Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[tdoss]

It's just so sickening.

Her murdered a teen in cold blood and he just walks free.

Because of him Trayvon's parents will carry this pain to their graves. Their son is dead. If anybody here has lost a child you know the pain never goes away.

Just doesn't seem right.

It isn't right. Martin didn't deserve to die.

Unfortunately, Zimmerman didn't deserve to go to prison for Martin's death either. Maybe the parents should have taught their son to not steal, do drugs, or brag on twitter about getting in fistfights on the street. Oh...and not to get in a fight with a "weird $#%$&@ cracker" he thinks might be following him either.

I heard that testimony (from the GF on the phone) again today and I just can't help but shake my head over how nobody seems to recognize how incredibly racist TM must have been to so easily, in so derogatory a fashion, use "cracker".

Yeah...I feel bad for TMs parents, but maybe they should have done a better job.

I didn't follow the case, but him smoking weed and stealing is irrelevant. Surely that doesn't warrant him being murdered?

I just know the basics. He was on his way back from the store when an overzealous neighborhood watch volunteer got into an altercation with him (despite being told my the dispatcher to NOT follow him) and shot him dead.

And you can save the "racist language" mess. You really can. This entire board admitted to using the "n-word" damn near.

Obviously...

Not trying to get your goat or aggravate you but you're obviously just speaking emotionally...you're pissed, and I get that...but if you were looking at the evidence that was provided...I think you'd be hard pressed to give any other verdict but "Not Guilty". I don't see how you could get to anything other than that...except, like I said before...the best case scenario for the pro-Trayvon side was a "hung jury" with the off-chance you had one or two jurists who could not let go of the emotional response to this case. There was absolutely NO way this was going to be "Guilty" given the evidence.

 

[Mario Kart]

First pic of the jury released:

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/2805/ocjd.jpg

Why are there seven of them?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

First pic of the jury released:

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/2805/ocjd.jpg

Why are there seven of them?

Judge was in on it

 

[Gachi]

It's just so sickening.

Her murdered a teen in cold blood and he just walks free.

Because of him Trayvon's parents will carry this pain to their graves. Their son is dead. If anybody here has lost a child you know the pain never goes away.

Just doesn't seem right.

It isn't right. Martin didn't deserve to die.

Unfortunately, Zimmerman didn't deserve to go to prison for Martin's death either. Maybe the parents should have taught their son to not steal, do drugs, or brag on twitter about getting in fistfights on the street. Oh...and not to get in a fight with a "weird $#%$&@ cracker" he thinks might be following him either.

I heard that testimony (from the GF on the phone) again today and I just can't help but shake my head over how nobody seems to recognize how incredibly racist TM must have been to so easily, in so derogatory a fashion, use "cracker".

Yeah...I feel bad for TMs parents, but maybe they should have done a better job.

I didn't follow the case, but him smoking weed and stealing is irrelevant. Surely that doesn't warrant him being murdered?

I just know the basics. He was on his way back from the store when an overzealous neighborhood watch volunteer got into an altercation with him (despite being told my the dispatcher to NOT follow him) and shot him dead.

And you can save the "racist language" mess. You really can. This entire board admitted to using the "n-word" damn near.

Maybe this can help you with the details:

-Zimmerman was willing to tell the police investigators everything, right up front, and later at the station, and later in the walk through at the scene. His various statements are exactly as consistent as they should be. The investigator said that is to be expected, and that if what Zimmerman said every time (immediately after, on interview in the station, and later in a walk through) was 100% the same, that is what would be suspicious and is what would indicate a likely fabrication. The investigator is completely correct about that.

-When being interviewed by the investigator, the investigator lied and told Zimmerman there was a video recording of the event. What did Zimmerman say? "THANK GOD"

-Zimmerman passed a lie detector/voice stress analyzer test, which he voluntarily took.

-Responding officers noted Zimmerman's back was wetter and covered in more grass than his front, and Martin's pants had grass stains on the knees (which were still there at trial in evidence)

-The lead investigator in the case said that he believed Z was telling the truth.

-Zimmerman had an injured nose (according to the forensic pathologist, who is THE MAN in that field), it was probably broken.

