Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[Guest]

It's been discussed in this thread. But don't let that stop you.

If you learned how to delete embedded quotes, threads would be easier to follow. Seriously.

 

[Christo]

Answer the question.

See above. No arrest is worth a damn unless charges are brought by the DA within 24 hours or so. If charges are NOT brought, it potentially opens the city up to a lawsuit.Believe it or not...most crimes don't result in immediate arrest, even when the suspect is identified immediately.

I'm interested in his answer because he's advocating a quick arrest.

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

 

[Christo]

It's been discussed in this thread. But don't let that stop you.

If you learned how to delete embedded quotes, threads would be easier to follow. Seriously.

You don't have to re-read every post.HTH

 

[Das Boot]

I have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty reasonable.

 

[Guest]

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

I'd say there's a fairly strong symbolism to someone getting arrested in a case like this. Even if he's released 4 hours later, there's been a public statement that what we think happened was something that broke the boundaries of the acceptable.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Zimmerman thought Trayvon was reaching into his bag for a gun when the kid just wanted to show him the Skittles. Zimmerman jumped him. They scuffled on the ground then a shot went off. One thing is certain. Trayvon would not be dead now if he were white.

 

[Christo]

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

I'd say there's a fairly strong symbolism to someone getting arrested in a case like this. Even if he's released 4 hours later, there's been a public statement that what we think happened was something that broke the boundaries of the acceptable.

In other words, politics.

 

[Christo]

I have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty reasonable.

The attitude he attributes to his cop friends isn't reality. They do have the discretion whether to arrest someone. I'd say a cop who chose to never exercise his discretion in favor of arrest 'em all and let the judge sort it out is not doing his job.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty reasonable.

The attitude he attributes to his cop friends isn't reality. They do have the discretion whether to arrest someone. I'd say a cop who chose to never exercise his discretion in favor of arrest 'em all and let the judge sort it out is not doing his job.

Dude, you`re just being an argumentative jerk...period. Watch an episode of cops and tell me what i said isnt reality, when they cuff someone for possesion of drugs or getting in a fight and the perp says ''i didnt do it '' or ''those arent my drugs'' they always tell the perp to ''tell it to the judge'' ...im guessing if someone killed someone you loved that was just walking home from the store and the cops let them just go home like all they did was shoplift or something you wouldnt be so stringent with your responses.

 

[SacramentoBob]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

 

[Christo]

I have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty reasonable.

The attitude he attributes to his cop friends isn't reality. They do have the discretion whether to arrest someone. I'd say a cop who chose to never exercise his discretion in favor of arrest 'em all and let the judge sort it out is not doing his job.

Dude, you`re just being an argumentative jerk...period. Watch an episode of cops and tell me what i said isnt reality, when they cuff someone for possesion of drugs or getting in a fight and the perp says ''i didnt do it '' or ''those arent my drugs'' they always tell the perp to ''tell it to the judge'' ...im guessing if someone killed someone you loved that was just walking home from the store and the cops let them just go home like all they did was shoplift or something you wouldnt be so stringent with your responses.

So your advice is to watch Cops.

 

[jonessed]

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

I'd say there's a fairly strong symbolism to someone getting arrested in a case like this. Even if he's released 4 hours later, there's been a public statement that what we think happened was something that broke the boundaries of the acceptable.

Throw him in jail as a symbolic gesture? Seriously?

 

[Guest]

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

I'd say there's a fairly strong symbolism to someone getting arrested in a case like this. Even if he's released 4 hours later, there's been a public statement that what we think happened was something that broke the boundaries of the acceptable.

Throw him in jail as a symbolic gesture? Seriously?

He did kill someone. I'm not sure that 4 hours of police detention is too much of an imposition on his liberty.

 

[jonessed]

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

I'd say there's a fairly strong symbolism to someone getting arrested in a case like this. Even if he's released 4 hours later, there's been a public statement that what we think happened was something that broke the boundaries of the acceptable.

Throw him in jail as a symbolic gesture? Seriously?

He did kill someone. I'm not sure that 4 hours of police detention is too much of an imposition on his liberty.

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

 

[StrikeS2k]

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

I'd say there's a fairly strong symbolism to someone getting arrested in a case like this. Even if he's released 4 hours later, there's been a public statement that what we think happened was something that broke the boundaries of the acceptable.

