Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Yenrub
- Start date
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
How about we start with ending the war on drugs so that the good jobs are found inside the school and not on the street?
I think we need to do something to reorganize where mass transit goes such that people "trapped" in places with no opportunity can get to jobs that are just a few miles a way, but I don't know how much this would work.
Then there is a little thing called Guaranteed Income which would mean you don't need to avoid bettering oneself to keep welfare benefits (and this means all need based welfare not just "welfare"). While the net effect on the raw numbers would likely be a wash, this would also strengthen families as you don't need to hide income by avoiding marriage to keep benefits. (The unexpected result higher divorce rates in one of the four major studies was essentially one the reasons this idea was killed off by its cheerleader in the 70s, but upon further research even being temporary the guaranteed income enabled those in bad relationships the freedom to get out.)
Then, sorry but we will still need to wait it out for a few generations as you don't just change culture destroyed over centuries with programs.
Zimmerman like everyone has character flaws. This racism charge is hollow. George expression was concerning people coming into the neighborhood and entering homes and robbing them. Nothing at all racist about expressing frustration over that.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
We don't need any evidence "against" Martin. He's not the one who was on trial. I don't have to think that Martin was uniquely evil or that Zimmerman is somehow good to reach the conclusion that Zimmerman should be found not guilty.No ####. What an dumb, oversimplified statement. The circumstances are what make it a crime or not. You can't distill that out.Two guys get into a fight. One ends up dead. The guy who lived isn't automatically guilty of a crime.Huh?
I don't understand why it's so hard for people to acknowledge that both parties behaved badly here. Zimmerman is a wannabe tough guy who followed Martin around. Martin decided to get in his face about it. This is exactly the kind of donk-on-donk confrontation that doesn't end well, especially when one of the donks is armed. It doesn't follow from that that the survivor committed a crime of any kind.
The only evidence against Trayvon is that he was winning a fistfight against a guy who had been following him in the dark for no reason.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Based on this juror's interview on Anderson cooper, pretty much 100% if the jury instruction on aggressor and duty to retreat were there he's found guilty of manslaughter.
Last edited by a moderator:
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Especially when black men were the ones who were burglarizing the neighborhood. He was criminal profiling because of the recent events in his area. The FBI has entire teams of criminal profilers who do just that, are they racist or just trying to stop a criminal?Zimmerman like everyone has character flaws. This racism charge is hollow. George expression was concerning people coming into the neighborhood and entering homes and robbing them. Nothing at all racist about expressing frustration over that.
Zimmerman did not even point out the kids race, he had to be ask. A racist would have made that an important point in the phone calls. Zimmerman seemed oblivious to the kids race, he was just concerned a strange kid was wandering the nieghborhood in the rain acting strange. Zimmerman may be guilty of being over-zealous in his neighborhood watch, but not racist.Especially when black men were the ones who were burglarizing the neighborhood. He was criminal profiling because of the recent events in his area. The FBI has entire teams of criminal profilers who do just that, are they racist or just trying to stop a criminal?Zimmerman like everyone has character flaws. This racism charge is hollow. George expression was concerning people coming into the neighborhood and entering homes and robbing them. Nothing at all racist about expressing frustration over that.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Agreed. Just backing up the fact that he would have been justified even If he was certain of the color of TMs skin. I'm on the side that both parties did things wrong that night and it ended up with an untimely death of a kid.Zimmerman did not even point out the kids race, he had to be ask. A racist would have made that an important point in the phone calls. Zimmerman seemed oblivious to the kids race, he was just concerned a strange kid was wandering the nieghborhood in the rain acting strange. Zimmerman may be guilty of being over-zealous in his neighborhood watch, but not racist.Especially when black men were the ones who were burglarizing the neighborhood. He was criminal profiling because of the recent events in his area. The FBI has entire teams of criminal profilers who do just that, are they racist or just trying to stop a criminal?Zimmerman like everyone has character flaws. This racism charge is hollow. George expression was concerning people coming into the neighborhood and entering homes and robbing them. Nothing at all racist about expressing frustration over that.
Last edited by a moderator:
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
It's all the networks and some TM supporters have to hang onto. Even though the only evidence of racist language came from Didi and her testimony about TM. StrangeZimmerman did not even point out the kids race, he had to be ask. A racist would have made that an important point in the phone calls. Zimmerman seemed oblivious to the kids race, he was just concerned a strange kid was wandering the nieghborhood in the rain acting strange. Zimmerman may be guilty of being over-zealous in his neighborhood watch, but not racist.Especially when black men were the ones who were burglarizing the neighborhood. He was criminal profiling because of the recent events in his area. The FBI has entire teams of criminal profilers who do just that, are they racist or just trying to stop a criminal?Zimmerman like everyone has character flaws. This racism charge is hollow. George expression was concerning people coming into the neighborhood and entering homes and robbing them. Nothing at all racist about expressing frustration over that.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
They caught the robbers associated with all 8 burglaries or are you saying the 3 they did catch were black?
