Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

This is highly simplistic, not at all accurate, and VERY misleading. It originated in racist revisionist historical arguments which attempt to excuse the African slave trade. It's since worked it's way into some extreme conservative rhetoric.

Interesting...guess you learn something new everyday. On a continent that has 57 countries...of which many are currently experiencing unbelievable genocide, rape and carnage from fellow countrymen...it's unheard of their being any history of slavery within the African culture. Thanks to whitey for bringing such a new concept to their borders. I'll just take your world for it because I really don't want 50 pages of discourse with you about it when it seems like we're actually having a decent discussion here. I concede the point.

Thanks for changing the goalposts. Of course there was slavery in Africa. But to state that the slaves brought over here were already slaves in their own countries is not at all true. Some of them were slaves, yes. Some of them were political prisoners that the kings of western Africa turned over to the slave traders. But most of them were villagers who were kidnapped.

 

[timschochet]

And by the way, the United States and Europe cannot escape at least some responsibility for all that genocide and rape in Africa you're talking about- thanks to our colonialism and support of bad regimes during the cold war.

 

[tdoss]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

I don't disregard your statement though...however, how does most of white America vote for Obama, for two terms...if it's all about race with the white folks?

Hell, there's division WITHIN the black community. How on Earth can the black community work with other races if they can't even work with their own? There's so much damned division...actually calling guys out on whether or not they're black enough (GHill, Bryant Gumble, Wayne Brady and on and on and on)...you've got Crips and Bloods...East Coast vs West Coast rappers (are you kidding me...can you imagine East Coast vs West Coast Country Singers?) look at Chicago and tell me how on Earth are you going to work some of this stuff out with other races when there's so much divide there.

And I'm obviously not saying across the board...nothing in general terms here...just that there appears to be a prevailing attitude within the black community as a whole...and for that, I blame the leadership. I have absolute faith that if MLK were still alive or at least lived another 20 years or so...things would be so much better in the black community (not that there hasn't been tremendous strides...just saying we'd probably be light years ahead by now).

You better believe. The concept of "race" is a social construct. Think about it, there's no biological basis for race. It's all social.

I completely agree, the black community has a TON of issues. But let's not act like we (blacks) were given a fair fight.

Vietnam, The Crack Epidemic, Welfare dependence all happened after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Let's not forget the endless profiling of black males.

Regardless of the issues of the black community, we still have to rely on the justice system. A justice system that has failed us too many times.

Actually...I have to thank you for continuing the conversation...seriously, I was expecting someone to come back blasting and drive this discussion right into the muck.

I don't disagree...I came from a pretty poor upbringing...in my neighborhood of poverty, I was one of the less fortunate among my peers. I fully understand having one foot stuck in mud and the other on solid ground. However, it takes a change of scenery, focus and mindset to get up out of that hole. And that's where the leadership in the black community is failing.

I'll tell you what the problem is coming from the white side of things...most conservatives have the mindset of, "regardless of your upbringing, environment, etc...you are responsible for yourself. You have no one else to blame or depend upon but yourself. If you fail, it's on you."

However, it's easy to take that tack when you don't have a weight on you from birth. But again, you're not going to change a conservative to think anything other than "do for yourself"...and that's regardless of race.

You'e absolutely right about mindset.

A large portion of the black community suffers from what I like to call "generational curses," meaning basically it's hard to overcome certain obstacles that you were born into. For example, my younger cousin just had a baby and she's 15. Guess what? Her mother had her at age 14. You know what else? Her grandmother had her mother at age 16. Get my point? It's extremely difficult to break the cycle when it's been in place for so long. 7 out 10 black children are born out of wedlock. That's a huge issue, right? Well it's not an issue unless the individual thinks it's an issue. And a lot of people see nothing wrong with OOW births. And that's where the issue lies: an entire race of people who celebrate mediocrity and look down on change. Some blacks love the world "sellout" when somebody doesn't live up to stereotypes. I've been accused of "talking white" and being a "preppy college boy" but I don't give a damn. I'm going to make something of myself. I wish more blacks had my mindset.

Exactly...the black community needs another MLK...and they should be tossing Sharpton and Jackson out on their ear.

But it's easier to point fingers at others and say "woa is me"...blame someone else...

