Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Carolina Hustler]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

Where does it say that Zimmerman got out of his car?

That is when folks are saying it is when he got out of the car.

What folks? Is there proof? Carolina Hustler is always going on and on about how we need proof for everything. Is there proof for this?

Tim makes a bad Christo. Yes, the sounds in the background do offer proof.

To you and me and any reasonable person, of course. But using Carolina Hustler's standards, they don't.

Your agenda is obvious when the fact that Trayvon was black entered your last post.. you slipped buddy..You're been very sloppy with your facts in the last 20 pages or so, and you seem to get frustrated with me more so now that I'm not an advocate for Israel in the other thread..

I've been very clear and reasonable, I just don't agree with you or your narrative, and you seem to be getting flustered.. Why don't you step away for a moment?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I think he's starting to crack.. Or maybe it started a long time ago..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I don't know why everyone doesn't have CH on ignore.

I don't know why everyone doesn't have you on ignore..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

For the life of me i cant find anything that says a crime was being committed by treyvon . I want to know what he was doing that warranted zimmerman having to follow treyvon? This is the jist of the entire case. If i randomly fire a bullet and it happens to strike some innocent bystander im still at fault even tho i never intended to actually shoot anyone.Zimmerman caused this event and should be held responsible.

 

[timschochet]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I think he's starting to crack.. Or maybe it started a long time ago..

Do you have proof of this?And by the way, you don't frustrate me at all, CH. I find you at times either irritating or absurdly amusing, probably the former more than the latter. But neither is synonymous with frustrating. Carry on.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Oh Tim, you seem so adversed to looking at this case from only a factual/analytical basis, instead you want to try it on emotion and supposition. I think everyone here feels it is tragic that a young man was shot but that alone doesn't make Zimmerman guilty.

 

[jon_mx]

Speaking of weekends, i still owe Tim a lunch from a bet a long time ago...I could probably pay up since I will be driving from LA to SD on Sunday afternoon.

 

[pantherclub]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I don't know why everyone doesn't have CH on ignore.

I don't know why everyone doesn't have you on ignore..

sick burn

 

[TexanFan02]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I don't know why everyone doesn't have CH on ignore.

I don't know why everyone doesn't have you on ignore..

sick burn

 

[timschochet]

Oh Tim, you seem so adversed to looking at this case from only a factual/analytical basis, instead you want to try it on emotion and supposition. I think everyone here feels it is tragic that a young man was shot but that alone doesn't make Zimmerman guilty.

No, you misunderstand me. I have pointed out several times that, unless there is more evidence, I personally would have to acquit Zimmerman. That doesn't mean the jury will agree with me; I think the result of the trial will largely be based on Z's credibility on the witness stand. But if it were me, there is too much reasonable doubt to convict.However, as I've also pointed out several times, we here are in a discussion board. We're not on a jury. That means we can use guesswork, reasonable inference, and assumptions based on logic and common sense. And that's why, when people try to do this, it gets really annoying for Carolina Hustler to keep interrupting with "You have no proof!". I don't need proof to make assumptions here. I'm not the prosecutor, and he's not the jury. And it's also incredibly hypocritical since he makes his own assertions about what happened, based almost solely on Zimmerman's story, without any proof. It is my reasonable assumption that Zimmerman is a dishonest man, a racist, and a wannabe policeman. It is my reasonable assumption that he got out of his car and followed Trayvon Martin despite being instructed not to by authorities. It is my reasonable assumption that Zimmerman confronted Martin, and a struggle ensued. I strongly doubt that at any time during this struggle Zimmerman ever feared for his life, and therefore it is my reasonable assumption that George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin. I can't prove any of it. But I think it's a reasonable assumption to make.

 

[timschochet]

Speaking of weekends, i still owe Tim a lunch from a bet a long time ago...I could probably pay up since I will be driving from LA to SD on Sunday afternoon.

Busy all weekend. But thanks, jon. While you don't owe me anything, it would be fun to get together with you (or any of you guys!) if chance actually permitted sometime...

 

[Christo]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

For the life of me i cant find anything that says a crime was being committed by treyvon . I want to know what he was doing that warranted zimmerman having to follow treyvon? This is the jist of the entire case. If i randomly fire a bullet and it happens to strike some innocent bystander im still at fault even tho i never intended to actually shoot anyone.Zimmerman caused this event and should be held responsible.

