Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[The Commish]

Hope he's learned something from this whole thing. Can't say I am surprised by the verdicts in the least. Major thanks to Ramasay, YankeeFan and the other LawyerGuys helping us wade through the and get good information. I learned a great deal, especially about Florida law. Texas has always seemed like the closest state we have to "the wild west" but Florida seems to be right up there with them. Wondering what, if anything, the legislature down there had learned from this.

You do realize this wasn't a stand your ground case, and the portion of the self defense laws in Florida that applied to this case are equal to that of most states in the country.. Including the one you live in..

In my state it takes more than just the simple claim of it being "self defense". That's essentially the "burden" the defense has in FL.

You're going to have to provide a link before I believe you.

To be specific before the usual suspects start to swarm....in SC, the law is specific to a dwelling, residence, vehicle. So if a common walking area is "dwelling" then I'd say I am wrong based on this:

PROTECTION OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY ACT

The stated intent of the legislation is to codify the common law castle doctrine, which recognizes that a person’s home is his castle, and to extend the doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and the person’s place of business. This bill authorizes the lawful use of deadly force under certain circumstances against an intruder or attacker in a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle. The bill provides that there is no duty to retreat if (1) the person is in a place where he has a right to be, including the person’s place of business, (2) the person is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and (3) the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily injury, or the commission of a violent crime. A person who lawfully uses deadly force is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action, unless the person against whom deadly force was used is a law enforcement officer acting in the performance of his official duties and he identifies himself in accordance with applicable law or the person using deadly force knows or reasonably should have known the person is a law enforcement officer.

H.4301 (R412) was signed by the Governor on June 9, 2006.

 

[cstu]

The lesson we should take from all this is that if you think someone is following you, don't break his nose and throw him to the ground and bang his head on the concrete. Call the police and tell them you think someone is following you. If TM would have done that he'd still be alive today.

Let the law enforcement officers do their jobs.

TM: "Hey 911, yeah, I think someone is following me"

911 Operator: "He's this idiot I have on the other line, hang on I'll have a squad there in 2 minutes. I'll tell him a squad car is coming and he'll be satiated by that. We'll let the cops figure out what's what"

 

[jon_mx]

Hope he's learned something from this whole thing. Can't say I am surprised by the verdicts in the least. Major thanks to Ramasay, YankeeFan and the other LawyerGuys helping us wade through the and get good information. I learned a great deal, especially about Florida law. Texas has always seemed like the closest state we have to "the wild west" but Florida seems to be right up there with them. Wondering what, if anything, the legislature down there had learned from this.

I find this rather humorous coming from someone who crapped all over this thread numerous times with outlandish spin after claiming repeatedly he had no dogs in this race.

 

[Christo]

Hope he's learned something from this whole thing. Can't say I am surprised by the verdicts in the least. Major thanks to Ramasay, YankeeFan and the other LawyerGuys helping us wade through the and get good information. I learned a great deal, especially about Florida law. Texas has always seemed like the closest state we have to "the wild west" but Florida seems to be right up there with them. Wondering what, if anything, the legislature down there had learned from this.

You do realize this wasn't a stand your ground case, and the portion of the self defense laws in Florida that applied to this case are equal to that of most states in the country.. Including the one you live in..

In my state it takes more than just the simple claim of it being "self defense". That's essentially the "burden" the defense has in FL.

You're going to have to provide a link before I believe you.

To be specific before the usual suspects start to swarm....in SC, the law is specific to a dwelling, residence, vehicle. So if a common walking area is "dwelling" then I'd say I am wrong based on this:

PROTECTION OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY ACT

The stated intent of the legislation is to codify the common law castle doctrine, which recognizes that a person’s home is his castle, and to extend the doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and the person’s place of business. This bill authorizes the lawful use of deadly force under certain circumstances against an intruder or attacker in a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle. The bill provides that there is no duty to retreat if (1) the person is in a place where he has a right to be, including the person’s place of business, (2) the person is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and (3) the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily injury, or the commission of a violent crime. A person who lawfully uses deadly force is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action, unless the person against whom deadly force was used is a law enforcement officer acting in the performance of his official duties and he identifies himself in accordance with applicable law or the person using deadly force knows or reasonably should have known the person is a law enforcement officer.

