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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (2 Viewers)

ConnSKINS26 said:
I'm not offended that some of you can't just enjoy an awesome thing. Do you.
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I don't get that I can't enjoy it as well and notice something. I guess in looking at my agreement to the quote, it looks like leftcoastguy actually didn't enjoy it. I don't think I was clear that I loved the episode, but I noticed the change in feel from the ground battle to the clearly CGI aerial view. As I said, it wasn't bad, but I did notice the change.

Wun Wun did bother me a bit because I thought it was a bad way to end his run on the show, especially the arrow from Ramsay where it seemed like he was ignored until he killed Wun Wun. Personally, I would have loved to see him smashing through some of the shields and would have rather seen him smash through the gate, but die right away as he broke in.

Oh well, still loved the episode. Great to see Sansa not only tell Jon what he would screw up, but save the day and enjoy watching Ramsay die.

 
bostonfred said:
This is the theme of the whole show imo.  People dying left and right for all the stupid politics and so few true leaders.   There's only 6 armies left that aren't completely decimated - dorne, danny, the flower people, the priests, bravos, and the zombies.  And two of those were just lined up against each other in king's landing. 

Remember when stannis and tywin and all them were talking about armies of 30,000 or 40,000?  The battle of winterfell was 3000 vs. 6000 until a few hundred knights of the Vail came in. 
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I don't believe the priests are anything close to an army. Lots of poor people, but very few actual fighters. The Tyrells didn't have a huge force there and they could have taken all of them, likely only 100 or so at the max.

Also, how big of an army is Braavos? They lent Stannis a lot of men and they are all gone now. Is Braavos a huge city and that was just a small mercenary force?

 
bostonfred said:
The lannisters got decimated by the starks.  They had to ask the flower people for their army in case there was trouble with the priests
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That isn't what happened there. Jamie/Cersei/the council said that the King's army couldn't be the ones fighting with the high sparrow so they were going to look away while the Tyrell army marched in and saved Loras and Margaery. They weren't asking because they didn't have the man power, they asked so they could still look neutral. Lannisters did lose a lot of men to Rob Stark, but Jamie has a sizable army (I could have sworn they said 8000). I believe Tywin mentioned that they split the forces so Rob would beat only some of them and then through his bribing/betrayals they organized the red wedding to take Rob down.

 
bostonfred said:
The lannisters got decimated by the starks.  They had to ask the flower people for their army in case there was trouble with the priests
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That isn't what happened there. Jamie/Cersei/the council said that the King's army couldn't be the ones fighting with the high sparrow so they were going to look away while the Tyrell army marched in and saved Loras and Margaery. They weren't asking because they didn't have the man power, they asked so they could still look neutral. Lannisters did lose a lot of men to Rob Stark, but Jamie has a sizable army (I could have sworn they said 8000). I believe Tywin mentioned that they split the forces so Rob would beat only some of them and then through his bribing/betrayals they organized the red wedding to take Rob down.

 
packersfan said:
I was thinking Dany had the biggest army now but wasn't sure how big Jon's army was now with Vale added into the mix. 
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Jon's army was only around 2000 to start and that pile of dead people next to them had to have been over half of them. KOTV sure didn't seem like a big army.

 
I remember trying to figure out how big of a force The Vale had online, but I never found an exact number or any authoritative source. I believe the consensus was that they were roughly equal to or greater in power than the Starks at the start of the series (Remember, Lord Arryn was a big part of Robert's Rebellion and I'm fairly certain he trained Ned and Robert as squires).  

I also don't believe that we're supposed to interpret those armed men on the steps of the Sept as constituting the entire Faith Militant. In the books there's two orders, one that has knights and is similar to the Night's Watch (vows, often high born, etc.) and one comprising poor people who fight with clubs and axes and are quite numerous. Clearly the show did away with the fancier side, but we might be able to assume that the Faith Militant is quite numerous, still. And really, it should be. The High Sparrow is quite popular among the regular people of Westeros and all it takes to join the Faith Militant is to be a believer, wear a robe, and carry a basic weapon. There's no reason for them to limit their numbers. 