I think things are changing for the better (obviously with a black president as an ultimate example) but there's some SERIOUS issues that need to be taken to task. A lot of the issues seems to be from the degradation of the family unit within the black community. Exalting movies and songs that call their mom's and sisters "biitches and hoes" and "we don't love 'em though" (I don't mean that literally...they're not calling their own mom or sister that...I'm saying as a race). Not that black women don't have some fault here as well...they're adapting to the mindset and end up pregnant too young and alone with no husband...only baby daddy's and it's a usually a joke or fully accepted to call someone a damn baby daddy...what the hell? That is ridamndiculous...he's not a baby daddy...he's a damned deadbeat that needs to take his @zz home, take care of his kids and provide for them and show them what it's like to be a father.

I grew up without a father...never met him...I'm no saint and FAR from being a perfect dad...but a lot can be said for "just showing up". Be there, be present and try...damn...as long as you're trying, who can fault you?

But we all have friends like this...dude's who are not taking care of their responsibilities. Guys with multiple women, babies in different houses...and not providing money or time enough for any of them. When your focus is not on your family...then how can the family survive or flourish? You're looking for those strange exceptions to the rule at this point...cause the broken family unit has that extra weight we both have talked about earlier...now add in it being a black, broken family and you've now got even more weight from jumpstreet. But back to my point...we all have these friends and do any of us say anything...or do we accept it? Do we ever call them out on this nonsense? I do...cause again, it's something that's a little bit closer to my heart...and if you don't listen...you don't "try"...then I'll probably just let you go as a friend. I know that sounds jacked up but damned if I need that in my life.

It's all about who you choose to surround yourself with...who do you run with...where's your mindset...what are your interests...etc?

People talking about Vick going to jail for those dogs lately...trying to make it seem unfair. Are you serious? The guy ran with idiots and decided to stay in the lift...even though he was a millionaire (same with Hernandez...although, we have to wait for all the facts of this case to come down)...and what happened? Vick went to jail...said he was sorry and is back to making millions. I'd think he got off pretty lucky. Lucky that his ability and status allowed him to come back and make those dollars. I commend him.

But back to my point above...you've got guys having kids and not treating their women right...and it's not only accepted...it's exalted within the black community. Look at the top artists...from top to bottom there's a lot of questionable guys with serious character issues.

I commend you for doing all you can to succeed...regardless of your upbringing, social status, environment...we need a lot more of that (black, white, whatever) and a lot less acceptance of "thug life".

I think this is a great post by you. I agree with it almost 100%. I'm betting you're a much better dad than you give yourself credit for.

But- at the risk of being called yet again the guy with the most "liberal guilt" here (I hardly think that's true, BTW) neither you nor I nor anyone else here who is not black can have any idea what it's like to be a black person, and specifically we have no idea what it's like to be treated by the police as if we're always under suspicion. That is not an excuse, and it doesn't take away from any of your points. But it IS real, and until you're able to at least empathize with it, I don't think you can appreciate the anger that most blacks are feeling as a result of this verdict.

I definitely empathize...but damned if I'm going to accept someone saying justice was not served here without someone giving me a real alternative to "not guilty" in this case.

It all sucks...and ultimately, none of us know what really happened here...but we can't go vigilante because the rules were followed and the result didn't come up like we wanted.

These celebrity tweets are disgusting and it helps to further ignorance and hate...and should be called out on the carpet for perpetuating this nonsense.

The judicial system did not show any racial bias in this case...except maybe some leaning for the prosecution (so maybe Hispanics have a bit of a gripe)...

Some of this stuff will no doubt cause future juries to worry for their safety...we'll have to hide all juries from now on because of fear of backlash.

Lastly, I feel like there's probably a number of celebrities that feel this was the verdict that should've been reached but no way they feel comfortable tweeting that because of the backlash and being called a racist. So...ultimately, we end up with, what seems like an overwhelming majority of celebrities perpetuating this insanity. Further feeding this machine of hatred and ignorance.

 

[tdoss]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

This is highly simplistic, not at all accurate, and VERY misleading. It originated in racist revisionist historical arguments which attempt to excuse the African slave trade. It's since worked it's way into some extreme conservative rhetoric.

Interesting...guess you learn something new everyday. On a continent that has 57 countries...of which many are currently experiencing unbelievable genocide, rape and carnage from fellow countrymen...it's unheard of their being any history of slavery within the African culture. Thanks to whitey for bringing such a new concept to their borders. I'll just take your world for it because I really don't want 50 pages of discourse with you about it when it seems like we're actually having a decent discussion here. I concede the point.

