Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (5 Viewers)

[kentric]

The monday morning couch dragon generals are my favorite thing in this thread.

While some would rather put their heads in the sand and say the show is perfect, I'm not so in love with the show that I'm blind to its flaws.  Nothing wrong with pointing out inconsistencies.  

 

[encaitar]

Somebody joked (maybe Floppo), and I had the same thought, that Dany's first pass with the dragon basically just opened up a small lane in the spear wall and the Dothraki still just slammed into in and died by the bunches.  Doesn't seem like a great strategy, but you know - 1. drama and 2. if she did that we wouldn't get to the the Dothraki in action. 

Yes, it would've made more sense to have Dany come from the side and wipe out their line, but then we wouldn't have gotten that cool ### shot of Drogon over the top of the Dothraki, which was one of the best visuals I've ever seen.  Plus the Dothraki need bloodying.  They killed 9 of each other at Dany's wedding earlier in the series, they need somewhere to get their aggression out.  If Dany did all the work, they'd have felt cheated.

 

[packersfan]

I don't think it was harsh at all.  All of his advice has worked out terribly, conveniently while fighting against his family (whom he says he hates, but that's all Khaleesi has to go on with his relationship with his family).  We know that that Cersei/Jamie were able to predict his moves because of what they know about him, but from Dany's point of view we have a guy giving advice on how to fight against his family and that family magically knows all of their troop movements and takes out half her army in transit.  It makes a lot of sense for her to be questioning that.

He's done poorly but he didn't deserve to have his loyalty questioned. There was no reason for anyone to think the strategies failed because Tyrion wanted them to or wasn't committed to their success. Hell, Casterly Rock was a brilliant plan. Only Cersei being one step ahead of him foiled it. 

 

[OC Zed]

I didn't find the first two thirds slow at all. In fact, it made me further lament the weak 2nd episode this season even more Very similar in purpose. A lot of major plots moving forward/coming together.  Scenes with heavyweights of heavyweights together for the first times. 

Unlike a couple episodes ago, there was tension, pressure, intrigue.  I noticed the often applauded presence of great subtle scoring with exceptional cinematography and visuals. The dialogue had significant impact but was in no way canned nor forced.  It was pretty awesome overall. Suddenly I noticed we were over a half hour in, not "much" had happened and yet so much had... and I was riveted understanding this was very much a prelude and set up to these final stages.

To clarify, I meant "slow" from an action standpoint.  I agree there were plenty of meaningful scenes leading up to that, but the tension was running very much under the surface for most of the show until the big explosion in the last 15 minutes.  

 

[Tackling Dummies]

That was the first time in the series, where I thought "I can see a future for Arya."  She has become what she always wanted to be - and she is pretty good at it.

Of course, now she'll probably be dead by the end of the season.

Aaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd I'm out after that. 

 

[packersfan]

One of the perspectives I really like about GoT is that it does not allow characters to forget who they are, or once were. Within us, there are innate drives, coping mechanisms, behaviors, that have been fostered during out core formative years.  We may be 20, 50, 80, but in a way we still have connections to that inner being, and it sometimes shows in how we act, especially within a certain context.

When is the last time we saw Arya, playing/training with weapons in the Courtyard, her sister and others watching... it's her chance to be the precocious 8 year old kid out dueling her brother, shocking people as to her skills and ability, simultaneously upending the family order of her being the youngest, always the child, and the expectations of who and what she should be, as a result.

I found that scene as Arya as anything we've seen. It is who and what she is, at heart... from the very first scenes of the film. A direct connection with the introductory, foundation-building episodes before we knew where any of this would go. All we knew was that this Ned guy had to be in for a good long run in his character on this new TV show with a huge budget, cool fight scenes and plenty of male-friendly soap operatic dialogue and ennui (ok, I just wanted to say ennui, but it's as good as anything I suppose). 

That scene was a great callback to the first time we ever saw Arya, showing Bran how to fire a bow and making him look bad in the process.

I said it before - the callbacks this season have been terrific. 

 

[packersfan]

Aaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd I'm out after that. 

Yeah, Tyrion and Arya can't die. I simply will not allow it. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Not gonna lie, I watched that episode more than once last night. So many interesting stories and the battle wasn't even one of them by itself. 

I think I can make a decent argument that all of the shows main characters are going to be together at some point. It's shaping up too much in that way.

