Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (11 Viewers)

[Christo]

Maybe Trayvon thought he was being stalked by a crazy hostile white guy who meant him bodily harm and reacted accordingly.

He was right.

I wouldn't call attacking someone with a gun and an attitude "reacting accordingly."

 

[Christo]

So the kid was on top beating the man and then he was shot.

So sez a semi-anonymous witness who is a member of the community the gunman was 'protecting'.His testimony in statements and in court is what matters.I mainly found it interesting that this is the only eyewitness account I could find, but it's missing from most (all?) subsequent stories on the shooting.

So it's perfectly fine to assume that the man just attacked the kid for no reason even though that isn't reported anywhere, but then you downplay the only statement given by an eye-witness because it doesn't fit your view of what happened.

Remember, Topes is the one who suggested that the cops did the guy a favor by roughing him up so it looked like the kid attacked him.

 

[Topes]

I like cheese.

 

[Moe.]

What kind of 26 year old signs up for neighborhood watch? Also, probably not a good idea for him to be packing. Not a lot of good can come from that.

 

[Da Guru]

The big mystery is whatever happened to the Skittles? Cops ate them?

 

[GregR]

The most interesting part is the wording here:

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

The words seem to suggest that he was responding to a question about the case for self-defense. Not that the police have that as their goal.You don't use wording like, "If X happens, they may," and leave unstated what action "they" may do unless you're replying to a question that set the context of what you're replying about.

 

[Clinton]

What kind of 26 year old signs up for neighborhood watch?

A young parent?I would because I'm in better shape than most of the old-timers in my neighborhood.

Also, probably not a good idea for him to be packing. Not a lot of good can come from that.

It could come in handy if you needed to defend yourself.

 

[TexanFan02]

What kind of 26 year old signs up for neighborhood watch?

A young parent?I would because I'm in better shape than most of the old-timers in my neighborhood.

Also, probably not a good idea for him to be packing. Not a lot of good can come from that.

It could come in handy if you needed to defend yourself.

Especially if you accost people after the police have told you to let them handle it.

 

[roadkill1292]

Maybe Trayvon thought he was being stalked by a crazy hostile white guy who meant him bodily harm and reacted accordingly.

He was right.

I wouldn't call attacking someone with a gun and an attitude "reacting accordingly."

Maybe there was no attack by Trayvon. Maybe Zimmerman was pistol whipping him until Trayvon managed to turn the tables in a last desperate gasp for life. This is fun.I, too, would like the final word on the Skittles.

 

[GregR]

So hypothetical question...

Let's say that the police get Zimmerman's version of the story. Let's say hypothetically, the only other witness saw the kid on Zimmerman as started in the one article, but didn't see what led to that moment. The witness goes to call 911 and doesn't see anything more until the kid is dead.

Further, let's say the 911 background supplies no further evidence of what transpired.

So the heart of this hypothetical is, there is no corroboration for Zimmerman's version of how things transpired, other than confirmation that at some point they were fighting and the kid was on top. There's no actual evidence whether Zimmerman instigated the fight, or the kid did, beyond Zimmerman's own testimony.

Under this hypothetical circumstance, should charges be filed by the DA? And what charge(s) would they be if so?

 

[StrikeS2k]

So hypothetical question...Let's say that the police get Zimmerman's version of the story. Let's say hypothetically, the only other witness saw the kid on Zimmerman as started in the one article, but didn't see what led to that moment. The witness goes to call 911 and doesn't see anything more until the kid is dead. Further, let's say the 911 background supplies no further evidence of what transpired. So the heart of this hypothetical is, there is no corroboration for Zimmerman's version of how things transpired, other than confirmation that at some point they were fighting and the kid was on top. There's no actual evidence whether Zimmerman instigated the fight, or the kid did, beyond Zimmerman's own testimony.Under this hypothetical circumstance, should charges be filed by the DA? And what charge(s) would they be if so?

Charges should absolutely be filed. In self defense you're allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself. I don't think, even if the kid attacked him with fists, he's justified in pulling out a gun and shooting him. I don't even think cops are allowed to shoot unarmed people unless their life is in imminent danger. There would have to be extreme circumstances for me to think this was in any way justified.

 

[Daywalker]

What kind of 26 year old signs up for neighborhood watch?