Throw him in jail as a symbolic gesture? Seriously?

He did kill someone. I'm not sure that 4 hours of police detention is too much of an imposition on his liberty.

Really? 4 armed intruders break in to my house, rape and kill my wife, and I come home and take them all out. The cops should arrest me until they decide whether to charge me because, you know, I killed four people?

 

[Christo]

This is why...'My son left Sanford, Florida in a body bag. While George Zimmerman went home to go to sleep in his own bed.' -Tracy MartinI have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

So no reason other than you'd feel better about it.

I'd say there's a fairly strong symbolism to someone getting arrested in a case like this. Even if he's released 4 hours later, there's been a public statement that what we think happened was something that broke the boundaries of the acceptable.

Throw him in jail as a symbolic gesture? Seriously?

He did kill someone. I'm not sure that 4 hours of police detention is too much of an imposition on his liberty.

Do we know that he wasn't detained by the police for 4 hours?You guys are acting like the first patrol car showed up, the cop surveyed the scene, Zimmerman said it was self defense and the cop let him walk away. Do you really think that's what happened? Or is it more likely several cars showed up. They questioned him. A supervisor showed up. He questioned him again. Maybe some homicide detectives showed up. They questioned him again. They listened to the 911 call. They listened to the witness. They decided he wasn't a danger to others so they let him go home.According to someone's post above, since that night Zimmerman has given three statements. As far as I know he hasn't shot anyone else. And he apparently hasn't fled the jurisdiction. So maybe, just maybe, the cops' decision to not arrest him on the spot wasn't so outlandish.

 

[jonessed]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

 

[Guest]

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

Sounds like you're the one with racial preconceptions. I'd say any time someone is walking down the street, a guy in a car calls 911 and says, "I can't wait for you. I gotta do something about this." and then shoots the guy walking down the street, there's enough reason to believe that the shooter did something wrong. And if he has to endure lock-up for a night before exonerating himself and it sends the message that shooting someone on the street without apparent cause is going to presumptively make you a criminal, I'm ok with that.You don't want to be locked up? Don't shoot people on the street.

 

[jonessed]

Brilliant Christo.

I suppose racial motivation never exists when police are processing crimes? Is that the fairy-world you live in?

I never said that. I am laughing at you for insisting that racial motivation exists here based upon a few out of context statements by one cop.CASE CLOSED!

My gut feeling, and I have no way of proving this, is that the neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of a black teen in the neighborhood, and probably wouldn't have been as suspicious of a white teen in the neighborhood.

Clifford's claim is that the police reaction has been racially motivated and that they are trying to protect Zimmerman by helping him build a self defense claim before it goes to the prosecutor.

Had a black guy in a black neighborhood harassed a white kid and killed him do you think he'd be walking free right now?

It depends on whether or not he was considered a flight risk.The baggage some of you carry around must get onerous.

 

[jonessed]

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

Sounds like you're the one with racial preconceptions. I'd say any time someone is walking down the street, a guy in a car calls 911 and says, "I can't wait for you. I gotta do something about this." and then shoots the guy walking down the street, there's enough reason to believe that the shooter did something wrong. And if he has to endure lock-up for a night before exonerating himself and it sends the message that shooting someone on the street without apparent cause is going to presumptively make you a criminal, I'm ok with that.You don't want to be locked up? Don't shoot people on the street.

Since he hasn't gone anywhere and no charges have been dealt it's pretty clear the police already made the right decision. You can argue otherwise, but the facts here are definitely against you.If he ends up being guilty he will spend enough time in prison to make up for any 4-hour symbolic gesture your racial hang-ups may have demanded.

 

[Guest]

Do we know that he wasn't detained by the police for 4 hours?

You guys are acting like the first patrol car showed up, the cop surveyed the scene, Zimmerman said it was self defense and the cop let him walk away. Do you really think that's what happened? Or is it more likely several cars showed up. They questioned him. A supervisor showed up. He questioned him again. Maybe some homicide detectives showed up. They questioned him again. They listened to the 911 call. They listened to the witness. They decided he wasn't a danger to others so they let him go home.

According to someone's post above, since that night Zimmerman has given three statements. As far as I know he hasn't shot anyone else. And he apparently hasn't fled the jurisdiction. So maybe, just maybe, the cops' decision to not arrest him on the spot wasn't so outlandish.