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
This is April 2012, maybe you have something more recent-
Here's what police documents have to say about Taaffe's account of the burglaries in his neighborhood:
City officials posted police reports to the city website detailing eight burglary reports in the neighborhood in the 14 months prior to Martin's February 26 death.
In three of those incidents, black males were implicated by witnesses or arrests. A fourth incident was less clear.
A homeowner who reported that someone had broken into her home and had stolen a video game console referred police to a black man who had previously visited her home asking for her son.
Police do not list that man as a suspect in their report.
In the other four incidents, there were no witnesses or suspects, according to police reports
.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Oh, and they caught zero "robbers" as these were not robberies. (At least based on this info.)
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I've seen the schools in Camden and D.C. They're horrible. Buildings falling apart, no textbooks or 40 year old textbooks, etc. And you know what? Both cities have some of the highest funding per student in the country. Millions of dollars have been diverted from more wealthy areas in NJ to Camden for years and years due to the Abbot decision. So I'm not sure that simply increasing funding is the solution.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Yes, but 3/8 sounds better than 3/3, or possibly 4/4.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
where is the data for this? Did you hear it on talk radio with tim?
ETA: obviously already answered
Last edited by a moderator:
ArbyMelt
Footballguy
If you want teachers who give a crap then you need to advocate for the ability to fire poor teachers. Until that is done, why bother with any of the rest?
But some of the jury instructions were a result of stand your ground. So as much as i was chastised for bringing up SYG and supposedly not understanding it, the judge thought that parts of SYG were applicable enough to include jury instructions concerning it.
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet has a massive case of tunnel vision on a few topics. It's so bad that he doesn't even realize he's doing it.
* Illegal immigration
* "Gun nuts"
* Tea Party
* Racism
He's inherently incapable of rational discussion on these issues because he cannot get over his preconceived notions. On many other topics he's quite thoughtful, rational, and perfectly willing to consider varied viewpoints and facts.
Worm
slimy ninja
Wasn't that specific testimony/question stricken? Goes to show how much "striking" something really matters to a jury. You can't "unhear" something.
ArbyMelt
Footballguy
The wrong thread for this, but here is what has happened when "throwing" money at education
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2013/04/18/education-blob-strikes-back-9pm-et-fbn
Don't think I agree with any of those, actually. He's pretty knowledgeable about Germany and Hitler during that time period. He's pretty open to all viewpoints concerning climate change as well, in my experience. I don't think I've ever read him say anything that anyone else wouldn't say about Fox News.
I believe that is correct. It was a brilliant move by the defense to end the day on that comment.
FoxNews is as credible as any of the news sources once you take your blinders off. If you don't believe that, this case is a prime example. If you just got your news from sources like HLN, CBS, MSNBC you would be out to lynch Zimmerman too. It was grossly distorted, as bad as anthing that FoxNews is accused of doing.
This. There are lots of ways to help inner city schools, but simply repeating all the things we've been doing for the last four decades won't work.
* Change the social safety net to a B.I.G. instead of the current welfare/food stamp/unemployment morass. Stop penalizing people for working.
* End the war on drugs. Stop penalizing people for doing something (marijuana) that's far less dangerous and addictive than things that are legal (cigarettes, alcohol).
* Give school management the ability to hire and fire whoever they want. Stop penalizing students (with a poor teacher) for a previous hiring mistake made by the school.
With regard to mass transit, I don't think there are any single solutions. Every city is different, and some have enormous and unique challenges. NYC, for instance, has the challenge of multiple boroughs separated by rivers with limited numbers of crossing points. While an affordable residential neighborhood in Queens may only be a few miles as the crow flies from a job in Manhattan, the transit time might easily be an hour. This isn't because the transit system is poorly designed, slow, or underfunded, but simply because of the geographic and population challenges of the city.
G
Guest
Guest
"The crowd, led by a man who looked something like Jesus, quickly became a volatile bunch, jumping on cars, burning flags and trashcans and throwing rocks at shop owners."
This can't be a good sign.
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
What I find interesting is at the time that statement was made, BDLR did not object and there was a good 20-30 seconds after Serino answers the question where there is just dead silence, almost as if MOM was waiting for an objection and it never came. So how did State get it stricken from the record?
The fact that the State waited a period of time to get the Judge to agree to strike it from the record, the fact that MOM ended his questioning on that very high note, and the fact that the court went into recess allowing those final words from Serino to resonate with the jury is why it stuck in their minds.
Last edited by a moderator:
VA703
Footballguy
pretty good article from Ted Nugent
http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/
http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
This won't go over well here:
"Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior."
He used the "V" word!