A young parent?I would because I'm in better shape than most of the old-timers in my neighborhood.

Also, probably not a good idea for him to be packing. Not a lot of good can come from that.

It could come in handy if you needed to defend yourself.

That's fine just be prepared to go to jail for a long time when you "defend" yourself. This story going to blow up soon and the pressure is going to be huge on the authorities.

 

[kentric]

I would expect that he has to be charged with something. If there are that many open holes as to what happened, you can't just leave it as self defense and move on, not with someone shot dead.

 

[Moe.]

What kind of 26 year old signs up for neighborhood watch?

A young parent?I would because I'm in better shape than most of the old-timers in my neighborhood.

Also, probably not a good idea for him to be packing. Not a lot of good can come from that.

It could come in handy if you needed to defend yourself.

Neighborhood watch guys shouldn't be out there mixing it up with people. They're just volunteers, they have absolutely no authority whatsoever. Call the cops and stay inside. I think it is a bad idea for them to go around carrying.

 

[Rick James]

The amount of story-crafting and what-if-this-happened in this thread is staggering.

 

[Joe T]

The amount of story-crafting and what-if-this-happened in this thread is staggering.

It is Friday in the FFA. Lots of good imaginations in here.

 

[Clinton]

What kind of 26 year old signs up for neighborhood watch?

A young parent?I would because I'm in better shape than most of the old-timers in my neighborhood.

Also, probably not a good idea for him to be packing. Not a lot of good can come from that.

It could come in handy if you needed to defend yourself.

That's fine just be prepared to go to jail for a long time when you "defend" yourself. This story going to blow up soon and the pressure is going to be huge on the authorities.

I wasn't talking about this particular incident. Just packing for self defense in general.:USA Carry:

 

[glock]

What kind of 26 year old signs up for neighborhood watch?

A young parent?

I would because I'm in better shape than most of the old-timers in my neighborhood.

Also, probably not a good idea for him to be packing. Not a lot of good can come from that.

It could come in handy if you needed to defend yourself.

Better shape for what? It's a Neighborhood WATCH.

 

[Clifford]

The George Zimmerman profile is bouncing all over. I've seen articles saying he is 25, 26 and 28 years old.

Evidence for hardcore wannabe cop is building (though most had already presumed it).

Note to reporter: The phrase is "convenience store". Not "convenient store".

Trayvon Martin: Unarmed Florida Teen Shot Dead By Neighborhood Watch Leader George Zimmerman

By Ryan Villarreal: Subscribe to Ryan's RSS feed

March 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST

Trayvon Martin stepped outside his father's house for the last time on Feb. 26. The 17-year-old high school junior lived with his mother in Miami, but was visiting his father, who lived in a gated community in an Orlando, Fla. suburb. They were watching the NBA All-Star Game and it was half-time. Trayvon walked down the street to a local convenient store [sic], where he bought a can of iced tea and a packet of Skittles. On his way back home he noticed an older man in his late twenties was following him in a car.

"What's your problem?" Trayvon asked.

Moments later he was lying on his back in a patch of grass, a single gunshot wound to his chest. The bullet had been fired from the man's 9mm handgun.

That man was George Zimmerman, a 26-year-old college student who studied criminal justice and was head of the neighborhood watch at "The Retreat at Twin Lakes" townhome community in the City of Sanford. He was licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

Zimmerman had placed a 9-1-1 call earlier to report a "suspicious person in the area." Police told Zimmerman that they were sending over a squad car and advised him not to follow.

"[Trayvon] was stereotyped for some reason," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing the victim's family, reported the Huffington Post. "Why was Trayvon suspicious?"

Crump told the Post that he suspected Trayvon had been racially profiled by Zimmerman, a white man, because he was a black youth.

When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman explained that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense after they had gotten into a physical altercation. A search of Trayvon's body revealed the iced tea, candy and $22.

Sanford Police have not released any further details about what might have transpired between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

"What happened between him being confronted, up to the point where he got shot, nobody knows but him and that guy," Tracy Martin, the boy's father, told the Post. "I'm looking for justice for my family. I want answers but I don't have any to give--not for his mother, his brothers or sisters. We don't have nothing, but we want answers."