You should use this for your avatar.I'm not getting into long, involved hypotheticals on what you think everyone else thinks happened versus the hypothetical way that you think that it went down.

 

[SacramentoBob]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

There isn't, but he's going to have a good reason for getting out of the car in the first place. "He told me to go #### myself" isn't a good reason. Was the gun concealed? Did the kid see the guy come at him with a gun on his hip and feel he had to defend himself? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where the guy had to get out of the car at all. If the kid was beating the windshield in with a bat, that probably would've been reported already.

 

[Guest]

Since he hasn't gone anywhere and no charges have been dealt it's pretty clear the police already made the right decision. You can argue otherwise, but the facts here are definitely against you.

If he ends up being guilty he will spend enough time in prison to make up for any 4-hour symbolic gesture your racial hang-ups may have demanded.

How is what clear? And how do the absence of charges as of right now support that?

 

[Christo]

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

Sounds like you're the one with racial preconceptions. I'd say any time someone is walking down the street, a guy in a car calls 911 and says, "I can't wait for you. I gotta do something about this." and then shoots the guy walking down the street, there's enough reason to believe that the shooter did something wrong. And if he has to endure lock-up for a night before exonerating himself and it sends the message that shooting someone on the street without apparent cause is going to presumptively make you a criminal, I'm ok with that.You don't want to be locked up? Don't shoot people on the street.

Since he hasn't gone anywhere and no charges have been dealt it's pretty clear the police already made the right decision. You can argue otherwise, but the facts here are definitely against you.If he ends up being guilty he will spend enough time in prison to make up for any 4-hour symbolic gesture your racial hang-ups may have demanded.

To say nothing about his conclusion that people who call 911 first then shoot someone must have done something wrong. Common sense should lead one to believe that people who intended to break the law wouldn't alert the police first.

 

[jonessed]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

There isn't, but he's going to have a good reason for getting out of the car in the first place. "He told me to go #### myself" isn't a good reason. Was the gun concealed? Did the kid see the guy come at him with a gun on his hip and feel he had to defend himself? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where the guy had to get out of the car at all. If the kid was beating the windshield in with a bat, the police probably would've been reported already.

Why would he have to have a reason for getting out of his car outside of talking to the guy? Seems like the whole point of a neighborhood watch is to watch and/or talk to people who aren't from the neighborhood.What happened after that is what's important.

 

[Christo]

Do we know that he wasn't detained by the police for 4 hours?

You guys are acting like the first patrol car showed up, the cop surveyed the scene, Zimmerman said it was self defense and the cop let him walk away. Do you really think that's what happened? Or is it more likely several cars showed up. They questioned him. A supervisor showed up. He questioned him again. Maybe some homicide detectives showed up. They questioned him again. They listened to the 911 call. They listened to the witness. They decided he wasn't a danger to others so they let him go home.

According to someone's post above, since that night Zimmerman has given three statements. As far as I know he hasn't shot anyone else. And he apparently hasn't fled the jurisdiction. So maybe, just maybe, the cops' decision to not arrest him on the spot wasn't so outlandish.

You should use this for your avatar.I'm not getting into long, involved hypotheticals on what you think everyone else thinks happened versus the hypothetical way that you think that it went down.

Of course not. It would require you to examine your beliefs.

 

[jonessed]

Since he hasn't gone anywhere and no charges have been dealt it's pretty clear the police already made the right decision. You can argue otherwise, but the facts here are definitely against you.

If he ends up being guilty he will spend enough time in prison to make up for any 4-hour symbolic gesture your racial hang-ups may have demanded.

How is what clear? And how do the absence of charges as of right now support that?

Because he would have been let go anyway. They clearly don't have enough evidence for a charge yet. What good would an arrest have done outside of satisfy your need of symbolism?

 

[Guest]

Since he hasn't gone anywhere and no charges have been dealt it's pretty clear the police already made the right decision. You can argue otherwise, but the facts here are definitely against you.

If he ends up being guilty he will spend enough time in prison to make up for any 4-hour symbolic gesture your racial hang-ups may have demanded.

How is what clear? And how do the absence of charges as of right now support that?

Because he would have been let go anyway. They clearly don't have enough evidence for a charge yet. What good would an arrest have done outside of satisfy your need of symbolism?