WTF?It's pretty much as close to being irrelevant as you can get.

 

[TexanFan02]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

For the life of me i cant find anything that says a crime was being committed by treyvon . I want to know what he was doing that warranted zimmerman having to follow treyvon? This is the jist of the entire case. If i randomly fire a bullet and it happens to strike some innocent bystander im still at fault even tho i never intended to actually shoot anyone.Zimmerman caused this event and should be held responsible.

WTF?It's pretty much as close to being irrelevant as you can get.

Not as close as Zimmerman deceiving the court right? That's why he isn't in jail right now.

 

[jon_mx]

Speaking of weekends, i still owe Tim a lunch from a bet a long time ago...I could probably pay up since I will be driving from LA to SD on Sunday afternoon.

Busy all weekend. But thanks, jon. While you don't owe me anything, it would be fun to get together with you (or any of you guys!) if chance actually permitted sometime...

I will be in SD until Thursday, then fly back. Been hanging out at Humphrey's Backstage on Shelter Island most nights this last week. Great happy hour with great live music.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Oh Tim, you seem so adversed to looking at this case from only a factual/analytical basis, instead you want to try it on emotion and supposition. I think everyone here feels it is tragic that a young man was shot but that alone doesn't make Zimmerman guilty.

No, you misunderstand me. I have pointed out several times that, unless there is more evidence, I personally would have to acquit Zimmerman. That doesn't mean the jury will agree with me; I think the result of the trial will largely be based on Z's credibility on the witness stand. But if it were me, there is too much reasonable doubt to convict.However, as I've also pointed out several times, we here are in a discussion board. We're not on a jury. That means we can use guesswork, reasonable inference, and assumptions based on logic and common sense. And that's why, when people try to do this, it gets really annoying for Carolina Hustler to keep interrupting with "You have no proof!". I don't need proof to make assumptions here. I'm not the prosecutor, and he's not the jury. And it's also incredibly hypocritical since he makes his own assertions about what happened, based almost solely on Zimmerman's story, without any proof. It is my reasonable assumption that Zimmerman is a dishonest man, a racist, and a wannabe policeman. It is my reasonable assumption that he got out of his car and followed Trayvon Martin despite being instructed not to by authorities. It is my reasonable assumption that Zimmerman confronted Martin, and a struggle ensued. I strongly doubt that at any time during this struggle Zimmerman ever feared for his life, and therefore it is my reasonable assumption that George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin. I can't prove any of it. But I think it's a reasonable assumption to make.

You claim my posts are "assertions" when my posts predominantly consist of "If A, B, and C happened, then it's likely that D and E are true" And on numerous occastions I've admitted that it may have been murder, and even many things that I find unlikely I've admitted could potentially be true..My "yadda-yadda can't be proven" is usually in response to "assertions" by the anti-zimmerman folks..I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

For the life of me i cant find anything that says a crime was being committed by treyvon . I want to know what he was doing that warranted zimmerman having to follow treyvon? This is the jist of the entire case. If i randomly fire a bullet and it happens to strike some innocent bystander im still at fault even tho i never intended to actually shoot anyone.Zimmerman caused this event and should be held responsible.

WTF?It's pretty much as close to being irrelevant as you can get.

Not as close as Zimmerman deceiving the court right? That's why he isn't in jail right now.

He's in jail right now because the basis for his bond was that he didn't have money which was not the truth.. The court made a decision on incomplete or incorrect information witch invalidates the courts decision.. The new bond hearing was granted and set for the 29th.. The bond will be reissued based on correct info.

The basis for the bond is financials and flight risk.. If the court makes a decision on that info, and that info is incorrect, the courts decision can be contested, and was..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I don't know why everyone doesn't have CH on ignore.

I don't know why everyone doesn't have you on ignore..

sick burn

 

[Chairshot]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

 

[Chairshot]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

I think it would be very reasonable to say that he didn't want to run because he would know that makes him look guilty of something. I'm sure 17 year old pride probably played into it, as well.It doesn't really make sense to me that Martin would be looking for a fight. I mean, maybe he was, who knows. But, in this instance, he was going to the store and coming home. If he wanted a fight, I'm sure he could have gotten one at school or something. Zimmerman, on the other hand, seemed like he was well prepared to fight and had put himself in a situation where he had to know a physical confrontation was always possible.

