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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter belljr
- Start date
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I don't really think this is a spoiler since its just speculation based on what has already happened, but I'll tag it anyway.
Interesting theory I saw elsewhere:
Interesting theory I saw elsewhere:
The Iron Throne of Westeros (not the Lannisters) owes money to the Iron Bank. As the bank guy noted, Tywin never paid them off in full, as Cersei has apparently done. Tywin presumably recognized some value in keeping the bank's skin in the game. Cersei is paying a debt on behalf of the throne, but the guy hasn't really committed to support her in the war. Bank guy essentially said, "we don't bet on winners or losers, we back the winner."
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I know people like to hate on the people nitpicking and pointing out things, but hey - on the positive side at least they are paying attention and watching the episodes. 
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Interesting and it does jibe with some of the conversational points between the two characters. That being said, one of the points that I didn't get in the show was Cersei's use of Slavers Bay and Dany dismantling the slave trade as a "chip" to try and make The Iron Bank representative see her POV. I'd assume that anything from Bravos would be vehnemently opposed to slavery.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I don't think that it's a spoiler or anything. I think it's pretty safe to say that Cersei did not inherit her father's smarts and leadership. Tywin probably was smarter about it, and I always got the impression that it was Robert's boozing/whoring/tourneys that really sunk the throne into debt a lot more.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I think she was just pointing out another reason not to back Dany - she probably cost them a lot of money by dismantling the slave trade. I guess I took it as the IB is probably talking out of both sides of their mouths. Publicly they will have to be against slavery, but privately they were for sure financially backing the slavers b/c it was good investment and profitable to to them. I assumed it was like a government being involved in shady things to fund other public things.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
pretty sure Robert inherited a sizable chunk of debt from the Targaryens ... their ostentatious bent (opulent builds all over King's Landing) was not exactly cheap, i'm sure.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Well, to be fair, the part where babies were being offered to white walkers was many seasons ago. I do now remember the night king turning the crying baby instantly into a white walker. It still doesn't make sense to me. Do white walkers grow and age?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
What was funnier was "Chaos is a ladder" and the face on Littlefinger like "Bruh, wha?!"
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Fair point. I think there was a discussion about it in S1 when Ned was surprised about how far Robert had driven them in debt, but don't know if there was any further discussion besides the he was surprised Jon A let that happen. Who knows how in debt they were before that, but I know that a bit of Robert's concern was that Robert was borrowing so much from the Lannister's to fund his shenanigans too.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I don't see why Robert would inherit the debts of the Targaryens of which he overthrew. The debts that Westeros has is all on Robert and then the War of the Five Kings and now Cersei's War of Succession (No idea what to call this current conflict yet)
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Good point too. Power ended with the Targs, but has been passed on from Robert -> Joff --> Tommen --> Cersei, so maybe the debts follow the same pattern.
I think the IB guy also said to Cersei they use the Gold Company to go in after the fact if they think they won't get paid. In the case of Robert overthrowing the Targs, do they send in sellswords after to loot the Targs holdings to get their debts, or does just evaporate and chalk it up to betting on the losing side and try again next time?
otb_lifer
Footballguy
from what was unearthed a few posts up, it's the Realm that owes the debt, not necessarily the Family in power (perpetual debt 'til satisfied).
perhaps that's why Robert was mining Tywin so hard, because the IB put the kibosh on funds?
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I recall from one of the first few seasons, when Littlefinger was Master of Coin, he had this great reputation as a money manager, but when Tyrion took over the books, he commented that Littlefinger was just borrowing money from the IB.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
Not sure about in the objects with words printed on paper in them, but in the show the realm' s debt is pretty much on Robert. In any case the realm owns the debt just like America owes it debt even if it changes the people in charge. Changing governments on the iron throne is just a lot harder.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
For any debt that the Targayens had- it would have been written off as a loss. Similar to a bank now that has given a loan and you default on it.
The power of the IB is that they pretty much are the only source for financing in this world unless you have a wealthy House that wants to support you. For Cersei, it was crucial to get them on her side for two reasons- 1) She needs their money to finance her war. 2) She does not want Dany to get more resources. As we saw before in past seasons when Stannis went to them- they are willing to back other powers if they believe they can win and make them more money. As the representative said, it is all a matter of arithmetic or in our worlds language, a matter of underwriting risk.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
What was unearthed? The post about a theory? There is nothing authoritative there or did I miss something?