-The forensic and ballistic evidence are consistent with Zimmerman's claim that he shot Martin while Martin was on top of him

-John Good's eye witness testimony is consistent with Zimmerman's story. He was the closest witness with the best view. He basically said Martin was on top, pounding on Z, while Z was screaming for help

-Zimmerman had at least two separate and distinct hemotobas (sp?) on the back of his head, consistent with a FORCEFUL impact on a hard, flat, not-entirely- smooth surface (like concrete)

-Martin's only injury, other than the single gunshot round, was a small cut on one of his fingers

-Martin had a 4 minute head start (prosecution didn't even try to disagree with defense about this) on Zimmerman from the time Zimmerman lost sight of him to the time they interacted. This alone makes it clear that the confrontation only happened because Martin wanted it to

-Following somebody is not in any way illegal, and being followed by somebody (in this case it seems Z was following at a distance prior to losing sight of Martin for several minutes) is absolutely not legal grounds to attack them.

-Martin, for what it's worth, had a bunch of texts and facebook posts about fighting, being in fights, and having other people ask Martin to teach them to fight and even something about how to break somebody's nose in one punch, as well as tests from Martin about how the other guy in one of his fights didn't bleed enough

-The girl on the phone with Martin prior to the incident (not his girlfriend, just a girl he'd been talking to for 2-3 weeks) didn't talk to investigators for some time afterwards, and not until after talking to the crooked Martin family attorney first. She committed perjury at least twice, she initially lied about her age because she didn't want to be involved, and she lied on the stand during trial by saying Martin never told her anything about any fights or fighting. We have phone records with texts than say otherwise. Those records, BTW, were not heard by the jury due to gross prosecutorial misconduct. The prosecution withheld evidence from the defense in clear violation of discovery laws. Look for them to possibly be disbarred and possibly face other criminal or civil sanctions.

-Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, initially said that was not his sons screaming on the 911 call, he later lied about this in court. The prosecution even moved to strike the testimony of BOTH police officers who were there and said that Tracy Martin clearly said and mouthed "no". Tracy's lame excuse was that he moved back in his chair and a squeaky wheel may have made it sound like he said no, but he didn't.

-The law says (and it should) that lethal force is justified and lawful when such force is reasonably believed to be necessary to prevent imminent serious bodily harm or death. NO injuries even need to actually be received, so long as the person reasonably fears imminent serious bodily harm or death (or forcible felony).

-Zimmerman stated on the first call to dispatch that Martin was acting like he was on drugs or something. THC was found in his bloodstream and the state's own witness, the medical examiner responsible for the autopsy, stated that the THC levels were high enough they could have affected Martin's behavior.

*yawn*

A bunch of nothing.

Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jwp]

First pic of the jury released:

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/2805/ocjd.jpg

Why are there seven of them?

And one should be dark skinned.

 

[Abrantes]

First pic of the jury released:

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/2805/ocjd.jpg

Why are there seven of them?

Now I realize this was 'shopped.

 

[Billy Bats]

*yawn*

A bunch of nothing.

Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wear your hoodie with pride, G, keep that #### real.

 

[tdoss]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

 

[tdoss]

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

When did Tim become the most liberal minded person on this board?

Sorry...hard to peg Tim down...you're right...he'll flip and flop on the deck like a fish.

 

[Mario Kart]

It's just so sickening.

Her murdered a teen in cold blood and he just walks free.

Because of him Trayvon's parents will carry this pain to their graves. Their son is dead. If anybody here has lost a child you know the pain never goes away.

Just doesn't seem right.

It isn't right. Martin didn't deserve to die.

Unfortunately, Zimmerman didn't deserve to go to prison for Martin's death either. Maybe the parents should have taught their son to not steal, do drugs, or brag on twitter about getting in fistfights on the street. Oh...and not to get in a fight with a "weird $#%$&@ cracker" he thinks might be following him either.

I heard that testimony (from the GF on the phone) again today and I just can't help but shake my head over how nobody seems to recognize how incredibly racist TM must have been to so easily, in so derogatory a fashion, use "cracker".

Yeah...I feel bad for TMs parents, but maybe they should have done a better job.

I didn't follow the case, but him smoking weed and stealing is irrelevant. Surely that doesn't warrant him being murdered?

I just know the basics. He was on his way back from the store when an overzealous neighborhood watch volunteer got into an altercation with him (despite being told my the dispatcher to NOT follow him) and shot him dead.

And you can save the "racist language" mess. You really can. This entire board admitted to using the "n-word" damn near.

