Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (6 Viewers)

[roadkill1292]

Really confused why there would even be a neighborhood watch in a place like this anyways. Isn't the point of the gate to keep people out?

Besides, black people were already living inside the gates.

 

[Slapdash]

NEWSFLASH: A black kid walking home does not require any action, especially calling 911.

Walking while black in a gated community in Sanford, Florida is downright suspicious.

Only because I love to take a devil's advocate position, there is nothing to say that the kid was just walking home. Perhaps he was walking by a town house and saw some young lady changing in a window so went closer to take a peak. Anything could have happened to warrant Zimmerman considering it suspicious activity. I don't believe that this was the case, but I don't rule it out either.

Sure. We'll never get the real story because the only person alive to tell it has no incentive to. I don't see how the situation you descirbe would warrant calling the police and then confronting the kid with a gun. I can't really think of any situation that would.

 

[jamny]

Really confused why there would even be a neighborhood watch in a place like this anyways. Isn't the point of the gate to keep people out?

and do they have stores inside gated communities? I thought they were just houses.

 

[renesauz]

What no one is acknowledging is that it was the older, outsized armed man who created a confrontation by calling 911 and then by somehow engaging with the boy. To me, whether or not Zimmerman intended to kill the boy is not information that is needed to make an arrest. You make an arrest because he started #### with someone when he didn't need to and somehow the person he started #### with got killed.Then again, I'm not a lawyer so I'm sure I have that wrong.

To arrest someone you have to actually charge them with something, and there has to be enough evidance for a judge to sign off on it. Unless they expect the suspect to run, there is no reason to place him in custody (which they could only do for a limited amount of time before pressing charges anyway) before fully investigating the facts. Generally, the charges are determined BEFORE the arrest, not after...and the charges here could range anywhere from assault to murder.Just because someone isn't arrested and charged within 24 hours of an incident doesn't mean they are being given a pass or some special favor.

 

[Topes]

Maybe, maybe not. He's walking right now because he has no record, and has been cooperating. He didn't try to run or hide, and there's no reason to expect him to. I would still expect some sort of charges.

Not run or hide, but he's apparently already moved.Zimmerman is no longer living in the gated community.

 

[Christo]

Most likely senerio seems to be watch guy see black youth walking around gated community and tries to detain said youth. Youth sees watch guy with gun and tries to get away. Struggle ensues. Watch guy is getting beat up. Watch guy shoot youth. Watch guy should go to slammer, but won't, because it's his word against dead kid.

More like this. White Dude: Hey N..... what are you doing here. Black Kid: going to my dad's what is it to you cracker. White Dude: no way we don't allow your type in a gated community. Black Kid: get out of the way you crazy old F... /pushes past white dude. White Dude: not on my watch...blam...blam...blam.

Must have been one hell of a push. "When police arrived and found the body, they also found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and back of his head, according to the report. Also, the back of his shirt was wet and had grass clippings on it, as if he'd been on his back on the ground."

I think it's clear the guy got out of his car despite being told to wait for police. He confronted the youth in some way. Probably pulled the gun and the kid thought he was in danger of his life. A struggle ensues. Neighborhood watch guy fires multiple shots into an unarmed 17 year old. The only question is should there be charges. It seems unlikely he will be able to say it was a response to equal force. The kid had Skittles, he had a gun. Seems unlikely there is a good case for self defense unless he can prove the kid dragged him out of the car. Seems to me watch guy should face charges of some sort.

You went form clear to probably. It's no less probable that the gun wasn't drawn until after the fight started. The kid could have just been pissed that this guy stopped him and it had nothing to do with the kid being scared.

 

[Clifford]

NEWSFLASH: A black kid walking home does not require any action, especially calling 911.

Walking while black in a gated community in Sanford, Florida is downright suspicious.

Only because I love to take a devil's advocate position, there is nothing to say that the kid was just walking home. Perhaps he was walking by a town house and saw some young lady changing in a window so went closer to take a peak. Anything could have happened to warrant Zimmerman considering it suspicious activity. I don't believe that this was the case, but I don't rule it out either.

Sure. We'll never get the real story because the only person alive to tell it has no incentive to. I don't see how the situation you descirbe would warrant calling the police and then confronting the kid with a gun. I can't really think of any situation that would.

Now suppose this young fella whistled at a white woman...Just wondering: what is the point of coming up with all this imaginary scenarios where the kid would have done something that actually did warrant suspicion? Just because we don't know 100% that he didn't, even though from everything released the worst thing this kid did was ask why he was being followed?

And I'm sorry, self-defense?

http://www.bet.com/content/betcom/news/national/2012/03/09/why-was-trayvon-martin-killed/_jcr_content/featuredMedia/newsitemimage.newsimage.dimg/030912-national-trayvon-martin-shooting-death.jpg

From this kid? Sorry, I do not buy for a second that he had any valid reason to be afraid for his life.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Maybe, maybe not. He's walking right now because he has no record, and has been cooperating. He didn't try to run or hide, and there's no reason to expect him to. I would still expect some sort of charges.

Not run or hide, but he's apparently already moved.Zimmerman is no longer living in the gated community.

Of course not. It's not safe, someone got shot there.

 

[NCCommish]

Most likely senerio seems to be watch guy see black youth walking around gated community and tries to detain said youth. Youth sees watch guy with gun and tries to get away. Struggle ensues. Watch guy is getting beat up. Watch guy shoot youth. Watch guy should go to slammer, but won't, because it's his word against dead kid.