I don't know if that makes him guilty of murder, but we have 2 parties here. One is walking to the store and back and the other is carrying a gun, patrolling his neighborhood for suspicious characters so he can report them to the police. Of those 2 parties, I would say the later was significantly more mentally and physically prepared to get into a confrontation than the former. And I would think that a reasonable person would understand that when you call the cops dozens of times on suspicious people, when you repeatedly put yourself in those types of situations, eventually one of them is going to stand and fight back instead of running away like all the others.

 

[Christo]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

I think it would be very reasonable to say that he didn't want to run because he would know that makes him look guilty of something. I'm sure 17 year old pride probably played into it, as well.It doesn't really make sense to me that Martin would be looking for a fight. I mean, maybe he was, who knows. But, in this instance, he was going to the store and coming home. If he wanted a fight, I'm sure he could have gotten one at school or something. Zimmerman, on the other hand, seemed like he was well prepared to fight and had put himself in a situation where he had to know a physical confrontation was always possible.

I don't know if that makes him guilty of murder, but we have 2 parties here. One is walking to the store and back and the other is carrying a gun, patrolling his neighborhood for suspicious characters so he can report them to the police. Of those 2 parties, I would say the later was significantly more mentally and physically prepared to get into a confrontation than the former. And I would think that a reasonable person would understand that when you call the cops dozens of times on suspicious people, when you repeatedly put yourself in those types of situations, eventually one of them is going to stand and fight back instead of running away like all the others.

Zimmerman was not patrolling that night. He was also on his way to the store when he saw Martin.

 

[Chairshot]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

I think it would be very reasonable to say that he didn't want to run because he would know that makes him look guilty of something. I'm sure 17 year old pride probably played into it, as well.It doesn't really make sense to me that Martin would be looking for a fight. I mean, maybe he was, who knows. But, in this instance, he was going to the store and coming home. If he wanted a fight, I'm sure he could have gotten one at school or something. Zimmerman, on the other hand, seemed like he was well prepared to fight and had put himself in a situation where he had to know a physical confrontation was always possible.

I don't know if that makes him guilty of murder, but we have 2 parties here. One is walking to the store and back and the other is carrying a gun, patrolling his neighborhood for suspicious characters so he can report them to the police. Of those 2 parties, I would say the later was significantly more mentally and physically prepared to get into a confrontation than the former. And I would think that a reasonable person would understand that when you call the cops dozens of times on suspicious people, when you repeatedly put yourself in those types of situations, eventually one of them is going to stand and fight back instead of running away like all the others.

Zimmerman was not patrolling that night. He was also on his way to the store when he saw Martin.

Right, fair enough. I'm not sure that fact really changes the point I'm attempting to make, tho. It's obviously only my opinion, but I would say Zimmerman, as captain (and maybe only member?) of his neighborhood watch appeared to always be on guard and seemed to take his role in that watch seriously. I don't think anyone takes the role of captain of his neighborhood watch without understanding that it's very possible he will end up in a physical confrontation at some point.

 

[fatness]

I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact.

 

[pantherclub]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact

..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

 

[mad sweeney]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

Where does it say that Zimmerman got out of his car?

That is when folks are saying it is when he got out of the car.

What folks? Is there proof? Carolina Hustler is always going on and on about how we need proof for everything. Is there proof for this?

Tim makes a bad Christo. Yes, the sounds in the background do offer proof.

Ah yes, but the sounds reported from the g/f that woukd make Z the aggressir don't prove anything. Then again she doesn't have the credibility of a guy who's been in violent trouble in the past and deliberately participated in deceiving the court.

 

[mad sweeney]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I don't know why everyone doesn't have CH on ignore.

Flat out humor. It's the message board equivalent of doing beginner level crosswords.

 

[mad sweeney]

Yes it is, actually. And personally, I believe he got out of his car at that time.But it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a big fat liar.And it's also pretty obvious that Zimmerman is a wanna be cop who pursued a black kid who was doing nothing, and that Zimmerman had a gun, and that Zimmerman was concerned about these ####ers always getting away. And from these obvious things, one could make the reasonable inference that George Zimmerman is ultimately responsible for what happened here.However, Carolina Hustler points out, correctly, that we can't PROVE any of this, and so he chooses to ignore all reason and reasonable inference and form his own conclusions which- ta da!- just happen to be that George Zimmerman's story must be the correct one, no matter how absurd it sounds. So using that logic, I suggest that we can question every aspect of this case, including when Zimmerman left the car. After all, while it's "pretty obvious", we have no PROOF.

