kentric
Footballguy
I thought that there was a long line of incestuous stuff going on with that family. Kind of like the Egyptian pharaohs.
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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter belljr
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
kentric
Footballguy
If the idea was to get the purest bloodlines, then you'd want to pair up half-siblings.They blame the in breeding on the mad king's well, madness.
Although in this case its a moot point as Dany can't conceive and Jon's sperm are likely zombie swimmers.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Not every character gets POV chapters. He doesn't want you to know what Littlefinger, Euron, and Varys, for example, are thinking. It makes sense. If you're trying to keep some secrets hidden, the people who have the most secrets can't tell the story. I also believe writing them like that shoots holes in the theory that this is a story Sam is telling after the fact. Sam would have no idea about many of the things told from a character's POV.
jhib
Footballguy
I just re-watched an episode early in season 4 where she comes upon a group of Lannister soldiers eating around a fire, and things ended very differently.
1) it was right after the Red Wedding, and one of the soldiers was bragging that he was one of the guys that sewed Robb's wolf's head to his body, so not so innocent
2) the soldiers told her to F off when she asked if they could share some food with her
3) she had the Hound with her at the time.
She offers the one guy the coin she had from Jaqen, drops it as he reaches for it, and then starts stabbing him with the knife she swiped from the Hound. Then the Hound takes care of the rest.
Anyway, I forgot about that scene and it was neat to compare it to this one.
Also, I love all of these old scenes with Arya and the Hound together. They make such a great pair.
The Indestructible
Footballguy
So this was slow to dawn on me, and I'm trying to work backwards to see how it may play out.
Dany made it a point that she wanted a Westerosi army to attack King's Landing, not an army of foreigners. So the plan was for Dorne and the Tyrells to attack King's Landing, but that was somewhat foiled by Euron's attack. But the dragon-destroying ballistas are at King's Landing, and Olenna told Dany to "be the dragon" or whatever. So the show is telling us that dragons are going to be ending up at King's Landing along with Dany's army of foreigners. If we play out her concern about foreigners attacking King's Landing, what could possibly happen? Who could decide to align with the Lannisters and defend King's Landing once they seem the foreigners attacking? Doesn't seem likely that Dorne or the Tyrells would switch sides because they still have the motivation to go after Cersei (though I suppose Elaria could switch sides if Cersei spares her life, maybe Yara too?). The only other houses I can think of from the show would be Tarly and Arryn, the latter of which seems unlikely. Any thoughts?
Dany made it a point that she wanted a Westerosi army to attack King's Landing, not an army of foreigners. So the plan was for Dorne and the Tyrells to attack King's Landing, but that was somewhat foiled by Euron's attack. But the dragon-destroying ballistas are at King's Landing, and Olenna told Dany to "be the dragon" or whatever. So the show is telling us that dragons are going to be ending up at King's Landing along with Dany's army of foreigners. If we play out her concern about foreigners attacking King's Landing, what could possibly happen? Who could decide to align with the Lannisters and defend King's Landing once they seem the foreigners attacking? Doesn't seem likely that Dorne or the Tyrells would switch sides because they still have the motivation to go after Cersei (though I suppose Elaria could switch sides if Cersei spares her life, maybe Yara too?). The only other houses I can think of from the show would be Tarly and Arryn, the latter of which seems unlikely. Any thoughts?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
A thought I had is that Tyene seems to be the only legitimate claimant to ruler of house Martell (and Dorne), as all Doran's children are dead, Oberyn, his brother, is the father of Tyene. Cersei could force a marriage between Tyene and Jamie, keep Tyene in King's Landing and force her to order the Dornish army to fight for the Lannisters. That of course would drive another wedge between her and Jamie, which could be the last straw for him supporting his sister. It's also questionable whether the Dornish would follow such orders, but we've seen similar things happen in the show already (house Tully for instance).
