Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[BigSteelThrill]

That is funny that was his only take from an article which basically says Zimmerman's version is backed up by the evidence and disproves the version of events spun up by the Martin side.

Its pretty much my stance since I first entered this thread. That article just confirms it via police report.

 

[Neofight]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

 

[Mark Davis]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

 

[Neofight]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

 

[Mark Davis]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

Honestly, I might. A lot depends on who started it and if someone else started it and my nose was broken and the fight was continuing, yeah, I might shoot them. But then again I don't know how hard Zimmerman was hit. Maybe it was a glancing blow and maybe it wasn't. It's also a function of how severe of a threat do you perceive. Neither of us know how hard the blow was that broke his nose nor the level of threat Zimmerman perceived.

 

[Neofight]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

Honestly, I might. A lot depends on who started it and if someone else started it and my nose was broken and the fight was continuing, yeah, I might shoot them. But then again I don't know how hard Zimmerman was hit. Maybe it was a glancing blow and maybe it wasn't. It's also a function of how severe of a threat do you perceive. Neither of us know how hard the blow was that broke his nose nor the level of threat Zimmerman perceived.

Fair enough. Conversations like these and in a few other threads have reemphasized for me just how badly we've screwed ourselves in this country with our gun laws.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting

By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) , SENI TIENABESO (@senijr_abc) and COLLEEN CURRY

May 17, 2012

"He witnesses a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches 'MMA (mixed martial arts) style,'

 

[TexanFan02]

When I was a cop, if I had been in Zimmerman's position I absolutely would have shot my attacker if I could have. No question. I would probably even do it now.

Could have this situation been avoided? Yeah. Is Zimmerman a doosh? Sounds like it. Did Martin deserve to die? No. Can they convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder? Not if the evidence backs up Zimmerman's side of the story. He will probably walk free (IMHO) since it doesn't appear anyone will be able to offer a different account. Zimmerman goes to jail only if the prosecution can convince the jury that Zimmerman is FOS.

Would you have let a 17 year old put you in that situation when you were a cop? Would you have been completely unable to defend yourself other than shooting him?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Yo...at least my homeboy Trey went down swingin ...word up

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights from age 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

 

[Neofight]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

 

[SacramentoBob]

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting

By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) , SENI TIENABESO (@senijr_abc) and COLLEEN CURRY

May 17, 2012

"He witnesses a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches 'MMA (mixed martial arts) style,'

I chuckled at the MMA style punches too. At least they weren't Rick Flair knife-edge chops.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

Obviously when you get in fights at school, or your random drunken brawl when bar hoping with friends you aren't wearing gloves, I spar with gloves, but that doesn't make much of a difference.. You seem to know very little about something you are so emphatic about..

 

[Neofight]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

Obviously when you get in fights at school, or your random drunken brawl when bar hoping with friends you aren't wearing gloves, I spar with gloves, but that doesn't make much of a difference.. You seem to know very little about something you are so emphatic about..

MMa style or do you just go all Krav Maga? Again, you don't know what you don't know. Do you know?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

Obviously when you get in fights at school, or your random drunken brawl when bar hoping with friends you aren't wearing gloves, I spar with gloves, but that doesn't make much of a difference.. You seem to know very little about something you are so emphatic about..

MMa style or do you just go all Krav Maga? Again, you don't know what you don't know. Do you know?

Krav Maga is not for sport.. I can't tell whether these are serious questions or not..

 

[parasaurolophus]

Pretty sure we can rule racism out now.

Martin was not from the neighborhood and he was in fact on drugs.

 

[tdoss]

This case is such a damn waste of time and effort...

 

[Neofight]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

Obviously when you get in fights at school, or your random drunken brawl when bar hoping with friends you aren't wearing gloves, I spar with gloves, but that doesn't make much of a difference.. You seem to know very little about something you are so emphatic about..

MMa style or do you just go all Krav Maga? Again, you don't know what you don't know. Do you know?

Krav Maga is not for sport.. I can't tell whether these are serious questions or not..

I apologize if you thought I was still taking you seriously at this point. I wasn't; you gave me no reason to.But, just one last time, I will address what you have typed out here. First, gloves do make a difference, of course they do. How many additional kPa, psi, g or other measurements worth is going to vary, as will the calculations based on whether the blow is lateral or frontal. Lateral blows are going to require significantly less force than a frontal blow. There is plenty of literature out there that will give you the amount of force required (most performed on cadavers) but generally 16-66 kPa will do the trick. If you bust out a converter to check the pounds on that you'll see that is indeed under 10. Again, angle of the blow and area impacted, etc. matter, but well, I'm sure you knew all this previously.