Arya might be the most important agent of change/chaos in the show right now.  She proved she can beat anyone in that training session. She has valerian steel, she can be anyone,  and she has the faith in herself to do it.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

He's done poorly but he didn't deserve to have his loyalty questioned. There was no reason for anyone to think the strategies failed because Tyrion wanted them to or wasn't committed to their success. Hell, Casterly Rock was a brilliant plan. Only Cersei being one step ahead of him foiled it. 

Right, and how did she get one step ahead?  We know it was because she knew Tyrion's tendencies, but all Dany knows is that Tyrion gave her advice on how to fight his family and the advice he gave her sent them right into a trap.  Not a crazy stretch to think that Tyrion was playing both sides.  Remember, she doesn't have the perspective we do of his relationship with Cersei.  All she has is Tyrion showing up, telling her he hates his family, and then giving her a bunch of advice that played right into his family's hand.

If anything she should have been harsher on him.  No need to keep him around.  All his advice has worked out poorly from Mereen to Westeros, and there are reasons for her to have questions about his loyalty.

 

[packersfan]

Not gonna lie, I watched that episode more than once last night. So many interesting stories and the battle wasn't even one of them by itself. 

I think I can make a decent argument that all of the shows main characters are going to be together at some point. It's shaping up too much in that way.

Arya might be the most important agent of change/chaos in the show right now.  She proved she can beat anyone in that training session. She has valerian steel, she can be anyone,  and she has the faith in herself to do it.

Based on the previews safe to say two more big reunions are coming in the next episode.

And yeah, I'm gonna be re-watching this episode all week. It was outstanding.

 

[packersfan]

Right, and how did she get one step ahead?  We know it was because she knew Tyrion's tendencies, but all Dany knows is that Tyrion gave her advice on how to fight his family and the advice he gave her sent them right into a trap.  Not a crazy stretch to think that Tyrion was playing both sides.  Remember, she doesn't have the perspective we do of his relationship with Cersei.  All she has is Tyrion showing up, telling her he hates his family, and then giving her a bunch of advice that played right into his family's hand.

If anything she should have been harsher on him.  No need to keep him around.  All his advice has worked out poorly from Mereen to Westeros, and there are reasons for her to have questions about his loyalty.

We're just gonna have to disagree here. I thought Dany's reaction was entirely emotionally driven, not thinking clearly. There's no reason at this time to distrust Tyrion or want him out of her camp. 

 

[Koya]

I thought it was a fantastic episode.  The fight scene with the Dothraki was awesome (production value a hell of a lot better than the Iron Islands naval battle - although it could have been on a grander scale).  One of their best episodes for me.  The scenes surrounding the dragon (and its aftermath) were great IMO.

A few points:

• Dany needs to know when to back out of a fight.  That one ballista shot went right past her head.  It was a mop-up operation at that point and she should have just done a skeedaddle.
  
• Dany.  Your troops are going to need that food you're burning to a crisp
  
• Someone needs to teach the Dothraki to do a better job of cutting off the head (put more emphasis of knocking off the leaders).
  

I noticed the scorched earth style again last night, harkening back to something I said last week... Dany lacks a magnanimous quality to her... it's still about HER. Her legacy, her family, her rights... and her role in (deciding) to free slaves, but then kill their former owners.  

She seems to lack the ability to truly empathize and sympathize outside of her own understanding of right and wrong - as such, she seems to very much take the ends justify the means, even if the result is she undercuts the very "good" aspects about her.

From a who "deserves" the throne aspect, this brings to question her true intentions and how "good" she may be in terms of altruism vs. her role, her success, HER legacy. From the aspect of ability to succeed in both getting and KEEPING the thone, does the have the right mentality and balance?

Does she know when to back out of a fight... or not enter it at all. Does she get too impulsive, too wanting of clear dramatic victory that she will give into the dark side of power... is she, too much her father in some ways even?

The irony is we've seen the realm be harmed by terrible men, only to have the balance of these powerful women rise.  Yet, the women we see in power, Cersei, Dany, Ellaria... how about the realm, and the true wellness of all others (not just those you save and then bring back into your fold) are they? It actually seems the most "true" and "good" hearts are the more introspective Jamie, Tyrion (terrible war general as he may be) and Sam. 

Has the script flipped, again?

 

[Koya]

So Littlefinger's endgame is just to bang Sansa, right? He seems to be sticking around for way too long with too many people who want to kill him (Jon, Brienne, and soon Arya). He seems blinded by his wierd ### love

The friendzone makes us do terrible things.

 

[packersfan]

The friendzone makes us do terrible things.