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think its been proposed to try and solve the problem of who the 3rd Targaryen is. You've got Danaerys and Jon, but then its all speculation with no real strongest alternative. Would Gendry satisfy the requirement? Are some/all of Joanna Lannister's kids actually children of the Mad King? The show has dispensed with other folks from the books who seemed to be possible answers. Who else is there? Maybe there won't be one at all, I don't think the show has made much of a point about there needing to be 3 "dragons." But at this point it seems to me, if there is a 3rd, the reveal is going to be somewhat cheap if/when it happens.
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
That's a good point. Cersei is telling everyone that they can't have foreign hordes on Westeros. Mainly smaller houses. The bigger houses are already aligned. I guess it would be the smaller houses. If enough of them band together, they could pose a threat. Or it could just be contrived drama.
zoonation
Footballguy
Given jon's physical traits, and the complete lack of any resembling anything Targaryan, it would be a massive leap to land on that conclusion. Unlike the Baratheon children, where it was plain us day.
-fish-
Footballguy
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
There's a very tasty rumor about the 3rd - but it will only make sense if you read the books. So i guess I can't mention it here.
If he had a good enough read on the Starks to know that Lyanna wasn't really kidnapped and that Ned was too honorable to ever have a kid out of wedlock, I could see Littlefinger reasonably having his suspicions about who the kid really was that Ned brought back with him (from the general area where Lyanna was being "held"). I just don't think he can prove it.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Up until Cersie's coup, you had to have Targaryen blood in you in order to be a legitimate ruler of the 7 kingdoms.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Up until Cersie's coup, you had to have Targaryen blood in you in order to be a legitimate ruler of the 7 kingdoms.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
There's been one line (a bit of a throwaway) in the show that seems very deliberate by the person who spoke it in which the rumored persons lineage was questioned.
the moops
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I have no doubt that Tarly turns on the Tyrells.
The Arryns (Eyrie) seem to be firmly in Jon Snow's camp......unless Littlefinger works a little magic and puts a bug in SweetRobins ear to ally with Cersei.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7who4CaKl14
3.40 on.....it's somthing that's backed a bit by book knowledge......but it was in the show.
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kentric
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Yeah he's perfect. Funny thing is I don't really remember him in anything before this except for maybe Last Action Hero.Charles Dance wasin this role.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
that scene you linked makes it seem as if if the lineage couldn't be questioned, thus the anger.
and yeah- dance destroys that scene... amazing.
El Floppo
Footballguy
strykerpks
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Interesting take and it would shut down one of the more vague theories in the books.
That being said, the reaction of Danys dragons to Tyrion in S5 kind of supports it.
El Floppo
Footballguy
men's laws give the right to bare my name and display my colors since I CAN NOT prove that you are not mine
I don't know how somebody hears that and thinks it means that tyrion ISN'T his son.
... is it the double negative? regardless of the dragons later on (which I took as liking him because they're smart and know somehow that he's loyal to their mom and mean them no harm... or that he's tiny and harmless to them, the way most of tyrion's peers think or thought of him.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Where's the confusion? He's basically saying i don't think you're my son but I can't prove it, so the law gives you certain rights. How could he ever prove it? They don't have DNA testing. That's why the theory is interesting but kind of wack imo--how do they reveal it on the show?
FWIW, I have the same issue with Jon's parentage. How does it come out? Who would believe Bran, a Stark, even if he proves his magical powers. Who would believe Meera's father, a Stark ally? At least with Jon there could be letters or something, as it was a love affair that started a war. Don't see how Tyrion's lineage could be proven either way at this point, since if the theory is correct his mother was sleeping with both a Lannister and a Targaryen.
FWIW, I have the same issue with Jon's parentage. How does it come out? Who would believe Bran, a Stark, even if he proves his magical powers. Who would believe Meera's father, a Stark ally? At least with Jon there could be letters or something, as it was a love affair that started a war. Don't see how Tyrion's lineage could be proven either way at this point, since if the theory is correct his mother was sleeping with both a Lannister and a Targaryen.
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
men's laws give the right to bare my name and display my colors since I CAN NOT prove that you are not mine
I don't know how somebody hears that and thinks it means that tyrion ISN'T his son.