H.4301 (R412) was signed by the Governor on June 9, 2006.

That says nothing about the burden of proof.

 

[renesauz]

There is no doubt that there are problems in America in regards to why African-Americans are prosecuted disproportionally, but pursuing justice or change for that in this case is wrong. Equality isn't gained by destroying other people lives.

I read recently that when comparing similar cases with all things being equal as far as background, history, age, sex, etc...that blacks are given higher sentences about 11% more than whites.

However, the article went on to talk about comparing similar cases with all things being equal...including race...that men are given higher sentences 65% more than women. And females that are arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.

I think if anything...we should focus where the scales are tipped the most and work our way down...

I had to attend court on an *ahem* traffic violation and many people that approached the judge before me were black. There seemed to be an attitude of disrespect and arrogance towards the judge displayed by many of them (small sample size I know) and the judge gave them harsher sentences than the people that took the time to dress nice and show proper respect for the court.

I don't think it's as simple as black and white. If some of those people had shown any respect they would have received a lighter sentence. They seemed to revel in rebelling and being disrespectful and the judge rewarded them.

THIS.

There are serious problems in the lower income black community that can't be explained away by racism and discrimination. I live in a lower middle class neighborhood close to the hood, and I see it every day.

Here I've at times been thought racist, even though some of my best friends are AA. It isn't the race, it's the culture.

 

[renesauz]

MSNBC reporting that black people around the country are outraged- they feel as if a black life is not worth as much as a white life. This is, of course, based on tweets and it's all anecdotal, but I believe it. I think this is really how most black Americans feel tonight.

That's always the crux of these things; the feeling that America doesn't value the life if young black men.

Dude, young black men don't value the lives of young black men. They need to do that before everyone else will.

Sick, disgusting comment.

You're a POS.

Why. I think it's an accurate statement. There should be more focus on black on black crime but we as a country are too scared to address it.

Seriously...something like 50 black males were shot over Father's day weekend in Chicago. Something like 9 died.

The year before it was even more...over the same timeframe.

But no one is really up in arms over it...I really don't get it. We focused so much time, effort and money on this useless dog of a case...but put no effort into Chicago? Or any of the other inner city nightmares like Beirut...I mean, Detroit...

We really have taken our eyes off the prize and just keep getting conned by the race-baiting charlatans.

Great post TD

They're right Gachi. Ignoring the black on black violence is making the issues worse, not better.

 

[Dr Oadi]

MSNBC reporting that black people around the country are outraged- they feel as if a black life is not worth as much as a white life. This is, of course, based on tweets and it's all anecdotal, but I believe it. I think this is really how most black Americans feel tonight.

That's always the crux of these things; the feeling that America doesn't value the life if young black men.

Dude, young black men don't value the lives of young black men. They need to do that before everyone else will.

Sick, disgusting comment.

You're a POS.

Why. I think it's an accurate statement. There should be more focus on black on black crime but we as a country are too scared to address it.

Seriously...something like 50 black males were shot over Father's day weekend in Chicago. Something like 9 died.The year before it was even more...over the same timeframe.

But no one is really up in arms over it...I really don't get it. We focused so much time, effort and money on this useless dog of a case...but put no effort into Chicago? Or any of the other inner city nightmares like Beirut...I mean, Detroit...

We really have taken our eyes off the prize and just keep getting conned by the race-baiting charlatans.

Great post TD

They're right Gachi. Ignoring the black on black violence is making the issues worse, not better.

@marclamonthill: There is nothing more arrogant, paternalistic, & wrongheaded than White people telling us we can't grieve for Trayvon bc of Chicago deaths.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Investor's Business Daily

Zimmerman Judge Ran Kangaroo Court

Injustice: There are biased judges, and then there's Debra Nelson, who's presided over what can only be called a kangaroo court in the George Zimmerman trial.

The bias of Nelson, Florida Circuit Court judge and a lifelong Democrat, in favor of the prosecution and its efforts to railroad Zimmerman as a racist murderer has been palpable throughout the case. Her actions, which have actively aided the state, could poison jurors and factor into future litigation.