Thanks for changing the goalposts. Of course there was slavery in Africa. But to state that the slaves brought over here were already slaves in their own countries is not at all true. Some of them were slaves, yes. Some of them were political prisoners that the kings of western Africa turned over to the slave traders. But most of them were villagers who were kidnapped.

Wasn't my intention to say all...I'll let you start a thread on debating what percentage where enslaved beforehand. Doesn't change the damn point...he contended that whites created division and cited slavery as one of his examples. I wanted it on record that some of those who were brought over for the slave trade...were already slaves in their homeland. How did whites create that divide on the African continent...it was already there. Pretty much every part of our world has had some form of slavery at some point in their history. I really don't think whites can take credit for it's creation all across the globe. But again...you're attempting to pull us off track with your usual BS, Tim. You seem to lack the ability to focus on one discussion at a time...you treat every thread like it's some sort of mission of your to pull in whatever direction you feel will distract the most. I conceded the point...let's move on.

 

[tdoss]

And by the way, the United States and Europe cannot escape at least some responsibility for all that genocide and rape in Africa you're talking about- thanks to our colonialism and support of bad regimes during the cold war.

Another thread, Tim...start it up.

I'm not arguing with you...you have merit in some things you say...it just doesn't need to go on and on here...focus Timmy-san.

 

[Raider Nation]

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Protesters-Shut-Down-10-Freeway-215462921.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_LABrand

 

[tdoss]

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Protesters-Shut-Down-10-Freeway-215462921.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_LABrand

Thankfully it's peaceful and looks to be a bunch of different races.

That freeway blockage shouldn't be heralded though...I don't think that's ok.

And seriously...why does so many have to be throwing up gang signs in the coverage I'm seeing. I don't understand how an individual can go out for this protest and then throw gang signs to the camera...how does an individual make those two connections without any internal conflict?

On a sidenote...if it does jump off...how am I going to get a couch from Hollywood to just north of SD with the cops shutting down the roads in Hollywood.

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

I'm guessing this has been discussed but what was up with state attorney Angela Corey after the verdict. A teen is dead and you just got your ### handed to you in the biggest case you'll ever be involved in your life and she's acting happy and jolly at the press conference. She was like "we did the best we could.....oh well". In contrast, the two prosecutors standing at her side looked like they were ready to off themselves......

 

[jon_mx]

Let's make George Zimmerman our whipping boy for the past sins of this country. The black country is doomed as long as this is the predominant mindset. The biggest obsticles blacks face today is themselves.

 

[jon_mx]

I'm guessing this has been discussed but what was up with state attorney Angela Corey after the verdict. A teen is dead and you just got your ### handed to you in the biggest case you'll ever be involved in your life and she's acting happy and jolly at the press conference. She was like "we did the best we could.....oh well". In contrast, the two prosecutors standing at her side looked like they were ready to off themselves......

She's a politician who knew the whole trial was just a show for the inevitable outcome. The trial lawyers put their heart into it. Despite the criticism, they did as well as anyone could have.

 

[jon_mx]

"He has always feared for his safety, and we have always feared for his safety and our safety as a family," Robert Zimmerman, Jr., Zimmerman's brother, told CNN. "Clearly, he is a free man in the eyes of the court, but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life."

 

[Rayderr]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

I don't know about that last statement...hell, the slaves that were brought to America were...yep, slaves in their homeland being sold to the Europeans and Americans for the most part.

This is highly simplistic, not at all accurate, and VERY misleading. It originated in racist revisionist historical arguments which attempt to excuse the African slave trade. It's since worked it's way into some extreme conservative rhetoric.

Interesting...guess you learn something new everyday. On a continent that has 57 countries...of which many are currently experiencing unbelievable genocide, rape and carnage from fellow countrymen...it's unheard of their being any history of slavery within the African culture. Thanks to whitey for bringing such a new concept to their borders. I'll just take your world for it because I really don't want 50 pages of discourse with you about it when it seems like we're actually having a decent discussion here. I concede the point.

Thanks for changing the goalposts. Of course there was slavery in Africa. But to state that the slaves brought over here were already slaves in their own countries is not at all true. Some of them were slaves, yes. Some of them were political prisoners that the kings of western Africa turned over to the slave traders. But most of them were villagers who were kidnapped.