Maybe this can help you with the details:

-Zimmerman was willing to tell the police investigators everything, right up front, and later at the station, and later in the walk through at the scene. His various statements are exactly as consistent as they should be. The investigator said that is to be expected, and that if what Zimmerman said every time (immediately after, on interview in the station, and later in a walk through) was 100% the same, that is what would be suspicious and is what would indicate a likely fabrication. The investigator is completely correct about that.

-When being interviewed by the investigator, the investigator lied and told Zimmerman there was a video recording of the event. What did Zimmerman say? "THANK GOD"

-Zimmerman passed a lie detector/voice stress analyzer test, which he voluntarily took.

-Responding officers noted Zimmerman's back was wetter and covered in more grass than his front, and Martin's pants had grass stains on the knees (which were still there at trial in evidence)

-The lead investigator in the case said that he believed Z was telling the truth.

-Zimmerman had an injured nose (according to the forensic pathologist, who is THE MAN in that field), it was probably broken.

-The forensic and ballistic evidence are consistent with Zimmerman's claim that he shot Martin while Martin was on top of him

-John Good's eye witness testimony is consistent with Zimmerman's story. He was the closest witness with the best view. He basically said Martin was on top, pounding on Z, while Z was screaming for help

-Zimmerman had at least two separate and distinct hemotobas (sp?) on the back of his head, consistent with a FORCEFUL impact on a hard, flat, not-entirely- smooth surface (like concrete)

-Martin's only injury, other than the single gunshot round, was a small cut on one of his fingers

-Martin had a 4 minute head start (prosecution didn't even try to disagree with defense about this) on Zimmerman from the time Zimmerman lost sight of him to the time they interacted. This alone makes it clear that the confrontation only happened because Martin wanted it to

-Following somebody is not in any way illegal, and being followed by somebody (in this case it seems Z was following at a distance prior to losing sight of Martin for several minutes) is absolutely not legal grounds to attack them.

-Martin, for what it's worth, had a bunch of texts and facebook posts about fighting, being in fights, and having other people ask Martin to teach them to fight and even something about how to break somebody's nose in one punch, as well as tests from Martin about how the other guy in one of his fights didn't bleed enough

-The girl on the phone with Martin prior to the incident (not his girlfriend, just a girl he'd been talking to for 2-3 weeks) didn't talk to investigators for some time afterwards, and not until after talking to the crooked Martin family attorney first. She committed perjury at least twice, she initially lied about her age because she didn't want to be involved, and she lied on the stand during trial by saying Martin never told her anything about any fights or fighting. We have phone records with texts than say otherwise. Those records, BTW, were not heard by the jury due to gross prosecutorial misconduct. The prosecution withheld evidence from the defense in clear violation of discovery laws. Look for them to possibly be disbarred and possibly face other criminal or civil sanctions.

-Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, initially said that was not his sons screaming on the 911 call, he later lied about this in court. The prosecution even moved to strike the testimony of BOTH police officers who were there and said that Tracy Martin clearly said and mouthed "no". Tracy's lame excuse was that he moved back in his chair and a squeaky wheel may have made it sound like he said no, but he didn't.

-The law says (and it should) that lethal force is justified and lawful when such force is reasonably believed to be necessary to prevent imminent serious bodily harm or death. NO injuries even need to actually be received, so long as the person reasonably fears imminent serious bodily harm or death (or forcible felony).

-Zimmerman stated on the first call to dispatch that Martin was acting like he was on drugs or something. THC was found in his bloodstream and the state's own witness, the medical examiner responsible for the autopsy, stated that the THC levels were high enough they could have affected Martin's behavior.

*yawn*

A bunch of nothing.

Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're the only poster in this thread providing any humor in here.

 

[tdoss]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

There wasn't a lot of evidence in this case. The case was mainly based on George Zimmerman's account of what happen. He was found not guilty by the jury by reasonable doubt. They didn't find him innocent.

Agreed...so...what's the alternative?

People calling for "justice for trayvon"...what would you do here? There wasn't enough evidence...you can't give a verdict of guilty just because you felt like he was lying or think he did it for racial reasons or anything other than evidence. The evidence we have is what it was...we have NO choice but to rule not guilty. We can feel he's still guilty...much like we do with OJ...but making comments like the "street will catch up to Zim" is repulsive and should be called out on the carpet.