Maybe it's time to start the weekend, no?

I don't know why everyone doesn't have CH on ignore.

I don't know why everyone doesn't have you on ignore..

Ooooh sick burn.

 

[mad sweeney]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

For the life of me i cant find anything that says a crime was being committed by treyvon . I want to know what he was doing that warranted zimmerman having to follow treyvon? This is the jist of the entire case. If i randomly fire a bullet and it happens to strike some innocent bystander im still at fault even tho i never intended to actually shoot anyone.Zimmerman caused this event and should be held responsible.

Perhaps yourself the part that Martin SMOKED POT!!!

 

[mad sweeney]

Speaking of weekends, i still owe Tim a lunch from a bet a long time ago...I could probably pay up since I will be driving from LA to SD on Sunday afternoon.

Shoulda told me you were here, we coulda met up!

 

[timschochet]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

For the life of me i cant find anything that says a crime was being committed by treyvon . I want to know what he was doing that warranted zimmerman having to follow treyvon? This is the jist of the entire case. If i randomly fire a bullet and it happens to strike some innocent bystander im still at fault even tho i never intended to actually shoot anyone.Zimmerman caused this event and should be held responsible.

Perhaps yourself the part that Martin SMOKED POT!!!

He also may have stood in the background during some fights. I think he was suspended from school a few times. Typical traits of a psychopathic killer, if you ask me.

 

[mad sweeney]

Speaking of weekends, i still owe Tim a lunch from a bet a long time ago...I could probably pay up since I will be driving from LA to SD on Sunday afternoon.

Busy all weekend. But thanks, jon. While you don't owe me anything, it would be fun to get together with you (or any of you guys!) if chance actually permitted sometime...

I will be in SD until Thursday, then fly back. Been hanging out at Humphrey's Backstage on Shelter Island most nights this last week. Great happy hour with great live music.

Has their Summer Concert Series started?

 

[mad sweeney]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

 

[mad sweeney]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

I think it would be very reasonable to say that he didn't want to run because he would know that makes him look guilty of something. I'm sure 17 year old pride probably played into it, as well.It doesn't really make sense to me that Martin would be looking for a fight. I mean, maybe he was, who knows. But, in this instance, he was going to the store and coming home. If he wanted a fight, I'm sure he could have gotten one at school or something. Zimmerman, on the other hand, seemed like he was well prepared to fight and had put himself in a situation where he had to know a physical confrontation was always possible.

I don't know if that makes him guilty of murder, but we have 2 parties here. One is walking to the store and back and the other is carrying a gun, patrolling his neighborhood for suspicious characters so he can report them to the police. Of those 2 parties, I would say the later was significantly more mentally and physically prepared to get into a confrontation than the former. And I would think that a reasonable person would understand that when you call the cops dozens of times on suspicious people, when you repeatedly put yourself in those types of situations, eventually one of them is going to stand and fight back instead of running away like all the others.

Zimmerman was not patrolling that night. He was also on his way to the store when he saw Martin.

He certainly acted as he would if he was on patrol. That's another one of your details you like to focus on to distract from relevant things you like to call irrelevant. Of everything mentioned here, your semantic correction is beyond irrelevant.

 

[TexanFan02]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

 

[timschochet]

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

What proof do we have that this witness exists?What proof do we have that the boy she heard wasn't Zimmerman?What proof do we have that the authoritative voice wasn't Trayvon?What proof do we have that this witness is even telling the truth?What proof do we have that YOU'RE telling the truth about this witness?What proof do we have that YOU exist?Since the answer to all of these questions is "none", (at least not to my satisfaction, anyhow) I'm going to dismiss all of it and continue to believe that Zimmerman's story about what happened must be 100% factual.

 

[Christo]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

Where does it say that Zimmerman got out of his car?

That is when folks are saying it is when he got out of the car.

What folks? Is there proof? Carolina Hustler is always going on and on about how we need proof for everything. Is there proof for this?

Tim makes a bad Christo. Yes, the sounds in the background do offer proof.