You're the one who changed the topic from Trayvon Martin to Slavery.

 

[jon_mx]

Is Gachi a Tim alias?

 

[Shawnky]

"He has always feared for his safety, and we have always feared for his safety and our safety as a family," Robert Zimmerman, Jr., Zimmerman's brother, told CNN. "Clearly, he is a free man in the eyes of the court, but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life."

Boo hoo

 

[jon_mx]

"He has always feared for his safety, and we have always feared for his safety and our safety as a family," Robert Zimmerman, Jr., Zimmerman's brother, told CNN. "Clearly, he is a free man in the eyes of the court, but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life."

Boo hoo

I understand it, but it is far from classy.

 

[The Kerminator]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

When presented a list of evidence and facts you responded with "yawn"

And we're the ones that are delusional? You're the one choosing to ignore the evidence because it doesn't fit nicely into your agenda.

 

[Rayderr]

"He has always feared for his safety, and we have always feared for his safety and our safety as a family," Robert Zimmerman, Jr., Zimmerman's brother, told CNN. "Clearly, he is a free man in the eyes of the court, but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life."

Boo hoo

So you're fine with vigilante justice?

 

[cstu]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

How can you honestly claim Trayvon's actions played no part in his death? Had he simply walked home and not turned around and confronted GZ he'd still be alive today. Had he not got into a fight with GZ he'd still be alive today. Had he not jumped on top of GZ and started hitting him he'd still be alive today.

GZ may be a POS wannabe cop but by the legal definition he's innocent. People defending Trayvon need to recognize that actions have consequences and he did make mistakes that led to his death.

 

[jon_mx]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

How can you honestly claim Trayvon's actions played no part in his death? Had he simply walked home and not turned around and confronted GZ he'd still be alive today. Had he not got into a fight with GZ he'd still be alive today. Had he not jumped on top of GZ and started hitting him he'd still be alive today.

GZ may be a POS wannabe cop but by the legal definition he's innocent. People defending Trayvon need to recognize that actions have consequences and he did make mistakes that led to his death.

And if Martin would have stopped beating Zimmerman with Jon arrived and asked him to stop, it would have ended peacefully. Martin probably would have been arrested for assault, but he would be alive.

 

[Shawnky]

"He has always feared for his safety, and we have always feared for his safety and our safety as a family," Robert Zimmerman, Jr., Zimmerman's brother, told CNN. "Clearly, he is a free man in the eyes of the court, but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life."

Boo hoo

So you're fine with vigilante justice?

No, but in no way do I feel sorry for him.

 

[Shawnky]

"He has always feared for his safety, and we have always feared for his safety and our safety as a family," Robert Zimmerman, Jr., Zimmerman's brother, told CNN. "Clearly, he is a free man in the eyes of the court, but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life."

Boo hoo

I understand it, but it is far from classy.

Huh?

 

[cstu]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

Even though white people came up with the actual term 'race' there have been tribes in Africa (and the world) that have considered themselves separate from other groups. We know know that 'race' doesn't actually exist yet people everywhere still try to find a way to distinguish their group from others.

 

[jon_mx]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

Even though white people came up with the actual term 'race' there have been tribes in Africa (and the world) that have considered themselves separate from other groups. We know know that 'race' doesn't actually exist yet people everywhere still try to find a way to distinguish their group from others.

Yes, before white people, no one understood there were differences amoung people. Damn those white people.

 

[renesauz]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

It is very alarming.

 

[renesauz]

It's just so sickening.

Her murdered a teen in cold blood and he just walks free.

Because of him Trayvon's parents will carry this pain to their graves. Their son is dead. If anybody here has lost a child you know the pain never goes away.

Just doesn't seem right.

It isn't right. Martin didn't deserve to die.

Unfortunately, Zimmerman didn't deserve to go to prison for Martin's death either. Maybe the parents should have taught their son to not steal, do drugs, or brag on twitter about getting in fistfights on the street. Oh...and not to get in a fight with a "weird $#%$&@ cracker" he thinks might be following him either.

I heard that testimony (from the GF on the phone) again today and I just can't help but shake my head over how nobody seems to recognize how incredibly racist TM must have been to so easily, in so derogatory a fashion, use "cracker".

Yeah...I feel bad for TMs parents, but maybe they should have done a better job.