I would argue that the debt follows the House and not the Throne. So, whether there was or was not debt under the Targaryen dynasty would not impact the Baratheon dynasty and not as a cadet branch that is now the primary royal claimant of House Lannister. Baratheon debt would transfer to Cersei because her claim to the throne is through the Baratheon claim. Robert likely had a good amount of debt during his rebellion as wars are costly and then it was shown in season 1 that he increased debt by being a pretty poor ruler.
Martin bases a lot of his writing on our history. If we look at the War of the Roses where the throne changes houses, House Lancaster did not pay York debts, though House Lancaster would carry a good amount of debt in order to fund it's wars.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
If Littlefinger took his whore houses public, what ticker symbol do you think they'd use? [/wh]
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PIK95
Footballguy
I was at the docs for Diverticulitis last week. A lil Cipro and Flagil and I'm feeling a ok. IT kinda sucks though. Sounds like you went through helz. Happy to hear you are ok.Koya's fun times with Divirticulitis
Long story short, two years ago diagnosed with serious divirticulitis.
Was scheduled for surgery on Nov. 20, 2015 as I needed to heal to be strong enough to have them cut out part of my lower intestine.
Three days prior to that I was rushed into the ER as I had also come down with a life threatening disease in its own right, C Diff. The combo had me go sepsis and rushed into life saving surgery.
Since #### hit the fan (it was real bad, 17 hours in surgery) they could only cut out my intestine, not reconnect. The Red Lady brought me back, but not without consequences. I pooped into a bag for most of the next year before being strong enough for reconnective surgery late summer last year.
All along, it was sorta expected that I'd need some cleanup, likely from hernias and that's what we took care of last week. All's good here out, though.
-fish-
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
In my case, it was misdiagnosed for like two years. Actually did the right thing by going to see the docs, they said it was IBS (aka, they didn't know what the hell it was). By the time they finally figured it out, things were bad enough that it couldn't be controlled/mitigated with diet, the physical damage was done.
Hope the meds work for you - the one silver lining is because of the hell I went through, the infected part is completely out, so no technical dietary restrictions whatsoever.
Koya
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
FNED
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Reminds me of the woman in Colorado who, reputedly, likes tofu but was denied the license plate ILVTOFU.
PIK95
Footballguy
I caught something on the re watch today that was VERY interesting. It may have been brought up (I don't have time to check) either here or online but maybe not.
So when Arya is asking Bran about the Valaryn steel dagger he said "It was made to kill me." Obviously everyone thought he meant the assassin after he fell, but I think it was actually MADE to kill him (or three eyed dragon 300 years previous him) and he saw the vision. He started to tell Littlefinger who it belonged to in a previos scene, but he stopped unfortunately.
I think Little finger will try and kill him now after the chaos ladder revelation, but Arya will kill Littlefinger defending Bran instead. Anyone mention any of this already?
So when Arya is asking Bran about the Valaryn steel dagger he said "It was made to kill me." Obviously everyone thought he meant the assassin after he fell, but I think it was actually MADE to kill him (or three eyed dragon 300 years previous him) and he saw the vision. He started to tell Littlefinger who it belonged to in a previos scene, but he stopped unfortunately.
I think Little finger will try and kill him now after the chaos ladder revelation, but Arya will kill Littlefinger defending Bran instead. Anyone mention any of this already?
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
It was meant to kill me.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Dany and crew are planning a siege of KL. That will take a lot of time that the kingdom does not have.
I suspect Jon returns to WF but time becomes short waiting for Dany's forces. Once he becomes convinced of her prowess, Jon sends Arya to assassinate Cercei and end the war, freeing up Dany and crew to head north.
eta: could also see Jon refusing to put her in harm's way but she taking it upon herself to go anyway.
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Scoresman
Footballguy
Since it's Valyrian steel and he said it was "made to kill me", that gives validity to the theory that Bran is the Night King.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
The demo skull was ancient and decaying.the demo went through the skull, the actual went part way into a shoulder.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Just pulled up the episode with CC:
Bran: He thought I'd want it
Sansa: Why?
Bran: Because it was meant to kill me.