I'd think a more rational mind would or could say..."Zim was definitely responsible and I wished there was more evidence one way or the other...but I understand how the jury ruled the way they did"...but no...you get crap like, "The jury should go home and kill themselves"...that guy should not have a job by Monday and EVERYONE should be backing that decision. I'll be damned if I ever back someone saying jurists should die...that is beyond ugly and it's scary to have that kind of thinking out there and people aren't calling his @zz on the carpet for it.

 

[Gachi]

*yawn*

A bunch of nothing.

Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wear your hoodie with pride, G, keep that #### real.

What's that supposed to mean?

Oh wait, all black men are thugs right? All black men are gangstas and are in gangs? All black men "keep it real?"

Whites are some funny people. They make outlandish comments like the one above, and claim to not be racist.

 

[Joe McGee]

*yawn*

A bunch of nothing.

Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wear your hoodie with pride, G, keep that #### real.

What's that supposed to mean?

Oh wait, all black men are thugs right? All black men are gangstas and are in gangs? All black men "keep it real?"

Whites are some funny people. They make outlandish comments like the one above, and claim to not be racist.

My, you're quite the troll.

 

[Gachi]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

 

[Gachi]

*yawn*

A bunch of nothing.

Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wear your hoodie with pride, G, keep that #### real.

What's that supposed to mean?

Oh wait, all black men are thugs right? All black men are gangstas and are in gangs? All black men "keep it real?"

Whites are some funny people. They make outlandish comments like the one above, and claim to not be racist.

My, you're quite the troll.

How am I a troll? Because I speak the truth?

The truth hurts, I'm not going to sugar coat it.

 

[Statorama]

a black boy can be shot with impunity by a more or less white man

Paul Campos is a professor of law at the University of Colorado at Boulder.

Think about that for a minute. This meathead is a teacher. Another one of those guys with "no dog in this fight" says something like "a more or less white man"? Yeah, not hard to determine where he's coming from there.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

 

[tdoss]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

Actually...I have to thank you for continuing the conversation...seriously, I was expecting someone to come back blasting and drive this discussion right into the muck.

I don't disagree...I came from a pretty poor upbringing...in my neighborhood of poverty, I was one of the less fortunate among my peers. I fully understand having one foot stuck in mud and the other on solid ground. However, it takes a change of scenery, focus and mindset to get up out of that hole. And that's where the leadership in the black community is failing.

I'll tell you what the problem is coming from the white side of things...most conservatives have the mindset of, "regardless of your upbringing, environment, etc...you are responsible for yourself. You have no one else to blame or depend upon but yourself. If you fail, it's on you."

However, it's easy to take that tack when you don't have a weight on you from birth. But again, you're not going to change a conservative to think anything other than "do for yourself"...and that's regardless of race.

 

[jonessed]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

There is no biological basis for race?

 

[Billy Bats]

They're replaying parts of the trial on CNNHN and for the first time I just seen the Judge badger Zimmerman about not testifying, repeatedly overrule the defense's objections and get pretty damn cocky with them.

Lawyers, wtf was that whole sequence about? Can she get in trouble for her actions or was that normal? It doesn't seem like the way a judge should be acting in court and towards the lawyers and defendant. I don't watch a lot of trials but that seemed out of the ordinary.

 

[tdoss]

a black boy can be shot with impunity by a more or less white man

Paul Campos is a professor of law at the University of Colorado at Boulder.

Think about that for a minute. This meathead is a teacher. Another one of those guys with "no dog in this fight" says something like "a more or less white man"? Yeah, not hard to determine where he's coming from there.

If you wanted to be a callous jack@zz in response...I could see the retort being:

"I'd think the ACLU would be applauding this case since an Hispanic has been given the same status or benefits that are usually reserved for whites. A positive step for minorities."

 

[Gachi]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

 

[Statorama]

Obama makes statement following Zimmerman verdict

Posted by
CNN Political Unit

(CNN) - President Barack Obama issued the following statement Sunday following the verdict in the George Zimmerman trial.

"The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we’re doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we’re doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that’s a job for all of us. That’s the way to honor Trayvon Martin."


Filed under: President Obama

Using Trayvon Martin's corpse as a prop for his gun control agenda is pretty low even for a lying thieving petty piece of nothing like him.

 

[Gachi]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

There is no biological basis for race?

Nope.

U ever heard of an "Asian American" gene? What about the "caucasian" gene? How about a "biracial" gene?

Get my point?

The concept of "race" only exists to classify people.

 

[tdoss]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Yeah, I'd love to hear a legit reply to this.