I didn't follow the case, but him smoking weed and stealing is irrelevant. Surely that doesn't warrant him being murdered?

I just know the basics. He was on his way back from the store when an overzealous neighborhood watch volunteer got into an altercation with him (despite being told my the dispatcher to NOT follow him) and shot him dead.

And you can save the "racist language" mess. You really can. This entire board admitted to using the "n-word" damn near.

It isn't the weed and the stealing. It's the bragging about street fighting. It's the subculture he embraced (gang signs on his facebook page) that in turn tends to embrace violence. It's the fact that all the evidence and the testimony backs up GZs story of self defense.

Had GZ not had a gun, this kid would have continued to pound him until he was unconscious or possibly even dead, because that is the culture he embraced. Would GZ have deserved to die for following a stranger in his neighborhood? GZ was an idiot, but he wouldn't have deserved to die either.

TM did NOT deserve to die, but many people die every day from stupid decisions (speeding, DUI, etc.) TM made a stupid decision. He decided to turn around and get in a fistfight with the wrong ^#%@^& "cracker" when he could have called the police or simply gone home like most semi-intelligent non-violent human beings would have done.

GZ made a lot of mistakes that night, but not one of them equates to murder.

 

[renesauz]

*yawn*

A bunch of nothing.

Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wear your hoodie with pride, G, keep that #### real.

What's that supposed to mean?

Oh wait, all black men are thugs right? All black men are gangstas and are in gangs? All black men "keep it real?"

Whites are some funny people. They make outlandish comments like the one above, and claim to not be racist.

Funny. I read your comments, the complete lack of any semblance of logic, and can only conclude that you're acting on emotion simply because you are black.

 

[Todd Andrews]

This is a racial OUTRAEG!!1!

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

Any "division" in this country is because of whites.

Are you forgetting slavery, Jim Crow, KKK, etc?

It was actually white people who came up with the concept of "race."

stay classy

and ignorant too. What a piece of work.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

Step one. If you want people to think you're educated then don't have such strong absolute opinions on something that you admit you didn't even follow. Based on reading your posts in this thread I would come to the conclusion that you are a pretty racist person yourself.

 

[ArbyMelt]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

Step one. If you want people to think you're educated then don't have such strong absolute opinions on something that you admit you didn't even follow. Based on reading your posts in this thread I would come to the conclusion that you are a pretty racist person yourself.

The delusional one is the one who hasn't followed the case and doesn't know the facts.

 

[Spanky267]

In the end this whole thing is a tragedy. Two people crossed paths on that rainy February evening. They both made huge and ultimately incorrect conclusions about each other. Some sort of altercation ensued and everything changed in an instance. A family grieves for the son they lost and a man has to live for the rest of his life with the knowledge that he took a life in the defense of his own.

They both made epic lapses in judgement that led us to where we are today. But this wasnt murder.

I pray for healing for both families and for our nation.

 

[Rayderr]

This is a racial OUTRAEG!!1!

Instead of trying to calm the unarmed teenagers, or simply locking his doors and waiting for the police, Mr. White grabbed an unlicensed pistol and stormed out of his house to confront the teenagers, Mr. Chalifoux said.

The prosecutor acknowledged that the teenagers used epithets, but called Mr. White and his lawyers disingenuous in invoking a racial defense, noting that they missed few chances to embellish testimony with inflammatory references, and he said they used the “lynch mob” strategy to distract the jury from the charges.

He cited trial testimony that indicated that Mr. White fanned the gun menacingly at each teenager and that Daniel did not lunge, but rather defiantly slapped the gun away, with Mr. White retraining it on him, then shooting him point-blank in the face.

Let's see if we can spot differences in the case beyond race.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

So it's Trayvon's fault he was murdered?

Ok I'm done with this thread.

You people are delusional.

This is the problem with America's youth.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

It is very alarming.

yes if you had grown up black, you would perceive these events very differently. If you had been followed before by someone who was suspicious of you because you were black and nothing else, you would perceive these events very differently.

Be thankful that the reaction in the black community is so foreign to you that you do not understand how someone could react that way. That means you're privileged in this culture.

 

[jon_mx]

It actually kinda scares me that people can look at this case...see all the evidence and STILL feel like those celebrity tweets.

Damn...I really wonder if I were black or a celebrity...would I see this completely differently? Would I honestly be able to look past the evidence and feel so confident in thinking that Zimmerman should've been found guilty?