LAUNCH
Footballguy
The Indestructible
Footballguy
My wife stopped watching this show during the Theon torture episodes, but has since picked it back up again.
She was telling me that she just watched the episode where Joffrey dies. It is amazing how far the show has moved on and changed from that point.
She was telling me that she just watched the episode where Joffrey dies. It is amazing how far the show has moved on and changed from that point.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
The Indestructible
Footballguy
Yeah, I think so. She forgot a lot of stuff and wasn't sure she would remember who certain characters were, so she started from the beginning.Isn't that before all the Theon torture episodes?
LAUNCH
Footballguy
http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/jerome-flynn-on-fighting-dragons-bronn-personal-stakes
HBO: What is Bronn and Jaime’s relationship at this point?
Jerome Flynn: There’s an element of frustration in terms of how he’s being used. Jaime is talking about Bronn as if he’s his right-hand man with this elevated status, but Bronn is still getting tasked with dirty work. Bronn even tells him to go back to King’s Landing, but he sticks around and then makes Bronn basically go on a death run; it pisses Bronn off. Nobody’s going to be happy to be told to ride through that battlefield with the dragon ahead.
HBO: What was it like shooting the Episode 4 battle?
Jerome Flynn: It took four or five weeks to film that sequence, but the actual “death run” to Qyburn’s scorpion happened over a couple of days. And that one particular sequence was some of the most most exciting filming I’ve had. You’ve got all this extraordinary excellence around you — people who have been training for months to get every little piece of their puzzle right; stuntmen, armorers, everyone. It’s a whole dance going on. And suddenly you’re set free, and it’s the ultimate boy’s playground with a lot of adrenaline thrown in.
As an actor, it’s wonderful because it’s all laid out for you; you don’t have to worry about what to do with your hands, or how you look, because it’s all there in the action. You really do have to watch yourself. When I was on the run, I had to be super alert, because all sorts of stuff was going on. Even amidst the wonderful organization, there’s a lot of unpredictability because every take was different. But that’s actually part of what makes it great and authentic. The fresher it is, the more fun it is to do.
HBO: Qyburn’s weapon looked very menacing on screen. Did it actually work as you were filming?
Jerome Flynn: Yes, I shot that thing, so it was real. It was all part of the sequence and training. The armorers on this show are just geniuses, and they try to make everything as authentic as possible. It’s probably the coolest weapon I’m going to get to play with.
HBO: What was it like finally seeing the sequence all put-together with the dragon?
Jerome Flynn: I was surprised when I was watching it. I spent weeks on that sequence, but I was on the edge of my seat, the adrenaline was running — they really nailed it. Although since the day the battle aired, I’ve been a little unpopular, I have to say. My postman won’t speak to me because I shot the dragon.
HBO: What do you think of the fact that fans have been torn over which side to root for?
Jerome Flynn: How brilliant is that? And that’s Tyrion’s perspective, standing there. He’s got Daenerys when she gets shot down, and then his brother is who’s trying to kill her; Tyrion can’t win, really. But that’s part of the brilliance of where we’ve got to in the story after seven years of that character investment.
HBO: Bronn keeps insisting he¹s just in it for the money. Does he have any personal stakes with the Lannisters?
Jerome Flynn: His personal stake is there, in that that’s where his debts lie his dream-future is in Jaime’s hands. And that¹s what motivates him in the episode. The relationship he has is with Jaime, and he knows there¹s enough loyalty there to be rewarded quite handsomely in gold. He's looking out for himself.
HBO: Does Bronn still have more allegiance to Tyrion than Jaime in some way?
Jerome Flynn: It’s a different kettle of fish. He doesn’t have total disregard for Jaime, but he has a bond with Tyrion that’s hard for him to ignore. And the connection they’ve made with their sense of humor. If Bronn’s got a fondness for anybody in the world, I’d say Tyrion is probably close up there. He sees him as an underdog like himself.
HBO: How concerned should we be about Bronn at the end of the episode?
Jerome Flynn: I think it depends on if you care for him. If you’re really angry he’s been shooting at Drogon, then maybe not.
HBO: One last question: Iain Glen once said he could take you in a fighting pit. Is this true?