As for why you never had your beak broke in all your many battles I can only offer conjecture. Perhaps you are a real badass, perhaps your nasal structures are just stronger than mere mortals. Or perhaps you are so slow that your opponent just takes the straight jab and dispenses with the hook. Who knows? Keep fighting and enjoy a deviated septum in your old age.

As far as Krav Maga not being for sport; since when did drunken brawling become sport? I wanna party with you, cowboy!

ding-ding-ding

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.

But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

Obviously when you get in fights at school, or your random drunken brawl when bar hoping with friends you aren't wearing gloves, I spar with gloves, but that doesn't make much of a difference.. You seem to know very little about something you are so emphatic about..

MMa style or do you just go all Krav Maga? Again, you don't know what you don't know. Do you know?

Krav Maga is not for sport.. I can't tell whether these are serious questions or not..

I apologize if you thought I was still taking you seriously at this point. I wasn't; you gave me no reason to.But, just one last time, I will address what you have typed out here. First, gloves do make a difference, of course they do. How many additional kPa, psi, g or other measurements worth is going to vary, as will the calculations based on whether the blow is lateral or frontal. Lateral blows are going to require significantly less force than a frontal blow. There is plenty of literature out there that will give you the amount of force required (most performed on cadavers) but generally 16-66 kPa will do the trick. If you bust out a converter to check the pounds on that you'll see that is indeed under 10. Again, angle of the blow and area impacted, etc. matter, but well, I'm sure you knew all this previously.

As for why you never had your beak broke in all your many battles I can only offer conjecture. Perhaps you are a real badass, perhaps your nasal structures are just stronger than mere mortals. Or perhaps you are so slow that your opponent just takes the straight jab and dispenses with the hook. Who knows? Keep fighting and enjoy a deviated septum in your old age.

As far as Krav Maga not being for sport; since when did drunken brawling become sport? I wanna party with you, cowboy!

ding-ding-ding

Just stick to your BS, and I'll stay amused..

Remember where this started? Broken noses are so easy to come by right? After all people brake there noses sneezing all the time.. Broken noses are an epidemic where you come from I guess..

 

[Mark Davis]

This case is such a damn waste of time and effort...

I'm not sure the prosecution has shown enough to get past the immunity hearing at this juncture. They may have more in their bag not yet shown, but this could be over quickly as far as the actual legal proceeding.

 

[jon_mx]

This case is such a damn waste of time and effort...

I'm not sure the prosecution has shown enough to get past the immunity hearing at this juncture. They may have more in their bag not yet shown, but this could be over quickly as far as the actual legal proceeding.

I am pretty sure their bag is empty. What else is there....we pretty much heard the witnesses. we have an idea what the forensics show. we have the phone calls. we know the wounds on their bodies. we know the cops may not believe Zimmerman, but all the facts seem to back up his story. What on earth is possibly left. They caught Zimmerman in some minor apparent contradictions, but nothing that can't be explained. But just because the cops gut feeling is that the guy is lying, does not make a very compelling case.

 

[timschochet]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win". But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

 

[Neofight]

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.

Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

Obviously when you get in fights at school, or your random drunken brawl when bar hoping with friends you aren't wearing gloves, I spar with gloves, but that doesn't make much of a difference.. You seem to know very little about something you are so emphatic about..

MMa style or do you just go all Krav Maga? Again, you don't know what you don't know. Do you know?

Krav Maga is not for sport.. I can't tell whether these are serious questions or not..

I apologize if you thought I was still taking you seriously at this point. I wasn't; you gave me no reason to.But, just one last time, I will address what you have typed out here. First, gloves do make a difference, of course they do. How many additional kPa, psi, g or other measurements worth is going to vary, as will the calculations based on whether the blow is lateral or frontal. Lateral blows are going to require significantly less force than a frontal blow. There is plenty of literature out there that will give you the amount of force required (most performed on cadavers) but generally 16-66 kPa will do the trick. If you bust out a converter to check the pounds on that you'll see that is indeed under 10. Again, angle of the blow and area impacted, etc. matter, but well, I'm sure you knew all this previously.

