Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (5 Viewers)

[Jojo the circus boy]

Martin: Yo, dude, why you following me?

Zimmerman: What are you doing here? We have had a few break ins lately. I called the cops.

Martin: Why did you call the cops, you racist fool?

Zimmerman:Who are you calling racist, thug?

Martin: You better get out of my face before I pop a cap in yor ###

Zimmerman: Are you high?

Martin: Maybe . .. you're lucky I don't have my gun and my hommies with me, now get out of my way [pushes Zimmerman]

Zimmerman: [pushes back]

Martin: [puts a beating on Zimmerman]

Zimmerman: [shoots Martin]

Perhaps that happened. But I assume if it did we would have heard about it from Witness #8 who's story is full of holes according to the timeline:

The interview was conducted by Florida Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda. She says that Trayvon told her that a white man in a car was watching him from a car. He said that the man watching was on the phone. Trayvon said that he was going to start walking. Phone hung up and she called him back. He said the man was still watching him. He put his hoodie on because it was still raining. She told him to run to his dad’s house. He said that he would run. She heard Trayvon running and could hear the wind. Trayvon said that he lost the guy. Then, he told her the guy was coming closer to him. She heard Trayvon say “Why you following me for?” An old man said, “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.” Then, the phone hung up. She called him back two or three times. She states she has guilt about the situation.

I actually hope she takes the stand, that would be quality entertainment.

 

[timschochet]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

Why? If you concede he was sucker punched or even just took the first punch after they both put their fists up to fight and Trayvon was on top of him, if he doesn't actually take the gun out and shoot the kid, how exactly does the gun help him in that situation? If you have someone you don't know on top of you pounding your head on the pavement and you aren't sure if he will just stop without serious harm or death to you why wouldn't you shoot that person? That is the part I find confusing about the people that think Zimmerman is a murderer....with hindsight we can probably say he would have been fine if he just let Trayvon knock him out or whatever it would have been over, but how does Zimmerman know that in the heat of the moment?

Granted I have some problems with Zimmermans story, but unless there is some evidence I haven't seen yet and I admit most of my information has come from this thread and the links posted....yeah I know, most of the posters seem to have agendas....I don't see how he could be convicted of murder. Manslaughter at the most.

Oh, and to the folks that keep bringing race into this with absolutely no basis or evidence that I have seen to believe the Zimmerman is a racist or was profiling or would have acted any different if Trayvon had been a strange white kid...you are one of the problems with race relations in this country and are just as guilty of racial stereptyping as the people you are accusing IMO

No. The main problem with race relations in this country are the people who angrily deny that racism continues to exist, that black youth are mistreated by the police forces of this country, and who instinctively take the side of the white guy whenever situations like this arise.

 

[jon_mx]

Tim, why do you hate the foundation of our legal system. You readily acknowledge there is plenty of reasonable doubt, but still want him convicted.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, why do you hate the foundation of our legal system. You readily acknowledge there is plenty of reasonable doubt, but still want him convicted.

I didn't say plenty of reasonable doubt. I disagree with that. I said, given what we know, there is enough reasonable doubt- maybe. I want to watch the trial.

For instance, look at witness#6 that JoJo just quoted. If she truly testifies and says that Trayvon said, "get off! get off!" during the struggle, that might help compel me to vote guilty.

To answer your question, I want him convicted because I think he's a murderer. I can't prove it, but I hope the prosecution can.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Martin: Yo, dude, why you following me?Zimmerman: What are you doing here? We have had a few break ins lately. I called the cops.Martin: Why did you call the cops, you racist fool?Zimmerman:Who are you calling racist, thug?Martin: You better get out of my face before I pop a cap in yor ###Zimmerman: Are you high?Martin: Maybe . .. you're lucky I don't have my gun and my hommies with me, now get out of my way [pushes Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [pushes back]Martin: [puts a beating on Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [shoots Martin]

Perhaps that happened. But I assume if it did we would have heard about it from Witness #8 who's story is full of holes according to the timeline:

>The interview was conducted by Florida Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda. She says that Trayvon told her that a white man in a car was watching him from a car. He said that the man watching was on the phone. Trayvon said that he was going to start walking. Phone hung up and she called him back. He said the man was still watching him. He put his hoodie on because it was still raining. She told him to run to his dad’s house. He said that he would run. She heard Trayvon running and could hear the wind. Trayvon said that he lost the guy. Then, he told her the guy was coming closer to him. She heard Trayvon say “Why you following me for?” An old man said, “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.” Then, the phone hung up. She called him back two or three times. She states she has guilt about the situation.

I actually hope she takes the stand, that would be quality entertainment.

Witness 8 is the girlfriend?

No bias there, right?

 

[jon_mx]

Tim, why do you hate the foundation of our legal system. You readily acknowledge there is plenty of reasonable doubt, but still want him convicted.

I didn't say plenty of reasonable doubt. I disagree with that. I said, given what we know, there is enough reasonable doubt- maybe. I want to watch the trial.

For instance, look at witness#6 that JoJo just quoted. If she truly testifies and says that Trayvon said, "get off! get off!" during the struggle, that might help compel me to vote guilty.

To answer your question, I want him convicted because I think he's a murderer. I can't prove it, but I hope the prosecution can.

So you accept the Martin side without adequate facts, but you are upset with those who accept Zimmerman's story. Why not hope for the truth to be revealed.

 

[moderated]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

JoJo, read and brought to us another guys theory about "lean purple drank", and that sounded a little far fetched at first, but not impossible. Dxm, "Lean Drank", etc is real.. I had friends that drank Robitussin when we were in high school, And I've heard of the Arizona Tea, Cough syrup, and candy concoction before, I'd actually be surprised if you haven't... And On Trayvon's face book page, he and his friend had a discussion about it.