Her shameful rulings and behavior, therefore, are worth cataloging, and include:

• Suppressing exculpatory evidence recovered from the (double-password-protected) cell phone of Trayvon Martin that reveal deleted texts of the 17-year-old bragging about street-fighting with friends and relatives and photos showing him brandishing guns, gangsta-style. This evidence supports Zimmerman's claim he feared Martin and shot in self-defense.

• Disallowing Martin's criminal background, including arrests by Miami-Dade school district police for drugs, theft, graffiti and other delinquent behavior. (Martin, in fact, had been suspended from school the week he jumped Zimmerman inside his gated townhouse complex, after police found stolen jewelry and burglary tools inside his backpack.)

• Excluding any testimony from audio experts who could definitively ID Zimmerman's voice screaming for help on 911 calls as Martin bashed his head against a concrete sidewalk.

• Allowing, conversely, the last-minute request of plainly desperate prosecutors to have jurors consider an alternative lesser charge of manslaughter to try to secure some kind of conviction, any kind of punishment, in the complete absence of a sound murder case.

• Never sanctioning the prosecution despite Zimmerman's lawyers justifiably filing no fewer than six formal complaints against the state for withholding exculpatory and other evidence from them in violation of discovery rules.

• Yet repeatedly overruling — at times even reprimanding — Zimmerman's lawyers when they objected to the underhanded tactics of the prosecution.

• And even, in one of the most bizarre interventions by a judge many court watchers have ever observed in a criminal case, directly grilling defendant Zimmerman not once, but three times about his intentions to personally testify — while scolding his lawyers not to counsel him in what seemed to many to be an attempt by the court to bully him into taking the stand.

Seeing prosecutors losing the case, Nelson jumped into the ring to give them a direct shot at Zimmerman in a last-ditch attempt to make him look guilty in front of the jury.

Even former prosecutors slammed Nelson for her obnoxious impartiality. Andrew C. McCarthy, a former U.S. attorney who has prosecuted major criminal cases, called the trumped-up Zimmerman case a "travesty" of justice from start to finish. Any other judge would have thrown the case out as the garbage it was.

"In presiding over the trial of George Zimmerman, Judge Debra Nelson has made some awful rulings — none worse than failing to direct a verdict of acquittal on the preposterous second-degree 'depraved mind' murder charge," McCarthy wrote.

"The state's evidence that Zimmerman had the necessary criminal intent is non-existent, much less sufficient to meet the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' standard," he explained. "Compelling evidence, moreover, establishes that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, a claim the state has not come close to refuting."

Yet Nelson prevented jurors from hearing all that evidence. Over and over again, she ruled as inadmissible key facts and data that could have reinforced Zimmerman's plea of self-defense.

Nelson has higher ambitions, having twice applied for open seats on Florida's supreme court. Let's hope for the sake of impartial justice the governor continues to pass her over. She really has no business sitting on any bench.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily

Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

 

[avoiding injuries]

There is no doubt that there are problems in America in regards to why African-Americans are prosecuted disproportionally, but pursuing justice or change for that in this case is wrong. Equality isn't gained by destroying other people lives.

I read recently that when comparing similar cases with all things being equal as far as background, history, age, sex, etc...that blacks are given higher sentences about 11% more than whites.

However, the article went on to talk about comparing similar cases with all things being equal...including race...that men are given higher sentences 65% more than women. And females that are arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.

I think if anything...we should focus where the scales are tipped the most and work our way down...

I had to attend court on an *ahem* traffic violation and many people that approached the judge before me were black. There seemed to be an attitude of disrespect and arrogance towards the judge displayed by many of them (small sample size I know) and the judge gave them harsher sentences than the people that took the time to dress nice and show proper respect for the court.

I don't think it's as simple as black and white. If some of those people had shown any respect they would have received a lighter sentence. They seemed to revel in rebelling and being disrespectful and the judge rewarded them.

THIS.

There are serious problems in the lower income black community that can't be explained away by racism and discrimination. I live in a lower middle class neighborhood close to the hood, and I see it every day.

Here I've at times been thought racist, even though some of my best friends are AA. It isn't the race, it's the culture.

What Joe McGee saw, I see the same thing at my county courthouse as well. They act the same way described, dress poorly and don't seem to care what the outcome is. The only difference is that most of them are white. I don't think it's the race as much as the class.