 

[Defenze]

So I'm new to the thread, what have I missed? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

 

[Gachi]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

Actually...I have to thank you for continuing the conversation...seriously, I was expecting someone to come back blasting and drive this discussion right into the muck.

I don't disagree...I came from a pretty poor upbringing...in my neighborhood of poverty, I was one of the less fortunate among my peers. I fully understand having one foot stuck in mud and the other on solid ground. However, it takes a change of scenery, focus and mindset to get up out of that hole. And that's where the leadership in the black community is failing.

I'll tell you what the problem is coming from the white side of things...most conservatives have the mindset of, "regardless of your upbringing, environment, etc...you are responsible for yourself. You have no one else to blame or depend upon but yourself. If you fail, it's on you."

However, it's easy to take that tack when you don't have a weight on you from birth. But again, you're not going to change a conservative to think anything other than "do for yourself"...and that's regardless of race.

You'e absolutely right about mindset.

A large portion of the black community suffers from what I like to call "generational curses," meaning basically it's hard to overcome certain obstacles that you were born into. For example, my younger cousin just had a baby and she's 15. Guess what? Her mother had her at age 14. You know what else? Her grandmother had her mother at age 16. Get my point? It's extremely difficult to break the cycle when it's been in place for so long. 7 out 10 black children are born out of wedlock. That's a huge issue, right? Well it's not an issue unless the individual thinks it's an issue. And a lot of people see nothing wrong with OOW births. And that's where the issue lies: an entire race of people who celebrate mediocrity and look down on change. Some blacks love the world "sellout" when somebody doesn't live up to stereotypes. I've been accused of "talking white" and being a "preppy college boy" but I don't give a damn. I'm going to make something of myself. I wish more blacks had my mindset.

 

[tdoss]

So I'm new to the thread, what have I missed? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

You won.

 

[Gachi]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing.

How do you not see the issue with this?

 

[timschochet]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

This is highly simplistic, not at all accurate, and VERY misleading. It originated in racist revisionist historical arguments which attempt to excuse the African slave trade. It's since worked it's way into some extreme conservative rhetoric.

 

[Pots]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing.

How do you not see the issue with this?

I'm sure most everybody would disagree with you that Zimmerman got no consequences from his actions that day.

 

[Joe McGee]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing.

How do you not see the issue with this?

So you have no evidence to defend your position and in reality this case is all about you and your prejudices, it's not really about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. I'm surprised (not really).

 

[Funktrain]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a youth was killed in self defense as proven by the evidence presented in this case, and the man he attacked, walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing, as dictated by the laws of the land.

How do you not see the issue with this?

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Abrantes]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing.

How do you not see the issue with this?

According to American law and the case presented, that was the proper outcome. Anything beyond that is thirst for vengeance, not justice.

 

[Billy Bats]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing.

How do you not see the issue with this?

So you admit that you didnt follow the case, then say the justice system failed you "because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free". And everyone else is the racist?

 

[Gachi]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing.

How do you not see the issue with this?

So you have no evidence to defend your position and in reality this case is all about you and your prejudices, it's not really about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. I'm surprised (not really).

This.

It is not as simple as "a black guy was killed, and his murderer got off scott-free." Anything who thinks it is that simple needs a major reality check.

 

[Ghost Rider]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

Riiiight. We are delusional.

Perhaps you should look at all of the FACTS of this case, without prejudice, bias or racist attitudes. If you can do that, it is pretty easy to see why Zimmerman was found not guilty.

 

[Abrantes]

Edit: Never mind. This line of discussion isn't going anywhere.

 

[Mario Kart]

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

But, the justice system did not fail "black" people in the Zimmerman case.

 

[tdoss]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

Actually...I have to thank you for continuing the conversation...seriously, I was expecting someone to come back blasting and drive this discussion right into the muck.

I don't disagree...I came from a pretty poor upbringing...in my neighborhood of poverty, I was one of the less fortunate among my peers. I fully understand having one foot stuck in mud and the other on solid ground. However, it takes a change of scenery, focus and mindset to get up out of that hole. And that's where the leadership in the black community is failing.

I'll tell you what the problem is coming from the white side of things...most conservatives have the mindset of, "regardless of your upbringing, environment, etc...you are responsible for yourself. You have no one else to blame or depend upon but yourself. If you fail, it's on you."