Tim you completely misrepresent what JoJo said, the cough syrup is the important part in making that "Lean Drank" concoction. The skittles and Tea are only the popular ingredients used to make it go down easier. No one ever said you could make PCP from skittles.. Nice meme though, seems to have caught on..

This gem on the other hand came directly from you...

Tim was carjacked = Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. Brilliant deduction..

Most ridiculous anecdotal argument I've ever heard...

it's almost always made with Soda, specifically sprite, not iced tea. Also the candy used is jolly ranchers, i guess a gas station might not have jolly ranchers so someone could substitute skittles but nobody is using iced tea over sprite (which is in every convenience store)

The purple drink theory is the dumbest stretch i've heard in awhile.

 

[Slapdash]

Martin: Yo, dude, why you following me?Zimmerman: What are you doing here? We have had a few break ins lately. I called the cops.Martin: Why did you call the cops, you racist fool?Zimmerman:Who are you calling racist, thug?Martin: You better get out of my face before I pop a cap in yor ###Zimmerman: Are you high?Martin: Maybe . .. you're lucky I don't have my gun and my hommies with me, now get out of my way [pushes Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [pushes back]Martin: [puts a beating on Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [shoots Martin]

Perhaps that happened. But I assume if it did we would have heard about it from Witness #8 who's story is full of holes according to the timeline:>The interview was conducted by Florida Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda. She says that Trayvon told her that a white man in a car was watching him from a car. He said that the man watching was on the phone. Trayvon said that he was going to start walking. Phone hung up and she called him back. He said the man was still watching him. He put his hoodie on because it was still raining. She told him to run to his dad’s house. He said that he would run. She heard Trayvon running and could hear the wind. Trayvon said that he lost the guy. Then, he told her the guy was coming closer to him. She heard Trayvon say “Why you following me for?” An old man said, “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.” Then, the phone hung up. She called him back two or three times. She states she has guilt about the situation.<

/p>

I actually hope she takes the stand, that would be quality entertainment.Witness 8 is the girlfriend? No bias there, right? As biased as Zimmerman?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

So in your mind, carrying a gun precludes you for having a situation where you need to use it? He couldn't have been afraid enough to warrant using a gun, because he had a gun?

Your circular logic doesn't make much sense there and also leaves out a lot of possibilities..

 

[Sinn Fein]

Martin: Yo, dude, why you following me?Zimmerman: What are you doing here? We have had a few break ins lately. I called the cops.Martin: Why did you call the cops, you racist fool?Zimmerman:Who are you calling racist, thug?Martin: You better get out of my face before I pop a cap in yor ###Zimmerman: Are you high?Martin: Maybe . .. you're lucky I don't have my gun and my hommies with me, now get out of my way [pushes Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [pushes back]Martin: [puts a beating on Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [shoots Martin]

Perhaps that happened. But I assume if it did we would have heard about it from Witness #8 who's story is full of holes according to the timeline:<blockquote>

>The interview was conducted by Florida Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda. She says that Trayvon told her that a white man in a car was watching him from a car. He said that the man watching was on the phone. Trayvon said that he was going to start walking. Phone hung up and she called him back. He said the man was still watching him. He put his hoodie on because it was still raining. She told him to run to his dad’s house. He said that he would run. She heard Trayvon running and could hear the wind. Trayvon said that he lost the guy. Then, he told her the guy was coming closer to him. She heard Trayvon say “Why you following me for?” An old man said, “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.” Then, the phone hung up. She called him back two or three times. She states she has guilt about the situation.<

/p>

I actually hope she takes the stand, that would be quality entertainment.

Witness 8 is the girlfriend? No bias there, right?

As biased as Zimmerman?easily.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Martin: Yo, dude, why you following me?Zimmerman: What are you doing here? We have had a few break ins lately. I called the cops.Martin: Why did you call the cops, you racist fool?Zimmerman:Who are you calling racist, thug?Martin: You better get out of my face before I pop a cap in yor ###Zimmerman: Are you high?Martin: Maybe . .. you're lucky I don't have my gun and my hommies with me, now get out of my way [pushes Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [pushes back]Martin: [puts a beating on Zimmerman]Zimmerman: [shoots Martin]

Perhaps that happened. But I assume if it did we would have heard about it from Witness #8 who's story is full of holes according to the timeline:

>The interview was conducted by Florida Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda. She says that Trayvon told her that a white man in a car was watching him from a car. He said that the man watching was on the phone. Trayvon said that he was going to start walking. Phone hung up and she called him back. He said the man was still watching him. He put his hoodie on because it was still raining. She told him to run to his dad’s house. He said that he would run. She heard Trayvon running and could hear the wind. Trayvon said that he lost the guy. Then, he told her the guy was coming closer to him. She heard Trayvon say “Why you following me for?” An old man said, “What are you doing around here?” She called Trayvon’s name and he didn’t answer. She said someone bumped him, and she heard the phone drop. She could hear a little bit of sound. Trayvon was saying “Get off, get off.” Then, the phone hung up. She called him back two or three times. She states she has guilt about the situation.

I actually hope she takes the stand, that would be quality entertainment.

Witness 8 is the girlfriend? No bias there, right?

I think girlfriend is a bit of a stretch, IIRC when witness #8 was asked if they were dating her response was, "we was gettin there" or something similar.She's already lied on multiple occasions, first about her age then about being hospitalized as the reason why she could could not attend his funeral. Her deposition above does not match the timeline, they will have to get her to elaborate on exactly what was discussed when. I could see the text messages coming into play here to support/disprove her testimony.

 

[jwp]

Anything new going on in here?

No. Zimmerman has been eating well though.

 

[Todem]

So when is this going to trial?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.And that's why I think Zimmerman is full of crap. Whether he was surprised or not (that in itself seems highly implausible to me since he was following Martin and not the other way around) the idea that he would engage in a fight without immediately producing his gun, that he would then choose to fire his gun without first showing it to Martin, and most of all that he would be in fear for his life and screaming for help in such a situation all the while knowing he possessed a gun and his opponent did not- it's BS. It could not have gone down that way.