Ah yes, but the sounds reported from the g/f that woukd make Z the aggressir don't prove anything. Then again she doesn't have the credibility of a guy who's been in violent trouble in the past and deliberately participated in deceiving the court.

What sounds did she report that would make Zimmerman the aggressor?

 

[Christo]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

I think it would be very reasonable to say that he didn't want to run because he would know that makes him look guilty of something. I'm sure 17 year old pride probably played into it, as well.It doesn't really make sense to me that Martin would be looking for a fight. I mean, maybe he was, who knows. But, in this instance, he was going to the store and coming home. If he wanted a fight, I'm sure he could have gotten one at school or something. Zimmerman, on the other hand, seemed like he was well prepared to fight and had put himself in a situation where he had to know a physical confrontation was always possible.

I don't know if that makes him guilty of murder, but we have 2 parties here. One is walking to the store and back and the other is carrying a gun, patrolling his neighborhood for suspicious characters so he can report them to the police. Of those 2 parties, I would say the later was significantly more mentally and physically prepared to get into a confrontation than the former. And I would think that a reasonable person would understand that when you call the cops dozens of times on suspicious people, when you repeatedly put yourself in those types of situations, eventually one of them is going to stand and fight back instead of running away like all the others.

Zimmerman was not patrolling that night. He was also on his way to the store when he saw Martin.

He certainly acted as he would if he was on patrol. That's another one of your details you like to focus on to distract from relevant things you like to call irrelevant. Of everything mentioned here, your semantic correction is beyond irrelevant.

Facts, not semantics.

 

[TexanFan02]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged with shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Maybe "very" was over the top.. I still would put odds on Trayvon initiating contact..Why did he stick around? Why did he say "I'm not going to run"..?

I think it would be very reasonable to say that he didn't want to run because he would know that makes him look guilty of something. I'm sure 17 year old pride probably played into it, as well.It doesn't really make sense to me that Martin would be looking for a fight. I mean, maybe he was, who knows. But, in this instance, he was going to the store and coming home. If he wanted a fight, I'm sure he could have gotten one at school or something. Zimmerman, on the other hand, seemed like he was well prepared to fight and had put himself in a situation where he had to know a physical confrontation was always possible.

I don't know if that makes him guilty of murder, but we have 2 parties here. One is walking to the store and back and the other is carrying a gun, patrolling his neighborhood for suspicious characters so he can report them to the police. Of those 2 parties, I would say the later was significantly more mentally and physically prepared to get into a confrontation than the former. And I would think that a reasonable person would understand that when you call the cops dozens of times on suspicious people, when you repeatedly put yourself in those types of situations, eventually one of them is going to stand and fight back instead of running away like all the others.

Zimmerman was not patrolling that night. He was also on his way to the store when he saw Martin.

He certainly acted as he would if he was on patrol. That's another one of your details you like to focus on to distract from relevant things you like to call irrelevant. Of everything mentioned here, your semantic correction is beyond irrelevant.

Facts, not semantics.

How do you know that's a fact? Because Zimmerman said so?

 

[Christo]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

Boy He was 17.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Please, tell me why you would get out of the car and follow someone to help the dispatcher keep tabs on the kid even though the dispatcher said it wasn't needed?

He got out of the car after the dispatcher said "what is he doing now" and before the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

How do you know this?

7:09:34: Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. ...

7:09:39: Zimmerman: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

7:09:59: Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?

7:10:04: Zimmerman: He looks black.

7:10:06: Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

7:10:07: Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring...

7:10:16: Dispatcher: Okay, he's just walking around the area...

7:10:19: Zimmerman: ...looking at all the houses.

7:10:21: Dispatcher: Okay...

7:10:21: Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.

7:10:22: Dispatcher: Okay. You said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?

7:10:27: Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse... [Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:10:28: Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse. Do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?

7:10:32: Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

7:10:35: Dispatcher: Okay.

7:10:37: Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

7:10:44: Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?

7:10:46: Zimmerman: He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

7:10:48: Dispatcher: Late teens. Okay.

7:10:51: Zimmerman: Something's wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

7:10:54: Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, okay?

7:11:02: Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

7:11:04: Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got someone on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

7:11:07: Zimmerman: Okay. These #######s, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]

7:11:30: Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?

7:11:33: Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. ####, he's running.