 
Chadstroma said:
The North is basically void of manpower. After the Five Kings War, the massacre at the Red Wedding and now the Battle of the Bastards. It has been bled badly.
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This is 100% true and what Littlefinger wanted. Now he may control the only real army left up north. Even the house that turned Jon down was beat up by the iron born.

Not sure why, but I have a feeling we may get a reverse red wedding for Frey. They showed it in the preview of Jamie going there and Frey looked way too happy. I wonder if Edmure brokered a deal to get Frey killed. No spoilers read, no book references (although from some posts in here we are well past that), just first thing that popped into my mind when Walder Frey looked really happy.

 
So how could the White Walkers conceivably get past the wall? They're just chilling in the North, right? Isn't there some sort of horn that could conceivably knock it down? OK back to Candy Crush.

 
stbugs said:
This is 100% true and what Littlefinger wanted. Now he may control the only real army left up north. Even the house that turned Jon down was beat up by the iron born.

Not sure why, but I have a feeling we may get a reverse red wedding for Frey. They showed it in the preview of Jamie going there and Frey looked way too happy. I wonder if Edmure brokered a deal to get Frey killed. No spoilers read, no book references (although from some posts in here we are well past that), just first thing that popped into my mind when Walder Frey looked really happy.
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:lol: the "happiness does not exist in Westeros" theory.

 
Just started listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History on podcast, the one about Ghengis Khan and his people.  The parallels to the Dothraki are stunning.  George Martin must have done an awesome amount of research. 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
So how could the White Walkers conceivably get past the wall? They're just chilling in the North, right? Isn't there some sort of horn that could conceivably knock it down? OK back to Candy Crush.
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It's gotta be that mark that Bran has that let them get into the cave.. right?

 
Arya is going to widen Walder Frey's smile imo 

would be cool to see her reunite with Nymeria too, but an assassin / wolf team doesn't really work.

 
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stbugs said:
This is 100% true and what Littlefinger wanted. Now he may control the only real army left up north. Even the house that turned Jon down was beat up by the iron born.
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Jon and Ramsey had about 8000 between them to start with. Say half those are casualties, but Jon is able to get the Manderlys who were mentioned a couple of times and a couple other notable houses to join up now that the Starks are in charge again. Maybe he can pull together 6000 or so, which isn't all that far off the 8000 the Lannisters have. The Vale should have more than either of those two armies, so if Jon/Sansa can bring them into the fold (unlikely with LF hanging around) they should still have a respectable force. 

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
Arya is going to widen Walder Frey's smile imo 

would be cool to see her reunite with Nymeria too, but an assassin / wolf team doesn't really work.
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At some point someone in the Stark family needs to get some revenge on a Stark family murder. I would be surprised if the entire series came and went and it didn't happen at all. Arya sure seems to be a probable candidate to get some revenge at some point for Ned's death, Robb's, her mom's or maybe all three.  

 
Randy literally said he had 6000 men and Jon had what,  half that? 

Then when he went in and his behind the doors he told his men that the stark army was dead and they said so is ours.   

Might have been a couple hundred starks coming in that door and I'm sure a lot of knights are still alive but it's not that big a force anymore 

 
The North - House Bolton, House Karstark, House Umber got their asses whupped in the Battle of the Bastards. The Boltons and the Karstarks might have been the only Northern Houses not decimated by the slaughter outside the Red Wedding......so if they were the top dogs in the North....they're done now.  Plus, all the Northern Houses took a hit on Robb's campaign even before that.  There's nothing much left in the North.

Dorne - Has stayed out of all of the fighting.  They have to be at full strength.

The Eyrie - Has remained neutral and out of all the fighting.  They have to be at full strength.

The Iron Islands - Those were raiding parties that took the North.  They might have taken some losses....but still have 200+ ships.  They're not bad off.

The Stormlands - ### whupped at the Blackwater.  Most of the remanants went North and got their asses whupped.  They're probably on par with the North.  

