Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (2 Viewers)

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

A webpage for the business, Kokopelli's Gym, describes it as "the most complete fight gym in the world."

He should ask for his money back

Several hundred pages ago I stated that I would have hard time not trusting that Zimmerman was legitimately afraid for his life even if I had also concluded that the fear in the situations seemed rather irrational and that a normal person would not share that fear. I believe that one or more of the lawyers here stated that this was enough to legitimize the firing of the gun. Assuming that "trained" means more than showing up once or twice, if I were a juror I'd be less inclined to cut Zimmerman this kind of slack. Not sure I'd be representative of an actual jury, or if the instructions given to me would change this.

 

[jwp]

Did Trayvon use bitcoin to purchase his Skittles/PCP?

 

[pantherclub]

Holy ####Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood WatchMember name PostsCarolina Hustler 1737Christo 1604BustedKnuckles 1130timschochet 1128jon_mx 747Chaos Commish 458SacramentoBob 373BigSteelThrill 368renesauz 333Neofight 311ATC1 281mad sweeney 281pantherclub 253

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Holy ####Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood WatchMember name PostsCarolina Hustler 1737Christo 1604BustedKnuckles 1130timschochet 1128jon_mx 747Chaos Commish 458SacramentoBob 373BigSteelThrill 368renesauz 333Neofight 311ATC1 281mad sweeney 281pantherclub 253

ive gotten carried away in spots haha

 

[pantherclub]

1600 and 1700 posts respectively on one ####### thread. Holy #### that is impressive

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Apparently you are not devoted to the cause unless you have cracked the 1k reply mark.

Nice to see the good guys are winning

 

[timschochet]

No fear JoJo. You may have not made that list (yet) but quality is worth just as much as quantity, and the quality of your posts is unique.

 

[Slapdash]

Apparently you are not devoted to the cause unless you have cracked the 1k reply mark.Nice to see the good guys are winning

What cause?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

No fear JoJo. You may have not made that list (yet) but quality is worth just as much as quantity, and the quality of your posts is unique.

Too many words CSITim©, you need to focus on quantity and emphasize the difference between black and white more.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

JoJo, read and brought to us another guys theory about "lean purple drank", and that sounded a little far fetched at first, but not impossible. Dxm, "Lean Drank", etc is real.. I had friends that drank Robitussin when we were in high school, And I've heard of the Arizona Tea, Cough syrup, and candy concoction before, I'd actually be surprised if you haven't... And On Trayvon's face book page, he and his friend had a discussion about it.

Tim you completely misrepresent what JoJo said, the cough syrup is the important part in making that "Lean Drank" concoction. The skittles and Tea are only the popular ingredients used to make it go down easier. No one ever said you could make PCP from skittles.. Nice meme though, seems to have caught on..

This gem on the other hand came directly from you...

Tim was carjacked = Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. Brilliant deduction..

Most ridiculous anecdotal argument I've ever heard...

 

[pantherclub]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

JoJo, read and brought to us another guys theory about "lean purple drank", and that sounded a little far fetched at first, but not impossible. Dxm, "Lean Drank", etc is real.. I had friends that drank Robitussin when we were in high school, And I've heard of the Arizona Tea, Cough syrup, and candy concoction before, I'd actually be surprised if you haven't... And On Trayvon's face book page, he and his friend had a discussion about it.

Tim you completely misrepresent what JoJo said, the cough syrup is the important part in making that "Lean Drank" concoction. The skittles and Tea are only the popular ingredients used to make it go down easier. No one ever said you could make PCP from skittles.. Nice meme though, seems to have caught on..

This gem on the other hand came directly from you...

Tim was carjacked = Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. Brilliant deduction..

Most ridiculous anecdotal argument I've ever heard...

Sweet Jesus

 

[Carolina Hustler]

TOAST

Yep, we know PC, we know....

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

JoJo, read and brought to us another guys theory about "lean purple drank", and that sounded a little far fetched at first, but not impossible. Dxm, "Lean Drank", etc is real.. I had friends that drank Robitussin when we were in high school, And I've heard of the Arizona Tea, Cough syrup, and candy concoction before, I'd actually be surprised if you haven't... And On Trayvon's face book page, he and his friend had a discussion about it.

Tim you completely misrepresent what JoJo said, the cough syrup is the important part in making that "Lean Drank" concoction. The skittles and Tea are only the popular ingredients used to make it go down easier. No one ever said you could make PCP from skittles.. Nice meme though, seems to have caught on..