JoJo, read and brought to us another guys theory about "lean purple drank", and that sounded a little far fetched at first, but not impossible. Dxm, "Lean Drank", etc is real.. I had friends that drank Robitussin when we were in high school, And I've heard of the Arizona Tea, Cough syrup, and candy concoction before, I'd actually be surprised if you haven't... And On Trayvon's face book page, he and his friend had a discussion about it.

Tim you completely misrepresent what JoJo said, the cough syrup is the important part in making that "Lean Drank" concoction. The skittles and Tea are only the popular ingredients used to make it go down easier. No one ever said you could make PCP from skittles.. Nice meme though, seems to have caught on..

This gem on the other hand came directly from you...

Tim was carjacked = Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. Brilliant deduction..

Most ridiculous anecdotal argument I've ever heard...

it's almost always made with Soda, specifically sprite, not iced tea. Also the candy used is jolly ranchers, i guess a gas station might not have jolly ranchers so someone could substitute skittles but nobody is using iced tea over sprite (which is in every convenience store)

The purple drink theory is the dumbest stretch i've heard in awhile.

Doesn't matter if it's never made with anything other than sprite, which is not the case, maybe the skittles and Arizona Watermelon fruit juice cocktail were bought for innocent purposes. The whole point is that Trayvon had used "lean", and was actively seeking out ingredients to make some.. Maybe not that night when he went to the store, but he had and was on occasion as proven in the conversation with his friend on facebook when he asked for liquid codeine.

Maybe the article is a stretch trying to draw parallels between the Watermelon juice/skittles and "lean" "purple drank". But saying Trayvon used the concoction is not a stretch, he said he used it himself..

 

[Bogeys]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

Why? If you concede he was sucker punched or even just took the first punch after they both put their fists up to fight and Trayvon was on top of him, if he doesn't actually take the gun out and shoot the kid, how exactly does the gun help him in that situation? If you have someone you don't know on top of you pounding your head on the pavement and you aren't sure if he will just stop without serious harm or death to you why wouldn't you shoot that person? That is the part I find confusing about the people that think Zimmerman is a murderer....with hindsight we can probably say he would have been fine if he just let Trayvon knock him out or whatever it would have been over, but how does Zimmerman know that in the heat of the moment?

Granted I have some problems with Zimmermans story, but unless there is some evidence I haven't seen yet and I admit most of my information has come from this thread and the links posted....yeah I know, most of the posters seem to have agendas....I don't see how he could be convicted of murder. Manslaughter at the most.

Oh, and to the folks that keep bringing race into this with absolutely no basis or evidence that I have seen to believe the Zimmerman is a racist or was profiling or would have acted any different if Trayvon had been a strange white kid...you are one of the problems with race relations in this country and are just as guilty of racial stereptyping as the people you are accusing IMO

No. The main problem with race relations in this country are the people who angrily deny that racism continues to exist, that black youth are mistreated by the police forces of this country, and who instinctively take the side of the white guy whenever situations like this arise.

Disagree, I think they are both huge problems. The difference being when people like you look for racism and cry racism (wolf) constantly then people like me just roll eyes and ignore what you are saying. Am I right to have that attitude, probably not, but when people initially cry racism so much and then it turns out not to be about race (which seems to be the case in this sitution IMO) it just makes me less willing to pay attention. The people so willing to ascribe racist motives to people without evidence that the person is in any way racist hurt the perception of the general public when the charge is actually legitimate.

I don't disagree that young black males get profiled more, but I think young males in general are more profiled. I am not a person that sees profiling as that big of a problem though so that might be where we diverge so much on the issue. There is a point where profiling is wrong, but since I believe that point should be on a case by case basis nothing I think of the matter could ever become policy.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Let me give you another reason why I think Zimmerman is lying: after I was carjacked a few years back, a close friend of mine tried to convincer to buy a gun and carry it around; he has a CCW. I argued that it would not have prevented the carjack, and I'll never forget his response: "when you're carrying a gun you are more alert. You're less likely to be surprised, and the knowledge that you are armed is always with you." Though I didn't buy the gun, I understood his point and I believed him.

Was the man that carjacked you Latino and overweight? Why do you hate overweight Latinos?

 

[Lutherman2112]

So when is this going to trial?

Jury selection starts Monday.

 

[timschochet]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth.

Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened:

Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate.

And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away.

Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

Why? If you concede he was sucker punched or even just took the first punch after they both put their fists up to fight and Trayvon was on top of him, if he doesn't actually take the gun out and shoot the kid, how exactly does the gun help him in that situation? If you have someone you don't know on top of you pounding your head on the pavement and you aren't sure if he will just stop without serious harm or death to you why wouldn't you shoot that person? That is the part I find confusing about the people that think Zimmerman is a murderer....with hindsight we can probably say he would have been fine if he just let Trayvon knock him out or whatever it would have been over, but how does Zimmerman know that in the heat of the moment?

Granted I have some problems with Zimmermans story, but unless there is some evidence I haven't seen yet and I admit most of my information has come from this thread and the links posted....yeah I know, most of the posters seem to have agendas....I don't see how he could be convicted of murder. Manslaughter at the most.

Oh, and to the folks that keep bringing race into this with absolutely no basis or evidence that I have seen to believe the Zimmerman is a racist or was profiling or would have acted any different if Trayvon had been a strange white kid...you are one of the problems with race relations in this country and are just as guilty of racial stereptyping as the people you are accusing IMO

No. The main problem with race relations in this country are the people who angrily deny that racism continues to exist, that black youth are mistreated by the police forces of this country, and who instinctively take the side of the white guy whenever situations like this arise.