Jerome Flynn: We’re old mates, so that’s probably why he said that, but I really don’t see that happening. I think it’d be a good contest, actually. I’m not going to get drawn in. I’d like to make him eat his words; that’s all I’ll say about that.
HBO: What is Bronn and Jaime’s relationship at this point?
Jerome Flynn: There’s an element of frustration in terms of how he’s being used. Jaime is talking about Bronn as if he’s his right-hand man with this elevated status, but Bronn is still getting tasked with dirty work. Bronn even tells him to go back to King’s Landing, but he sticks around and then makes Bronn basically go on a death run; it pisses Bronn off. Nobody’s going to be happy to be told to ride through that battlefield with the dragon ahead.
HBO: What was it like shooting the Episode 4 battle?
Jerome Flynn: It took four or five weeks to film that sequence, but the actual “death run” to Qyburn’s scorpion happened over a couple of days. And that one particular sequence was some of the most most exciting filming I’ve had. You’ve got all this extraordinary excellence around you — people who have been training for months to get every little piece of their puzzle right; stuntmen, armorers, everyone. It’s a whole dance going on. And suddenly you’re set free, and it’s the ultimate boy’s playground with a lot of adrenaline thrown in.
As an actor, it’s wonderful because it’s all laid out for you; you don’t have to worry about what to do with your hands, or how you look, because it’s all there in the action. You really do have to watch yourself. When I was on the run, I had to be super alert, because all sorts of stuff was going on. Even amidst the wonderful organization, there’s a lot of unpredictability because every take was different. But that’s actually part of what makes it great and authentic. The fresher it is, the more fun it is to do.
HBO: Qyburn’s weapon looked very menacing on screen. Did it actually work as you were filming?
Jerome Flynn: Yes, I shot that thing, so it was real. It was all part of the sequence and training. The armorers on this show are just geniuses, and they try to make everything as authentic as possible. It’s probably the coolest weapon I’m going to get to play with.
HBO: What was it like finally seeing the sequence all put-together with the dragon?
Jerome Flynn: I was surprised when I was watching it. I spent weeks on that sequence, but I was on the edge of my seat, the adrenaline was running — they really nailed it. Although since the day the battle aired, I’ve been a little unpopular, I have to say. My postman won’t speak to me because I shot the dragon.
HBO: What do you think of the fact that fans have been torn over which side to root for?
Jerome Flynn: How brilliant is that? And that’s Tyrion’s perspective, standing there. He’s got Daenerys when she gets shot down, and then his brother is who’s trying to kill her; Tyrion can’t win, really. But that’s part of the brilliance of where we’ve got to in the story after seven years of that character investment.
HBO: Bronn keeps insisting he¹s just in it for the money. Does he have any personal stakes with the Lannisters?
Jerome Flynn: His personal stake is there, in that that’s where his debts lie his dream-future is in Jaime’s hands. And that¹s what motivates him in the episode. The relationship he has is with Jaime, and he knows there¹s enough loyalty there to be rewarded quite handsomely in gold. He's looking out for himself.
HBO: Does Bronn still have more allegiance to Tyrion than Jaime in some way?
Jerome Flynn: It’s a different kettle of fish. He doesn’t have total disregard for Jaime, but he has a bond with Tyrion that’s hard for him to ignore. And the connection they’ve made with their sense of humor. If Bronn’s got a fondness for anybody in the world, I’d say Tyrion is probably close up there. He sees him as an underdog like himself.
HBO: How concerned should we be about Bronn at the end of the episode?
Jerome Flynn: I think it depends on if you care for him. If you’re really angry he’s been shooting at Drogon, then maybe not.
HBO: One last question: Iain Glen once said he could take you in a fighting pit. Is this true?
Jerome Flynn: We’re old mates, so that’s probably why he said that, but I really don’t see that happening. I think it’d be a good contest, actually. I’m not going to get drawn in. I’d like to make him eat his words; that’s all I’ll say about that.
packersfan
Footballguy
otb_lifer
Footballguy
i'm prolly one of the very few who misses Ramsay ... a great show needs great villains, and RB was the baddest of the lot.
Joffrey/Richie Aprile, Ramsay/Ralphie Cifaretto, Night King/Phil Leotardo ...
kentric
Footballguy
I agree. Need some true evil to go against the beautiful people.
My fave was Joffrey. He was one twisted mofo.