This gem on the other hand came directly from you...

Tim was carjacked = Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. Brilliant deduction..

Most ridiculous anecdotal argument I've ever heard...

Sweet Jesus

I wonder if the trial will be as scatter shot as this thread

 

[pantherclub]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

JoJo, read and brought to us another guys theory about "lean purple drank", and that sounded a little far fetched at first, but not impossible. Dxm, "Lean Drank", etc is real.. I had friends that drank Robitussin when we were in high school, And I've heard of the Arizona Tea, Cough syrup, and candy concoction before, I'd actually be surprised if you haven't... And On Trayvon's face book page, he and his friend had a discussion about it.

Tim you completely misrepresent what JoJo said, the cough syrup is the important part in making that "Lean Drank" concoction. The skittles and Tea are only the popular ingredients used to make it go down easier. No one ever said you could make PCP from skittles.. Nice meme though, seems to have caught on..

This gem on the other hand came directly from you...

Tim was carjacked = Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. Brilliant deduction..

Most ridiculous anecdotal argument I've ever heard...

Sweet Jesus

I wonder if the trial will be as scatter shot as this thread

If there is a God it will be

 

[pantherclub]

TOAST

Yep, we know PC, we know....

Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch

Member name Posts Carolina Hustler

1739

Trust me dude, we get it as well.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

OH YEA!?!?! Well .. well.. well... YOU!!... Posted a bunch of times in this thread!!!

You're better off with breakfast foods little buddy..

 

[kentric]

New evidence: Zimmerman applied to become a cop but was rejected

SANFORD — Prosecutors have filed paperwork revealing that murder defendant George Zimmerman applied to become a police officer in a county near Washington, D.C. but was turned down.

His application and rejection letter are among the latest pieces of evidence the state has notified defense attorneys they may use at Zimmerman's trial, which begins Monday.

Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense. Prosecutors say he profiled the teenager, assumed Trayvon was about to commit a crime, followed and killed him.

The new list of evidence, filed Monday, says Zimmerman applied to become an officer in Prince William County, Md., but that appears to be an error. There is no Prince William County in Maryland, however, there is one in Virginia, and it's the site of Zimmerman's hometown:Manassas.

The paperwork does not spell out when Zimmerman applied for the job, but it is not the first indication that he had an interest in police work.

He was a student at Seminole State College, about to complete a two-year degree in criminal justice, at the time of the shooting.

He also took part in a citizens' academy, a program sponsored by the Seminole County Sheriff's Officethat allows people to become more familiar with police work.

On his 2008 application to join that program, he wrote, "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one."

The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

A webpage for the business, Kokopelli's Gym, describes it as "the most complete fight gym in the world."

He should ask for his money back

The prosecution is really reaching here. Guy may have applied to be a cop and took some boxing/kickboxing classes and that's supposed to have contributed to Z being the aggressor or resist being suckerpunched (from a defense perspective). Perhaps they're just trying to run up the defense's bill.

 

[kentric]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

Tim. Sometimes you make very cogent arguments, but then, you throw out gems like this.

So Z carries a gun and that turns him into a superhuman where he's aware of everything going on around him and he can do a bing-bing-bing Riccocet Rabbit move and pull his gun out instantaneously. Not only that, but after he pulls the gun he should be shoving it in Martin's face to scare Martin off. All because he's holding a gun. If Z was indeed jumped and punched and having his head beaten against the ground/sidewalk, I highly doubt his thoughts would be running to, "let me take out my gun and how it to Martin".

 

[jon_mx]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

Tim. Sometimes you make very cogent arguments, but then, you throw out gems like this.

So Z carries a gun and that turns him into a superhuman where he's aware of everything going on around him and he can do a bing-bing-bing Riccocet Rabbit move and pull his gun out instantaneously. Not only that, but after he pulls the gun he should be shoving it in Martin's face to scare Martin off. All because he's holding a gun. If Z was indeed jumped and punched and having his head beaten against the ground/sidewalk, I highly doubt his thoughts would be running to, "let me take out my gun and how it to Martin".

Tim is hellbent on being convinced that Zimmerman is a murderer so he can be on the right side of the discussion when he is having all his black friends over for dinner.

 

[timschochet]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

 

[Da Guru]

No fear JoJo. You may have not made that list (yet) but quality is worth just as much as quantity, and the quality of your posts is unique.

On another note..how is your "black" friend that was arrested at the restaurant while eating with his family doing?

 

[phrozen]

JoJo I fear for your sanity if Zimmerman is found guilty.