Disagree, I think they are both huge problems. The difference being when people like you look for racism and cry racism (wolf) constantly then people like me just roll eyes and ignore what you are saying. Am I right to have that attitude, probably not, but when people initially cry racism so much and then it turns out not to be about race (which seems to be the case in this sitution IMO) it just makes me less willing to pay attention. The people so willing to ascribe racist motives to people without evidence that the person is in any way racist hurt the perception of the general public when the charge is actually legitimate.

I don't disagree that young black males get profiled more, but I think young males in general are more profiled. I am not a person that sees profiling as that big of a problem though so that might be where we diverge so much on the issue. There is a point where profiling is wrong, but since I believe that point should be on a case by case basis nothing I think of the matter could ever become policy.

Fair enough Bogeys. We do disagree on this, but I respect your opinion and enjoy the intelligence of your posts.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad###/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

OR......

Treyvon feeling nervous and agitated that some dude in a truck is slowly following him stops and waits for the dude to drive past him ,which he does. Zimmy now parks and watches Trey as trey starts walking past the truck...both looking at each other.Trey picks up his pace ,zimmy says this guy is running (which he later changed to skipping) gets out of his truck and walking fast to close the gap ,loses sight of trey.Its a big community and the buildings are spread out pretty good.Trey decides to hide behind a corner and watch what this ''stranger who was following him both in a truck and now on foot,wants from him. Zimmy starts cautiously looking around even while talking to the police dispatcher. He then hangs up and moves his search even wider covering more ground.Trey sees this and at some point zimmy gets close to where trey is and trey steps out from the shadows and asks why are you following me. They start arguing (one witness stated they argued for a while and loudly) ,neither wanting to back away .It gets heated and someone lays a hand on the other.The argument turns physical ,both parties are scared and adrenalin kicks in. As they wrestle a few punches are thrown,treyvon having a clear advantage in height and reach is getting the better of zimmerman. He panics and pulls his gun.Now trey sees the gun and he ,fearing for his life ,tries to disarm zimmy,pushing zimms arms away and on top of him ,zimms head hit the sidewalk a couple of times during the fight which has turned into do or die fight as the gun is now in play...both are screaming at different points because both are in fear. At some point zimm gets the gun pointed at treys body and fires 1 shot and kills him instantly.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Anything new going on in here?

No. Zimmerman has been eating well though.

Everytime I see a recent picture of him he looks like a completely different guy.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad###/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

OR......

Treyvon feeling nervous and agitated that some dude in a truck is slowly following him stops and waits for the dude to drive past him ,which he does. Zimmy now parks and watches Trey as trey starts walking past the truck...both looking at each other.Trey picks up his pace ,zimmy says this guy is running (which he later changed to skipping) gets out of his truck and walking fast to close the gap ,loses sight of trey.Its a big community and the buildings are spread out pretty good.Trey decides to hide behind a corner and watch what this ''stranger who was following him both in a truck and now on foot,wants from him. Zimmy starts cautiously looking around even while talking to the police dispatcher. He then hangs up and moves his search even wider covering more ground.Trey sees this and at some point zimmy gets close to where trey is and trey steps out from the shadows and asks why are you following me. They start arguing (one witness stated they argued for a while and loudly) ,neither wanting to back away .It gets heated and someone lays a hand on the other.The argument turns physical ,both parties are scared and adrenalin kicks in. As they wrestle a few punches are thrown,treyvon having a clear advantage in height and reach is getting the better of zimmerman. He panics and pulls his gun.Now trey sees the gun and he ,fearing for his life ,tries to disarm zimmy,pushing zimms arms away and on top of him ,zimms head hit the sidewalk a couple of times during the fight which has turned into do or die fight as the gun is now in play...both are screaming at different points because both are in fear. At some point zimm gets the gun pointed at treys body and fires 1 shot and kills him instantly.

Timeline and forensics disagree with your fairy tale. I especially enjoyed your narrative of Zimmerman's head hitting the sidewalk a couple of times after he pulled his firearm.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Holy ####Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood WatchMember name PostsCarolina Hustler 1737Christo 1604BustedKnuckles 1130timschochet 1128jon_mx 747Chaos Commish 458SacramentoBob 373BigSteelThrill 368renesauz 333Neofight 311ATC1 281mad sweeney 281pantherclub 253

Something's wrong here. Every time I refresh the board Jojo has a post in here. How can he possibly be under 253?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad###/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

OR......

Treyvon feeling nervous and agitated that some dude in a truck is slowly following him stops and waits for the dude to drive past him ,which he does. Zimmy now parks and watches Trey as trey starts walking past the truck...both looking at each other.Trey picks up his pace ,zimmy says this guy is running (which he later changed to skipping) gets out of his truck and walking fast to close the gap ,loses sight of trey.Its a big community and the buildings are spread out pretty good.Trey decides to hide behind a corner and watch what this ''stranger who was following him both in a truck and now on foot,wants from him. Zimmy starts cautiously looking around even while talking to the police dispatcher. He then hangs up and moves his search even wider covering more ground.Trey sees this and at some point zimmy gets close to where trey is and trey steps out from the shadows and asks why are you following me. They start arguing (one witness stated they argued for a while and loudly) ,neither wanting to back away .It gets heated and someone lays a hand on the other.The argument turns physical ,both parties are scared and adrenalin kicks in. As they wrestle a few punches are thrown,treyvon having a clear advantage in height and reach is getting the better of zimmerman. He panics and pulls his gun.Now trey sees the gun and he ,fearing for his life ,tries to disarm zimmy,pushing zimms arms away and on top of him ,zimms head hit the sidewalk a couple of times during the fight which has turned into do or die fight as the gun is now in play...both are screaming at different points because both are in fear. At some point zimm gets the gun pointed at treys body and fires 1 shot and kills him instantly.