"We need to get all the facts and circumstances straight so that we can determine what truly happened," said Sanford's police chief Bill Lee, the Miami Herald reported.

Lee told the Herald that the case is still under investigation and it would go to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office once it was finalized.

Zimmerman was arrested and later released. He has been interviewed by Sanford Police three times and is cooperating with the investigation, the Post reported.

"Right now we're all on pins and needles," Tracy Martin told the Post. "When I asked the police why there's been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman's] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean."

Crump told the Post that Trayvon's family is demanding Zimmerman's arrest and for the case to go before the State Attorney's Office. They are also seeking the release of the tapes of 9-1-1 calls from neighbors following the shooting. Police chief Lee told the Post that they have been withheld because they could influence the testimony of potential witnesses.

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

"It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin family," Lee added. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back."

The most interesting part is the wording here:Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

"evidence that we're able to produce"These words are very suspect and do indicate they are trying to build a self-defense case for Zimmerman.

Looks that way to anyone willing to look.

 

[Clifford]

The amount of story-crafting and what-if-this-happened in this thread is staggering.

Don't worry, none of it is racially motivated. And now that we know this 140-lb kid was viciously attacking this poor 28-year-old wannabe cop, we can all see that there is no reason to suspect the motives of the Florida police force or why this white 28-year-old wannabe cop thought it necessary to follow and call 911 on a black kid.Case closed folks!

 

[Christo]

The George Zimmerman profile is bouncing all over. I've seen articles saying he is 25, 26 and 28 years old.

Evidence for hardcore wannabe cop is building (though most had already presumed it).

Note to reporter: The phrase is "convenience store". Not "convenient store".

Trayvon Martin: Unarmed Florida Teen Shot Dead By Neighborhood Watch Leader George Zimmerman

By Ryan Villarreal: Subscribe to Ryan's RSS feed

March 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST

Trayvon Martin stepped outside his father's house for the last time on Feb. 26. The 17-year-old high school junior lived with his mother in Miami, but was visiting his father, who lived in a gated community in an Orlando, Fla. suburb. They were watching the NBA All-Star Game and it was half-time. Trayvon walked down the street to a local convenient store [sic], where he bought a can of iced tea and a packet of Skittles. On his way back home he noticed an older man in his late twenties was following him in a car.

"What's your problem?" Trayvon asked.

Moments later he was lying on his back in a patch of grass, a single gunshot wound to his chest. The bullet had been fired from the man's 9mm handgun.

That man was George Zimmerman, a 26-year-old college student who studied criminal justice and was head of the neighborhood watch at "The Retreat at Twin Lakes" townhome community in the City of Sanford. He was licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

Zimmerman had placed a 9-1-1 call earlier to report a "suspicious person in the area." Police told Zimmerman that they were sending over a squad car and advised him not to follow.

"[Trayvon] was stereotyped for some reason," said attorney Benjamin Crump, who is representing the victim's family, reported the Huffington Post. "Why was Trayvon suspicious?"

Crump told the Post that he suspected Trayvon had been racially profiled by Zimmerman, a white man, because he was a black youth.

When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman explained that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense after they had gotten into a physical altercation. A search of Trayvon's body revealed the iced tea, candy and $22.

Sanford Police have not released any further details about what might have transpired between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

"What happened between him being confronted, up to the point where he got shot, nobody knows but him and that guy," Tracy Martin, the boy's father, told the Post. "I'm looking for justice for my family. I want answers but I don't have any to give--not for his mother, his brothers or sisters. We don't have nothing, but we want answers."

"We need to get all the facts and circumstances straight so that we can determine what truly happened," said Sanford's police chief Bill Lee, the Miami Herald reported.

Lee told the Herald that the case is still under investigation and it would go to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office once it was finalized.

Zimmerman was arrested and later released. He has been interviewed by Sanford Police three times and is cooperating with the investigation, the Post reported.

"Right now we're all on pins and needles," Tracy Martin told the Post. "When I asked the police why there's been no arrest, they told me they respected [Zimmerman's] background, that he studied criminal justice for four years and that he was squeaky clean."

Crump told the Post that Trayvon's family is demanding Zimmerman's arrest and for the case to go before the State Attorney's Office. They are also seeking the release of the tapes of 9-1-1 calls from neighbors following the shooting. Police chief Lee told the Post that they have been withheld because they could influence the testimony of potential witnesses.