More like this. White Dude: Hey N..... what are you doing here. Black Kid: going to my dad's what is it to you cracker. White Dude: no way we don't allow your type in a gated community. Black Kid: get out of the way you crazy old F... /pushes past white dude. White Dude: not on my watch...blam...blam...blam.

Must have been one hell of a push. "When police arrived and found the body, they also found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and back of his head, according to the report. Also, the back of his shirt was wet and had grass clippings on it, as if he'd been on his back on the ground."

I think it's clear the guy got out of his car despite being told to wait for police. He confronted the youth in some way. Probably pulled the gun and the kid thought he was in danger of his life. A struggle ensues. Neighborhood watch guy fires multiple shots into an unarmed 17 year old. The only question is should there be charges. It seems unlikely he will be able to say it was a response to equal force. The kid had Skittles, he had a gun. Seems unlikely there is a good case for self defense unless he can prove the kid dragged him out of the car. Seems to me watch guy should face charges of some sort.

You went form clear to probably. It's no less probable that the gun wasn't drawn until after the fight started. The kid could have just been pissed that this guy stopped him and it had nothing to do with the kid being scared.

Should have read further really. But it is clear he got out of his car while it's likely/probable he pulled the gun. You can't get grass stains on your shirt in a car. It seems likely or probable he pulled the gun inciting some kind of dustup.

 

[Christo]

When police arrived and found the body, they also found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and back of his head, according to the report. Also, the back of his shirt was wet and had grass clippings on it, as if he'd been on his back on the ground.

See, this is gonna sound a bit but I hold these facts as a bit suspect.That is, though I don't necessarily believe it to eb the case, I would not be surprised if the cops helped Zimmerman out a bit by bloodying him up.

Is it likely? No.

If it were to be revealed at some later date that this happened, however, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I generally don't trust cops, especially when it comes to what they might do to cover for themselves and their friends.

"At that point, Mr. Zimmerman was taken into custody, investigative detention if you will, and got to the station to conduct an interview with him to find out exactly what happened," Sanford police spokesman Sgt. David Zimmerman said.

Any relation?

HFS

 

[Clinton]

Where is Clinton? I think he should come in here and shed some light on this situation.

Here I am!!! I really have nothing to add without the full facts that the police are now investigating. If the evidence supports that the shooter murdered the kid, I hope the shooter gets the chair. If the shooter is acquitted based on self defense, my heart still goes out for the kid's family and I'll wonder if the Patrol Guy could have handled the situation better from the get go. Sad story when life passes so young.

 

[Topes]

Just dug up another earlier article, with a lot more detail from a purported witness:

Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

Updated: Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 7:18 PM EST

Published : Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 4:55 PM EST

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Investigators with the Sanford Police Department are still trying to figure out exactly what happened during an altercation which resulted in a fatal shooting in the Twin Lakes area. The shooting happened just after 7 p.m. Sunday evening on Twin Trees Lane. A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

Police said the shooter, identified as 25-year-old George Zimmerman, surrendered immediately. He has been questioned, but no charges have been levied and no arrest made.

Neighbors tell us that the shooter patrols the community at night and is a member of the Neighorhood Watch committee; however, police are not commenting.

 

[Christo]

Most likely senerio seems to be watch guy see black youth walking around gated community and tries to detain said youth. Youth sees watch guy with gun and tries to get away. Struggle ensues. Watch guy is getting beat up. Watch guy shoot youth. Watch guy should go to slammer, but won't, because it's his word against dead kid.

More like this. White Dude: Hey N..... what are you doing here. Black Kid: going to my dad's what is it to you cracker. White Dude: no way we don't allow your type in a gated community. Black Kid: get out of the way you crazy old F... /pushes past white dude. White Dude: not on my watch...blam...blam...blam.

Must have been one hell of a push. "When police arrived and found the body, they also found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and back of his head, according to the report. Also, the back of his shirt was wet and had grass clippings on it, as if he'd been on his back on the ground."

I think it's clear the guy got out of his car despite being told to wait for police. He confronted the youth in some way. Probably pulled the gun and the kid thought he was in danger of his life. A struggle ensues. Neighborhood watch guy fires multiple shots into an unarmed 17 year old. The only question is should there be charges. It seems unlikely he will be able to say it was a response to equal force. The kid had Skittles, he had a gun. Seems unlikely there is a good case for self defense unless he can prove the kid dragged him out of the car. Seems to me watch guy should face charges of some sort.

You went form clear to probably. It's no less probable that the gun wasn't drawn until after the fight started. The kid could have just been pissed that this guy stopped him and it had nothing to do with the kid being scared.

Should have read further really. But it is clear he got out of his car while it's likely/probable he pulled the gun. You can't get grass stains on your shirt in a car. It seems likely or probable he pulled the gun inciting some kind of dustup.

Clearly, he got out of the car voluntarily. And this was clearly done despite him being told by 911 not to do it. But after that, the "clearlies" and "probablies" are more like pure guesswork.

 

[renesauz]

Maybe, maybe not. He's walking right now because he has no record, and has been cooperating. He didn't try to run or hide, and there's no reason to expect him to. I would still expect some sort of charges.

Not run or hide, but he's apparently already moved.Zimmerman is no longer living in the gated community.

I wouldn't expect him to be staying anywhere the public could find him either. Somne hot head (Clifford?) might come gunning for him. As long as the police are kept aprised of his location, I wouldn't read anything into this.