You yourself said you couldn't understand why Martin would assault Zimmerman so violently. If he was on something the equivalent of PCP, that wouldn't be enough to convince you? Is there any evidence to prove this? Outside of an unopened can of juice and unopened skittles, nope. If he is found guilty there is something seriously wrong with the jury and justice system.

I can't believe that you're seriously speculating that Martin bought Skittles in order to concoct PCP, and that this suggests to you that Martin might already have been on PCP. I mean do you have any clue at all how ludicrous you sound?

Anything is possible. Why didn't he open up the juice and take a sip on his walk home, why not open up the candy? Both of those are pretty odd. What was he motioning for behind the counter that the cashier at 7-11 denied him?

Apparently the answer to my question is no.

The more you look into Martin's past, the deleted facebook and twitter accounts, the more questions arise. It's pretty clear you don't care about the truth. You don't care that Zimmerman has black relatives or that he stood up for Sherman Ware, you only care about your ridiculous racial profiling viewpoint.

I don't see anywhere that Tim was throwing around the race card. I don't think the factor of race or Z confronting Martin because Z was predjudiced will go anywhere in this trial. Profiling appears to be evident, but that can be put in another bucket IMO.

this is rich tim's whole MO is the race card

 

[kentric]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

I don't see a rationale reason for Zimmerman to jump Martin. I will agree with you that there wasn't a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman either though.

 

[timschochet]

No fear JoJo. You may have not made that list (yet) but quality is worth just as much as quantity, and the quality of your posts is unique.

On another note..how is your "black" friend that was arrested at the restaurant while eating with his family doing?

I haven't seen him in several years. I hope he's doing well.

 

[kentric]

JoJo I fear for your sanity if Zimmerman is found guilty.

You yourself said you couldn't understand why Martin would assault Zimmerman so violently. If he was on something the equivalent of PCP, that wouldn't be enough to convince you? Is there any evidence to prove this? Outside of an unopened can of juice and unopened skittles, nope. If he is found guilty there is something seriously wrong with the jury and justice system.

I can't believe that you're seriously speculating that Martin bought Skittles in order to concoct PCP, and that this suggests to you that Martin might already have been on PCP. I mean do you have any clue at all how ludicrous you sound?

Anything is possible. Why didn't he open up the juice and take a sip on his walk home, why not open up the candy? Both of those are pretty odd. What was he motioning for behind the counter that the cashier at 7-11 denied him?

Apparently the answer to my question is no.

The more you look into Martin's past, the deleted facebook and twitter accounts, the more questions arise. It's pretty clear you don't care about the truth. You don't care that Zimmerman has black relatives or that he stood up for Sherman Ware, you only care about your ridiculous racial profiling viewpoint.

I don't see anywhere that Tim was throwing around the race card. I don't think the factor of race or Z confronting Martin because Z was predjudiced will go anywhere in this trial. Profiling appears to be evident, but that can be put in another bucket IMO.

this is rich tim's whole MO is the race card

I should have been clearer. By anywhere, I meant in the back in forth in the post, not in the thread. I concur that Tim has been rather clear on his views toward the race issue throughout the thread.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

kentric, on 05 Jun 2013 - 09:41, said:

BustedKnuckles, on 04 Jun 2013 - 18:59, said:

New evidence: Zimmerman applied to become a cop but was rejected

SANFORD — Prosecutors have filed paperwork revealing that murder defendant George Zimmerman applied to become a police officer in a county near Washington, D.C. but was turned down.

His application and rejection letter are among the latest pieces of evidence the state has notified defense attorneys they may use at Zimmerman's trial, which begins Monday.

Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense. Prosecutors say he profiled the teenager, assumed Trayvon was about to commit a crime, followed and killed him.

The new list of evidence, filed Monday, says Zimmerman applied to become an officer in Prince William County, Md., but that appears to be an error. There is no Prince William County in Maryland, however, there is one in Virginia, and it's the site of Zimmerman's hometown:Manassas.

The paperwork does not spell out when Zimmerman applied for the job, but it is not the first indication that he had an interest in police work.

He was a student at Seminole State College, about to complete a two-year degree in criminal justice, at the time of the shooting.

He also took part in a citizens' academy, a program sponsored by the Seminole County Sheriff's Officethat allows people to become more familiar with police work.

On his 2008 application to join that program, he wrote, "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one."

The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

A webpage for the business, Kokopelli's Gym, describes it as "the most complete fight gym in the world."