7:11:42: Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

Ambient sounds are heard which may be Zimmerman unbuckling his seat belt and his vehicle's "open door" chime sounding. The change in his voice and the sound of wind against his cell phone mic indicate that he has left his vehicle and is now either walking fast or running. The dispatcher seems to pick up on these changes and sounds concerned when he later asks Zimmerman if he is following Martin.

7:11:48: Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

7:11:52: Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

7:11:54: Zimmerman: The back entrance...####### [disputed/unintelligible]

This section of the recording has been the subject of much speculation. Some suggest that Zimmerman has just made a racial slur, but the audio is not clear. An FBI report released with the evidence states the word is not intelligible.

7:11:56: Dispatcher: Are you following him?

7:11:59: Zimmerman: Yeah.

7:12:00: Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

7:12:02: Zimmerman: Okay.

For the life of me i cant find anything that says a crime was being committed by treyvon . I want to know what he was doing that warranted zimmerman having to follow treyvon? This is the jist of the entire case. If i randomly fire a bullet and it happens to strike some innocent bystander im still at fault even tho i never intended to actually shoot anyone.Zimmerman caused this event and should be held responsible.

Perhaps yourself the part that Martin SMOKED POT!!!

He also may have stood in the background during some fights. I think he was suspended from school a few times. Typical traits of a psychopathic killer, if you ask me.

[sweeney] All kids get 3 suspensions per year.. That's right of passage.. [/sweeney]

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random eye witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted. and heard the phone go dead, and assumed that meant trayvon was pushed

fixed

 

[TexanFan02]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

Boy He was 17.

That's how both the Police and witness referred to Martin, but don't let facts get in the way of your rabid Zimmerman defense.

Question: Did you hear someone call for help?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Who do you think asked for help?

Answer: The boy.

Murder 2. Throw away the key. Christo exposed as a BGP/LHUCKS alias.

 

[Charlie Frown]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

I've never said that. But if Zimmerman got himself into a position to get his ### beat by being overzealous (a very, very proveable position) and overconfident (because he was packing), then it's entirely his fault that someone is dead. You don't get to scare someone into protecting themself and then kill them because they're winning.

Yes you do.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

How do we know we don't know what we don't know?

 

[Witz]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

Boy He was 17.

That's how both the Police and witness referred to Martin, but don't let facts get in the way of your rabid Zimmerman defense.

Question: Did you hear someone call for help?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Who do you think asked for help?

Answer: The boy.

Murder 2. Throw away the key. Christo exposed as a BGP/LHUCKS alias.

Which witness was this (what number witness)?

 

[TexanFan02]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

Boy He was 17.

That's how both the Police and witness referred to Martin, but don't let facts get in the way of your rabid Zimmerman defense.

Question: Did you hear someone call for help?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Who do you think asked for help?

Answer: The boy.

Murder 2. Throw away the key. Christo exposed as a BGP/LHUCKS alias.

Which witness was this (what number witness)?

Dunno, pulled it off the evidence dump. 13 page handwritten statement. If they go in order, it's the 2nd written statement.

 

[TexanFan02]

I think using the terms "approached", "concerned neighbor" and "adult" is why we're at loggerheads here.

Angry idiot in pursuit with a gun and his mind made up is more in line with the facts, as we know them. Zimmerman has done nothing to show he is an adult in the aftermath.

Potayto, patahto.

During the confrontation, the bolded is the only thing we're certain of, the rest is speculation..

Zimmerman was an idiot before the killing and remains one, he was angry on the 911 call and wasn't exactly chipper following The killing (unless you believe getting beat up by a kid he outweighed by 40lbs would put a smile on his face), and he did in fact pursue Martin. None of that is speculation. Saying he was getting roughed up enough to legitimately fear for his life would be speculation on your part. But I'll call it BS. He just doesn't seem credible, nor reasonable.

I can't believe people still doubt the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating his ###. Hasn't this been confirmed by multiple eyewitness accounts?Somebody punches you in the nose and knocks you down is one thing but if they jump on top of you and continue pounding it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be in fear for his life IMO.

And if someone is following you to the point where you fear for your life and try to subdue them, it's perfectly reasonable to make sure the guy is knocked out so he can't reach for a weapon, like a gun.