Little Finger wants to be king and he needs a queen. Sansa's the target because of her position in the North.

That and the dude's got a creepy fixation on Stark women. We can only hope he turns his attentions to Arya.

Assuming you're among the group that wants to see him die.  

 

[Sinn Fein]

We're just gonna have to disagree here. I thought Dany's reaction was entirely emotionally driven, not thinking clearly. There's no reason at this time to distrust Tyrion or want him out of her camp. 

Seems like the writers hate Tyrion - because, aside from a few good one-liners, he has not done anything well lately.  Made a mistake in Merreen.  Made a mistake attacking Kings Landing.  Made a mistake attacking Casterly Rock.

What was the last thing he did "right"?  Maybe inviting Jon Snow to Dragonstone...but given that Tyrion was portrayed as having a good strategic/diplomatic mind - he pretty much has been sucking at it...

 

[matuski]

While some would rather put their heads in the sand and say the show is perfect, I'm not so in love with the show that I'm blind to its flaws.  Nothing wrong with pointing out inconsistencies.  

No no please continue.

Should Dany have banked left or right on the one that hit her?  Perhaps a strafing maneuver?

 

[encaitar]

Little Finger wants to be king and he needs a queen. Sansa's the target because of her position in the North.

That and the dude's got a creepy fixation on Stark women. We can only hope he turns his attentions to Arya.

Assuming you're among the group that wants to see him die.  

He grew up with Cat and Lysa.  He was in love with Cat his entire life.  I think we're supposed to assume that Sansa looks like a young Catelyn and it drives him wild.  I don't think he was lying when he said that he imagines himself on the iron throne with Sansa as his wife.  She's his kryptonite right now.  He tells her that you need to see all the angles and be ready for everything, but at this point he's not playing his own game because every angle he's preparing for has Sansa with him as a part of it.

 

[packersfan]

Seems like the writers hate Tyrion - because, aside from a few good one-liners, he has not done anything well lately.  Made a mistake in Merreen.  Made a mistake attacking Kings Landing.  Made a mistake attacking Casterly Rock.

What was the last thing he did "right"?  Maybe inviting Jon Snow to Dragonstone...but given that Tyrion was portrayed as having a good strategic/diplomatic mind - he pretty much has been sucking at it...

Actually, his strength has been with political moves, not so much battle plans other than saving King's Landing. Where he has excelled is working the political game and Dany will need him there. 

Worth pointing out that his advice to Dany not to attack King's Landing with her dragons is one Jon agreed with and Dany didn't follow through with. The scene played out as Jon being the one to convince her (likely to build further closeness between them) but all Jon was really doing was agreeing with what Tyrion had said. 

 

[Koya]

I don't think she lost that many troops, they ran right threw the Lannisters. Also she was killing troops while she was going down the road burning everything in her path. So what kind of army does Cersei have left at this point?

An army of gold... which has always been the root of their power. And, the source of its limitations.

 

[packersfan]

He grew up with Cat and Lysa.  He was in love with Cat his entire life.  I think we're supposed to assume that Sansa looks like a young Catelyn and it drives him wild.  I don't think he was lying when he said that he imagines himself on the iron throne with Sansa as his wife.  She's his kryptonite right now.  He tells her that you need to see all the angles and be ready for everything, but at this point he's not playing his own game because every angle he's preparing for has Sansa with him as a part of it.

Doesn't Arya look more like Cat now? 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I only watched season 1 and 2 of each, before they went mainstream and sold out.

I actively and openly long for the day I can sell out. 

 

[kentric]

No no please continue.

Should Dany have banked left or right on the one that hit her?  Perhaps a strafing maneuver?

As others have pointed out, her straffing abilities were lacking.  There shouldn't have been a need for her to bank left or right, she shouldn't have continued the fight (after the first bolt barely missed) with her dragon anyway as it was in cleanup mode and the Dothraki could have easily finished off the remaining troops. 

Almost everyone loved the episode.  Why are you getting your panties in a bunch about people pointing out little inconsistencies.  It's a free board for people to post their views.  If you don't care for a contributor's post then block that person.  

 

[encaitar]

Doesn't Arya look more like Cat now? 

No.  It was mentioned many times in the show, mostly the first few seasons(and even more in those mystical things that don't exist) that Arya looks like her aunt Lyanna.  Sansa has the Tully looks.

 

[packersfan]

No.  It was mentioned many times in the show, mostly the first few seasons(and even more in those mystical things that don't exist) that Arya looks like her aunt Lyanna.  Sansa has the Tully looks.