 

[jamny]

Most likely senerio seems to be watch guy see black youth walking around gated community and tries to detain said youth. Youth sees watch guy with gun and tries to get away. Struggle ensues. Watch guy is getting beat up. Watch guy shoot youth. Watch guy should go to slammer, but won't, because it's his word against dead kid.

More like this. White Dude: Hey N..... what are you doing here. Black Kid: going to my dad's what is it to you cracker. White Dude: no way we don't allow your type in a gated community. Black Kid: get out of the way you crazy old F... /pushes past white dude. White Dude: not on my watch...blam...blam...blam.

Must have been one hell of a push. "When police arrived and found the body, they also found Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and back of his head, according to the report. Also, the back of his shirt was wet and had grass clippings on it, as if he'd been on his back on the ground."

I think it's clear the guy got out of his car despite being told to wait for police. He confronted the youth in some way. Probably pulled the gun and the kid thought he was in danger of his life. A struggle ensues. Neighborhood watch guy fires multiple shots into an unarmed 17 year old. The only question is should there be charges. It seems unlikely he will be able to say it was a response to equal force. The kid had Skittles, he had a gun. Seems unlikely there is a good case for self defense unless he can prove the kid dragged him out of the car. Seems to me watch guy should face charges of some sort.

You went form clear to probably. It's no less probable that the gun wasn't drawn until after the fight started. The kid could have just been pissed that this guy stopped him and it had nothing to do with the kid being scared.

Should have read further really. But it is clear he got out of his car while it's likely/probable he pulled the gun. You can't get grass stains on your shirt in a car. It seems likely or probable he pulled the gun inciting some kind of dustup.

Couldn't he have pulled the gun after he got his ### beaten? Maybe as he was being beaten, the kid pulled the gun from Zimmerman and it went off during a struggle. So many things could have happened but it's nice that everyone's minds are already made up.

 

[Slapdash]

Hmm. Through the whole thread, I'd pictured the shooting to have happened on or next to a sidewalk.

The thought had occurred to me that there might have been a chase.

The accounts presented suggest that the Volunteer Cop saw the kid walking on a sidewalk from his car.

(What seems to be) an early report on the shooting says the body was found behind a building. It also states there was an arrest, rather than just a questioning.

Sanford Police Investigate Fatal Shooting

Police Arrest Suspect In Attack

POSTED: 8:32 pm EST February 26, 2012

UPDATED: 10:34 pm EST February 26, 2012

SANFORD, Fla. -- Sanford police said they arrested a suspect in a fatal shooting at the Twin Lake Town Homes Sunday evening.

About 7:15 p.m., police said they received a 911 call of shots fired at 1231 Twin Trees Lane. When officers arrived about a minute later, they found a male victim behind a building.

Paramedics pronounced the man dead at the scene.

Sanford Police Department Sgt. Dave Morgenstern said the suspect surrendered without incident. Detectives are interviewing witnesses and the suspect to determine what led to the argument and shooting.

Police had not released names of anyone involved as of Sunday night.

I am not certain this is the same shooting. The only clues that it is are the location and the date. Perhaps there were two shootings in that gated community that night..?

On Google Maps this just looks like a block of townhomes together. It would fit with some of the other reports.

 

[Christo]

OK, all the white-murder apologists listen up:

The guy called 911 because he saw a black kid (aka suspicious person) in his neighborhood

Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman

He (after calling 911 because he saw a black person) took the law into his own hands and confronted the kid (who was in his own neighborhood).

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

The kid likely mouthed off, knowing dude was a total racist.

Words are exchanged. Scuffle happens. Armed paranoid white instigator kills unarmed black passer-by.

That does not mean it's no one's fault. It is Zimmerman's fault for approaching someone armed, and then firing that gun at someone and killing them. He deserves to be tried and convicted for murder and should be in jail right now. I can not think of a single justifiable reason this man is currently a free man.

ETA: When did this forum become affiliated with StormFront? Ridiculous what's going on in here.

Even if we take everything you've written as gospel that does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that it was murder. The guy confronts the kid without taking out his weapon. The kid gets scared and takes a poke at the guy. They struggle. The kid gets his hands on the weapon. The both end up with their hands on the gun and it goes off.

He injected himself into a situation that he should not have, obviously was suspicious of the kid for no good reason, and brought a live firearm into a situation where he created a confrontation needlessly, and likely against the advice of the police he spoke to just moments before.So you're going to dream this up into involuntary manslaughter? BULL####. It was a situation that did not require any action whatsoever, the guy assaulted the kid, and the kid ended up dead.

ETA: Did I seriously just read this?

The only question is should there be charges.

Really? An unarmed, innocent kid is dead, and you wonder if there should be charges at all? WTF is going on in here? Am I misreading that as well?

I'm sorry but there is some virulent racism going on in this thread. Or something. I don't know what the hell is wrong with people in here. I have heard at least 1/3 of the posters in here try and find some way to mitigate this guys guilt. He shot and killed an unarmed kid that was his neighbor. How is that not murder?

You have no idea if the bolded is true.

 

[Christo]

How? There is no question who shot who. Did shooting unarmed people become legal while I was asleep?Just reverse the races for one second: Armed black man shoots and kills unarmed white teen just steps away from his front door.Is there any way in hell that black man is not in jail and facing murder charges?And maybe its me but the level of outrage in this thread is way below where it needs to be.

Sounds like you are more interested in the politics than the facts.

 

[Christo]

Screw this thread. Have fun at your rallies.

 

[Christo]

At this juncture, I'd lean toward thinking that the DA is still pondering what charges to file, rather than whether to file charges.