However, it's easy to take that tack when you don't have a weight on you from birth. But again, you're not going to change a conservative to think anything other than "do for yourself"...and that's regardless of race.

You'e absolutely right about mindset.

A large portion of the black community suffers from what I like to call "generational curses," meaning basically it's hard to overcome certain obstacles that you were born into. For example, my younger cousin just had a baby and she's 15. Guess what? Her mother had her at age 14. You know what else? Her grandmother had her mother at age 16. Get my point? It's extremely difficult to break the cycle when it's been in place for so long. 7 out 10 black children are born out of wedlock. That's a huge issue, right? Well it's not an issue unless the individual thinks it's an issue. And a lot of people see nothing wrong with OOW births. And that's where the issue lies: an entire race of people who celebrate mediocrity and look down on change. Some blacks love the world "sellout" when somebody doesn't live up to stereotypes. I've been accused of "talking white" and being a "preppy college boy" but I don't give a damn. I'm going to make something of myself. I wish more blacks had my mindset.

Exactly...the black community needs another MLK...and they should be tossing Sharpton and Jackson out on their ear.

But it's easier to point fingers at others and say "woa is me"...blame someone else...

I think things are changing for the better (obviously with a black president as an ultimate example) but there's some SERIOUS issues that need to be taken to task. A lot of the issues seems to be from the degradation of the family unit within the black community. Exalting movies and songs that call their mom's and sisters "biitches and hoes" and "we don't love 'em though" (I don't mean that literally...they're not calling their own mom or sister that...I'm saying as a race). Not that black women don't have some fault here as well...they're adapting to the mindset and end up pregnant too young and alone with no husband...only baby daddy's and it's a usually a joke or fully accepted to call someone a damn baby daddy...what the hell? That is ridamndiculous...he's not a baby daddy...he's a damned deadbeat that needs to take his @zz home, take care of his kids and provide for them and show them what it's like to be a father.

I grew up without a father...never met him...I'm no saint and FAR from being a perfect dad...but a lot can be said for "just showing up". Be there, be present and try...damn...as long as you're trying, who can fault you?

But we all have friends like this...dude's who are not taking care of their responsibilities. Guys with multiple women, babies in different houses...and not providing money or time enough for any of them. When your focus is not on your family...then how can the family survive or flourish? You're looking for those strange exceptions to the rule at this point...cause the broken family unit has that extra weight we both have talked about earlier...now add in it being a black, broken family and you've now got even more weight from jumpstreet. But back to my point...we all have these friends and do any of us say anything...or do we accept it? Do we ever call them out on this nonsense? I do...cause again, it's something that's a little bit closer to my heart...and if you don't listen...you don't "try"...then I'll probably just let you go as a friend. I know that sounds jacked up but damned if I need that in my life.

It's all about who you choose to surround yourself with...who do you run with...where's your mindset...what are your interests...etc?

People talking about Vick going to jail for those dogs lately...trying to make it seem unfair. Are you serious? The guy ran with idiots and decided to stay in "the life"...even though he was a millionaire (same with Hernandez...although, we have to wait for all the facts of this case to come down)...and what happened? Vick went to jail...said he was sorry and is back to making millions. I'd think he got off pretty lucky. Lucky that his ability and status allowed him to come back and make those dollars. I commend him.

But back to my point above...you've got guys having kids and not treating their women right...and it's not only accepted...it's exalted within the black community. Look at the top artists...from top to bottom there's a lot of questionable guys with serious character issues.

I commend you for doing all you can to succeed...regardless of your upbringing, social status, environment...we need a lot more of that (black, white, whatever) and a lot less acceptance of "thug life".

 

[tdoss]

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

It didn't this time.

It did.

How so? Given the evidence...you think the jury should've ruled "Guilty"...and of what? Based on what, specifically?

I know I'm not going to sway you and you're probably not going to sway me...but it still might be worth an attempt or two to discuss.

Because a black youth was killed and his murderer walks free, he gets no consequences. At all. No probation, no lesser charge, nothing.

How do you not see the issue with this?

But what can you do? We have the rules of evidence and you have to abide by them.

What else would you do? Just because it was a black youth that died...send the guy to jail without evidence? Just to "make it right" or like the NBA does..."a makeup call"?

 

[Kevrunner]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

What is your definition of "murder"? Trayvon was killed, but not murdered. The only rational discussion is was it in self defense or not. Unless your hatred for Hispanics has consumed you so much that you cannot think rationally.