As for why you never had your beak broke in all your many battles I can only offer conjecture. Perhaps you are a real badass, perhaps your nasal structures are just stronger than mere mortals. Or perhaps you are so slow that your opponent just takes the straight jab and dispenses with the hook. Who knows? Keep fighting and enjoy a deviated septum in your old age.

As far as Krav Maga not being for sport; since when did drunken brawling become sport? I wanna party with you, cowboy!

ding-ding-ding

Just stick to your BS, and I'll stay amused..

Remember where this started? Broken noses are so easy to come by right? After all people brake there noses sneezing all the time.. Broken noses are an epidemic where you come from I guess..

It's funny how this can be read a few ways, one of which helped it dawn on me that you probably did a lot of fighting as well as when you should have been paying attention in school. Am I right? Did you graduate from High School? Not to disparage, I'm just trying to gain some frame of reference for your unique perspective and understand why you often resort to such simple reasoning.Another question (in all seriousness): how many times would you say you've been hit in the head?

 

[GroveDiesel]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

The state's firearms expert that examined the evidence concluded that the muzzle of the gun was pressed against Martin's hoodie and shirt. How is that intermediate range?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

I get punched in the nose all the time, with really good shots.. Never in my life gotten my nose broken.. I had been in plenty of fights through years 13-24, and I spar on a regular basis now..

You are ridiculous my friend.. I would be embarrassed to be making these claims you're making..

I'm impressed. You fight bare knuckled?

Obviously when you get in fights at school, or your random drunken brawl when bar hoping with friends you aren't wearing gloves, I spar with gloves, but that doesn't make much of a difference.. You seem to know very little about something you are so emphatic about..

MMa style or do you just go all Krav Maga? Again, you don't know what you don't know. Do you know?

Krav Maga is not for sport.. I can't tell whether these are serious questions or not..

I apologize if you thought I was still taking you seriously at this point. I wasn't; you gave me no reason to.But, just one last time, I will address what you have typed out here. First, gloves do make a difference, of course they do. How many additional kPa, psi, g or other measurements worth is going to vary, as will the calculations based on whether the blow is lateral or frontal. Lateral blows are going to require significantly less force than a frontal blow. There is plenty of literature out there that will give you the amount of force required (most performed on cadavers) but generally 16-66 kPa will do the trick. If you bust out a converter to check the pounds on that you'll see that is indeed under 10. Again, angle of the blow and area impacted, etc. matter, but well, I'm sure you knew all this previously.

As for why you never had your beak broke in all your many battles I can only offer conjecture. Perhaps you are a real badass, perhaps your nasal structures are just stronger than mere mortals. Or perhaps you are so slow that your opponent just takes the straight jab and dispenses with the hook. Who knows? Keep fighting and enjoy a deviated septum in your old age.

As far as Krav Maga not being for sport; since when did drunken brawling become sport? I wanna party with you, cowboy!

ding-ding-ding

Just stick to your BS, and I'll stay amused..

Remember where this started? Broken noses are so easy to come by right? After all people brake there noses sneezing all the time.. Broken noses are an epidemic where you come from I guess..

It's funny how this can be read a few ways, one of which helped it dawn on me that you probably did a lot of fighting as well as when you should have been paying attention in school. Am I right? Did you graduate from High School? Not to disparage, I'm just trying to gain some frame of reference for your unique perspective and understand why you often resort to such simple reasoning.Another question (in all seriousness): how many times would you say you've been hit in the head?

That's pretty funny, but doesn't change the fact that you've been making #### up for the last 3 pages now, and have looked rather ridiculous pressing your 'Martin family agenda' in the forum.. You and the Martin family lawyer are running neck and neck for #1 biased ignorance right now. Only exception being that he is being paid (in some way) to sound like a fool.Gazoontite... Better get that nose checked out..

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Another question (in all seriousness): how many times would you say you've been hit in the head?

I'm pretty most of the posters in this thread have taken one or two too many blows to the head.

 

[pantherclub]

Carolina Hustler is relentless in here.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Carolina Hustler is relentless in here.

i get a kick out of the 6 or more posts in a row

 

[cubbyphan]

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/17/11748829-george-zimmerman-photos-released-from-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting?lite

I have no dog in this fight, I'm a wait and see kind of guy.But, if I'm honest, those injuries look like nothing to me. It's a little cut on the back of his head and a little cut on his nose. Yeah, it looks like he was in a scuffle, but it hardly looks like he was getting his tail kicked very badly. I read the list of his injuries before I saw the pictures and I expected much, much worse. I'd venture to say that half the FFA has received worse in their lives and likely not felt like their lives were threatened. I definitely have and I'm by no means a tough guy.