Spanky267
Footballguy
Tim, please stop spouting talking points. How much more do we need to spend on Education? The real issue is making sure that what we spend on education is actually going to the classroom for better teachers and student focused curriculums. Public school systems are full of waste. Republicans are attempting to cut a percentage of the SNAP program that is equal to the amount of waste and fraud in the program. I believe they want to reduce funding by 3-5%. I would think that if 3-5% of the SNAP program is waste, fraud and abuse then the Dept of Agriculture and the State agencies that administer this program should look into clamping down harder on such abuse. That way the people that need the assistance will continue to get it and the people who game the system will be pushed out of it.
Tim, what evidence do you have to support your view that George Zimmerman is a racist? You yourself said that if you were on the jury you would have had to acquit him. But now your saying he should be in jail for manslaughter. The known facts dont support such a conclusion. Only your suppositions do. I think this is why some people get frustrated with you. Your all over the map sir. You are consistent in your inconsistency.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
ArbyMelt
Footballguy
Since Tim is convinced GZ is a racist, here are some facts:
- GZ and a black friend opened up an insurance office in Florida
- He took a black girl to HS prom
- He has donated his time and tutored black kids
- He launched a campaign to help a homeless black man who was beaten up by a white kid
- He voted for Obama
http://www.examiner.com/article/ignored-by-media-zimmerman-voted-for-obama-tutored-black-kids
- GZ and a black friend opened up an insurance office in Florida
- He took a black girl to HS prom
- He has donated his time and tutored black kids
- He launched a campaign to help a homeless black man who was beaten up by a white kid
- He voted for Obama
http://www.examiner.com/article/ignored-by-media-zimmerman-voted-for-obama-tutored-black-kids
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yep. Plus, when the DOJ first had the FBI looking into this last year, the feds talked to like 40 people who know Zimmerman, and they couldn't find any evidence at all that Zimmerman was racist.
In other words, anyone who still thinks Zimmerman is a racist is either not paying attention or is race baiting.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, but you're overlooking tim's Spidey sense which tells him that Zimmerman is a racist. There's really no arguing with clairvoyance.
kentric
Footballguy
Looking over your shoulder every time you walk outside, worrying that your house can be torched at any minute, having people yell and threaten you. Not sure about you, but I find it difficult to see anyone wanting to be in his shoes.
Spanky267
Footballguy
Can you show me some of these urban schools? I'm not buying it. I went to urban schools and they certanly didnt look as you've described them.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
SYG didn't matter here, but I do agree that in other states he'd have had a harder path to not guilty. Things I noted listening to her interview:
Joke was not funny...fail
Dr for defense most credible (based on experience in war...aw inspiring)
Lead investigator "doing his job" (very credible)
Felt prosecution "wanted what they said to have happened to happen"
Laure (sp?) tape most significant
Thought the scream was Zimmerman because Zimmerman was beat up
Jeantel's testimony not credible, but felt sorry for her
Doesn't think "creepy ### cracker" is racial...more reflection of env they live in
Zimmerman's heart in the right place, but went above and beyond what he should have done based on prior events
Guilty of "not using good judgment"
Shouldn't have gotten out of the car
Dispatch egged him on
Every right to carry a gun
George consistent in his message
Doesn't know if Treyvon reached for gun but thought George thought he was reaching for it (ultimately didn't matter either way)
Thinks Treyvon threw first punch because of where flashlight and keys were at crime scene
Believes the aggressor roles changed. Zimmerman got in too deep (shouldn't have been there in the first place) but Treyvon decided to "one up" him, got mad and attacked
Animation in closing credible
Parents said whatever any parent would say cancelled each other out
whoever calling for help was important
Race wasn't a role...prior events did play a role (common belief to jury she believes..never discussed in deliberations)
Suspicious because he was cutting through houses, it was raining, he was looking in houses as he walked down the road. Didn't seem to have a purpose to where he was going. Acknowledges that was Zimmerman's rendition.
Zimmerman Over eager to help people. Not a negative...didn't buy wannabee cop angle
Zimmerman frustrated with prior activities more than anything. Learned a valuable lesson.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The FFA is a weird place, but I'm still pretty confident that nobody here is dumb enough to take a Ted Nugent column seriously.This won't go over well here:
"Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior."
He used the "V" word!
Spanky267
Footballguy
What then explains her inability to answer the questions asked of her. I had a severe lisp as a child and teenager. I sympathize on the word formation/enunciation front. But shes incoherent. Half of what she said in that interview made no sense what so ever. She tried to explain that "cracka" is not an epithet. I'm a native born Floridian. When blacks use it towards whites it is indeed an epithet in the same vein as when whites use the N-word toward blacks. It does not mean what she said it means. The Casey Anthony defense attorney was right in that at one time and among whites it does refer to native born Floridians and Georgians. But it has morphed in a sense in the opposite direction that the N-word has. Where once the term cracker was used as a source of pride it is now used to deride. The N-word seems to have traveled the opposite path.