 

[jon_mx]

Investor's Business Daily

Zimmerman Judge Ran Kangaroo Court

Injustice: There are biased judges, and then there's Debra Nelson, who's presided over what can only be called a kangaroo court in the George Zimmerman trial.

The bias of Nelson, Florida Circuit Court judge and a lifelong Democrat, in favor of the prosecution and its efforts to railroad Zimmerman as a racist murderer has been palpable throughout the case. Her actions, which have actively aided the state, could poison jurors and factor into future litigation.

Her shameful rulings and behavior, therefore, are worth cataloging, and include:

• Suppressing exculpatory evidence recovered from the (double-password-protected) cell phone of Trayvon Martin that reveal deleted texts of the 17-year-old bragging about street-fighting with friends and relatives and photos showing him brandishing guns, gangsta-style. This evidence supports Zimmerman's claim he feared Martin and shot in self-defense.

• Disallowing Martin's criminal background, including arrests by Miami-Dade school district police for drugs, theft, graffiti and other delinquent behavior. (Martin, in fact, had been suspended from school the week he jumped Zimmerman inside his gated townhouse complex, after police found stolen jewelry and burglary tools inside his backpack.)

• Excluding any testimony from audio experts who could definitively ID Zimmerman's voice screaming for help on 911 calls as Martin bashed his head against a concrete sidewalk.

• Allowing, conversely, the last-minute request of plainly desperate prosecutors to have jurors consider an alternative lesser charge of manslaughter to try to secure some kind of conviction, any kind of punishment, in the complete absence of a sound murder case.

• Never sanctioning the prosecution despite Zimmerman's lawyers justifiably filing no fewer than six formal complaints against the state for withholding exculpatory and other evidence from them in violation of discovery rules.

• Yet repeatedly overruling — at times even reprimanding — Zimmerman's lawyers when they objected to the underhanded tactics of the prosecution.

• And even, in one of the most bizarre interventions by a judge many court watchers have ever observed in a criminal case, directly grilling defendant Zimmerman not once, but three times about his intentions to personally testify — while scolding his lawyers not to counsel him in what seemed to many to be an attempt by the court to bully him into taking the stand.

Seeing prosecutors losing the case, Nelson jumped into the ring to give them a direct shot at Zimmerman in a last-ditch attempt to make him look guilty in front of the jury.

Even former prosecutors slammed Nelson for her obnoxious impartiality. Andrew C. McCarthy, a former U.S. attorney who has prosecuted major criminal cases, called the trumped-up Zimmerman case a "travesty" of justice from start to finish. Any other judge would have thrown the case out as the garbage it was.

"In presiding over the trial of George Zimmerman, Judge Debra Nelson has made some awful rulings — none worse than failing to direct a verdict of acquittal on the preposterous second-degree 'depraved mind' murder charge," McCarthy wrote.

"The state's evidence that Zimmerman had the necessary criminal intent is non-existent, much less sufficient to meet the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' standard," he explained. "Compelling evidence, moreover, establishes that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, a claim the state has not come close to refuting."

Yet Nelson prevented jurors from hearing all that evidence. Over and over again, she ruled as inadmissible key facts and data that could have reinforced Zimmerman's plea of self-defense.

Nelson has higher ambitions, having twice applied for open seats on Florida's supreme court. Let's hope for the sake of impartial justice the governor continues to pass her over. She really has no business sitting on any bench.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily

Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

I think this judge does favor the prosecution and had no love for the defense lawyers, but she was much fairer than this article indicates. There would have been some appeal-able issues, but she did nothing outlandish.

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

 

[Christo]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

 

[jon_mx]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

They did. They called Zimmerman a liar over and over and over again largely because of this. They started out on the concrete and the struggle moved into the grass. I believe initially Zimmerman did hit his head on the concrete, but he told the story which implied it was worse than it was. Yeah, Zimmerman probably embellished, but the facts still supported many key parts of his story.

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

 

[Christo]

Alan Dershowitz: This is a case that should never have been brought in the first place. . . . There was reasonable doubt all over it.

 

[jon_mx]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

Not according to the laws in Florida.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

So now that Zimmerman was acquitted of all charges, will you accept that it was indeed self-defense and that Martin was the aggressor and responsible for his own death.