I wasn't there and I haven't heard enough to make any kind of real decision (not that my decision matters that much anyway). But, in my eyes, those pictures don't help Zimmerman's case at all. They do not look like injuries that would cause a reasonable person to fear for their life.

The story goes A: what is reasonable? and B: there is no way you can know what was going through Zimmerman's mind.Of course, it doesn't seem that Zimmerman acted reasonably at any point in this whole situation; but the law is the law. And I agree with you in that he looks like a dude that had his nose broken and a few scrapes on his head. Not too big a deal.

I'm not a big tough guy either but I was in a few fights growing up and never had my nose broken. I guess it's all about degrees, but I never had my nose broken in one of them. To me, getting your nose broken would be a fairly severe fight and if I had a weapon on me I'd likely go for it.

I've gone over this before, but it takes next to nothing (<10 lbs of pressure) to break a nose. If you've been in fights and did not have your nose broken it is because you didn't get hit in the nose or you did with only a glancing blow (or you were using pillows, though you could still break a nose in that instance). It's just cartilage; yeah it hurts but seriously, you'd shoot someone at point blank intermediate range because your eyes were watering and you were dazed for a few seconds?

WTF? Do you really think it's just cartilage? You really have no idea what your talking about.

 

[Charlie Frown]

When I was a cop, if I had been in Zimmerman's position I absolutely would have shot my attacker if I could have. No question. I would probably even do it now.

Could have this situation been avoided? Yeah. Is Zimmerman a doosh? Sounds like it. Did Martin deserve to die? No. Can they convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder? Not if the evidence backs up Zimmerman's side of the story. He will probably walk free (IMHO) since it doesn't appear anyone will be able to offer a different account. Zimmerman goes to jail only if the prosecution can convince the jury that Zimmerman is FOS.

Would you have let a 17 year old put you in that situation when you were a cop? Would you have been completely unable to defend yourself other than shooting him?

Hopefully not. You never know what can happen in a given situation. Look at all of the cops that have been killed with their own guns. All it takes a second to find yourself in a deadly confrontation. You train to lessen these chances and to protect yourself but sometimes bad things happen that advance beyond your control. Sometimes you have to assume the worst if you find yourself at a disadvantage in a violent situation you have to always assume the worst as a police officer. Your ultimate goal is to make sure you end the day safe and sound. Obviously you don't want to have to kill someone but I know if I am given the choice to kill or be killed, I know what I will do.

 

[jon_mx]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win". But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

That is pretty big of you Tim to say that. Will you admit maybe the charges were political?

 

[identikit]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win". But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

 

[timschochet]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win". But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

 

[timschochet]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win". But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

That is pretty big of you Tim to say that. Will you admit maybe the charges were political?

If it turns out there is no more evidence, then there is no other reasonable conclusion. I hope it's not true.

 

[Da Guru]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win". But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

Why would anybody be disappointed one way or the other? Let the facts of the case speak.

 

[identikit]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win". But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

Why would anybody be disappointed one way or the other? Let the facts of the case speak.

 

[timschochet]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win".

But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

Why would anybody be disappointed one way or the other? Let the facts of the case speak.

I explained myself above in the bolded section. But if you have even read a small portion of this thread, how many of those posting here on a regular basis do you believe are neutral observers, simply absorbing the facts and having no prior attitude affect their feelings regarding this case?

 

[Da Guru]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win".

But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

Why would anybody be disappointed one way or the other? Let the facts of the case speak.

I explained myself above in the bolded section. But if you have even read a small portion of this thread, how many of those posting here on a regular basis do you believe are neutral observers, simply absorbing the facts and having no prior attitude affect their feelings regarding this case?

It is not rooting for one side or the other,this is not a football game. It is about what happened that night. None of us know. That it is why it is so important to let the facts speak.

 

[identikit]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win".

But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

Why would anybody be disappointed one way or the other? Let the facts of the case speak.

I explained myself above in the bolded section. But if you have even read a small portion of this thread, how many of those posting here on a regular basis do you believe are neutral observers, simply absorbing the facts and having no prior attitude affect their feelings regarding this case?

It is not rooting for one side or the other,this is not a football game. It is about what happened that night. None of us know. That it is why it is so important to let the facts speak.

 

[Witz]

Video just released of Martin at 7-11 before shooting:

711 Video of Martin

 

[Clinton]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win".