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

"It is certainly and absolutely a tragedy, especially for the Martin family," Lee added. "No one expects their teenage son to go the store and never come back."

The most interesting part is the wording here:Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

"evidence that we're able to produce"These words are very suspect and do indicate they are trying to build a self-defense case for Zimmerman.

Looks that way to anyone willing to look.

 

[Christo]

The amount of story-crafting and what-if-this-happened in this thread is staggering.

Don't worry, none of it is racially motivated. And now that we know this 140-lb kid was viciously attacking this poor 28-year-old wannabe cop, we can all see that there is no reason to suspect the motives of the Florida police force or why this white 28-year-old wannabe cop thought it necessary to follow and call 911 on a black kid.Case closed folks!

 

[Sam Quentin]

The amount of story-crafting and what-if-this-happened in this thread is staggering.

Don't worry, none of it is racially motivated. And now that we know this 140-lb kid was viciously attacking this poor 28-year-old wannabe cop, we can all see that there is no reason to suspect the motives of the Florida police force or why this white 28-year-old wannabe cop thought it necessary to follow and call 911 on a black kid.Case closed folks!

he ages fast in here

 

[Clifford]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

 

[Christo]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

 

[jamny]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

I'm surprised at how some of the people I considered to be kinda level-headed just jumped to an obvious conclusion. I don't know why I am, but I am.

 

[cstu]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

I'm surprised at how some of the people I considered to be kinda level-headed just jumped to an obvious conclusion. I don't know why I am, but I am.

What other conclusions are there? Occam's Razor tells me that this guy was overly aggressive with a kid walking down the street simply because he was black, got into a scuffle and shot him. That's about as straight forward as it gets.

 

[humpback]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

Serious question- do you really think that's what he (or anyone else) is saying?

 

[jamny]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

I'm surprised at how some of the people I considered to be kinda level-headed just jumped to an obvious conclusion. I don't know why I am, but I am.

What other conclusions are there? Occam's Razor tells me that this guy was overly aggressive with a kid walking down the street simply because he was black, got into a scuffle and shot him. That's about as straight forward as it gets.

Just the difference between "probably did" and "did"

 

[Christo]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

I'm surprised at how some of the people I considered to be kinda level-headed just jumped to an obvious conclusion. I don't know why I am, but I am.

What other conclusions are there? Occam's Razor tells me that this guy was overly aggressive with a kid walking down the street simply because he was black, got into a scuffle and shot him. That's about as straight forward as it gets.

What does that have to do with your and Clifford's claim that the cops are motivated by some racial bias and trying to build a self-defense case for Zimmerman?

 

[Christo]

The amount of story-crafting and what-if-this-happened in this thread is staggering.

Don't worry, none of it is racially motivated. And now that we know this 140-lb kid was viciously attacking this poor 28-year-old wannabe cop, we can all see that there is no reason to suspect the motives of the Florida police force or why this white 28-year-old wannabe cop thought it necessary to follow and call 911 on a black kid.Case closed folks!

Yes Christo, we know you are the smartest guy in the room. I remember my first day in the FFA.

Thank you. I don't like to toot my own horn.

 

[Topes]

The most interesting part is the wording here:

Lee added that the investigation was expected to wrap up this week, and all the pertinent information would be presented when the case goes before the State Attorney's Office.

"We're going to present all the information, and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we're able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self-defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter," Lee told the Post.

The words in this horribly-constructed non-sentence seem to suggest that the police are trying to establish the case for self-defense, rather than trying to establish the facts. It's not worded that way, straight up; it's worded poorly.

On a previous page, a couple posters caught that Lee was defending Zimmerman against a straw man premeditated murder argument. That exchange suggested that the cops seemed to be in Zimmerman's corner here. This would seem to be more of the same.

The words seem to suggest that he was responding to a question about the case for self-defense. Not that the police have that as their goal.You don't use wording like, "If X happens, they may," and leave unstated what action "they" may do unless you're replying to a question that set the context of what you're replying about.

I think that's right on. In that context, it's not even a poorly worded statement.I dumbfounded myself by reading it straight-on as a standalone statement.

Carry on.

 

[Clinton]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

 

[jamny]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

What if it was a white kid who looked like a meth head?