 

[Christo]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[The Commish]

Hope he's learned something from this whole thing. Can't say I am surprised by the verdicts in the least. Major thanks to Ramasay, YankeeFan and the other LawyerGuys helping us wade through the and get good information. I learned a great deal, especially about Florida law. Texas has always seemed like the closest state we have to "the wild west" but Florida seems to be right up there with them. Wondering what, if anything, the legislature down there had learned from this.

I find this rather humorous coming from someone who crapped all over this thread numerous times with outlandish spin after claiming repeatedly he had no dogs in this race.

Regardless of what you think, I didn't care if Zimmerman walked or fried

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Zimmerman's lawyer says they're concerned about his safety. I guess he can gun down anyone he sees if he's in perpetual fear for his life.

Honestly, I doubt this is the last time we hear about George Zimmerman shooting somebody.

 

[jon_mx]

Alan Dershowitz: This is a case that should never have been brought in the first place. . . . There was reasonable doubt all over it.

Dershowitz had it right from the beginning. He was one of the few voices of reason early on.

 

[Rayderr]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

 

[Christo]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

It's a misconception of the law. He didn't have to suffer major injuries to claim self-defense, he had to reasonably believe that he was going to suffer major injuries.

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

 

[Dr Oadi]

So now that Zimmerman was acquitted of all charges, will you accept that it was indeed self-defense and that Martin was the aggressor and responsible for his own death.

Absolutely not! The witch hunt shall go on. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/news/zimmerman-civil-rights-charges-142917019.html

 

[Rayderr]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Hope he's learned something from this whole thing. Can't say I am surprised by the verdicts in the least. Major thanks to Ramasay, YankeeFan and the other LawyerGuys helping us wade through the and get good information. I learned a great deal, especially about Florida law. Texas has always seemed like the closest state we have to "the wild west" but Florida seems to be right up there with them. Wondering what, if anything, the legislature down there had learned from this.

You do realize this wasn't a stand your ground case, and the portion of the self defense laws in Florida that applied to this case are equal to that of most states in the country.. Including the one you live in..

In my state it takes more than just the simple claim of it being "self defense". That's essentially the "burden" the defense has in FL.

You're going to have to provide a link before I believe you.

To be specific before the usual suspects start to swarm....in SC, the law is specific to a dwelling, residence, vehicle. So if a common walking area is "dwelling" then I'd say I am wrong based on this:

PROTECTION OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY ACT

The stated intent of the legislation is to codify the common law castle doctrine, which recognizes that a person’s home is his castle, and to extend the doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and the person’s place of business. This bill authorizes the lawful use of deadly force under certain circumstances against an intruder or attacker in a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle. The bill provides that there is no duty to retreat if (1) the person is in a place where he has a right to be, including the person’s place of business, (2) the person is not engaged in an unlawful activity, and (3) the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent death, great bodily injury, or the commission of a violent crime. A person who lawfully uses deadly force is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action, unless the person against whom deadly force was used is a law enforcement officer acting in the performance of his official duties and he identifies himself in accordance with applicable law or the person using deadly force knows or reasonably should have known the person is a law enforcement officer.

H.4301 (R412) was signed by the Governor on June 9, 2006.

That says nothing about the burden of proof.

It also says nothing specific to dwelling, vehicle or business. "The bill provides that there is no duty to retreat if (1) the person is in a place where he has a right to be, including..." those places, not specific to them. It also includes an immunity provision. It's basically Florida, Commish.

 

[timschochet]

The patronizing, arrogant "I told you so" tone of many people in this thread is hard for me to stomach.

1. I love Dershowitz, but he is wrong. Of course this case should have gone to trial. Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter(not murder 2). The prosecution could have won this case on the evidence had they been competent. Zimmerman deserves to be in prison right now, and he's not because the state blew it.

2. Zimmerman is not going to be suing any media outlets. If he did he'd get his ### kicked in court.

3. Zimmerman is not going to be found immune from a civil lawsuit which is already in place. Zimmerman will be forced to take the stand, reasonable doubt is removed, so I believe he will likely lose this lawsuit.

4. Many of you "I told you so" crowd were also predicting widespread rioting. Are you willing to admit that you were wrong about that?