I mean, geez...even Tim (the most white-guilt ridden, liberal minded person on this board) was able to say that he'd find Zim not guilty.

There's some serious detachment and division in our nation and it's really concerning.

I remember when the OJ verdict came in...the manager of our department jumped up and cheered...actually did a little dance and clapped as loudly as he could throughout the department. Yes...he was black...most of us stood there looking at him with a quizzical look of "What the hell?"

It is very alarming.

yes if you had grown up black, you would perceive these events very differently. If you had been followed before by someone who was suspicious of you because you were black and nothing else, you would perceive these events very differently.

Be thankful that the reaction in the black community is so foreign to you that you do not understand how someone could react that way. That means you're privileged in this culture.

Anyone would be annoyed by someone following/watching them, but it is called a neighborhood watch for a reason. It had to do with a stranger wandering around suspeciously then it did skin color. Anyone who thinks it has to do with skin color must be a mind reader, but Zimmerman never made it a point.

 

[renesauz]

In the end this whole thing is a tragedy. Two people crossed paths on that rainy February evening. They both made huge and ultimately incorrect conclusions about each other. Some sort of altercation ensued and everything changed in an instance. A family grieves for the son they lost and a man has to live for the rest of his life with the knowledge that he took a life in the defense of his own.

They both made epic lapses in judgement that led us to where we are today. But this wasnt murder.

I pray for healing for both families and for our nation.

Well said

 

[Arizona Ron]

This is a racial OUTRAEG!!1!

Instead of trying to calm the unarmed teenagers, or simply locking his doors and waiting for the police, Mr. White grabbed an unlicensed pistol and stormed out of his house to confront the teenagers, Mr. Chalifoux said.

The prosecutor acknowledged that the teenagers used epithets, but called Mr. White and his lawyers disingenuous in invoking a racial defense, noting that they missed few chances to embellish testimony with inflammatory references, and he said they used the “lynch mob” strategy to distract the jury from the charges.

He cited trial testimony that indicated that Mr. White fanned the gun menacingly at each teenager and that Daniel did not lunge, but rather defiantly slapped the gun away, with Mr. White retraining it on him, then shooting him point-blank in the face.

Let's see if we can spot differences in the case beyond race.

I saw no mention of Skittles

 

[Arizona Ron]

In the end this whole thing is a tragedy. Two people crossed paths on that rainy February evening. They both made huge and ultimately incorrect conclusions about each other. Some sort of altercation ensued and everything changed in an instance. A family grieves for the son they lost and a man has to live for the rest of his life with the knowledge that he took a life in the defense of his own.

They both made epic lapses in judgement that led us to where we are today. But this wasnt murder.

I pray for healing for both families and for our nation.

Well said

What "epic lapse in judgment" did Martin make?

 

[ArbyMelt]

In the end this whole thing is a tragedy. Two people crossed paths on that rainy February evening. They both made huge and ultimately incorrect conclusions about each other. Some sort of altercation ensued and everything changed in an instance. A family grieves for the son they lost and a man has to live for the rest of his life with the knowledge that he took a life in the defense of his own.

They both made epic lapses in judgement that led us to where we are today. But this wasnt murder.

I pray for healing for both families and for our nation.

Well said

What "epic lapse in judgment" did Martin make?

Remember the 4 minutes of silence during O'Mara's closing, it may have won the case for him. He was 100 yards from "home". What did he do? Better yet, what did he not do?

 

[cstu]

In the end this whole thing is a tragedy. Two people crossed paths on that rainy February evening. They both made huge and ultimately incorrect conclusions about each other. Some sort of altercation ensued and everything changed in an instance. A family grieves for the son they lost and a man has to live for the rest of his life with the knowledge that he took a life in the defense of his own.

They both made epic lapses in judgement that led us to where we are today. But this wasnt murder.

I pray for healing for both families and for our nation.

Well said

What "epic lapse in judgment" did Martin make?

Turning around to confront a stranger following him instead of going inside his house to enjoy his Skittles and tea.

 

[parasaurolophus]

If Martin was 25 and weighed the same how different would this case have been viewed?

If the cops had got there right as GZ was about to shoot and stopped it, what would Martin have been charged with?

If GZ was actually white instead of "more or less white" would media coverage have been different?