 

[Zab]

Travyon, played by Jaden Smith, is shown at school, raising his hand in lit class. The wise Hispanic teacher, played by Antonio Banderas, calls on him. Trayvon stand up and recites lines of Shakespeare in a hip, cool, but moving rap. As he sits down Banderas smiles and nods at him with a wise, knowing approval.

Trayvon is seen hanging out after school on the lush greens of the front school yard with his friends, featuring the girl who played Precious, plus a mix of races: a white blonde girl, a Hispanic kid, an Urkel-looking black nerd, a white kid with his hat on backwards. A veritable Burger King Kids Club.

Cut to a dark apartment, where Zimmerman, played by Luis Guzman, is doing pull-ups, with the words FEAR and HATE inked on his knuckles. He then practices shooting his empty gun at himself in a mirror. "You talking to me?" Guzman says. "You in MY neighborhood?" He then sits down to watch Birth of a Nation.

Cut to Trayvon at home, at the dinner table with his parents, played by Jamie Foxx and Maya Angelou. They discuss Tray's future plans of being an airline pilot. "It's a mighty big responsibility," Jamie Foxx says. "Having all those souls onboard." "I know," Jaden/Tray says. "I want to be like Sully some day though."

After dinner his little brother asks him if he can go get some candy and tea. Even though it's raining out, Tray agrees. In slow-mo he zips up his hoody, pulled from the dryer.

Cut to Zimmerman patrolling the streets as rain pours on his uncovered head. He does tuck-and-rolls across neighbors' lawns, pulling out his gun and pointing it at dark shadows. A cat crosses his path and he fires at it. He chuckles mercilessly.

"Keep the change," Tray says with a smile to the woman working at the convenience store. With the snacks for his brother he walks out of the store, not before passing by a magazine with Sully on the cover. Tray smiles.

Cut to Trayvon skipping down the sidewalk. A group of multicultural young males is there smoking pot. "You wanna get high?" one asks. "No," Trayvon answers, "then I'll never be able to be a pilot." He continues to skip down the path and eventually enters the condo complex.

As Trayvon turns a corner, a sweaty and enraged Zimmerman emerges from the shadows. "Where do you think you're going, ******?"

Trayvon stumbles on his words and tries to answer but is silenced when Zim cold cocks himself with the gun and starts beating himself on the back of his own head. "Help! Help! Somebody help me!" Zimmerman screams.

"Please sir, I just want to return home to my brother and finish my homework," Trayvon pleads.

"That's too bad," Zimmerman says. He then empties his entire gun cartridge into the baby-faced teen. "It looks like your dog ate it."

 

[tdoss]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

This is highly simplistic, not at all accurate, and VERY misleading. It originated in racist revisionist historical arguments which attempt to excuse the African slave trade. It's since worked it's way into some extreme conservative rhetoric.

Interesting...guess you learn something new everyday. On a continent that has 57 countries...of which many are currently experiencing unbelievable genocide, rape and carnage from fellow countrymen...it's unheard of that there would be any history of slavery within the African culture. Thanks to whitey for bringing such a new concept to their borders. I'll just take your word for it because I really don't want 50 pages of discourse with you about it when it seems like we're actually having a decent discussion here. I concede the point.

 

[Abraham]

What the hell are you guys talking about?

 

[Joe McGee]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

This is highly simplistic, not at all accurate, and VERY misleading. It originated in racist revisionist historical arguments which attempt to excuse the African slave trade. It's since worked it's way into some extreme conservative rhetoric.

Interesting...guess you learn something new everyday. On a continent that has 57 countries...of which many are currently experiencing unbelievable genocide, rape and carnage from fellow countrymen...it's unheard of their being any history of slavery within the African culture. Thanks to whitey for bringing such a new concept to their borders. I'll just take your world for it because I really don't want 50 pages of discourse with you about it when it seems like we're actually having a decent discussion here. I concede the point.

 

[timschochet]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

Actually...I have to thank you for continuing the conversation...seriously, I was expecting someone to come back blasting and drive this discussion right into the muck.

I don't disagree...I came from a pretty poor upbringing...in my neighborhood of poverty, I was one of the less fortunate among my peers. I fully understand having one foot stuck in mud and the other on solid ground. However, it takes a change of scenery, focus and mindset to get up out of that hole. And that's where the leadership in the black community is failing.