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

 

[Rayderr]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

Following is not an act of aggression.

 

[squistion]

The patronizing, arrogant "I told you so" tone of many people in this thread is hard for me to stomach.

1. I love Dershowitz, but he is wrong. Of course this case should have gone to trial. Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter(not murder 2). The prosecution could have won this case on the evidence had they been competent. Zimmerman deserves to be in prison right now, and he's not because the state blew it.

2. Zimmerman is not going to be suing any media outlets. If he did he'd get his ### kicked in court.

3. Zimmerman is not going to be found immune from a civil lawsuit which is already in place. Zimmerman will be forced to take the stand, reasonable doubt is removed, so I believe he will likely lose this lawsuit.

4. Many of you "I told you so" crowd were also predicting widespread rioting. Are you willing to admit that you were wrong about that?

He filed suit for defamation against NBC before the trial, so unless that is dropped it should go forward.

 

[timschochet]

The patronizing, arrogant "I told you so" tone of many people in this thread is hard for me to stomach.

1. I love Dershowitz, but he is wrong. Of course this case should have gone to trial. Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter(not murder 2). The prosecution could have won this case on the evidence had they been competent. Zimmerman deserves to be in prison right now, and he's not because the state blew it.

2. Zimmerman is not going to be suing any media outlets. If he did he'd get his ### kicked in court.

3. Zimmerman is not going to be found immune from a civil lawsuit which is already in place. Zimmerman will be forced to take the stand, reasonable doubt is removed, so I believe he will likely lose this lawsuit.

4. Many of you "I told you so" crowd were also predicting widespread rioting. Are you willing to admit that you were wrong about that?

He filed suit for defamation against NBC before the trial, so unless that is dropped it should go forward.

I didn't know that. If I had to guess it would have been for show. Not a chance he wins that suit, IMO.

 

[jonessed]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Astro Turf.

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

Following is not an act of aggression.

Really? I disagree. GZ's actions caused the entire event and he gets to walk. BS verdict.

 

[timschochet]

Man I feel the same way this morning as I did after the original OJ trial. This guilty #### got away with it. It's awful.

 

[Dr Oadi]

No blacks on the jury. Juror number 6 may be black may be Hispanic we don't know..... Not saying white women cant bring justice but white women have been taught as the most vulnerable people to black men..... Bet b funny.

 

[jonessed]

The patronizing, arrogant "I told you so" tone of many people in this thread is hard for me to stomach.

1. I love Dershowitz, but he is wrong. Of course this case should have gone to trial. Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter(not murder 2). The prosecution could have won this case on the evidence had they been competent. Zimmerman deserves to be in prison right now, and he's not because the state blew it.

2. Zimmerman is not going to be suing any media outlets. If he did he'd get his ### kicked in court.

3. Zimmerman is not going to be found immune from a civil lawsuit which is already in place. Zimmerman will be forced to take the stand, reasonable doubt is removed, so I believe he will likely lose this lawsuit.

4. Many of you "I told you so" crowd were also predicting widespread rioting. Are you willing to admit that you were wrong about that?

He filed suit for defamation against NBC before the trial, so unless that is dropped it should go forward.

I didn't know that. If I had to guess it would have been for show. Not a chance he wins that suit, IMO.

He has a pretty good case against CNN for publicly sharing his SS number.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

You've got the media narrative down but seem to be missing the story told in the trial. It was established that Trayvon profiled Zimmerman too. You cannot logically believe George followed Trayvon to the crime scene. How did Trayvon get there after running from there? Page 30 of this thread. Trayvon either hid or doubled back. That issue has not been adequately addressed in well over year. You break someone's nose on a dark rainy night at a time when you could be safely inside. You mount that person and do not relent after he cries 20 times for help, and even after an eyewitness yells at you to stop. You get shot. That's your fault.

 

[Rayderr]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

Following is not an act of aggression.

Really? I disagree. GZ's actions caused the entire event and he gets to walk. BS verdict.

Had TM not attacked GZ, this entire event wouldn't have happened.

 

[Fennis]

Shouldn't this thread be shut down now?

No, let's keep it open so the bigots hopefully will continue to collect in one place and spend countless hours making posts the rest of us can ignore if we wish to.