What do people that want "Justice for trayvon" actually think is justice in this case?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

What do people that want "Justice for trayvon" actually think is justice in this case?

Young black men no longer being considered "suspicious" in our society simply because they are young black men.

 

[Rayderr]

If Martin was 25 and weighed the same how different would this case have been viewed?

If the cops had got there right as GZ was about to shoot and stopped it, what would Martin have been charged with?

If GZ was actually white instead of "more or less white" would media coverage have been different?

What do people that want "Justice for trayvon" actually think is justice in this case?

Well, the media probably wouldn't have shown pictures of Trayvon at 10 years old.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

In the end this whole thing is a tragedy. Two people crossed paths on that rainy February evening. They both made huge and ultimately incorrect conclusions about each other. Some sort of altercation ensued and everything changed in an instance. A family grieves for the son they lost and a man has to live for the rest of his life with the knowledge that he took a life in the defense of his own.

They both made epic lapses in judgement that led us to where we are today. But this wasnt murder.

I pray for healing for both families and for our nation.

Well said

What "epic lapse in judgment" did Martin make?

Not one epic lapse in judgment, more like 5 - if he makes the RIGHT decision in any of the 5 he chose below, he'd still be alive today.

He should have ignored Zimmerman, if he was worried about his safety he should have knocked on doors or called 911, evidence shows he was not worried about his safety by his actions.

He should have walked home over the 4 minutes he had based on the evidence, he only had 70 yards to walk home.

When Zimmerman screamed for help the first time he should have seen that as an admission by Zimmerman that he did not want to fight and he should have stopped his assault.

When John Good came out of his house and yelled at him to stop and that he was calling 911, he should have stopped instead of continuing to beat on Zimmerman.

When the SECOND neighbor came out and told them to stop, he should have stopped.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

If GZ was actually white instead of "more or less white" would media coverage have been different?

No, because it was his attitude to assume a young black man in his neighborhood was suspicious that kicked this case into the realm of "how race matters in America in 2013". It is his reason for noticing Martin in the first place, not his skin color/heritage that made this into such a controversial case.

 

[cstu]

If Martin was 25 and weighed the same how different would this case have been viewed?

If the cops had got there right as GZ was about to shoot and stopped it, what would Martin have been charged with?

If GZ was actually white instead of "more or less white" would media coverage have been different?

What do people that want "Justice for trayvon" actually think is justice in this case?

There are a lot of people who think any time an unarmed black person is killed by a non-white person it's because of racism. In this case people are ignoring every piece of evidence to hold onto that belief.

What drives me crazy is that there are actual cases of murder due to racism (Jordan Davis) yet this case which has little to do with race (other than profiling, which IMO was justified) is the one getting all the attention. Making such an uproar over Trayvon is actually a setback for people trying to expose racism in America.

 

[johnnycakes]

Feds Weigh Charging Zimmerman in Killing

SANFORD, Fla.—The Justice Department said Sunday it would weigh whether to file federal criminal charges against George Zimmerman after his acquittal in a shooting that set off a searing national debate over racial justice and self-defense laws.

Its statement came as groups including the NAACP and the American Civil Liberties Union urged U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to open a federal civil-rights case against Mr. Zimmerman, the former neighborhood-watch captain who shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

"Experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation" of civil-rights laws, a department spokeswoman said in a statement. The department has had an open investigation into the death of Mr. Martin since last year.

Mr. Holder plans to address the Zimmerman case Tuesday when he speaks to the NAACP in Orlando, according to an official familiar with his plans.

Mr. Zimmerman, a 29-year-old Hispanic, faced second-degree murder and manslaughter charges for shooting Mr. Martin, a 17-year-old African-American, in a gated community here in February 2012. Prosecutors argued that Mr. Zimmerman profiled the teen as a criminal, pursued him and provoked the deadly confrontation. Defense lawyers said Mr. Zimmerman was attacked by Mr. Martin and fired at him in self-defense.

The initial six-week delay in arresting Mr. Zimmerman triggered nationwide protests and accusations of racial injustice.

The NAACP and other groups blasted Saturday's not-guilty verdict as a miscarriage of justice.

"Those of us who are fathers, particularly of African-American boys, find it shockingly frightening," said Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACP's Washington bureau. The message, he said, is, "Not only can we do this, we can get away with it."