Could be wrong.

[clifford]First Degree Murder and let the chips fall where they may![/clifford]

 

[Clifford]

That is true. Obviously a confrontation occurred. It now looks like it occurred when Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him.

Not sure why the police are withholding Zimmerman's testimony or not releasing the 911 call.

Why would police would be withholding this, especially given the scrutiny this case is getting.

 

[Slapdash]

Really confused why there would even be a neighborhood watch in a place like this anyways. Isn't the point of the gate to keep people out?

and do they have stores inside gated communities? I thought they were just houses.

If it is the address in the article Topes posted, it is more like a row of townhomes. The nearest convenience store looks a few blocks away.

 

[Christo]

OK, all the white-murder apologists listen up:

The guy called 911 because he saw a black kid (aka suspicious person) in his neighborhood

Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman

He (after calling 911 because he saw a black person) took the law into his own hands and confronted the kid (who was in his own neighborhood).

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

The kid likely mouthed off, knowing dude was a total racist.

Words are exchanged. Scuffle happens. Armed paranoid white instigator kills unarmed black passer-by.

That does not mean it's no one's fault. It is Zimmerman's fault for approaching someone armed, and then firing that gun at someone and killing them. He deserves to be tried and convicted for murder and should be in jail right now. I can not think of a single justifiable reason this man is currently a free man.

ETA: When did this forum become affiliated with StormFront? Ridiculous what's going on in here.

Even if we take everything you've written as gospel that does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that it was murder. The guy confronts the kid without taking out his weapon. The kid gets scared and takes a poke at the guy. They struggle. The kid gets his hands on the weapon. The both end up with their hands on the gun and it goes off.

He injected himself into a situation that he should not have, obviously was suspicious of the kid for no good reason, and brought a live firearm into a situation where he created a confrontation needlessly, and likely against the advice of the police he spoke to just moments before.So you're going to dream this up into involuntary manslaughter? BULL####. It was a situation that did not require any action whatsoever, the guy assaulted the kid, and the kid ended up dead.

ETA: Did I seriously just read this?

The only question is should there be charges.

Really? An unarmed, innocent kid is dead, and you wonder if there should be charges at all? WTF is going on in here? Am I misreading that as well?

I'm sorry but there is some virulent racism going on in this thread. Or something. I don't know what the hell is wrong with people in here. I have heard at least 1/3 of the posters in here try and find some way to mitigate this guys guilt. He shot and killed an unarmed kid that was his neighbor. How is that not murder?

I took the liberty of underlining every instance of conjecture in your post.

OK, please point to the kid's actions noted in the article that necessitated a 911 call. Seriously, list one.List one thing listed in the article that explained why Zimmerman was suspicious of the kid.

List one thing that states why a confrontation was necessary.

List one crime of which this kid has been convicted.

Again, do none of you feel any empathy towards this kid or his family?

Empathy is not the test in a criminal case. Evidence is. I doubt seriously anyone here doesn't feel bad for the parents of this young man. No greater agony than outliving your child. But we can only go with what we can prove when we talk charges and taking someone's liberty. Not with what we think we know.

Here's what we know from the article:An unarmed boy was attempting to return to his home at night.

That home is in a gated community.

Zimmerman saw the boy walking down the street and called 911.

Zimmerman at some point after calling 911 and before police arrived left his car and confronted the boy.

The boy is dead. Zimmerman shot him.

Zimmerman had a bloodied nose and grass stain on his shirt.

This is not enough, in your opinion, to charge Zimmerman with a crime?

Are you sure? You can't think of any scenario where Zimmerman just shot the kid? Remember, the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[peaces]

Seems like even if the guy isn't charged, the kids family has quite the civil case against this "captain".

 

[Christo]

I'm sure the cops would be too. The racial bias of this police station is pretty obvious. I get being cautious about making a conviction without the facts. I support that. I do not support this guy not even being charged with a crime after he took someone's life in a situation in which self-defense is a highly suspect claim. And I don't take the fact that he has a 4-year degree as proof he is above suspicion.

Really? Based on what evidence? Have there been civil rights complaints in the past against them? If so please feel free to link to them.

There was this one time when a white guy shot a black kid because the kid was eating skittles inside a gated community. The police did nothing.

Investigating the purported crime is not "nothing."

 

[Christo]

A new nugget on how the altercation started:

Zimmerman told the police that Martin noticed that he was being followed and asked, “what’s your problem?”

That's when a physical confrontation ensued, Lee said. And moments later, Martin was shot.

Lee said that Zimmerman has a legal permit to carry the weapon used in the shooting, and that he told police that he shot Martin in self-defense.

“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.

The chief said the police have met with Zimmerman on two to three separate occasions, and that their investigation should be wrapped up this week. He said all of the evidence in the case will be delivered to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office soon after.

“We’re going to present all the information and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we’re able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter,” Lee said.

“It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin Family,” Lee said. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back.”

His intent to kill someone that day isn't really the question.

It's part of it. If they can prove he set set out to kill someone that night they can charge him with First Degree Murder.

 

[Clinton]

Where is Clinton? I think he should come in here and shed some light on this situation.

Banging away.

I wish. Unfortunately, I'm married.

 

[renesauz]

That is true. Obviously a confrontation occurred. It now looks like it occurred when Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him.Not sure why the police are withholding Zimmerman's testimony or not releasing the 911 call.Why would police would be withholding this, especially given the scrutiny this case is getting.