 

[Christo]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Clifford's claim is that the police reaction has been racially motivated and that they are trying to protect Zimmerman by helping him build a self defense claim before it goes to the prosecutor.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Because of all the racially motivated gang beatings no doubt.

 

[Clinton]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Clifford's claim is that the police reaction has been racially motivated and that they are trying to protect Zimmerman by helping him build a self defense claim before it goes to the prosecutor.

Oh, well I'm not on board with that.

 

[cstu]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Clifford's claim is that the police reaction has been racially motivated and that they are trying to protect Zimmerman by helping him build a self defense claim before it goes to the prosecutor.

Had a black guy in a black neighborhood harassed a white kid and killed him do you think he'd be walking free right now?

 

[Clinton]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Because of all the racially motivated gang beatings no doubt.

The kid was alone, though. The beatings are coming in mob form because they're too cowardly to attack and potentially have to fight one-on-one.

 

[Christo]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Clifford's claim is that the police reaction has been racially motivated and that they are trying to protect Zimmerman by helping him build a self defense claim before it goes to the prosecutor.

Had a black guy in a black neighborhood harassed a white kid and killed him do you think he'd be walking free right now?

Are the local cops black?

 

[Clinton]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

What if it was a white kid who looked like a meth head?

Meth face is harder to spot from a distance at night than black skin and mannerisms.

 

[DiStefano]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

What if it was a white kid who looked like a meth head?

Meth face is harder to spot from a distance at night than black skin and mannerisms.

Mannerisms?Racist.

 

[renesauz]

So hypothetical question...Let's say that the police get Zimmerman's version of the story. Let's say hypothetically, the only other witness saw the kid on Zimmerman as started in the one article, but didn't see what led to that moment. The witness goes to call 911 and doesn't see anything more until the kid is dead. Further, let's say the 911 background supplies no further evidence of what transpired. So the heart of this hypothetical is, there is no corroboration for Zimmerman's version of how things transpired, other than confirmation that at some point they were fighting and the kid was on top. There's no actual evidence whether Zimmerman instigated the fight, or the kid did, beyond Zimmerman's own testimony.Under this hypothetical circumstance, should charges be filed by the DA? And what charge(s) would they be if so?

I would still expect charges, unless there is some really compelling reason why Zimmerman got out of his car in the first place. Based on the limited info, I could see a manslaughter charge sticking pretty easily.

 

[renesauz]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

And your world, the one where race is apparently almost ALWAYS a factor, is more realistic?

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Has the mob of outrage started protesting outside the gated community yet?

 

[renesauz]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

This is dead-on. But I have a small problem with it. If I see a poorly dressed black kid in a mostly white neighborhood late at night, I'm suspicious too. (Note that that doesn't necessarily apply here...this neighborhood is apparently not a mostly white upper middle class place) Does that fact alone make me a bigot or racist, or simply pragmatic and suspicious? Zimmerman's an idiot who probably (based on our limited info) deserves to be charged with a serious crime, but that crime is certainly not looking on an outsider in a gated community with suspicion.The racist label is applied too quickly and too liberally I think. Worse, we spend too much effort looking for it in white people and ignoring it in black people. My kids have been pushed around and picked on BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE.

 

[renesauz]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Clifford's claim is that the police reaction has been racially motivated and that they are trying to protect Zimmerman by helping him build a self defense claim before it goes to the prosecutor.

Had a black guy in a black neighborhood harassed a white kid and killed him do you think he'd be walking free right now?

If he was 28 years old with a job, a squeaky clean record, AND fully cooperating? Probably.

 

[gsmayes]

Only in the FFA does a black kid have to justify not getting shot.

 

[Clinton]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

What if it was a white kid who looked like a meth head?

Meth face is harder to spot from a distance at night than black skin and mannerisms.

Mannerisms?Racist.

Yes, it's OK to admit that many young black men and teens often walk with a swagger that white people don't. Many black people comedians even do a bit on this in their routine and the crowd laughs because they know exactly what the comedian is talking about. Stop trying so hard to find racism where there isn't any.

 

[Christo]

Brilliant Christo.I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

And your world, the one where race is apparently almost ALWAYS a factor, is more realistic?

If a black man is involved it's always about race.To him, anyway.