But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

Why would anybody be disappointed one way or the other? Let the facts of the case speak.

I explained myself above in the bolded section. But if you have even read a small portion of this thread, how many of those posting here on a regular basis do you believe are neutral observers, simply absorbing the facts and having no prior attitude affect their feelings regarding this case?

You're either:

A) Projecting your own shortcomings onto others by assuming that everyone else entered into this case rooting for a side and are still allowing that fandom to shape their view of the case; or

B) You're now condemning in others the very thing that you admit you do yourself.

And as far as your statement that "facts are facts and cannot be ignored" ( )

You ignore facts that contradict your preconceived notions all the time. You not only ignore the facts, you go so far as to condemn those who present them.

<---- Me still laughing at how Tim could post those comments with a straight face. Too rich.

 

[identikit]

I can't wait for Tim's spin.

Here is my spin: unless there is more evidence that we're missing here, it appears that the Zimmerman should not have been charged with murder. The fact that he (Zimmerman) could have avoided the confrontation makes him likely a nutty fool; it does not make him guilty of murder. If that witness comes to the stand and testifies that Zimmerman was on the bottom and Martin was punching him, then this whole thing is over- this case should not go to trial. That is my judgement at this moment based on what I think I know. I don't like writing that, because I admit wanting to find Zimmerman guilty. I don't like the fact that some of the people defending Zimmerman in this thread don't believe that institutionalized racism exists. I don't like the fact that an acquittal for Zimmerman will be perceived as a defeat for the forces attempting to fight racial injustice. That bothers me. I am ideologically opposed to many of the ideas held by certain people on the "Zimmerman" side here, particularly Carolina Hustler, and I don't want that side to "win".

But facts are facts and cannot be ignored. There doesn't appear to be enough evidence here to justify any verdict other than complete acquittal. Of course I will change my mind again if something new arises.

Sounds like you're really disappointed that the facts didn't work the way you wanted them to for your own agenda.

Don't know if "agenda" is the right word, but I definitely went into this more sympathetic to one side than the other, and still am. And you're right I AM disappointed.

Why would anybody be disappointed one way or the other? Let the facts of the case speak.

I explained myself above in the bolded section. But if you have even read a small portion of this thread, how many of those posting here on a regular basis do you believe are neutral observers, simply absorbing the facts and having no prior attitude affect their feelings regarding this case?

You're either:

A) Projecting your own shortcomings onto others by assuming that everyone else enter into this case rooting for a side and still allowing that fandom to shape their view of the case; or

B) You're now condemning in others the very thing that you admit you do yourself?

And as far as your statement that "facts are facts and cannot be ignored" ( )

You ignore facts that contradict your preconceived notions all the time. You not only ignore the facts, you go so far as to condemn those who present them.

<---- Me still laughing at how Tim could post those comments with a straight face. Too rich.

Sums all things Tim pretty well.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

That whole article is hearsay.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I would just like to add I broke my nose smelling my morning coffee. Man those things are fragile.

 

[timschochet]

You're either:A) Projecting your own shortcomings onto others by assuming that everyone else entered into this case rooting for a side and are still allowing that fandom to shape their view of the case; orB) You're now condemning in others the very thing that you admit you do yourself. And as far as your statement that "facts are facts and cannot be ignored" ( ) You ignore facts that contradict your preconceived notions all the time. You not only ignore the facts, you go so far as to condemn those who present them. <---- Me still laughing at how Tim could post those comments with a straight face. Too rich.

I didn't condemn anyone. I'm guilty of ignoring facts all the time. I try not to be, but it happens. However, I don't think I've ever ignored any facts coming from YOU. Because you never present facts; you present anecdotes designed to promote your racist agenda. You really should look in a mirror before you laugh or criticize anyone else. I'd rather be proven wrong a million times than subscribe to despicable bigoted views the way you do.

 

[Clinton]

You're either:

A) Projecting your own shortcomings onto others by assuming that everyone else entered into this case rooting for a side and are still allowing that fandom to shape their view of the case; or

B) You're now condemning in others the very thing that you admit you do yourself.

And as far as your statement that "facts are facts and cannot be ignored" ( )

You ignore facts that contradict your preconceived notions all the time. You not only ignore the facts, you go so far as to condemn those who present them.

<---- Me still laughing at how Tim could post those comments with a straight face. Too rich.