I once had a professor who said beware the use of the terms "clearly" and "obviously" because when it precedes something, what follows is neither.That rule applies here.

 

[Guest]

Do we know that he wasn't detained by the police for 4 hours?

You guys are acting like the first patrol car showed up, the cop surveyed the scene, Zimmerman said it was self defense and the cop let him walk away. Do you really think that's what happened? Or is it more likely several cars showed up. They questioned him. A supervisor showed up. He questioned him again. Maybe some homicide detectives showed up. They questioned him again. They listened to the 911 call. They listened to the witness. They decided he wasn't a danger to others so they let him go home.

According to someone's post above, since that night Zimmerman has given three statements. As far as I know he hasn't shot anyone else. And he apparently hasn't fled the jurisdiction. So maybe, just maybe, the cops' decision to not arrest him on the spot wasn't so outlandish.

You should use this for your avatar.I'm not getting into long, involved hypotheticals on what you think everyone else thinks happened versus the hypothetical way that you think that it went down.

Of course not. It would require you to examine your beliefs.

The only thing you cause people to examine is why they engage you. Like War Games, the only winning move is not to play.Have a great weekend.

 

[Christo]

Do we know that he wasn't detained by the police for 4 hours?

You guys are acting like the first patrol car showed up, the cop surveyed the scene, Zimmerman said it was self defense and the cop let him walk away. Do you really think that's what happened? Or is it more likely several cars showed up. They questioned him. A supervisor showed up. He questioned him again. Maybe some homicide detectives showed up. They questioned him again. They listened to the 911 call. They listened to the witness. They decided he wasn't a danger to others so they let him go home.

According to someone's post above, since that night Zimmerman has given three statements. As far as I know he hasn't shot anyone else. And he apparently hasn't fled the jurisdiction. So maybe, just maybe, the cops' decision to not arrest him on the spot wasn't so outlandish.

You should use this for your avatar.I'm not getting into long, involved hypotheticals on what you think everyone else thinks happened versus the hypothetical way that you think that it went down.

Of course not. It would require you to examine your beliefs.

The only thing you cause people to examine is why they engage you. Like War Games, the only winning move is not to play.Have a great weekend.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I have enough cops friends that have said there job is to arrest anyone who apprears to have committed a crime and let the judge take it from there. I also have been arrested on the spot for something as trivial as an open container of beer, if a cop pulls up to a scene where someone is laying dead with a bullet in his chest and you have a guy standing over him holding a gun they dont let that person go home, they arrest him , book him then let a judge decide if hes to go free on bail. Thats how it works where im from. THATS MY ANSWER.

I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty reasonable.

The attitude he attributes to his cop friends isn't reality. They do have the discretion whether to arrest someone. I'd say a cop who chose to never exercise his discretion in favor of arrest 'em all and let the judge sort it out is not doing his job.

Dude, you`re just being an argumentative jerk...period. Watch an episode of cops and tell me what i said isnt reality, when they cuff someone for possesion of drugs or getting in a fight and the perp says ''i didnt do it '' or ''those arent my drugs'' they always tell the perp to ''tell it to the judge'' ...im guessing if someone killed someone you loved that was just walking home from the store and the cops let them just go home like all they did was shoplift or something you wouldnt be so stringent with your responses.

So your advice is to watch Cops.

could you possibly be any more annoying and smug? im sure you could now that i think about it.

 

[jonessed]

Since he hasn't gone anywhere and no charges have been dealt it's pretty clear the police already made the right decision. You can argue otherwise, but the facts here are definitely against you.

If he ends up being guilty he will spend enough time in prison to make up for any 4-hour symbolic gesture your racial hang-ups may have demanded.

How is what clear? And how do the absence of charges as of right now support that?

Because he would have been let go anyway. They clearly don't have enough evidence for a charge yet. What good would an arrest have done outside of satisfy your need of symbolism?

I once had a professor who said beware the use of the terms "clearly" and "obviously" because when it precedes something, what follows is neither.That rule applies here.

Criticizing a definitive statement with a definitive quote. How incredibly ironic. I am pretty confident that the lack of current charges means they currently lack the evidence for a charge. Of course, that could always change.

If you believe they are holding back an arrest warrant for some reason other than that please feel free to share your knowledge with the group.