Because they don't release evidance like this 24 hours into ANY investigation...not to mention the fact that one report said they were analyzing it to obtain the background sounds.If they announce they aren't pressing charges, THEN I would expect more info...because it will look very bad. But this early, you're being unreasonably hasty and judgemental.

 

[Christo]

That is true. Obviously a confrontation occurred. It now looks like it occurred when Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him.Not sure why the police are withholding Zimmerman's testimony or not releasing the 911 call.Why would police would be withholding this, especially given the scrutiny this case is getting.

Because they don't normally release information like that. It's called tainting the jury pool.

 

[Fennis]

Hmm. Through the whole thread, I'd pictured the shooting to have happened on or next to a sidewalk.

The thought had occurred to me that there might have been a chase.

The accounts presented suggest that the Volunteer Cop saw the kid walking on a sidewalk from his car.

(What seems to be) an early report on the shooting says the body was found behind a building. It also states there was an arrest, rather than just a questioning.

Sanford Police Investigate Fatal Shooting

Police Arrest Suspect In Attack

POSTED: 8:32 pm EST February 26, 2012

UPDATED: 10:34 pm EST February 26, 2012

SANFORD, Fla. -- Sanford police said they arrested a suspect in a fatal shooting at the Twin Lake Town Homes Sunday evening.

About 7:15 p.m., police said they received a 911 call of shots fired at 1231 Twin Trees Lane. When officers arrived about a minute later, they found a male victim behind a building.

Paramedics pronounced the man dead at the scene.

Sanford Police Department Sgt. Dave Morgenstern said the suspect surrendered without incident. Detectives are interviewing witnesses and the suspect to determine what led to the argument and shooting.

Police had not released names of anyone involved as of Sunday night.

I am not certain this is the same shooting. The only clues that it is are the location and the date. Perhaps there were two shootings in that gated community that night..?

On Google Maps this just looks like a block of townhomes together. It would fit with some of the other reports.

Per zillow, they are ~$80,000 homes

 

[Fennis]

That is true. Obviously a confrontation occurred. It now looks like it occurred when Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him.Not sure why the police are withholding Zimmerman's testimony or not releasing the 911 call.Why would police would be withholding this, especially given the scrutiny this case is getting.

Because they don't normally release information like that. It's called tainting the jury pool.

:IBTL:

 

[Christo]

Just dug up another earlier article, with a lot more detail from a purported witness:

Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

Updated: Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 7:18 PM EST

Published : Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 4:55 PM EST

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Investigators with the Sanford Police Department are still trying to figure out exactly what happened during an altercation which resulted in a fatal shooting in the Twin Lakes area. The shooting happened just after 7 p.m. Sunday evening on Twin Trees Lane. A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

Police said the shooter, identified as 25-year-old George Zimmerman, surrendered immediately. He has been questioned, but no charges have been levied and no arrest made.

Neighbors tell us that the shooter patrols the community at night and is a member of the Neighorhood Watch committee; however, police are not commenting.

So the kid was on top beating the man and then he was shot.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Hmm. Through the whole thread, I'd pictured the shooting to have happened on or next to a sidewalk.

The thought had occurred to me that there might have been a chase.

The accounts presented suggest that the Volunteer Cop saw the kid walking on a sidewalk from his car.

(What seems to be) an early report on the shooting says the body was found behind a building. It also states there was an arrest, rather than just a questioning.

Sanford Police Investigate Fatal Shooting

Police Arrest Suspect In Attack

POSTED: 8:32 pm EST February 26, 2012

UPDATED: 10:34 pm EST February 26, 2012

SANFORD, Fla. -- Sanford police said they arrested a suspect in a fatal shooting at the Twin Lake Town Homes Sunday evening.

About 7:15 p.m., police said they received a 911 call of shots fired at 1231 Twin Trees Lane. When officers arrived about a minute later, they found a male victim behind a building.

Paramedics pronounced the man dead at the scene.

Sanford Police Department Sgt. Dave Morgenstern said the suspect surrendered without incident. Detectives are interviewing witnesses and the suspect to determine what led to the argument and shooting.

Police had not released names of anyone involved as of Sunday night.

I am not certain this is the same shooting. The only clues that it is are the location and the date. Perhaps there were two shootings in that gated community that night..?

On Google Maps this just looks like a block of townhomes together. It would fit with some of the other reports.

Per zillow, they are ~$80,000 homes

what are the gates made from, chicken wire?

 

[Mello]

That is true. Obviously a confrontation occurred. It now looks like it occurred when Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him.Not sure why the police are withholding Zimmerman's testimony or not releasing the 911 call.Why would police would be withholding this, especially given the scrutiny this case is getting.

Because they don't normally release information like that. It's called tainting the jury pool.

Do people really need to go find all kinds of leaks from police in many different cases to demonstrate that police have no problem releasing information when it sheds a favorable light on themselves?

 

[Clinton]

That is true. Obviously a confrontation occurred. It now looks like it occurred when Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him.

Not sure why the police are withholding Zimmerman's testimony or not releasing the 911 call.

Why would police would be withholding this, especially given the scrutiny this case is getting.

Because they don't normally release information like that. It's called tainting the jury pool.

Is that kind of like teabagging?

 

[Christo]

Seems like even if the guy isn't charged, the kids family has quite the civil case against this "captain".

Self defense also works in civil cases.

 

[pantagrapher]

A new nugget on how the altercation started:

Zimmerman told the police that Martin noticed that he was being followed and asked, “what’s your problem?”

That's when a physical confrontation ensued, Lee said. And moments later, Martin was shot.