 

[Ursa M]

So no riots despite the media trying to incite one?

[cnn]

We go live now to queens where we have reports of black men going door to door dumping garbage cans....Oh Mercy...oh here we go! Ladies and gentlemen we knew something like this was bound to happen. Usually these smaller incidents give way to bigger, more violent.... Wait.... Never mind as we look in live it appears these are just sanitation workers making their morning rounds"

[/cnn]

If there is one organization that has lost big time in this case, it's CNN. They are to news what MTV is to music - completely worthless. The once proud purveyor of properly researched news is now a mouldering husk, wallowing in sensationalism and other people's misery.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

The patronizing, arrogant "I told you so" tone of many people in this thread is hard for me to stomach.

1. I love Dershowitz, but he is wrong. Of course this case should have gone to trial. Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter(not murder 2). The prosecution could have won this case on the evidence had they been competent. Zimmerman deserves to be in prison right now, and he's not because the state blew it.

2. Zimmerman is not going to be suing any media outlets. If he did he'd get his ### kicked in court.

3. Zimmerman is not going to be found immune from a civil lawsuit which is already in place. Zimmerman will be forced to take the stand, reasonable doubt is removed, so I believe he will likely lose this lawsuit.

4. Many of you "I told you so" crowd were also predicting widespread rioting. Are you willing to admit that you were wrong about that?

Yeah when you admit YOU were wrong about ZImmerman's guilt. Zimmerman was acquitted of ALL charges, including manslaughter. Martin was the aggressor and ZImmerman was innocent.

Had Martin not attacked Zimmerman he would still be alive, I cannot believe how dense you are.

He attacked the wrong person, one who could defend himself. No different than a home invasion, tried to cause grievous bodily harm and was killed in the attempt.

Huge victory for gun owners and the way it should be.

 

[Christo]

Ben Jealous: This was racial profiling.

Uh, what evidence do you have of that?

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

You've got the media narrative down but seem to be missing the story told in the trial. It was established that Trayvon profiled Zimmerman too. You cannot logically believe George followed Trayvon to the crime scene. How did Trayvon get there after running from there? Page 30 of this thread. Trayvon either hid or doubled back. That issue has not been adequately addressed in well over year. You break someone's nose on a dark rainy night at a time when you could be safely inside. You mount that person and do not relent after he cries 20 times for help, and even after an eyewitness yells at you to stop. You get shot. That's your fault.

So it's a fist fight. GZ got his ### kicked but he brought a gun to a fist fight. Just fight it out. In my day we fought and we both lived. This kid is dead and he had every right to be where he was. It's bull####, period.

 

[lod01]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

He did not profile, he stopped following and he was not the aggressor. Other than than you are 100% correct. Martin would have easily gone home and drank his watermelon tea and his Skittles, HE chose to attack, he chose poorly.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Ben Jealous: This was racial profiling.

Uh, what evidence do you have of that?

Evidence is not needed. He is president and CEO of the biggest civil rights org in the US.

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

Following is not an act of aggression.

Really? I disagree. GZ's actions caused the entire event and he gets to walk. BS verdict.

Had TM not attacked GZ, this entire event wouldn't have happened.

And you have proof of that? How? Because GZ said so? Unfortunately the other half of the battle cannot speak to what happened.

 

[T Bell]

Free TV's!

 

[Johnnymac]

I contend that GZ's head was never banged on the concrete. His injuries were not consistent with that. The prosecution should have focused more on that issue.

What caused the injuries to the back of his head? You can debate their severity. But you can't deny that he was injured.

Very minor injuries. He got away with murder, period.

The Jury disagrees with you.

So what. I disagree with the jury.

They're opinion matters. Yours does not.

Every opinion is questionable, even the jury's. I listened to the entire trial. If his head was banged into the concrete I believe his injuries would have much more severe. He profiled, followed, and thus he was the aggressor. This kid should still be alive. Who's fault is that?

He did not profile, he stopped following and he was not the aggressor. Other than than you are 100% correct. Martin would have easily gone home and drank his watermelon tea and his Skittles, HE chose to attack, he chose poorly.

Again, you only have GZ's story. And he did not stop following. If you believe that there is no help for you. He followed, been pretty well established.