The Lannisters - Took hits against the North in Robb's campaign. Haven't really fought anyone else.  IIRC, Cersesi told the Tyrell Grandma they had the two biggest armies in Westeros. They still were able to send 8K to break the seige at Riverrun.

The Riverlands - The Tully's (and their loyal bannerman) took a hit against the Lannisters in the first two seasons (Remember they were fighting before Robb even got there) and then got busted again at the Red Wedding. The Frey's have some strength (there's a book quote that the Frey's have lost more men AFTER the Red Wedding than in Robb's campaign), but the Riverlands is probably devoid of any significant armies.

The Tyrells - Didn't get hurt much at Blackwater; haven't fought anyone else.  They're at full strength.

The Wildlings - Got their ### whupped at the Wall.  2K joined with Jon and took a hit.  

The NightsWatch - What.......50 guys?

Dany - 3 Dragons. The Dothraki Horde. Several Thousand Unsullied. A Merc group or two.  She's sitting pretty. 

 
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Thunderlips said:
The North - House Bolton, House Karstark, House Umber got their asses whupped in the Battle of the Bastards. The Boltons and the Karstarks might have been the only Northern Houses not decimated by the slaughter outside the Red Wedding......so if they were the top dogs in the North....they're done now.  Plus, all the Northern Houses took a hit on Robb's campaign even before that.  There's nothing much left in the North.

Dorne - Has stayed out of all of the fighting.  They have to be at full strength.

The Eyrie - Has remained neutral and out of all the fighting.  They have to be at full strength.

The Iron Islands - Those were raiding parties that took the North.  They might have taken some losses....but still have 200+ ships.  They're not bad off.

The Stormlands - ### whupped at the Blackwater.  Most of the remanants went North and got their asses whupped.  They're probably on par with the North.  

The Lannisters - Took hits against the North in Robb's campaign. Haven't really fought anyone else.  IIRC, Cersesi told the Tyrell Grandma they had the two biggest armies in Westeros. They still were able to send 8K to break the seige at Riverrun.

The Riverlands - The Tully's (and their loyal bannerman) took a hit against the Lannisters in the first two seasons (Remember they were fighting before Robb even got there) and then got busted again at the Red Wedding. The Frey's have some strength (there's a book quote that the Frey's have lost more men AFTER the Red Wedding than in Robb's campaign), but the Riverlands is probably devoid of any significant armies.

The Tyrells - Didn't get hurt much at Blackwater; haven't fought anyone else.  They're at full strength.

The Wildlings - Got their ### whupped at the Wall.  2K joined with Jon and took a hit.  

The NightsWatch - What.......50 guys?

Dany - 3 Dragons. The Dothraki Horde. Several Thousand Unsullied. A Merc group or two.  She's sitting pretty. 
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You forgot the whitewalkers. 

 
One of the great things about this show is how it now keeps you guessing. We knew the obvious was gonna happen (Rickon's death, KOTV saving the day, Dany & dragons taking out the masters, etc.) But I'm pleasantly surprised at how wrong I was about a few other things:

I thought Ramsey's arrow shots at Rickon served two purposes: killing him, but also so he could take a shot at Jon, wounding him before the battle began. Glad that didn't happen.

I also thought the foreshadowing of Jon camping in the same location as Stannis meant that Ramsey would again ambush the camp overnight. Especially when Sansa told him that he wouldn't fall into a trap, he was setting one. Again, glad it didn't turn out that way.

Adding to that, I thought that at some point, Ramsey would make a run at capturing Sansa before or during the battle. Jon's forces would somehow win, but the scene would end with Ramsey closing Winterfell's gates with Sansa being taken inside. 

All in all, great episode. Looking forward to the Riverlands storyline next week, with a hopeful missing tie in from the books happening. And we've got to end with something happening north of or at the Wall.

 
The more I think about it, the more I don't like the Ramsey/Rickon/Jon or Wun-Wun/Jon/Ramsey bow and arrow scenarios.  Ginned up, lazy melodrama that caters to stock television.  They could have come up with a smarter and (IMO) more realistic way to handled both of those situations. 

 
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