He should ask for his money back

The prosecution is really reaching here. Guy may have applied to be a cop and took some boxing/kickboxing classes and that's supposed to have contributed to Z being the aggressor or resist being suckerpunched (from a defense perspective). Perhaps they're just trying to run up the defense's bill.

Kickboxing doesn't help much when your aggressor breaks your nose on his first punch and then has you pinned to the ground while he is whaling your head into the pavement. The prosecution is really reaching for anything they can cling on to here. I doubt it would be admissible as evidence in opening statements just like Martin's past is barred they would have to make a case during the trial to be able to bring it up.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

If anything it supports that Zimmerman was caught off guard, since if he was armed, why did he allow himself to be brought to the ground into a compromising position?Zimmerman has 45 other calls to dispatch that never resulted in him being the aggressor, why would he all of sudden change his MO and act violently towards Martin?

 

[kentric]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

If anything it supports that Zimmerman was caught off guard, since if he was armed, why did he allow himself to be brought to the ground into a compromising position?Zimmerman has 45 other calls to dispatch that never resulted in him being the aggressor, why would he all of sudden change his MO and act violently towards Martin?

From a "devil's advocate" perspective, perhaps:

- there wasn't an opportunity for him to be aggressive;

- he attempted to confront someone but they ran away too quickly for him;

- he did confront someone and just didn't report it.

perhaps (my favorite), there were always too many witnesses about for him to be aggressive.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

If anything it supports that Zimmerman was caught off guard, since if he was armed, why did he allow himself to be brought to the ground into a compromising position?Zimmerman has 45 other calls to dispatch that never resulted in him being the aggressor, why would he all of sudden change his MO and act violently towards Martin?

From a "devil's advocate" perspective, perhaps:- there wasn't an opportunity for him to be aggressive; so he always wanted to, but the opportunity did not present itself?

- he attempted to confront someone but they ran away too quickly for him; lol, define "confront", in the context of this incident, "confront" would have to mean throw a punch or a kick (?)

- he did confront someone and just didn't report it. so he only called dispatch 45 times when he didn't confront someone, by that logic he didn't confront Martin

perhaps (my favorite), there were always too many witnesses about for him to be aggressive. I'm not buying it

I understand what you are doing, but the prosecution is going to have to do a helluva lot better than any of those scenarios and unless something stands out about this particular incident will be impossible to prove.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

Tim. Sometimes you make very cogent arguments, but then, you throw out gems like this.

So Z carries a gun and that turns him into a superhuman where he's aware of everything going on around him and he can do a bing-bing-bing Riccocet Rabbit move and pull his gun out instantaneously. Not only that, but after he pulls the gun he should be shoving it in Martin's face to scare Martin off. All because he's holding a gun. If Z was indeed jumped and punched and having his head beaten against the ground/sidewalk, I highly doubt his thoughts would be running to, "let me take out my gun and how it to Martin".

Tim is hellbent on being convinced that Zimmerman is a murderer so he can be on the right side of the discussion when he is having all his black friends over for dinner.

 

[kentric]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

If anything it supports that Zimmerman was caught off guard, since if he was armed, why did he allow himself to be brought to the ground into a compromising position?Zimmerman has 45 other calls to dispatch that never resulted in him being the aggressor, why would he all of sudden change his MO and act violently towards Martin?

From a "devil's advocate" perspective, perhaps:- there wasn't an opportunity for him to be aggressive; so he always wanted to, but the opportunity did not present itself?

- he attempted to confront someone but they ran away too quickly for him; lol, define "confront", in the context of this incident, "confront" would have to mean throw a punch or a kick (?)

- he did confront someone and just didn't report it. so he only called dispatch 45 times when he didn't confront someone, by that logic he didn't confront Martin

perhaps (my favorite), there were always too many witnesses about for him to be aggressive. I'm not buying it

I understand what you are doing, but the prosecution is going to have to do a helluva lot better than any of those scenarios and unless something stands out about this particular incident will be impossible to prove.

I'm glad you took note of the devil's advocate nature of my post. I believe that the history of Z's calls is definately a postive for the defence. The last comment about witnesses isn't something you should buy, I just threw it out there for its ludicrousness.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad@$$/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

 

[Carolina Hustler]

No fear JoJo. You may have not made that list (yet) but quality is worth just as much as quantity, and the quality of your posts is unique.

On another note..how is your "black" friend that was arrested at the restaurant while eating with his family doing?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

I don't see a rationale reason for Zimmerman to jump Martin. I will agree with you that there wasn't a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman either though.