Lee said that Zimmerman has a legal permit to carry the weapon used in the shooting, and that he told police that he shot Martin in self-defense.

“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.

The chief said the police have met with Zimmerman on two to three separate occasions, and that their investigation should be wrapped up this week. He said all of the evidence in the case will be delivered to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office soon after.

“We’re going to present all the information and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we’re able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter,” Lee said.

“It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin Family,” Lee said. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back.”

His intent to kill someone that day isn't really the question.

It's part of it. If they can prove he set set out to kill someone that night they can charge him with First Degree Murder.

I think what NCC is saying is that nobody, not even the family, thinks Zimmerman went out that night to kill somebody. The chief is basically answering non-existent critics with that statement.

 

[Christo]

A new nugget on how the altercation started:

Zimmerman told the police that Martin noticed that he was being followed and asked, “what’s your problem?”

That's when a physical confrontation ensued, Lee said. And moments later, Martin was shot.

Lee said that Zimmerman has a legal permit to carry the weapon used in the shooting, and that he told police that he shot Martin in self-defense.

“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.

The chief said the police have met with Zimmerman on two to three separate occasions, and that their investigation should be wrapped up this week. He said all of the evidence in the case will be delivered to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office soon after.

“We’re going to present all the information and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we’re able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter,” Lee said.

“It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin Family,” Lee said. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back.”

His intent to kill someone that day isn't really the question.

It's part of it. If they can prove he set set out to kill someone that night they can charge him with First Degree Murder.

I think what NCC is saying is that nobody, not even the family, thinks Zimmerman went out that night to kill somebody. The chief is basically answering non-existent critics with that statement.

Technically, the "that night" portion isn't in quotes. So we don't know if that's what Lee was saying.

 

[Topes]

The George Zimmerman profile is bouncing all over. I've seen articles saying he is 25, 26 and 28 years old.

Evidence for hardcore wannabe cop is building (though most had already presumed it).

Note to reporter: The phrase is "convenience store". Not "convenient store".

Trayvon Martin: Unarmed Florida Teen Shot Dead By Neighborhood Watch Leader George Zimmerman

By Ryan Villarreal: Subscribe to Ryan's RSS feed

March 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST

Trayvon Martin stepped outside his father's house for the last time on Feb. 26. The 17-year-old high school junior lived with his mother in Miami, but was visiting his father, who lived in a gated community in an Orlando, Fla. suburb. They were watching the NBA All-Star Game and it was half-time. Trayvon walked down the street to a local convenient store [sic], where he bought a can of iced tea and a packet of Skittles. On his way back home he noticed an older man in his late twenties was following him in a car.

"What's your problem?" Trayvon asked.

Moments later he was lying on his back in a patch of grass, a single gunshot wound to his chest. The bullet had been fired from the man's 9mm handgun.

That man was George Zimmerman, a 26-year-old college student who studied criminal justice and was head of the neighborhood watch at "The Retreat at Twin Lakes" townhome community in the City of Sanford. He was licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

Zimmerman had placed a 9-1-1 call earlier to report a "suspicious person in the area." Police told Zimmerman that they were sending over a squad car and advised him not to follow.

"[Trayvon] was stereotyped for some reason," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing the victim's family, reported the Huffington Post. "Why was Trayvon suspicious?"

Crump told the Post that he suspected Trayvon had been racially profiled by Zimmerman, a white man, because he was a black youth.

When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman explained that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense after they had gotten into a physical altercation. A search of Trayvon's body revealed the iced tea, candy and $22.

Sanford Police have not released any further details about what might have transpired between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

"What happened between him being confronted, up to the point where he got shot, nobody knows but him and that guy," Tracy Martin, the boy's father, told the Post. "I'm looking for justice for my family. I want answers but I don't have any to give--not for his mother, his brothers or sisters. We don't have nothing, but we want answers."

"We need to get all the facts and circumstances straight so that we can determine what truly happened," said Sanford's police chief Bill Lee, the Miami Herald reported.

Lee told the Herald that the case is still under investigation and it would go to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office once it was finalized.

Zimmerman was arrested and later released. He has been interviewed by Sanford Police three times and is cooperating with the investigation, the Post reported.

"Right now we're all on pins and needles," Tracy Martin told the Post. "When I asked the police why there's been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman's] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean."

Crump told the Post that Trayvon's family is demanding Zimmerman's arrest and for the case to go before the State Attorney's Office. They are also seeking the release of the tapes of 9-1-1 calls from neighbors following the shooting. Police chief Lee told the Post that they have been withheld because they could influence the testimony of potential witnesses.

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

"It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin family," Lee added. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back."

The most interesting part is the wording here:Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

 

[Christo]

The George Zimmerman profile is bouncing all over. I've seen articles saying he is 25, 26 and 28 years old.

Evidence for hardcore wannabe cop is building (though most had already presumed it).

Note to reporter: The phrase is "convenience store". Not "convenient store".

Trayvon Martin: Unarmed Florida Teen Shot Dead By Neighborhood Watch Leader George Zimmerman

By Ryan Villarreal: Subscribe to Ryan's RSS feed

March 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST

Trayvon Martin stepped outside his father's house for the last time on Feb. 26. The 17-year-old high school junior lived with his mother in Miami, but was visiting his father, who lived in a gated community in an Orlando, Fla. suburb. They were watching the NBA All-Star Game and it was half-time. Trayvon walked down the street to a local convenient store [sic], where he bought a can of iced tea and a packet of Skittles. On his way back home he noticed an older man in his late twenties was following him in a car.