Timeline and forensics disagree with your fairy tale. I especially enjoyed your narrative of Zimmerman's head hitting the sidewalk a couple of times after he pulled his firearm.

Take care.......

 

[jon_mx]

Holy ####Who posted in: Florida boy killed by Neighborhood WatchMember name PostsCarolina Hustler 1737Christo 1604BustedKnuckles 1130timschochet 1128jon_mx 747Chaos Commish 458SacramentoBob 373BigSteelThrill 368renesauz 333Neofight 311ATC1 281mad sweeney 281pantherclub 253

Something's wrong here. Every time I refresh the board Jojo has a post in here. How can he possibly be under 253?

Maybe panther has jo Jo on ignore.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Apparently not dumb enough not to delete that swill he posts.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad###/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

OR......

Treyvon feeling nervous and agitated that some dude in a truck is slowly following him stops and waits for the dude to drive past him ,which he does. Zimmy now parks and watches Trey as trey starts walking past the truck...both looking at each other.Trey picks up his pace ,zimmy says this guy is running (which he later changed to skipping) gets out of his truck and walking fast to close the gap ,loses sight of trey.Its a big community and the buildings are spread out pretty good.Trey decides to hide behind a corner and watch what this ''stranger who was following him both in a truck and now on foot,wants from him. Zimmy starts cautiously looking around even while talking to the police dispatcher. He then hangs up and moves his search even wider covering more ground.Trey sees this and at some point zimmy gets close to where trey is and trey steps out from the shadows and asks why are you following me. They start arguing (one witness stated they argued for a while and loudly) ,neither wanting to back away .It gets heated and someone lays a hand on the other.The argument turns physical ,both parties are scared and adrenalin kicks in. As they wrestle a few punches are thrown,treyvon having a clear advantage in height and reach is getting the better of zimmerman. He panics and pulls his gun.Now trey sees the gun and he ,fearing for his life ,tries to disarm zimmy,pushing zimms arms away and on top of him ,zimms head hit the sidewalk a couple of times during the fight which has turned into do or die fight as the gun is now in play...both are screaming at different points because both are in fear. At some point zimm gets the gun pointed at treys body and fires 1 shot and kills him instantly.

Timeline and forensics disagree with your fairy tale. I especially enjoyed your narrative of Zimmerman's head hitting the sidewalk a couple of times after he pulled his firearm.

i know im gonna regret this but....lets see YOUR version of what YOU think went down...back it up with all your timeline and forensics you keep blathering on about

 

[pantherclub]

keep in mind JoJo and Hustler are the guys pumping the skittles/purple drink theory.

Let that sink in a bit

 

[BustedKnuckles]

keep in mind JoJo and Hustler are the guys pumping the skittles/purple drink theory.

Let that sink in a bit

well weed is the gateway drug to skittles and tea

 

[pittstownkiller]

Man you guys are like a broken record. Everytime you have to come up with a rationale for anything, you simply repeat Zimmerman's tale as if it were gospel. At this point, you guys are more convinced than he is that it's the truth. Jon, if you think my argument was based on emotion, then you missed the whole point. I say it is extremely unlikely for a guy like Zimmerman to be caught by surprise. Here's what I think happened: Martin discovered Zimmerman was following him and confronted Zimmerman. (I think you guys are correct on this part- the time element doesn't justify any other explanation, or else Martin would have gone straight home.) At that point, a fight ensued. We'll never know who threw the first punch, and I say it doesn't matter. For the purposes of this discussion I will assume that Martin threw the first punch. And I will also assume that Zimmerman was losing the fight. Maybe even at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman; that takes care of the witness if his testimony is really accurate. And here's where we diverge. Zimmerman claims he feared for his life, took out his gun, and shot Martin point blank- a justified killing. And you guys just accept that. I say there's no way Zimmerman, armed with a gun, feared for his life. So what happened? Zimmerman was losing the fight to some young kid, got pissed off, and murdered him. He knew from the beginning of the fight that he had the power to do so. But he probably wanted to prove his "toughness" first. Wasn't working, so he got enraged and shot him. Why? Because in his mind, these ####ers always get away. Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, frustrated, with anger issues. He racially profiled this kid, followed him, and when confronted, murdered him. He deserves to go down and I hope he does.

Typical Tim logic: Zimmerman could not fear for his life, because he was carrying a gun which could prevent him from being killed, but if he uses that gun to prevent himself from being killed he is a murderer.

 

[pantherclub]

keep in mind JoJo and Hustler are the guys pumping the skittles/purple drink theory.

Let that sink in a bit

well weed is the gateway drug to skittles and tea

true, and weed much like PCP makes a young black youth extremely violent

 

[Carolina Hustler]

keep in mind JoJo and Hustler are the guys pumping the skittles/purple drink theory.

Let that sink in a bit

Actually you got that wrong.. But hey, whats new...

TOAST!!

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad###/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

OR......

Treyvon feeling nervous and agitated that some dude in a truck is slowly following him stops and waits for the dude to drive past him ,which he does. Zimmy now parks and watches Trey as trey starts walking past the truck...both looking at each other.Trey picks up his pace ,zimmy says this guy is running (which he later changed to skipping) gets out of his truck and walking fast to close the gap ,loses sight of trey.Its a big community and the buildings are spread out pretty good.Trey decides to hide behind a corner and watch what this ''stranger who was following him both in a truck and now on foot,wants from him. Zimmy starts cautiously looking around even while talking to the police dispatcher. He then hangs up and moves his search even wider covering more ground.Trey sees this and at some point zimmy gets close to where trey is and trey steps out from the shadows and asks why are you following me. They start arguing (one witness stated they argued for a while and loudly) ,neither wanting to back away .It gets heated and someone lays a hand on the other.The argument turns physical ,both parties are scared and adrenalin kicks in. As they wrestle a few punches are thrown,treyvon having a clear advantage in height and reach is getting the better of zimmerman. He panics and pulls his gun.Now trey sees the gun and he ,fearing for his life ,tries to disarm zimmy,pushing zimms arms away and on top of him ,zimms head hit the sidewalk a couple of times during the fight which has turned into do or die fight as the gun is now in play...both are screaming at different points because both are in fear. At some point zimm gets the gun pointed at treys body and fires 1 shot and kills him instantly.