I didn't condemn anyone. I'm guilty of ignoring facts all the time. I try not to be, but it happens. However, I don't think I've ever ignored any facts coming from YOU. Because you never present facts; you present anecdotes designed to promote your racist agenda. You really should look in a mirror before you laugh or criticize anyone else. I'd rather be proven wrong a million times than subscribe to despicable bigoted views the way you do.

I'd venture to guess that in the FFA, I post as many if not more links to statistics from reputable sources than any other member here.1 I also disproportionately share news, and you disproportionately just share your feelings with little backing.And I'd rather allow my positions to evolve with changes in statistics (i.e. Being open-minded) than to be a close-minded fool like you.

The disdain is mutual. :hi-five:

1: Footnote to show the high on emotion, low on logic Timmy that I do support my positions with more than anecdotes like some people who've been known to start threads, "So I was talking to two Tea Party friends the other day...."

I'm not a staunch opponent, but I can make an argument that demographics do not suggest the inevitability of same sex marriage.

First, the 2010 Census shows that the two fastest growing religions in America in the past decade are Mormonism and Islam, and both are growing rapidly. As you're probably aware, Mormons and Muslims tend to be some of the most ardent opponents of same sex marriage, and instead believe marriage should be between a man & woman. Or in some of their cases, a man & woman, woman, and woman. This demographic increase works against same sex marriage.

The 2010 Census also show the precipitous decline of America's white population. Despite the lies that Ted Kennedy and others used to pass Hart-Cellar, the most recent census shows that whites now represent less than half of all three-year-old children in America. As you're probably aware, it's whites that support gay marriage at a higher percentage than other racial/ethnic groups. While we've seen some increase in gay marriage support among blacks and Hispanics, their support still trails that of whites. Similarly, Asians do not support gay marriage as much as whites, and the 2010 Census showed Asians are the fastest growing race in America (that's good since they average the highest IQ). As the population numbers of those respective groups increase and whites decrease we could see support for gay marriage stagnate or even trend backward.

Those two demographic shifts, both racial and religious, may work against same sex marriage.

 

[timschochet]

You're either:

A) Projecting your own shortcomings onto others by assuming that everyone else entered into this case rooting for a side and are still allowing that fandom to shape their view of the case; or

B) You're now condemning in others the very thing that you admit you do yourself.

And as far as your statement that "facts are facts and cannot be ignored" ( )

You ignore facts that contradict your preconceived notions all the time. You not only ignore the facts, you go so far as to condemn those who present them.

<---- Me still laughing at how Tim could post those comments with a straight face. Too rich.

I didn't condemn anyone. I'm guilty of ignoring facts all the time. I try not to be, but it happens. However, I don't think I've ever ignored any facts coming from YOU. Because you never present facts; you present anecdotes designed to promote your racist agenda. You really should look in a mirror before you laugh or criticize anyone else. I'd rather be proven wrong a million times than subscribe to despicable bigoted views the way you do.

I'd venture to guess that in the FFA, I post as many if not more links to statistics from reputable sources than any other member here. I also disproportionately share news, and you disproportionately just share your feelings with little backing.And I'd rather allow my positions to evolve with changes in statistics (i.e. Being open-minded) than to be a close-minded fool like you.

The disdain is mutual. :hi-five:

I'm glad about that. Given your oft-expressed viewpoint that blacks and hispanics are racially inferior, I would consider something to be very wrong if I didn't earn your disdain.

 

[jon_mx]

It is silly of the police to speculate that this could have been prevented had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Why not speculate that this could have been prevented had Martin not doubled back to confront Zimmerman and start kicking his ###? There are lots of circumstances that could have prevented the situation from occurring. The hard facts seem to support Zimmerman's version.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

It is silly of the police to speculate that this could have been prevented had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Why not speculate that this could have been prevented had Martin not doubled back to confront Zimmerman and start kicking his ###? There are lots of circumstances that could have prevented the situation from occurring. The hard facts seem to support Zimmerman's version.

Good god....im speachless

 

[mad sweeney]

It is silly of the police to speculate that this could have been prevented had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Why not speculate that this could have been prevented had Martin not doubled back to confront Zimmerman and start kicking his ###? There are lots of circumstances that could have prevented the situation from occurring. The hard facts seem to support Zimmerman's version.

Yeah, only gun wielding cherubs of justice are allowed to fear for their life and do something about it. Kids being followed doggedly by a strange man are supposed to run home, leading this weirdo to where they live (no danger in that at all!), and aren't allowed to fear for their life and do something about it.