 

[jomar]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

There isn't, but he's going to have a good reason for getting out of the car in the first place. "He told me to go #### myself" isn't a good reason. Was the gun concealed? Did the kid see the guy come at him with a gun on his hip and feel he had to defend himself? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where the guy had to get out of the car at all. If the kid was beating the windshield in with a bat, the police probably would've been reported already.

Why would he have to have a reason for getting out of his car outside of talking to the guy? Seems like the whole point of a neighborhood watch is to watch and/or talk to people who aren't from the neighborhood.What happened after that is what's important.

Because the cops told him to stay put and they'd handle it. I've never seen a neighborhood watch where people start questioning people in their neighborhood. And if it happened to me, I'd tell them to go #### themselves. There has been NO reason in any of the reports why he got out of his car. He knows the cops are on the way, why get out? Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

 

[Guest]

Calling out a definitive statement with a definitive quote. How incredibly ironic.

I am pretty confident that the lack of current charges means they currently lack the evidence for a charge. Of course, that could always change.

If you believe they are holding back an arrest warrant for some reason other than that please feel free to share your knowledge with the group.

So you think that when the guy calls 911, says he's going to do something about a guy on the sidewalk, there's gunshots, the guy on the street is dead, the guy who made the call is holding the gun, and when asked said, "Yes. I shot him." then they aren't charging for a lack of evidence?

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. It's up to the defendant to make it and prove it. There's no question, none, that the guy shot him. The only question is whether he can successfully say he was acting in self-defense. Lack of evidence? You couldn't be more wrong. Now why they aren't charging him? I'm not sure.

 

[jonessed]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

There isn't, but he's going to have a good reason for getting out of the car in the first place. "He told me to go #### myself" isn't a good reason. Was the gun concealed? Did the kid see the guy come at him with a gun on his hip and feel he had to defend himself? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where the guy had to get out of the car at all. If the kid was beating the windshield in with a bat, the police probably would've been reported already.

Why would he have to have a reason for getting out of his car outside of talking to the guy? Seems like the whole point of a neighborhood watch is to watch and/or talk to people who aren't from the neighborhood.What happened after that is what's important.

Because the cops told him to stay put and they'd handle it. I've never seen a neighborhood watch where people start questioning people in their neighborhood. And if it happened to me, I'd tell them to go #### themselves. There has been NO reason in any of the reports why he got out of his car. He knows the cops are on the way, why get out? Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

He shouldn't have gotten out of the car, but getting out of your car does not constitute an assault. Given the fact that there was a fight before the gun came out leads me to believe that the gun wasn't drawn when he got out. Nobody is going to charge someone with a gun and even if they did the witnesses would have heard the gun go off before the actual fight took place.

 

[jonessed]

Calling out a definitive statement with a definitive quote. How incredibly ironic.

I am pretty confident that the lack of current charges means they currently lack the evidence for a charge. Of course, that could always change.

If you believe they are holding back an arrest warrant for some reason other than that please feel free to share your knowledge with the group.

So you think that when the guy calls 911, says he's going to do something about a guy on the sidewalk, there's gunshots, the guy on the street is dead, the guy who made the call is holding the gun, and when asked said, "Yes. I shot him." then they aren't charging for a lack of evidence?

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. It's up to the defendant to make it and prove it. There's no question, none, that the guy shot him. The only question is whether he can successfully say he was acting in self-defense. Lack of evidence? You couldn't be more wrong. Now why they aren't charging him? I'm not sure.

Actually the system doesn't deem you guilty of murder and then force you to prove your innocence. Without charges the police can't hold someone without reason (i.e. flight risk) and they aren't going to charge anyone without a case. Like I said, your desire for a symbolic arrest should never trump due process. I'm sure if the police develop a case they will make an arrest and you can celebrate then (or at least until he gets released on bond).

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Calling out a definitive statement with a definitive quote. How incredibly ironic.

I am pretty confident that the lack of current charges means they currently lack the evidence for a charge. Of course, that could always change.

If you believe they are holding back an arrest warrant for some reason other than that please feel free to share your knowledge with the group.

So you think that when the guy calls 911, says he's going to do something about a guy on the sidewalk, there's gunshots, the guy on the street is dead, the guy who made the call is holding the gun, and when asked said, "Yes. I shot him." then they aren't charging for a lack of evidence?