Guess I was just going with the dark hair.  

 

[Buckna]

I noticed the scorched earth style again last night, harkening back to something I said last week... Dany lacks a magnanimous quality to her... it's still about HER. Her legacy, her family, her rights... and her role in (deciding) to free slaves, but then kill their former owners.  

She seems to lack the ability to truly empathize and sympathize outside of her own understanding of right and wrong - as such, she seems to very much take the ends justify the means, even if the result is she undercuts the very "good" aspects about her.

From a who "deserves" the throne aspect, this brings to question her true intentions and how "good" she may be in terms of altruism vs. her role, her success, HER legacy. From the aspect of ability to succeed in both getting and KEEPING the thone, does the have the right mentality and balance?

Does she know when to back out of a fight... or not enter it at all. Does she get too impulsive, too wanting of clear dramatic victory that she will give into the dark side of power... is she, too much her father in some ways even?

The irony is we've seen the realm be harmed by terrible men, only to have the balance of these powerful women rise.  Yet, the women we see in power, Cersei, Dany, Ellaria... how about the realm, and the true wellness of all others (not just those you save and then bring back into your fold) are they? It actually seems the most "true" and "good" hearts are the more introspective Jamie, Tyrion (terrible war general as he may be) and Sam. 

Has the script flipped, again?

I think that is a good point and we will see more of it. Dany has been very obstinate with Snow constantly telling him to bend the knee, I think you are seeing the ruthless Targaryian and the Mad King's influence coming out which her advisers are starting to notice as well.

Also as far as burning the food, how would she know what was in the wagons? You could probably assume there were supplies for that army, but not necessarily tons and tons of food that that army had just looted.

 

[Mile High]

Doesn't Arya look more like Cat now? 

More like Ned in the brown armor and the shoulder length hair with part in a pony tail.

 

[Chadstroma]

Who taught you how to do that? 

No one. 

 

[Ilov80s]

And Rickon always sucked at tag.  Straight liner every time.  

In the books it was mentioned a lot about how Bran loved to climb, and then of course he saw things.  

Actually, yes Rickon is where he has always been- irrelevant to the story. 

 

[packersfan]

More like Ned in the brown armor and the shoulder length hair with part in a pony tail.

Maisie Williams is cuter than Sean Bean. 

 

[encaitar]

Guess I was just going with the dark hair.  

Sansa's hair is definitely more red than her mother's on the show, but Catelyn is where she gets the red hair from.  The Starks are the dark haired folk.

Not quite a ginger.

 

[eoMMan]

No no please continue.

Should Dany have banked left or right on the one that hit her?  Perhaps a strafing maneuver?

Stop. Nothing wrong with pointing out some flaws in the show or simply things you didn't like or agree with.

 

[Chadstroma]

Maisie Williams is cuter than Sean Bean. 

In real life or the show? 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

10 episodes left till Sam takes the throne. 

Why do you hate Hot Pie?

 

[packersfan]

Actually, yes Rickon is where he has always been- irrelevant to the story. 

Whenever I think of Rickon it's always this scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgs0GAu_HeA 

 

[packersfan]

In real life or the show? 

Both but Sean Bean is a handsome fella.

Hot Pie spotted the Arya cuteness. He knows what's up.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Seems like the writers hate Tyrion - because, aside from a few good one-liners, he has not done anything well lately.  Made a mistake in Merreen.  Made a mistake attacking Kings Landing.  Made a mistake attacking Casterly Rock.

What was the last thing he did "right"?  Maybe inviting Jon Snow to Dragonstone...but given that Tyrion was portrayed as having a good strategic/diplomatic mind - he pretty much has been sucking at it...

I don't agree that Tyrion has been a bad Hand. His solution with the Masters he readily admitted was to buy time so there wasn't a civil war. He just didn't get the amount of time he hoped. But politically it was absolutely the right thing to do.

His plans once in Westeros were also correct from a political and war standpoint. Strangling the enemy on all,sides without directly hitting them is a smart move. What he didn't count on was the Lannisters abandoning Casterly Rock.

Eurones fleet is a wildcard that they have tried to make clear they really weren't ready for so that is a spy failure, not his directly.  Jon backing him up shows he isn't wrong. If she is gong to be a different queen, they need to do it without killing every innocent person in Kings Landing.

The scene last night was Dany still being an emotional child. Every time she has taken a step back she has been slapped a little.  It's all a lesson for her on how to rule and how you need to remove emotion.  She was smart to ask Jon and she has shown a willingness to listen to her advisors.