Timeline and forensics disagree with your fairy tale. I especially enjoyed your narrative of Zimmerman's head hitting the sidewalk a couple of times after he pulled his firearm.

i know im gonna regret this but....lets see YOUR version of what YOU think went down...back it up with all your timeline and forensics you keep blathering on about

Have you skipped about 50 pages?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad###/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

OR......

Treyvon feeling nervous and agitated that some dude in a truck is slowly following him stops and waits for the dude to drive past him ,which he does. Zimmy now parks and watches Trey as trey starts walking past the truck...both looking at each other.Trey picks up his pace ,zimmy says this guy is running (which he later changed to skipping) gets out of his truck and walking fast to close the gap ,loses sight of trey.Its a big community and the buildings are spread out pretty good.Trey decides to hide behind a corner and watch what this ''stranger who was following him both in a truck and now on foot,wants from him. Zimmy starts cautiously looking around even while talking to the police dispatcher. He then hangs up and moves his search even wider covering more ground.Trey sees this and at some point zimmy gets close to where trey is and trey steps out from the shadows and asks why are you following me. They start arguing (one witness stated they argued for a while and loudly) ,neither wanting to back away .It gets heated and someone lays a hand on the other.The argument turns physical ,both parties are scared and adrenalin kicks in. As they wrestle a few punches are thrown,treyvon having a clear advantage in height and reach is getting the better of zimmerman. He panics and pulls his gun.Now trey sees the gun and he ,fearing for his life ,tries to disarm zimmy,pushing zimms arms away and on top of him ,zimms head hit the sidewalk a couple of times during the fight which has turned into do or die fight as the gun is now in play...both are screaming at different points because both are in fear. At some point zimm gets the gun pointed at treys body and fires 1 shot and kills him instantly.

I agree that it could have gone down that way.. But in your scenario Zimmerman is legally justified to shot..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I will concede that IF Zimmerman was jumped as he claims, then my theory does not count for much. But nobody has been able to offer a rational reason for Martin to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.

Could have gone down like this:

Trayvon hid behind some bushes after he ran around the corner of the building, Zimmerman looks down between buildings, doesn't see him, runs out to the next street to see if he can see him there, no dice..Zimmerman starts walking back and Trayvon comes out of hiding, confronts/surprises Zimmerman, Zimmerman went for his phone to call police again, at the same time Trayvon goes "why you following me for" (as per his girlfriend who was on the phone), then punches him in the face, Zimmerman goes down, Trayvon goes MMA style on him, Zimmerman is scared, panics and shots him..

Trayvon was angry because he felt like he was being racially profiled, and/or he was tired of taking crap off of white people, or just thinks of himself as a bad###/fightclub type and "you follow me, I teach you a lesson"....

OR......

Treyvon feeling nervous and agitated that some dude in a truck is slowly following him stops and waits for the dude to drive past him ,which he does. Zimmy now parks and watches Trey as trey starts walking past the truck...both looking at each other.Trey picks up his pace ,zimmy says this guy is running (which he later changed to skipping) gets out of his truck and walking fast to close the gap ,loses sight of trey.Its a big community and the buildings are spread out pretty good.Trey decides to hide behind a corner and watch what this ''stranger who was following him both in a truck and now on foot,wants from him. Zimmy starts cautiously looking around even while talking to the police dispatcher. He then hangs up and moves his search even wider covering more ground.Trey sees this and at some point zimmy gets close to where trey is and trey steps out from the shadows and asks why are you following me. They start arguing (one witness stated they argued for a while and loudly) ,neither wanting to back away .It gets heated and someone lays a hand on the other.The argument turns physical ,both parties are scared and adrenalin kicks in. As they wrestle a few punches are thrown,treyvon having a clear advantage in height and reach is getting the better of zimmerman. He panics and pulls his gun.Now trey sees the gun and he ,fearing for his life ,tries to disarm zimmy,pushing zimms arms away and on top of him ,zimms head hit the sidewalk a couple of times during the fight which has turned into do or die fight as the gun is now in play...both are screaming at different points because both are in fear. At some point zimm gets the gun pointed at treys body and fires 1 shot and kills him instantly.

According to some of our friends the only person allowed to be in fear for his life was the guy with the gun.

Can you link us to a post here where someone implied this? I know I can can show you posts otherwise.. Nice straw man..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I agree that it could have gone down that way.. But in your scenario Zimmerman is legally justified to shot..

What?

If they were struggling over a gun, they both can justifiably claim they were in fear for their lives, at that point ether of them would have been justified in shooting the other..

Christo has already explain this.. Trayvon being afraid as well, if indeed he was, doesn't preclude Zimmerman from using his gun in self defense..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The difference is Trey would be struggling defensively because it was zimmy who pulled the gun out in the first place.Just because trey is trying to NOT get shot doesnt mean he wants to shoot zimmy....but with zimmy being the armed and trained of the 2 his intentions are more obvious

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Did Trayvon use bitcoin to purchase his Skittles/PCP?

Was he wearing pheromones at the time?

Did Trayvon use bitcoin to purchase his Skittles/PCP?

Was he wearing pheromones at the time?

Jojo is into pheromones too?

Is JoJo just dumb, or racist and dumb?