People are attacked for no reason all the time.. You can get punched for standing on or walking down the wrong street, much less for following/profiling/hassling someone..

With all of the talk about Homeless people getting beat up for sport, I would have figured this was understood already.. There didn't need to be a rational reason..

 

[jon_mx]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

I don't see a rationale reason for Zimmerman to jump Martin. I will agree with you that there wasn't a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman either though.

Zimmerman would have to be bat-### crazy to get into a hand to hand struggle while carrying a gun. If you are going to make a rationale judgement on who iniated the physical fight, logic says it was not Zimmerman. But Tim's argument is based on his own emotional involvement.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

I don't see a rationale reason for Zimmerman to jump Martin. I will agree with you that there wasn't a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman either though.

Zimmerman would have to be bat-### crazy to get into a hand to hand struggle while carrying a gun. If you are going to make a rationale judgement on who iniated the physical fight, logic says it was not Zimmerman. But Tim's argument is based on his own emotional involvement.

Tim's argument is that one day he was carjacked so in conclusion Zimmerman has

when carrying a gun..

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

I'm going to call in this suspicious activity and THEN I am going to chase him down and THEN I am going to assault him between these two rows of condos where there will be dozens of people within earshot.

I'm sure that's exactly what was going through Zimmerman's mind.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

or maybe, just maybe, he was telling the truth in the video walk-through.

He was walking back to his truck after trying to track down an address to give to dispatch.

Martin calls out to him asking what his problem is, Zimmerman sees him at this point about 10-12 yards away and turns around to Martin saying he doesn't have a problem and continues walking to his truck only to have Martin approach him and get into his personal space less than 3 feet and tell him "well you have a problem now, <smack>".

 

[SacramentoBob]

Anything new going on in here?

 

[timschochet]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Did Trayvon use bitcoin to purchase his Skittles/PCP?

Was he wearing pheromones at the time?

 

[jon_mx]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

I don't just accept Zimmerman's word. But if you are in a physical struggle with two people who don't know each other and a gun is in the middle, there is rationale reason to fear for your life. I really have no opinion if Zimmerman's story about a struggle for the gun is true. He in all likelihood could be full of crap, I still would have to go with accepting the self-defense argument.

 

[Slapdash]

Did Trayvon use bitcoin to purchase his Skittles/PCP?

Was he wearing pheromones at the time?

Jojo is into pheromones too?

 

[Bogeys]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

Why? If you concede he was sucker punched or even just took the first punch after they both put their fists up to fight and Trayvon was on top of him, if he doesn't actually take the gun out and shoot the kid, how exactly does the gun help him in that situation? If you have someone you don't know on top of you pounding your head on the pavement and you aren't sure if he will just stop without serious harm or death to you why wouldn't you shoot that person? That is the part I find confusing about the people that think Zimmerman is a murderer....with hindsight we can probably say he would have been fine if he just let Trayvon knock him out or whatever it would have been over, but how does Zimmerman know that in the heat of the moment?

Granted I have some problems with Zimmermans story, but unless there is some evidence I haven't seen yet and I admit most of my information has come from this thread and the links posted....yeah I know, most of the posters seem to have agendas....I don't see how he could be convicted of murder. Manslaughter at the most.

Oh, and to the folks that keep bringing race into this with absolutely no basis or evidence that I have seen to believe the Zimmerman is a racist or was profiling or would have acted any different if Trayvon had been a strange white kid...you are one of the problems with race relations in this country and are just as guilty of racial stereptyping as the people you are accusing IMO

 

[kentric]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

Tim. Why would you think that if Martin sucker-punched Z (which would have to be the case because we all know that if Z knew the punch was coming his gun-induced reflexes would have blocked the punch) and was beating the snot out of Z that Z would be calm enough to think about pulling his gun out and shoving it in Martin's face to scare him away. Fights don't go like that. When you get your head pounded against the ground, you're more than likely groggy and not fully aware. Also, if Zimmerman just wanted to off Martin, do you think he would have just fired once? Not to mention the fact that he was asking for help in holding Martin down after he shot Martin. That doesn't sound like the actions of someone looking to erase another person.

 

[kentric]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

I don't see a rationale reason for Zimmerman to jump Martin. I will agree with you that there wasn't a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman either though.

People are attacked for no reason all the time.. You can get punched for standing on or walking down the wrong street, much less for following/profiling/hassling someone..

With all of the talk about Homeless people getting beat up for sport, I would have figured this was understood already.. There didn't need to be a rational reason..