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. It's up to the defendant to make it and prove it. There's no question, none, that the guy shot him. The only question is whether he can successfully say he was acting in self-defense. Lack of evidence? You couldn't be more wrong. Now why they aren't charging him? I'm not sure.

Actually the system doesn't deem you guilty of murder and then force you to prove your innocence. Without charges the police can't hold someone without reason (i.e. flight risk) and they aren't going to charge anyone without a case. Like I said, your desire for a symbolic arrest should never trump due process. I'm sure if the police develop a case they will make an arrest and you can celebrate then (or at least until he gets released on bond).

Really??? What country do YOU live in.I wish it worked that way

 

[Christo]

Calling out a definitive statement with a definitive quote. How incredibly ironic.

I am pretty confident that the lack of current charges means they currently lack the evidence for a charge. Of course, that could always change.

If you believe they are holding back an arrest warrant for some reason other than that please feel free to share your knowledge with the group.

So you think that when the guy calls 911, says he's going to do something about a guy on the sidewalk, there's gunshots, the guy on the street is dead, the guy who made the call is holding the gun, and when asked said, "Yes. I shot him." then they aren't charging for a lack of evidence?

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. It's up to the defendant to make it and prove it. There's no question, none, that the guy shot him. The only question is whether he can successfully say he was acting in self-defense. Lack of evidence? You couldn't be more wrong. Now why they aren't charging him? I'm not sure.

While you are correct that self-defense is an affirmative defense, that does not mean the police and prosecutors should ignore evidence in their possession which demonstrates that it may have been self-defense. Criminal law isn't a game of gotcha.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

He got out of the car thinking he was a tough guy and was going to detain some thug. He grabbed the kid and got his ### whooped. I just hope FL is a death penalty state.

 

[Christo]

Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

He got out of the car thinking he was a tough guy and was going to detain some thug. He grabbed the kid and got his ### whooped. I just hope FL is a death penalty state.

Link?

 

[jonessed]

Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

He got out of the car thinking he was a tough guy and was going to detain some thug. He grabbed the kid and got his ### whooped. I just hope FL is a death penalty state.

Link?

He has one up on all of us... crystal ball.

 

[jomar]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

There isn't, but he's going to have a good reason for getting out of the car in the first place. "He told me to go #### myself" isn't a good reason. Was the gun concealed? Did the kid see the guy come at him with a gun on his hip and feel he had to defend himself? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where the guy had to get out of the car at all. If the kid was beating the windshield in with a bat, the police probably would've been reported already.

Why would he have to have a reason for getting out of his car outside of talking to the guy? Seems like the whole point of a neighborhood watch is to watch and/or talk to people who aren't from the neighborhood.What happened after that is what's important.

Because the cops told him to stay put and they'd handle it. I've never seen a neighborhood watch where people start questioning people in their neighborhood. And if it happened to me, I'd tell them to go #### themselves. There has been NO reason in any of the reports why he got out of his car. He knows the cops are on the way, why get out? Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

He shouldn't have gotten out of the car, but getting out of your car does not constitute an assault. Given the fact that there was a fight before the gun came out leads me to believe that the gun wasn't drawn when he got out. Nobody is going to charge someone with a gun and even if they did the witnesses would have heard the gun go off before the actual fight took place.

The cops told him to stay put. He ignored them and ended up shooting an unarmed civilian. Normally, I'd think that'd piss off the cops and you'd lose the benefit of the doubt but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

[Christo]

Calling out a definitive statement with a definitive quote. How incredibly ironic.

I am pretty confident that the lack of current charges means they currently lack the evidence for a charge. Of course, that could always change.

If you believe they are holding back an arrest warrant for some reason other than that please feel free to share your knowledge with the group.

So you think that when the guy calls 911, says he's going to do something about a guy on the sidewalk, there's gunshots, the guy on the street is dead, the guy who made the call is holding the gun, and when asked said, "Yes. I shot him." then they aren't charging for a lack of evidence?

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. It's up to the defendant to make it and prove it. There's no question, none, that the guy shot him. The only question is whether he can successfully say he was acting in self-defense. Lack of evidence? You couldn't be more wrong. Now why they aren't charging him? I'm not sure.