But when she doesn't, like charging the crossbow which was stupid in every way, her emotions fail her. Tyrion handles her well. I think he is doing a good job.  No matter the best plans, best army and best weapon, things don't always go as planned in war.

If she won every fight, she wouldn't learn any lesson from war.

 

[packersfan]

I don't agree that Tyrion has been a bad Hand. His solution with the Masters he readily admitted was to buy time so there wasn't a civil war. He just didn't get the amount of time he hoped. But politically it was absolutely the right thing to do.

His plans once in Westeros were also correct from a political and war standpoint. Strangling the enemy on all,sides without directly hitting them is a smart move. What he didn't count on was the Lannisters abandoning Casterly Rock.

Eurones fleet is a wildcard that they have tried to make clear they really weren't ready for so that is a spy failure, not his directly.  Jon backing him up shows he isn't wrong. If she is gong to be a different queen, they need to do it without killing every innocent person in Kings Landing.

The scene last night was Dany still being an emotional child. Every time she has taken a step back she has been slapped a little.  It's all a lesson for her on how to rule and how you need to remove emotion.  She was smart to ask Jon and she has shown a willingness to listen to her advisors.

But when she doesn't, like charging the crossbow which was stupid in every way, her emotions fail her. Tyrion handles her well. I think he is doing a good job.  No matter the best plans, best army and best weapon, things don't always go as planned in war.

If she won every fight, she wouldn't learn any lesson from war.

I think Tyrion's plans were well thought out. Cersei just one-upped him. #### happens in war. Hell, Tywin Lannister was getting his ### kicked all over the place by Robb until he came up with the Red Wedding idea. And he was regarded as a strategical genius. 

 

[Mile High]

Maisie Williams is cuter than Sean Bean. 

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5987d2bb1dc63c45b7b1db55/master/w_690,c_limit/arya-brienne-ned.gif

 

[Koya]

Little Finger wants to be king and he needs a queen. Sansa's the target because of her position in the North.

That and the dude's got a creepy fixation on Stark women. We can only hope he turns his attentions to Arya.

Assuming you're among the group that wants to see him die.  

Meh.  Guys a slimeball, but as such, a great foil. 

That said, I wouldn't care much if he did die. 

 

[Chadstroma]

Both but Sean Bean is a handsome fella.

Hot Pie spotted the Arya cuteness. He knows what's up.

Just asking for clarification. 

Arya is cute. Not pretty or beautiful but cute, yes, I would go with that. 

 

[packersfan]

Just asking for clarification. 

Arya is cute. Not pretty or beautiful but cute, yes, I would go with that. 

Yeah I think she's cute. She's not in Dany or Missandei's class obviously but I'd say she's cute. Plus she's spunky. Spunky is fun.

 

[bigmarc27]

So Jamie's dead, right?  Everyone feel that is a pretty safe assumption?

 

[eoMMan]

Are the three dragons pretty much the same in terms of abilities?

They all fly and breathe fire? 

 

[Chadstroma]

Yeah I think she's cute. She's not in Dany or Missandei's class obviously but I'd say she's cute. Plus she's spunky. Spunky is fun.

Dany is beautiful. 

Missandei is down right sexy. 

 

[Chadstroma]

Are the three dragons pretty much the same in terms of abilities?

They all fly and breathe fire? 

One of them juggles too. 

 

[packersfan]

It is really impressive how good the younger actors on the show have become. We saw it with all three of the Stark kids back together last night. You never know how a young actor will evolve as they grow up but this show really hit the mark with Turner, Williams and Wright. 

 

[trident]

I don't think she lost that many troops, they ran right threw the Lannisters. Also she was killing troops while she was going down the road burning everything in her path. So what kind of army does Cersei have left at this point?

They threw the Lannisters?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The Gold Company, a bunch of sell swords for hire.

The one time I cringed. 

If it's just Sellswords, and they borrow from the lore, OK. 

Cringe-inducement from other forms of media:

Spoiler

They wouldn't try to introduce Jon Connington to the story at this stage, would they? At the very least not with "Young Griff".

 

[Koya]

So Jamie's dead, right?  Everyone feel that is a pretty safe assumption?

Yes/No.  100%

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Dany is beautiful. 

Missandei is down right sexy. 

Once this show is done, there needs to be a video made that just loops all the times Dany says, dracaris.  The first time was still the sexiest thing I've ever seen on tv, and last night was as well.