Apparently not dumb enough not to delete that swill he posts.

keep in mind JoJo and Hustler are the guys pumping the skittles/purple drink theory. Let that sink in a bit

All you kiddies just get out of school and got on IM?How cute.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The difference is Trey would be struggling defensively because it was zimmy who pulled the gun out in the first place.Just because trey is trying to NOT get shot doesnt mean he wants to shoot zimmy....but with zimmy being the armed and trained of the 2 his intentions are more obvious

This is purely a hypothetical discussion because we don't know that this happened.. But it doesn't matter if in Treyvon's head he was trying to defend himself.. All that matters in whats in Zimmerman's head. So if they were struggling over the gun, it is conceivable that Zimmerman thought "If I lose this gun he's gonna shoot me" and at that point, he is legally within his rights to defend himself..

 

[Gawain]

The difference is Trey would be struggling defensively because it was zimmy who pulled the gun out in the first place.Just because trey is trying to NOT get shot doesnt mean he wants to shoot zimmy....but with zimmy being the armed and trained of the 2 his intentions are more obvious

This is purely a hypothetical discussion because we don't know that this happened.. But it doesn't matter if in Treyvon's head he was trying to defend himself.. All that matters in whats in Zimmerman's head. So if they were struggling over the gun, it is conceivable that Zimmerman thought "If I lose this gun he's gonna shoot me" and at that point, he is legally within his rights to defend himself..

Close, but it has to be a reasonable belief.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The difference is Trey would be struggling defensively because it was zimmy who pulled the gun out in the first place.Just because trey is trying to NOT get shot doesnt mean he wants to shoot zimmy....but with zimmy being the armed and trained of the 2 his intentions are more obvious

This is purely a hypothetical discussion because we don't know that this happened.. But it doesn't matter if in Treyvon's head he was trying to defend himself.. All that matters in whats in Zimmerman's head. So if they were struggling over the gun, it is conceivable that Zimmerman thought "If I lose this gun he's gonna shoot me" and at that point, he is legally within his rights to defend himself..

Close, but it has to be a reasonable belief.

If you were wrestling someone over a gun, regardless of who pulled it first, you would be in fear of your life, you both would.. That's not unreasonable to believe..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The difference is Trey would be struggling defensively because it was zimmy who pulled the gun out in the first place.Just because trey is trying to NOT get shot doesnt mean he wants to shoot zimmy....but with zimmy being the armed and trained of the 2 his intentions are more obvious

This is purely a hypothetical discussion because we don't know that this happened.. But it doesn't matter if in Treyvon's head he was trying to defend himself.. All that matters in whats in Zimmerman's head. So if they were struggling over the gun, it is conceivable that Zimmerman thought "If I lose this gun he's gonna shoot me" and at that point, he is legally within his rights to defend himself..

Close, but it has to be a reasonable belief.

If you were wrestling someone over a gun, regardless of who pulled it first, you would be in fear of your life, you both would.. That's not unreasonable to believe..

but zimmy will be dealing with his peers (jury)and a reasonable person would say ,hey,i didnt pull the gun,HE did,i was just trying to stay alive by NOT letting him shoot me.The fact that there was no trace of treys DNA or prints on the gun could add leverage to that theory. He wasnt trying to get the gun,he was trying to do whatever he could to not get shot.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

The difference is Trey would be struggling defensively because it was zimmy who pulled the gun out in the first place.Just because trey is trying to NOT get shot doesnt mean he wants to shoot zimmy....but with zimmy being the armed and trained of the 2 his intentions are more obvious

This is purely a hypothetical discussion because we don't know that this happened.. But it doesn't matter if in Treyvon's head he was trying to defend himself.. All that matters in whats in Zimmerman's head. So if they were struggling over the gun, it is conceivable that Zimmerman thought "If I lose this gun he's gonna shoot me" and at that point, he is legally within his rights to defend himself..

Close, but it has to be a reasonable belief.

If you were wrestling someone over a gun, regardless of who pulled it first, you would be in fear of your life, you both would.. That's not unreasonable to believe..

but zimmy will be dealing with his peers (jury)and a reasonable person would say ,hey,i didnt pull the gun,HE did,i was just trying to stay alive by NOT letting him shoot me.The fact that there was no trace of treys DNA or prints on the gun could add leverage to that theory. He wasnt trying to get the gun,he was trying to do whatever he could to not get shot.

Who would have thought that rain could wash away dead skin cells left on a gun that otherwise could have been used via Touch DNA forensics?

Dexter! Blood Splatter! Toast!

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Not at all. The judge said Zimmerman was preparing to flee. He didn't say there is some circumstantial evidence that could indicate Zimmerman was preparing to flee. Those are two very different things. Combine that with the fact that the judge's opinion on the issue was unnecessary for the purpose of his order and it is reasonable to believe the judge has a bias against Zimmerman. He is human like the rest of us, so it's impossible for him not to formulate such opinions. But the fact that he was willing to tell the entire country about his opinion when it was not necessary brings into question his ability to treat Zimmerman fairly for the rest of the trial. A judge not only has the duty to treat the parties before him fairly, he has the duty to appear to be fair.

Link?

Bottom of page 6. If you haven't read it, you should. I thought the judge did the right thing revoking bond and doing so with an indignant beat down. O'Mara (incompetent) and Zimmerman (crooked) deserved it.But the judge seems almost unhinged in the 2nd bond order. He may want to recuse himself. He may deny the motion and let an appellate court remove him, but I can't imagine him staying with this case.

Even those who agree with everything Lester wrote should understand the impropriety of a judge having written some of it. Well, I guess common sense is high hopes for this crowd, so maybe not, but Lester is toast. I suspect he'll drink a toast to O'Mara for helping him get out of this mess.

I did not know what a CVSA test was until I read that.

Today, the Florida State Attorney’s Office released a version of Sanford Police Department’s original report in the Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman case, which includes additional information that was previously redacted in other versions. One highlight of this report is the results of the Computerized Voice Stressed Analysis (CVSA) test, which is basically a “lie detector” or polygraph test that George Zimmerman took on 2/27/2012.