Actually the system doesn't deem you guilty of murder and then force you to prove your innocence. Without charges the police can't hold someone without reason (i.e. flight risk) and they aren't going to charge anyone without a case. Like I said, your desire for a symbolic arrest should never trump due process. I'm sure if the police develop a case they will make an arrest and you can celebrate then (or at least until he gets released on bond).

Really??? What country do YOU live in.I wish it worked that way

 

[jonessed]

Calling out a definitive statement with a definitive quote. How incredibly ironic.

I am pretty confident that the lack of current charges means they currently lack the evidence for a charge. Of course, that could always change.

If you believe they are holding back an arrest warrant for some reason other than that please feel free to share your knowledge with the group.

So you think that when the guy calls 911, says he's going to do something about a guy on the sidewalk, there's gunshots, the guy on the street is dead, the guy who made the call is holding the gun, and when asked said, "Yes. I shot him." then they aren't charging for a lack of evidence?

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. It's up to the defendant to make it and prove it. There's no question, none, that the guy shot him. The only question is whether he can successfully say he was acting in self-defense. Lack of evidence? You couldn't be more wrong. Now why they aren't charging him? I'm not sure.

Actually the system doesn't deem you guilty of murder and then force you to prove your innocence. Without charges the police can't hold someone without reason (i.e. flight risk) and they aren't going to charge anyone without a case. Like I said, your desire for a symbolic arrest should never trump due process. I'm sure if the police develop a case they will make an arrest and you can celebrate then (or at least until he gets released on bond).

Really??? What country do YOU live in.I wish it worked that way

Seems like we are seeing it work right now. Despite the fact that you have deemed this guy guilty of murder and want to hold him in jail indefinitely the police are actually waiting for the investigation to conclude before charging and arresting him.I don't believe the system always works, but it's nice to see when it does.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

There isn't, but he's going to have a good reason for getting out of the car in the first place. "He told me to go #### myself" isn't a good reason. Was the gun concealed? Did the kid see the guy come at him with a gun on his hip and feel he had to defend himself? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where the guy had to get out of the car at all. If the kid was beating the windshield in with a bat, the police probably would've been reported already.

Why would he have to have a reason for getting out of his car outside of talking to the guy? Seems like the whole point of a neighborhood watch is to watch and/or talk to people who aren't from the neighborhood.What happened after that is what's important.

Because the cops told him to stay put and they'd handle it. I've never seen a neighborhood watch where people start questioning people in their neighborhood. And if it happened to me, I'd tell them to go #### themselves. There has been NO reason in any of the reports why he got out of his car. He knows the cops are on the way, why get out? Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

He shouldn't have gotten out of the car, but getting out of your car does not constitute an assault. Given the fact that there was a fight before the gun came out leads me to believe that the gun wasn't drawn when he got out. Nobody is going to charge someone with a gun and even if they did the witnesses would have heard the gun go off before the actual fight took place.

The cops told him to stay put. He ignored them and ended up shooting an unarmed civilian. Normally, I'd think that'd piss off the cops and you'd lose the benefit of the doubt but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

True story....I have a friend who was driving home one night and while driving thru an intersection a pickup truck that never stopped at the stop sign slammed into my friends car and killed the poor girl. When the cops arrived they noticed the guy that ran the stop sign was the son of one of there own local police, and that he was drunk. They then took him into a squad car and drove him away.the kid was never arrested for DUI and he basically got away with murder. Point being ANYTHING is possible and the way this shooting went down and the lack of action on the part of the cops leads me to believe that something smells wrong, i guess the family of the innocent dead teen will have to just wait to see what if anything happens to the ''alledged'' shooter.

 

[Billy Bats]

It will be two weeks tomorrow that this kid was murdered. They have the suspect, one eye witness and 911 tapes. What in the hell is taking the investigation so long? This smells terrible, and gets worse the longer the "investigation" goes.

 

[Christo]

The 911 call is going to be key. Any statements he made to the police are going to have to be corroborated by that call. If he told police he saw him vandalizing property but didn't mention that on the call, it's going to make him look like a liar. If he can't articulate a good reason to think he was suspicious other than "I never saw him in the neighborhood before" he's done. He already made himself look like confrontational with his "they always get away" comment to 911. Picking a fight with a teenager and getting your ### whooped isn't self defense to me unless he was beating him with a brick or something.