There are statements in the books about the Mad King having an infatuation with Joanna Lannister and taking too many liberties with her during the consummation ceremony at her wedding to Tywin. Tywin was pissed. It caused issues between them. If they had a fling at some point and it resulted in Tyrion, who then killed Joanna during childbirth, you could understand how Tywin would resent him. Especially were it just a suspicion that Tyrion wasn't his child. He can't prove it, though he very much suspects it for very good reasons.
El Floppo
Footballguy
whoa.
he's literally saying- you're my son only because I can't prove that you're not. you killed your mom/my wife and waddle around as an embarrassment to me. I wish you weren't my son, but I can't prove otherwise.
how am I the only one reading/hearing it that way?
this is weird.
eta: ah. thanks bob... book stuff.
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
There's more to it than JUST that as it related to Joanna and Aerys, but that's the Cliff's Notes version.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
The timing of it MAY BE off, though.
"The scurrilous rumor that Joanna Lannister gave up her maidenhead to Prince Aerys the night of his fathers coronation and enjoyed a brief reign after he ascended the Iron Throne as his paramour can safely be discounted".
"It has been reliably reported, however, that King Aerys took unwonted liberties with Lady Joanna's person during her bedding ceremony, to Tywin's displeasure. Not long thereafter, Queen Rhaella dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service. No reason for this was ever given, but Lady Joanna departed at once for Casterly Rock and seldom visited King's Landing thereafter."
"Sadly, the marriage between Aerys II Targaryen and his sister, Rhaella, was not as happy; though she turned a blind eye to most of the king's infidelities, the queen did not approve of his turning my ladies into his whores. (Joanna Lannister was not the first lady to be dismissed abruptly from Her Grace's service, nor was she the last)".
Joanna was dismissed shortly after her marriage to Tywin. Cersei and Jaime were born three years after their marriage. Tyrion 8 years after that. So it's not a convenient theory in a timeline manner. But it does make it sound like this was a mutual thing, and it wouldn't be the first time people had an extended long distance affair.
"The scurrilous rumor that Joanna Lannister gave up her maidenhead to Prince Aerys the night of his fathers coronation and enjoyed a brief reign after he ascended the Iron Throne as his paramour can safely be discounted".
"It has been reliably reported, however, that King Aerys took unwonted liberties with Lady Joanna's person during her bedding ceremony, to Tywin's displeasure. Not long thereafter, Queen Rhaella dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service. No reason for this was ever given, but Lady Joanna departed at once for Casterly Rock and seldom visited King's Landing thereafter."
"Sadly, the marriage between Aerys II Targaryen and his sister, Rhaella, was not as happy; though she turned a blind eye to most of the king's infidelities, the queen did not approve of his turning my ladies into his whores. (Joanna Lannister was not the first lady to be dismissed abruptly from Her Grace's service, nor was she the last)".
Joanna was dismissed shortly after her marriage to Tywin. Cersei and Jaime were born three years after their marriage. Tyrion 8 years after that. So it's not a convenient theory in a timeline manner. But it does make it sound like this was a mutual thing, and it wouldn't be the first time people had an extended long distance affair.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
fwiw: I don't subscribe to most of the nerd theories that exist, those included. But I'm aware of a lot of them. Some are interesting and show the disturbing attention people pay to the details of these things.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
You're talking about books that have been out and lacking a finale for what, 15-20 years? That's a lot of time for people to break this #### down and speculate. We all re-read our favorite books, but most series are finished in this amount of time.
zoonation
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
The crazy part is it took a bit to hire him for the role. He was filming "Your Highness" already when they signed him on to play Tywin.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
That scene where he's skinning the deer (which Dance actually did btw, he learned that day on set) is still a GOAT GoT scene.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
They are related. I believe he's her uncle, exiled. Something to do with slaves/slavers.
What I wonder is--what's the story with his father, (dead) Night's Watch Commander Jeor Mormont? How did he end up in the Night's Watch? They portray him as an honorable man but he had to get there somehow.