"What's your problem?" Trayvon asked.

Moments later he was lying on his back in a patch of grass, a single gunshot wound to his chest. The bullet had been fired from the man's 9mm handgun.

That man was George Zimmerman, a 26-year-old college student who studied criminal justice and was head of the neighborhood watch at "The Retreat at Twin Lakes" townhome community in the City of Sanford. He was licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

Zimmerman had placed a 9-1-1 call earlier to report a "suspicious person in the area." Police told Zimmerman that they were sending over a squad car and advised him not to follow.

"[Trayvon] was stereotyped for some reason," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing the victim's family, reported the Huffington Post. "Why was Trayvon suspicious?"

Crump told the Post that he suspected Trayvon had been racially profiled by Zimmerman, a white man, because he was a black youth.

When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman explained that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense after they had gotten into a physical altercation. A search of Trayvon's body revealed the iced tea, candy and $22.

Sanford Police have not released any further details about what might have transpired between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

"What happened between him being confronted, up to the point where he got shot, nobody knows but him and that guy," Tracy Martin, the boy's father, told the Post. "I'm looking for justice for my family. I want answers but I don't have any to give--not for his mother, his brothers or sisters. We don't have nothing, but we want answers."

"We need to get all the facts and circumstances straight so that we can determine what truly happened," said Sanford's police chief Bill Lee, the Miami Herald reported.

Lee told the Herald that the case is still under investigation and it would go to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office once it was finalized.

Zimmerman was arrested and later released. He has been interviewed by Sanford Police three times and is cooperating with the investigation, the Post reported.

"Right now we're all on pins and needles," Tracy Martin told the Post. "When I asked the police why there's been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman's] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean."

Crump told the Post that Trayvon's family is demanding Zimmerman's arrest and for the case to go before the State Attorney's Office. They are also seeking the release of the tapes of 9-1-1 calls from neighbors following the shooting. Police chief Lee told the Post that they have been withheld because they could influence the testimony of potential witnesses.

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

"It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin family," Lee added. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back."

The most interesting part is the wording here:Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

 

[cstu]

The George Zimmerman profile is bouncing all over. I've seen articles saying he is 25, 26 and 28 years old.

Evidence for hardcore wannabe cop is building (though most had already presumed it).

Note to reporter: The phrase is "convenience store". Not "convenient store".

Trayvon Martin: Unarmed Florida Teen Shot Dead By Neighborhood Watch Leader George Zimmerman

By Ryan Villarreal: Subscribe to Ryan's RSS feed

March 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST

Trayvon Martin stepped outside his father's house for the last time on Feb. 26. The 17-year-old high school junior lived with his mother in Miami, but was visiting his father, who lived in a gated community in an Orlando, Fla. suburb. They were watching the NBA All-Star Game and it was half-time. Trayvon walked down the street to a local convenient store [sic], where he bought a can of iced tea and a packet of Skittles. On his way back home he noticed an older man in his late twenties was following him in a car.

"What's your problem?" Trayvon asked.

Moments later he was lying on his back in a patch of grass, a single gunshot wound to his chest. The bullet had been fired from the man's 9mm handgun.

That man was George Zimmerman, a 26-year-old college student who studied criminal justice and was head of the neighborhood watch at "The Retreat at Twin Lakes" townhome community in the City of Sanford. He was licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

Zimmerman had placed a 9-1-1 call earlier to report a "suspicious person in the area." Police told Zimmerman that they were sending over a squad car and advised him not to follow.

"[Trayvon] was stereotyped for some reason," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing the victim's family, reported the Huffington Post. "Why was Trayvon suspicious?"

Crump told the Post that he suspected Trayvon had been racially profiled by Zimmerman, a white man, because he was a black youth.

When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman explained that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense after they had gotten into a physical altercation. A search of Trayvon's body revealed the iced tea, candy and $22.

Sanford Police have not released any further details about what might have transpired between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

"What happened between him being confronted, up to the point where he got shot, nobody knows but him and that guy," Tracy Martin, the boy's father, told the Post. "I'm looking for justice for my family. I want answers but I don't have any to give--not for his mother, his brothers or sisters. We don't have nothing, but we want answers."

"We need to get all the facts and circumstances straight so that we can determine what truly happened," said Sanford's police chief Bill Lee, the Miami Herald reported.

Lee told the Herald that the case is still under investigation and it would go to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office once it was finalized.

Zimmerman was arrested and later released. He has been interviewed by Sanford Police three times and is cooperating with the investigation, the Post reported.

"Right now we're all on pins and needles," Tracy Martin told the Post. "When I asked the police why there's been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman's] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean."

Crump told the Post that Trayvon's family is demanding Zimmerman's arrest and for the case to go before the State Attorney's Office. They are also seeking the release of the tapes of 9-1-1 calls from neighbors following the shooting. Police chief Lee told the Post that they have been withheld because they could influence the testimony of potential witnesses.

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

"It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin family," Lee added. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back."

The most interesting part is the wording here:Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

"evidence that we're able to produce"These words are very suspect and do indicate they are trying to build a self-defense case for Zimmerman.

 

[Christo]

The George Zimmerman profile is bouncing all over. I've seen articles saying he is 25, 26 and 28 years old.

Evidence for hardcore wannabe cop is building (though most had already presumed it).

Note to reporter: The phrase is "convenience store". Not "convenient store".