There's evidence that he started the fight? I glanced back, but haven't seen it. Can you link it up?

There isn't, but he's going to have a good reason for getting out of the car in the first place. "He told me to go #### myself" isn't a good reason. Was the gun concealed? Did the kid see the guy come at him with a gun on his hip and feel he had to defend himself? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where the guy had to get out of the car at all. If the kid was beating the windshield in with a bat, the police probably would've been reported already.

Why would he have to have a reason for getting out of his car outside of talking to the guy? Seems like the whole point of a neighborhood watch is to watch and/or talk to people who aren't from the neighborhood.What happened after that is what's important.

Because the cops told him to stay put and they'd handle it. I've never seen a neighborhood watch where people start questioning people in their neighborhood. And if it happened to me, I'd tell them to go #### themselves.

There has been NO reason in any of the reports why he got out of his car. He knows the cops are on the way, why get out? Does anyone think he gets out if he doesn't have a gun?

He shouldn't have gotten out of the car, but getting out of your car does not constitute an assault. Given the fact that there was a fight before the gun came out leads me to believe that the gun wasn't drawn when he got out. Nobody is going to charge someone with a gun and even if they did the witnesses would have heard the gun go off before the actual fight took place.

The cops told him to stay put. He ignored them and ended up shooting an unarmed civilian. Normally, I'd think that'd piss off the cops and you'd lose the benefit of the doubt but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

True story....I have a friend who was driving home one night and while driving thru an intersection a pickup truck that never stopped at the stop sign slammed into my friends car and killed the poor girl. When the cops arrived they noticed the guy that ran the stop sign was the son of one of there own local police, and that he was drunk. They then took him into a squad car and drove him away.the kid was never arrested for DUI and he basically got away with murder. Point being ANYTHING is possible and the way this shooting went down and the lack of action on the part of the cops leads me to believe that something smells wrong, i guess the family of the innocent dead teen will have to just wait to see what if anything happens to the ''alledged'' shooter.

Link?

 

[Christo]

It will be two weeks tomorrow that this kid was murdered. They have the suspect, one eye witness and 911 tapes. What in the hell is taking the investigation so long? This smells terrible, and gets worse the longer the "investigation" goes.

How do you know this?

 

[Billy Bats]

It will be two weeks tomorrow that this kid was murdered. They have the suspect, one eye witness and 911 tapes. What in the hell is taking the investigation so long? This smells terrible, and gets worse the longer the "investigation" goes.

How do you know this?

Its my opinion.

 

[GregR]

So? Unless the police are fearful he might run there is no reason to arrest him until they decide whether or not they are going to charge him.Nobody should be getting arrested because you demand a symbolic gesture based on racial preconceptions. That's your personal hang-up, not the judicial system's.

Sounds like you're the one with racial preconceptions. I'd say any time someone is walking down the street, a guy in a car calls 911 and says, "I can't wait for you. I gotta do something about this." and then shoots the guy walking down the street, there's enough reason to believe that the shooter did something wrong. And if he has to endure lock-up for a night before exonerating himself and it sends the message that shooting someone on the street without apparent cause is going to presumptively make you a criminal, I'm ok with that.You don't want to be locked up? Don't shoot people on the street.

Since he hasn't gone anywhere and no charges have been dealt it's pretty clear the police already made the right decision. You can argue otherwise, but the facts here are definitely against you.If he ends up being guilty he will spend enough time in prison to make up for any 4-hour symbolic gesture your racial hang-ups may have demanded.

To say nothing about his conclusion that people who call 911 first then shoot someone must have done something wrong. Common sense should lead one to believe that people who intended to break the law wouldn't alert the police first.

I agree about this aspect, at least in terms of giving the impression he didn't intend to do something illegal, so he isn't as much of a flight risk or risk to society while the investigation goes on. I don't think he needed to be arrested on the spot the way it went down.But I don't think, based on what we know so far, it helps Zimmerman's self-defense argument much. It's vastly trumped by his own statement suggesting his state of mind was frustration at the thought the kid might "get away". Which with what has been released so far, suggests that he'd be the more likely of the two to create a physical confrontation.Given that statement, a Zimmerman self-defense claim probably needs an eye witness or some other corroborating evidence like their words being caught on the 911 call.