to prove this...

What she has to prove is up to the jury. If I was on the jury, your reasoning does not even come close to proving beyoud a reasonable doubt that Treyvon was retreating. I would need good eyewitness accounts in addition to that. Plus, the case law concerning stand you ground is probably different than most states, so the bar is probably a bit lower for when you can pull the trigger. If the case above where no charges were file against the guy who had to go to the car to get his gun and than shoot perpetrators who were hiding is any indication, the standard to when you can leathally use self-defense is really low, so a scream would not be enough.

You're right, screams don't prove he was trying to flee, but it would be rather damaging to Zimmermans case. At least at that point, Zimmerman couldn't say he was screaming for help. And anyone trying to say he was, Zimmerman, John, would be lying.. That would also hurt his case..I guess an argument could be made that screams, from either party could indicate that they were fighting over the gun, and that either of them would have shot the other once in control of the weapon.. Both scared for their lives...

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Here's what I'm wondering (and keep in mind, this is just speculation): does Angela Corey have proof that she can demonstrate to a jury that the screaming on that tape is, in fact, Trayvon Martin?

Because if she has proof of that, then it seems to me that should be enough to convict Zimmerman. If Martin were the one screaming, "No! No!" then it doesn't matter if Martin was the one who attacked first. It wouldn't matter who is the aggressor, because it would prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand, could have held Martin at bay until the police arrived, or could have simply left the scene. The point is, he did not need to shoot Martin. Therefore, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

So if Corey can provide expert testimony or some other means to convince a jury that the screams were from Martin, I think that's enough. But I don't know if she has the means to prove this...

What she has to prove is up to the jury. If I was on the jury, your reasoning does not even come close to proving beyoud a reasonable doubt that Treyvon was retreating. I would need good eyewitness accounts in addition to that. Plus, the case law concerning stand you ground is probably different than most states, so the bar is probably a bit lower for when you can pull the trigger. If the case above where no charges were file against the guy who had to go to the car to get his gun and than shoot perpetrators who were hiding is any indication, the standard to when you can leathally use self-defense is really low, so a scream would not be enough.

The problem with asking this question is where you`re asking it (FBG)...we have 2 very wide divides here and it seems like no matter what evidence or possible evidence that comes to light, not to many people are willing to cross that divide.If you had an impartial jury who heard this case for the first time i couldnt imagine that too many people would dismiss those screams , if proven to be treyvon, and set zimmerman free. The problem for zimmerman is he brought the gun to that party, i think that may work against him even if it was him screaming and not trey. Im convinced (they lasted way to long ) the screams were not from someone being beaten but from someone who is trying not to get shot. That could be either trey or george.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Here's what I'm wondering (and keep in mind, this is just speculation): does Angela Corey have proof that she can demonstrate to a jury that the screaming on that tape is, in fact, Trayvon Martin?

Because if she has proof of that, then it seems to me that should be enough to convict Zimmerman. If Martin were the one screaming, "No! No!" then it doesn't matter if Martin was the one who attacked first. It wouldn't matter who is the aggressor, because it would prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand, could have held Martin at bay until the police arrived, or could have simply left the scene. The point is, he did not need to shoot Martin. Therefore, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

So if Corey can provide expert testimony or some other means to convince a jury that the screams were from Martin, I think that's enough. But I don't know if she has the means to prove this...

if she had such proof i think it would be pretty tough to ignore. It would mean he lied and it would mean that the jury would have to ignore the screams of a 17 year old played over and over. I do not believe such proof exists though. The two voice experts already discussed seem to contradict themselves.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Anyone know if Zimmerman owns a white Bronco?

 

[VA703]

A white guy is a white guy, no matter what country he's from.

and a black guy can be a african american or whatever they want to call it these days

 

[kentric]

Here's what I'm wondering (and keep in mind, this is just speculation): does Angela Corey have proof that she can demonstrate to a jury that the screaming on that tape is, in fact, Trayvon Martin?

Because if she has proof of that, then it seems to me that should be enough to convict Zimmerman. If Martin were the one screaming, "No! No!" then it doesn't matter if Martin was the one who attacked first. It wouldn't matter who is the aggressor, because it would prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand, could have held Martin at bay until the police arrived, or could have simply left the scene. The point is, he did not need to shoot Martin. Therefore, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

So if Corey can provide expert testimony or some other means to convince a jury that the screams were from Martin, I think that's enough. But I don't know if she has the means to prove this...

What she has to prove is up to the jury. If I was on the jury, your reasoning does not even come close to proving beyoud a reasonable doubt that Treyvon was retreating. I would need good eyewitness accounts in addition to that. Plus, the case law concerning stand you ground is probably different than most states, so the bar is probably a bit lower for when you can pull the trigger. If the case above where no charges were file against the guy who had to go to the car to get his gun and than shoot perpetrators who were hiding is any indication, the standard to when you can leathally use self-defense is really low, so a scream would not be enough.

The problem with asking this question is where you`re asking it (FBG)...we have 2 very wide divides here and it seems like no matter what evidence or possible evidence that comes to light, not to many people are willing to cross that divide.If you had an impartial jury who heard this case for the first time i couldnt imagine that too many people would dismiss those screams , if proven to be treyvon, and set zimmerman free. The problem for zimmerman is he brought the gun to that party, i think that may work against him even if it was him screaming and not trey. Im convinced (they lasted way to long ) the screams were not from someone being beaten but from someone who is trying not to get shot. That could be either trey or george.