How'd that reasoning work out in this case.. Doesn't seem so smart and reasonable to me..And there still is no proof that Zimmerman was following Trayvon to the point Trayvon was in fear for his life.

If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and tried to detain him, and Trayvon then punched him, knocked him down, and then was holding him down thinking someone was coming to help, or to call the police for him.. That would be a legitimate reason for Trayvon to be on top.. Problem is, no one is here to testify on that scenario.. The Prosecution has criteria they have to meet. I think they're going to have a hard time meeting it..

Well, there's no proof Z was in fear for his life either other than the word of a man with several past incidents of violence and who has shown his willingness to decieve the authorities for his own protection. And when you get down to fear for your life, smart and reasonable go out the window. That's why it's called fear.As for holding him down, like I said, if TM feared for his life from this stalker, I think it's eminently reasonable to keep pounding til the follower is unconscious.

So it's reasonable for someone to beat a "stalker" unconscious but its not reasonable for someone to fear their life after being beaten up and having their head pounded on the ground?

I've never said that. But if Zimmerman got himself into a position to get his ### beat by being overzealous (a very, very proveable position) and overconfident (because he was packing), then it's entirely his fault that someone is dead. You don't get to scare someone into protecting themself and then kill them because they're winning.

Yes you do.

In Florida you do.

 

[Christo]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

Boy He was 17.

That's how both the Police and witness referred to Martin, but don't let facts get in the way of your rabid Zimmerman defense.

Question: Did you hear someone call for help?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Who do you think asked for help?

Answer: The boy.

Murder 2. Throw away the key. Christo exposed as a BGP/LHUCKS alias.

 

[TexanFan02]

I think it's very unlikely that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation. I believe Trayvon is more likely the initiator of the physical contact.. I find it a reasonable possibility that Zimmerman may have never thrown a punch and was in a struggle with someone he didn't know, who attacked him (for maybe a legitimate reason in Trayvons mind) and he was afraid..

Why do you think this? We know he followed Martin for at least a short time, which would seem to indicate that he at least was willing to be in a physical confrontation, even if he wasn't specifically looking for one. We know he carried a gun, which would seem to be prep for a potential physical confrontation. While the charges were dropped, he was arrested and charged for shoving a cop and also had a restraining order filed against him by his girlfriend, who alleged domestic violence. All of this paints a picture of someone who appears to be willing to get physical if he wants to.I don't know how it went down any more than you do, but given the above information, I don't think it's "very unlikely" that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation. I think it's just as possible as anything else.

Plus the girlfriends statements. But only random witness statements count, not people talking to the deceased as they were first assaulted.

Well, there was the witness who said she heard 2 people arguing, one with a loud authoritative voice, one a boy. Then she heard cries from help from the boy. Murder 2.

Boy He was 17.

That's how both the Police and witness referred to Martin, but don't let facts get in the way of your rabid Zimmerman defense.

Question: Did you hear someone call for help?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Who do you think asked for help?

Answer: The boy.

Murder 2. Throw away the key. Christo exposed as a BGP/LHUCKS alias.

Yes, you have become a joke. I credit this thread for exposing you.

 

[Witz]

Regarding Mad Sweeney's comments on the girlfriends statements about when she was on the call with Martin (since I didn't recall there being anything that indicated Zimmerman initiated the altercation - if anything, it showed Martin speaking first to Zimmerman). This was discussed at length earlier in the thread. It now looks like her recollection has been expanded - initially back in March, she had stated the following:

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.

March 20, 2012 Online StoryABC News Story

As of a couple of weeks ago (on 05/18/2012 to be specific with the first issuance of this information) , the following has been added to her accounting of the phone conversation:

She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing, and then heard Martin say what sounded like, "get off, get off," and the call ended.

May 18, 2012 Online StoryThis is pretty substantial, no? If Martin did make those comments, it would look like Zimmerman engaged Martin. My only concern is why is this only coming out now (I don't recall these specific comments being discussed earlier but maybe I missed it)? Why didn't the girlfriend share that piece of specific information when she was telling the world her story back in March? She shared this information with the state prosector on 04/02/2012 (according to the story) - weeks after she shared her final conversation with Martin to the press/world.

The conspiracy theorists would say that the last part was added to bolster the case against Zimmerman (since at that time Zimmerman had not yet been arrested). Not really sure what to make of this.