Trayvon Martin: Unarmed Florida Teen Shot Dead By Neighborhood Watch Leader George Zimmerman

By Ryan Villarreal: Subscribe to Ryan's RSS feed

March 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST

Trayvon Martin stepped outside his father's house for the last time on Feb. 26. The 17-year-old high school junior lived with his mother in Miami, but was visiting his father, who lived in a gated community in an Orlando, Fla. suburb. They were watching the NBA All-Star Game and it was half-time. Trayvon walked down the street to a local convenient store [sic], where he bought a can of iced tea and a packet of Skittles. On his way back home he noticed an older man in his late twenties was following him in a car.

"What's your problem?" Trayvon asked.

Moments later he was lying on his back in a patch of grass, a single gunshot wound to his chest. The bullet had been fired from the man's 9mm handgun.

That man was George Zimmerman, a 26-year-old college student who studied criminal justice and was head of the neighborhood watch at "The Retreat at Twin Lakes" townhome community in the City of Sanford. He was licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

Zimmerman had placed a 9-1-1 call earlier to report a "suspicious person in the area." Police told Zimmerman that they were sending over a squad car and advised him not to follow.

"[Trayvon] was stereotyped for some reason," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing the victim's family, reported the Huffington Post. "Why was Trayvon suspicious?"

Crump told the Post that he suspected Trayvon had been racially profiled by Zimmerman, a white man, because he was a black youth.

When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman explained that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense after they had gotten into a physical altercation. A search of Trayvon's body revealed the iced tea, candy and $22.

Sanford Police have not released any further details about what might have transpired between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

"What happened between him being confronted, up to the point where he got shot, nobody knows but him and that guy," Tracy Martin, the boy's father, told the Post. "I'm looking for justice for my family. I want answers but I don't have any to give--not for his mother, his brothers or sisters. We don't have nothing, but we want answers."

"We need to get all the facts and circumstances straight so that we can determine what truly happened," said Sanford's police chief Bill Lee, the Miami Herald reported.

Lee told the Herald that the case is still under investigation and it would go to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office once it was finalized.

Zimmerman was arrested and later released. He has been interviewed by Sanford Police three times and is cooperating with the investigation, the Post reported.

"Right now we're all on pins and needles," Tracy Martin told the Post. "When I asked the police why there's been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman's] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean."

Crump told the Post that Trayvon's family is demanding Zimmerman's arrest and for the case to go before the State Attorney's Office. They are also seeking the release of the tapes of 9-1-1 calls from neighbors following the shooting. Police chief Lee told the Post that they have been withheld because they could influence the testimony of potential witnesses.

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

"It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin family," Lee added. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back."

The most interesting part is the wording here:Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

"evidence that we're able to produce"These words are very suspect and do indicate they are trying to build a self-defense case for Zimmerman.

 

[Topes]

Just dug up another earlier article, with a lot more detail from a purported witness:

Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

Updated: Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 7:18 PM EST

Published : Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 4:55 PM EST

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Investigators with the Sanford Police Department are still trying to figure out exactly what happened during an altercation which resulted in a fatal shooting in the Twin Lakes area. The shooting happened just after 7 p.m. Sunday evening on Twin Trees Lane. A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

Police said the shooter, identified as 25-year-old George Zimmerman, surrendered immediately. He has been questioned, but no charges have been levied and no arrest made.

Neighbors tell us that the shooter patrols the community at night and is a member of the Neighorhood Watch committee; however, police are not commenting.

So the kid was on top beating the man and then he was shot.

So sez a semi-anonymous witness who is a member of the community the gunman was 'protecting'.His testimony in statements and in court is what matters.

I mainly found it interesting that this is the only eyewitness account I could find, but it's missing from most (all?) subsequent stories on the shooting.

 

[jomar]

How much bigger and stronger does a white guy have to be to win a fight against a black guy? If you can't handle yourself against a 140 lb teenager, perhaps just stay in your car. I guarantee he would have except for the fact that he had a gun.

This guy should, and probably will be, charged with something. I can't see any good reason for him to have left his car with a gun.

 

[roadkill1292]

Maybe Trayvon thought he was being stalked by a crazy hostile white guy who meant him bodily harm and reacted accordingly.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Kid could've been doing any number of uppity things. We'll never know.

 

[Daywalker]

Big badass patrolling the neighborhood with a gun sticks his nose into something harmless. Some younger kid starts kicking his ### and he shoots him.

15-20, out in 10 sounds about right. Lucky too.

Are concealed weapon permits easy to get in parts of the country?

 

[Christo]

Big badass patrolling the neighborhood with a gun sticks his nose into something harmless. Some younger kid starts kicking his ### and he shoots him.

15-20, out in 10 sounds about right. Lucky too.

Are concealed weapon permits easy to get in parts of the country?

How do we know this? All we have is the family's claim he was just out for some Skittles. Maybe he was casing the neighborhood.Hey, if speculation is good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Maybe Trayvon thought he was being stalked by a crazy hostile white guy who meant him bodily harm and reacted accordingly.

He was right.

 

[humpback]

So the kid was on top beating the man and then he was shot.

So sez a semi-anonymous witness who is a member of the community the gunman was 'protecting'.His testimony in statements and in court is what matters.I mainly found it interesting that this is the only eyewitness account I could find, but it's missing from most (all?) subsequent stories on the shooting.

So it's perfectly fine to assume that the man just attacked the kid for no reason even though that isn't reported anywhere, but then you downplay the only statement given by an eye-witness because it doesn't fit your view of what happened.