Yet legal experts question whether such a case will be filed, given the high burden of proof prosecutors would face. They would likely have to show Mr. Zimmerman was motivated by racial hatred when he shot Mr. Martin, said Paul Callan, an attorney at Callan, Koster, Brady & Brennan LLP in New York.

"I think you could make out the case that unconscious racism caused Mr. Zimmerman to profile" Mr. Martin, said Kenneth Nunn, assistant director of the Criminal Justice Center at the University of Florida's Levin College of Law. "But there doesn't seem to be enough there to justify a claim that racial animus was the predicate behind Trayvon Martin's death."

Attorneys for Mr. Martin's family said they are considering filing a civil lawsuit against Mr. Zimmerman, though they haven't made a decision. "We're still trying to make sense of the verdict in the criminal case," said Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for the family. "We'll be talking about our options going forward in the coming days."

Such a case would face high hurdles, legal observers say. Mr. Zimmerman can seek immunity from civil lawsuits under Florida's so-called Stand Your Ground law—something his attorney said he planned to do. "In effect, there will be no civil suits," said Tamara Lave, a University of Miami law professor. "If there is a civil suit filed, it will be dismissed, and future ones will be barred."

In the verdict's aftermath, protests erupted in cities across the country, from San Francisco to Sanford. Nearly all were peaceful, though a demonstration in Oakland resulted in some vandalism, according to a spokesman for the city's police department.

President Barack Obama on Sunday said "a jury has spoken" and asked the public to respect the Martin family's "call for calm reflection." He added, "I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher."

The buildup to Mr. Zimmerman's murder trial featured extensive commentary about the roles that race and Florida's controversial 2005 Stand Your Ground law played in the case. In the end, however, neither figured much in the courtroom battle.

Mr. Zimmerman's attorneys prevailed without relying on the provisions of the "Stand Your Ground" gun-rights law, which eliminates the duty for a person to retreat in the face of danger before using lethal force. Under the measure, they had the option of seeking a court ruling, before any trial, that Mr. Zimmerman acted legally. But instead, his lawyers mounted a traditional self-defense case—one that legal analysts say benefited from missteps by police and the prosecution.

Police investigators made mistakes including failing to preserve the crime scene or to widely canvass the neighborhood to interview witnesses in timely fashion, Ms. Lave said. Prosecutors were left "working with one hand tied behind their back," she said.

A Sanford Police Department spokesman declined to comment. Former Sanford police chief Bill Lee, who was forced out amid the furor over Mr. Martin's case, has previously defended the integrity of the officers' investigation and said the department lacked probable cause to arrest Mr. Zimmerman.

Prosecutors made missteps as well, Ms. Lave said. Among them: introducing Mr. Zimmerman's statements to police into evidence. Their aim was to point out inconsistencies in his accounts. But the move allowed Mr. Zimmerman's lawyers to avoid calling him to the stand and subjecting him to cross-examination.

At a news conference Saturday night, state attorney Angela Corey defended her office's handling of the case. She said the case presented several challenges, including that the fatal encounter occurred in a public space, where both individuals had a right to be, rather than a dwelling.

The issue of race, which infused so much of the public debate over the case, rarely entered the courtroom discussion. Circuit Judge Debra Nelson barred prosecutors from saying Mr. Zimmerman racially profiled Mr. Martin. The topic mostly remained unspoken, such as when jurors heard phone calls Mr. Zimmerman placed to police to report suspicious people, all of whom were black.

Yet race could have been a factor in the jury's verdict, Ms. Lave said. The six female jurors were all white, except one who was Hispanic. "You want to have people of color on your jury because sometimes their experience with police is something that white people don't have," she said.

 

[cstu]

What do people that want "Justice for trayvon" actually think is justice in this case?

Young black men no longer being considered "suspicious" in our society simply because they are young black men.

Not even if break ins in the neighborhood have all been by young black men?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

What do people that want "Justice for trayvon" actually think is justice in this case?

Young black men no longer being considered "suspicious" in our society simply because they are young black men.

I like the thought but dont see that as something that will happen...ever.

I'm sure Middle-Eastern people would love to get on a plane without being considered suspicious as well lol

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

What do people that want "Justice for trayvon" actually think is justice in this case?

Young black men no longer being considered "suspicious" in our society simply because they are young black men.

Not even if break ins in the neighborhood have all been by young black men?

So its ok to hassle to members of a group because of actions of other members of that group?