During the test, Investigator W. Erwin asked George Zimmerman to answer two relevant questions regarding the night he killed Trayvon Martin:

ERWIN: Did you confront the guy you shot?

ZIMMERMAN: No.

ERWIN: Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

According to the results of the test, deception in Zimmerman’s answers was “not indicated.” In other words, he passed the “lie detector” test.

that Zimmerman passed

In before the..."add criminal mastermind, capable of beating lie detector tests to Zimmerman's resume"

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The difference is Trey would be struggling defensively because it was zimmy who pulled the gun out in the first place.Just because trey is trying to NOT get shot doesnt mean he wants to shoot zimmy....but with zimmy being the armed and trained of the 2 his intentions are more obvious

This is purely a hypothetical discussion because we don't know that this happened.. But it doesn't matter if in Treyvon's head he was trying to defend himself.. All that matters in whats in Zimmerman's head. So if they were struggling over the gun, it is conceivable that Zimmerman thought "If I lose this gun he's gonna shoot me" and at that point, he is legally within his rights to defend himself..

Close, but it has to be a reasonable belief.

If you were wrestling someone over a gun, regardless of who pulled it first, you would be in fear of your life, you both would.. That's not unreasonable to believe..

but zimmy will be dealing with his peers (jury)and a reasonable person would say ,hey,i didnt pull the gun,HE did,i was just trying to stay alive by NOT letting him shoot me.The fact that there was no trace of treys DNA or prints on the gun could add leverage to that theory. He wasnt trying to get the gun,he was trying to do whatever he could to not get shot.

We're talking about your hypothetical where they were wrestling over the gun... In which case the jury would be informed of the law and the defense would narrate for them how if 2 people were wrestling over a gun, both could be in fear for their lives.

You don't need someones DNA or fingerprints on the gun. The absence of DNA and fingerprints doesn't prove Treyvon never touched the gun..

To me, Treyvon didn't have to touch the gun, If Zimmerman was on the ground, and Treyvon was on top of him, beating him, it's reasonable to assume under those circumstances Zimmerman would have been afraid..

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

More evidence supporting Zimmerman's story:

Evidence Field

The location of the cartridge case supports the story by Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman shot Martin while standing, the case would be a yard or two away from the body. Either the point blank shot was made from the ground so the cartridge didn't get ejected far, or someone moved the cartridge or the body.

Additionally the location of the keys are only about 6 feet from the intersection where Zimmerman claimed the fight started.

Since the keys are on the ground away from where the body was found supports Zimmerman's story that he walking back to his truck with his keys in hand when Martin approached him.

 

[kentric]

keep in mind JoJo and Hustler are the guys pumping the skittles/purple drink theory.

Let that sink in a bit

well weed is the gateway drug to skittles and tea

water -> LMAO -> nose

not a good combination.

 

[kentric]

Not at all. The judge said Zimmerman was preparing to flee. He didn't say there is some circumstantial evidence that could indicate Zimmerman was preparing to flee. Those are two very different things. Combine that with the fact that the judge's opinion on the issue was unnecessary for the purpose of his order and it is reasonable to believe the judge has a bias against Zimmerman. He is human like the rest of us, so it's impossible for him not to formulate such opinions. But the fact that he was willing to tell the entire country about his opinion when it was not necessary brings into question his ability to treat Zimmerman fairly for the rest of the trial. A judge not only has the duty to treat the parties before him fairly, he has the duty to appear to be fair.

Link?

Bottom of page 6. If you haven't read it, you should. I thought the judge did the right thing revoking bond and doing so with an indignant beat down. O'Mara (incompetent) and Zimmerman (crooked) deserved it.But the judge seems almost unhinged in the 2nd bond order. He may want to recuse himself. He may deny the motion and let an appellate court remove him, but I can't imagine him staying with this case.

Even those who agree with everything Lester wrote should understand the impropriety of a judge having written some of it. Well, I guess common sense is high hopes for this crowd, so maybe not, but Lester is toast. I suspect he'll drink a toast to O'Mara for helping him get out of this mess.

I did not know what a CVSA test was until I read that.Today, the Florida State Attorney’s Office released a version of Sanford Police Department’s original report in the Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman case, which includes additional information that was previously redacted in other versions. One highlight of this report is the results of the Computerized Voice Stressed Analysis (CVSA) test, which is basically a “lie detector” or polygraph test that George Zimmerman took on 2/27/2012.

During the test, Investigator W. Erwin asked George Zimmerman to answer two relevant questions regarding the night he killed Trayvon Martin:

ERWIN: Did you confront the guy you shot?

ZIMMERMAN: No.

ERWIN: Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

According to the results of the test, deception in Zimmerman’s answers was “not indicated.” In other words, he passed the “lie detector”

test.

that Zimmerman passedIn before the..."add criminal mastermind, capable of beating lie detector tests to Zimmerman's resume"

You must be forgetting that Zimmerman was a gun carrier. Of course he could beat a lie detector test.

 

[kentric]

More evidence supporting Zimmerman's story:

Evidence Field

The location of the cartridge case supports the story by Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman shot Martin while standing, the case would be a yard or two away from the body. Either the point blank shot was made from the ground so the cartridge didn't get ejected far, or someone moved the cartridge or the body.

Additionally the location of the keys are only about 6 feet from the intersection where Zimmerman claimed the fight started.

Since the keys are on the ground away from where the body was found supports Zimmerman's story that he walking back to his truck with his keys in hand when Martin approached him.

That is one funny ### video. one of the two guys says that Treyvon went home to drop off his weed and then came back to check out Z. Goes on to say that he bought a "blunt" at the store.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

live stream

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

the lawyer on the stand is great, I believe he was the whistle blower that busted the prosecution for destroying evidence

Prosecution has nothing on him so far