The screams seem to have gone on for at least 10 seconds. Are you trying to say that someone would be screaming for help for 10 seconds because he had a gun pointed at him? That goes against the eyewitness accounts (with one man on top of another). Tough argument you're trying to make here.

 

[Charlie Frown]

There must be something in the water in Florida.

 

[timschochet]

Here's what I'm wondering (and keep in mind, this is just speculation): does Angela Corey have proof that she can demonstrate to a jury that the screaming on that tape is, in fact, Trayvon Martin?

Because if she has proof of that, then it seems to me that should be enough to convict Zimmerman. If Martin were the one screaming, "No! No!" then it doesn't matter if Martin was the one who attacked first. It wouldn't matter who is the aggressor, because it would prove that Zimmerman had the upper hand, could have held Martin at bay until the police arrived, or could have simply left the scene. The point is, he did not need to shoot Martin. Therefore, Zimmerman is definitely guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

So if Corey can provide expert testimony or some other means to convince a jury that the screams were from Martin, I think that's enough. But I don't know if she has the means to prove this...

What she has to prove is up to the jury. If I was on the jury, your reasoning does not even come close to proving beyoud a reasonable doubt that Treyvon was retreating. I would need good eyewitness accounts in addition to that. Plus, the case law concerning stand you ground is probably different than most states, so the bar is probably a bit lower for when you can pull the trigger. If the case above where no charges were file against the guy who had to go to the car to get his gun and than shoot perpetrators who were hiding is any indication, the standard to when you can leathally use self-defense is really low, so a scream would not be enough.

I don't pretend to understand all of the points of the "Stand Your Ground" law. But whether or not Trayvon was retreating seems irrelevant to me. The main question I would have as a juror is: was it necessary for Zimmerman to pull that trigger? If the answer is yes, or even if I reached a conclusion where I believed Zimmerman THOUGHT it was yes, I would acquit him. But if the screams are Trayvon's on that tape, then I think the answer to that question is no and I have trouble coming up with a scenario in which it could be otherwise. If the screams are Tray's I vote to convict.

 

[Witz]

Sorry if this has been noted earlier in this massive thread but has there been any information released on the trajectory the bullet took?

Was it going from down to upwards (as if Zimmerman shot him while on the ground and Martin was over him), was it the other way (with Zimmerman standing over Martin) or was it straight onward (meaning they were both standing)?

 

[timschochet]

This ought to irritate some people here, for sure:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HOLDER_TRAYVON_MARTIN?SITE=WUSA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-11-09-52-19

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday that the Justice Department will take appropriate action in the killing of Trayvon Martin if it finds evidence that a federal criminal civil rights crime has been committed. The attorney general made the comment in an appearance before a civil rights organization founded by the Rev. Al Sharpton.

Holder says the department will conduct a thorough and independent review of the evidence in the Martin matter.

The attorney general says one of the department's top priorities is preventing and combating youth violence and victimization.

The Justice Department launched an investigation of the killing three weeks ago.

Holder told the 14th annual convention of the National Action Network that "many of you are greatly - and rightly - concerned" about the shooting death of the 17-year-old Martin.

The attorney general says that Justice Department officials including Tom Perez, the assistant attorney general for the civil rights division, and U.S. Attorney Robert O'Neill from Florida have traveled to Sanford to meet with the Martin family, members of the community and local authorities.

He says representatives from the department's Community Relations Service are meeting with civil rights leaders, law enforcement officers and residents to address community tensions.

 

[identikit]

This ought to irritate some people here, for sure:

http://hosted.ap.org...-04-11-09-52-19

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday that the Justice Department will take appropriate action in the killing of Trayvon Martin if it finds evidence that a federal criminal civil rights crime has been committed. The attorney general made the comment in an appearance before a civil rights organization founded by the Rev. Al Sharpton.

Holder says the department will conduct a thorough and independent review of the evidence in the Martin matter.

The attorney general says one of the department's top priorities is preventing and combating youth violence and victimization.

The Justice Department launched an investigation of the killing three weeks ago.

Holder told the 14th annual convention of the National Action Network that "many of you are greatly - and rightly - concerned" about the shooting death of the 17-year-old Martin.

The attorney general says that Justice Department officials including Tom Perez, the assistant attorney general for the civil rights division, and U.S. Attorney Robert O'Neill from Florida have traveled to Sanford to meet with the Martin family, members of the community and local authorities.

He says representatives from the department's Community Relations Service are meeting with civil rights leaders, law enforcement officers and residents to address community tensions.

I'm not shocked.

 

[timschochet]

Wow. I don't hate Eric Holder like some of you guys (though if the charges are true that conservatives have made regarding the Fast and Furious case- and I don't know if they are or not- then he should have resigned or been fired, IMO)- but this doesn't seem right to me. He should not be addressing an Al Sharpton group on this matter. He should not be telling them that they are "rightfully" concerned. That's seems like an improper interference.

Anyhow, that's how I see it at first blush. Anyone disagree with me here?

 

[timschochet]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57412258/new-info-expected-in-trayvon-martin-case/

CBS News) - The special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case says she'll release new information about her investigation within the next few days.

What information special prosecutor Angela Corey will reveal is uncertain.