My point Hustler was made against Tim's. Tim indicated Trayvon had not reason to attack Zimmerman. I was just pointing out that Zimmerman had not reason to attack Martin. There is no rational reason to attack someone in that situation. Therefore, you can't really say that one or the other had more of a rationale for attacking.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

I don't see a rationale reason for Zimmerman to jump Martin. I will agree with you that there wasn't a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman either though.

People are attacked for no reason all the time.. You can get punched for standing on or walking down the wrong street, much less for following/profiling/hassling someone..

With all of the talk about Homeless people getting beat up for sport, I would have figured this was understood already.. There didn't need to be a rational reason..

My point Hustler was made against Tim's. Tim indicated Trayvon had not reason to attack Zimmerman. I was just pointing out that Zimmerman had not reason to attack Martin. There is no rational reason to attack someone in that situation. Therefore, you can't really say that one or the other had more of a rationale for attacking.

I see what you're saying.. I disagree though.. I think there is a scenario where either can be possible.

Trayvon could have been upset that he was being followed suspiciously by someone when he did nothing wrong, and punched Zimmerman for hassling him...

Zimmerman could have tried to restrain Trayvon. I know that's not really attacking, could warrant being attacked..

 

[kentric]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

I don't see a rationale reason for Zimmerman to jump Martin. I will agree with you that there wasn't a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman either though.

People are attacked for no reason all the time.. You can get punched for standing on or walking down the wrong street, much less for following/profiling/hassling someone..

With all of the talk about Homeless people getting beat up for sport, I would have figured this was understood already.. There didn't need to be a rational reason..

My point Hustler was made against Tim's. Tim indicated Trayvon had not reason to attack Zimmerman. I was just pointing out that Zimmerman had not reason to attack Martin. There is no rational reason to attack someone in that situation. Therefore, you can't really say that one or the other had more of a rationale for attacking.

I see what you're saying.. I disagree though.. I think there is a scenario where either can be possible.

Trayvon could have been upset that he was being followed suspiciously by someone when he did nothing wrong, and punched Zimmerman for hassling him...

Zimmerman could have tried to restrain Trayvon. I know that's not really attacking, could warrant being attacked..

No rational person would punch someone for just following them. Nor did Zimmerman have a valid case in restraining Trayvon. Just don't see either scenario as the norm. What happened was definately outside the box.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Martin: Yo, dude, why you following me?

Zimmerman: What are you doing here? We have had a few break ins lately. I called the cops.

Martin: Why did you call the cops, you racist fool?

Zimmerman:Who are you calling racist, thug?

Martin: You better get out of my face before I pop a cap in yor ###

Zimmerman: Are you high?

Martin: Maybe . .. you're lucky I don't have my gun and my hommies with me, now get out of my way [pushes Zimmerman]

Zimmerman: [pushes back]

Martin: [puts a beating on Zimmerman]

Zimmerman: [shoots Martin]

 

[timschochet]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

Tim. Why would you think that if Martin sucker-punched Z (which would have to be the case because we all know that if Z knew the punch was coming his gun-induced reflexes would have blocked the punch) and was beating the snot out of Z that Z would be calm enough to think about pulling his gun out and shoving it in Martin's face to scare him away. Fights don't go like that. When you get your head pounded against the ground, you're more than likely groggy and not fully aware. Also, if Zimmerman just wanted to off Martin, do you think he would have just fired once? Not to mention the fact that he was asking for help in holding Martin down after he shot Martin. That doesn't sound like the actions of someone looking to erase another person.

I've considered everything you've written before, plenty of times, and rejected them- until the bolded. I have to admit that the fact that Zimmerman only fired one shot doesn't fit into my scenario of Zimmerman being enraged. On the other hand, it doesn't fit Zimmerman firing in self-defense either- if you're truly afraid for your life, and too groggy to think about it, why wouldn't you empty your gun? The one shot doesn't fit either scenario- it doesn't fit at all.

As I have written, I think Zimmerman is guilty of murder and I hope he gets convicted. But I'm also glad I'm not on the jury, since I have to acknowledge that there is enough reasonable doubt (based on what we know at this point) to acquit him. I do admit to getting carried away here in opposition to those who are actively rooting for Zimmerman to be acquitted and who are willing to take his story as gospel- these are typically socially conservative types who I believe are sick to death of hearing about racism in this country and are almost always on the side of the white guy in these types of situations. Sorry, but that's how I feel about it.