I'll tell you what the problem is coming from the white side of things...most conservatives have the mindset of, "regardless of your upbringing, environment, etc...you are responsible for yourself. You have no one else to blame or depend upon but yourself. If you fail, it's on you."

However, it's easy to take that tack when you don't have a weight on you from birth. But again, you're not going to change a conservative to think anything other than "do for yourself"...and that's regardless of race.

You'e absolutely right about mindset.

A large portion of the black community suffers from what I like to call "generational curses," meaning basically it's hard to overcome certain obstacles that you were born into. For example, my younger cousin just had a baby and she's 15. Guess what? Her mother had her at age 14. You know what else? Her grandmother had her mother at age 16. Get my point? It's extremely difficult to break the cycle when it's been in place for so long. 7 out 10 black children are born out of wedlock. That's a huge issue, right? Well it's not an issue unless the individual thinks it's an issue. And a lot of people see nothing wrong with OOW births. And that's where the issue lies: an entire race of people who celebrate mediocrity and look down on change. Some blacks love the world "sellout" when somebody doesn't live up to stereotypes. I've been accused of "talking white" and being a "preppy college boy" but I don't give a damn. I'm going to make something of myself. I wish more blacks had my mindset.

Exactly...the black community needs another MLK...and they should be tossing Sharpton and Jackson out on their ear.

But it's easier to point fingers at others and say "woa is me"...blame someone else...

I think things are changing for the better (obviously with a black president as an ultimate example) but there's some SERIOUS issues that need to be taken to task. A lot of the issues seems to be from the degradation of the family unit within the black community. Exalting movies and songs that call their mom's and sisters "biitches and hoes" and "we don't love 'em though" (I don't mean that literally...they're not calling their own mom or sister that...I'm saying as a race). Not that black women don't have some fault here as well...they're adapting to the mindset and end up pregnant too young and alone with no husband...only baby daddy's and it's a usually a joke or fully accepted to call someone a damn baby daddy...what the hell? That is ridamndiculous...he's not a baby daddy...he's a damned deadbeat that needs to take his @zz home, take care of his kids and provide for them and show them what it's like to be a father.

I grew up without a father...never met him...I'm no saint and FAR from being a perfect dad...but a lot can be said for "just showing up". Be there, be present and try...damn...as long as you're trying, who can fault you?

But we all have friends like this...dude's who are not taking care of their responsibilities. Guys with multiple women, babies in different houses...and not providing money or time enough for any of them. When your focus is not on your family...then how can the family survive or flourish? You're looking for those strange exceptions to the rule at this point...cause the broken family unit has that extra weight we both have talked about earlier...now add in it being a black, broken family and you've now got even more weight from jumpstreet. But back to my point...we all have these friends and do any of us say anything...or do we accept it? Do we ever call them out on this nonsense? I do...cause again, it's something that's a little bit closer to my heart...and if you don't listen...you don't "try"...then I'll probably just let you go as a friend. I know that sounds jacked up but damned if I need that in my life.

It's all about who you choose to surround yourself with...who do you run with...where's your mindset...what are your interests...etc?

People talking about Vick going to jail for those dogs lately...trying to make it seem unfair. Are you serious? The guy ran with idiots and decided to stay in the lift...even though he was a millionaire (same with Hernandez...although, we have to wait for all the facts of this case to come down)...and what happened? Vick went to jail...said he was sorry and is back to making millions. I'd think he got off pretty lucky. Lucky that his ability and status allowed him to come back and make those dollars. I commend him.

But back to my point above...you've got guys having kids and not treating their women right...and it's not only accepted...it's exalted within the black community. Look at the top artists...from top to bottom there's a lot of questionable guys with serious character issues.

I commend you for doing all you can to succeed...regardless of your upbringing, social status, environment...we need a lot more of that (black, white, whatever) and a lot less acceptance of "thug life".

I think this is a great post by you. I agree with it almost 100%. I'm betting you're a much better dad than you give yourself credit for.

But- at the risk of being called yet again the guy with the most "liberal guilt" here (I hardly think that's true, BTW) neither you nor I nor anyone else here who is not black can have any idea what it's like to be a black person, and specifically we have no idea what it's like to be treated by the police as if we're always under suspicion. That is not an excuse, and it doesn't take away from any of your points. But it IS real, and until you're able to at least empathize with it, I don't think you can appreciate the anger that most blacks are feeling as a result of this verdict.

 

[Widbil83]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

You people?