What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (1 Viewer)

Because in the past she has used her wrath on those who were a threat. She also has shown she is more than capable of setting aside her ambitions, at least temporarily, to fight for the greater good. See the battle of Winterfell. Also, the enemy at Kings Landing had surrendered and was clearly defeated and done fighting. It makes very very little sense for her to decide at that point to go on a murderous rampage against innocent bystanders and destroy the city that she has wanted to rule over for so long. 

I mean I get the intent of the story to have her turn into the mad queen at some point. As others have said, it just wasn't executed all that well.
But that's the whole point.  She was threatened.  It's not just the mad queen thing where she suddenly went insane and started killing people.  She was about to lose the throne to jon snow and there was nothing she could do to stop it.

The moment jon told her about his lineage, she immediately realized that she was going to lose the throne to him, even though he said he didn't want it. 

She begged him not to tell anyone.  She told him what would happen if he did.  Bran said hey this is your choice.  He told sansa and arya anyways. 

She tried to get him to marry her.  Is that all i am to you?  Your queen?  He refused.  

Her whole story is her ascension from the property of her brother whose only attributes were her t&a to the khaleesi of carl drogo who used his power to rule to the mother of dragons who ruled her small clan to the breaker of chains who had an army of unsullied to the queen of mereen, and all the lessons she learned along the way brought her here.

She learned that a claim to the throne didn't mean much. Her brother wanted carl drogo to win him his throne back. He got a crown for a king.  She wanted to get into quarth. They almost left her in the red waste. She wanted a ship.  The spice merchant told her to f off. She told the dothraki who she was when they caught her alone. They dumped her with the other ex khaleesis. 

She had tried to rule with her claim alone.  The dothraki waited until carl drogo died and left.  

She learned that having the people's love mattered, but still wasn't enough. She saw that she didn't have the people's love in westeros. She saw that jon and sansa did.  

She had tried to rule with their love alone. And it worked with the unsullied.  But it wasn't enough  I'll end slavery, she said. We want slavery back,  said some of the slaves.  We want the fighting pits back, said others.  

She tried to rule with justice and love.  She executed that dude that killed a master against her orders.  They all hissed at her.  Mhysa is a master, said the graffiti.  Kill mhysa, said the sons of the harpy. 

She learned that people only follow strength.  Jorah said it time and again about the dothraki. She learned it when she burned the other carls in dosh kaleen - because they'd threatened her power. Remember, it wasn't the physical threat.  She'd been rescued.  She killed every one of them because she wanted to rule the dothraki.  

Everything from season one episode one led us to this point.  Like Michael corleone learning how to rule with fear but losing his humanity, she had learned the lessons with disastrous results. 

And when she arrived at dragonstone, she was ready to take kings landing by force, but she was advised not to. It cost her dearly.  She responded by destroying the money train and killing thousands.  

When jon and his allies tried to get a zombie in the dumbest plan ever, she saved them.  It cost her a dragon, but allowed her to get Cersei to help fight the dead.  Nope, betrayed again.

She fought the army of the dead,  and her armies got crushed.  Jon snow mentions oh by the way I'm the real king.  Good talk.  Later.  

She went back to king's landing and they killed her dragon and her best friend. She went back to her advisors and found out one had betrayed her, because the other had told him her secret, which had been told by jon. Everyone she knows except grey worm and drogon is dead or has betrayed her.  

And she still talks to jon and tries one last time, only to get rejected. 

When she said "all right then, let it be fear", she had exhausted all other options. There was no other option that allowed her to be queen. That was the threat, writ large by everyone around her betraying her in her final hour.

 
Well, being a a dragon does have other benefits aside from breathing fire. He could sneeze on her and blow her through a wall, he could simply sit on her because he is fairly large, he could probably fart in her general direction and do some serious damage. Can you imagine a dragon fart? Do dragons fart? Just spitballing here...

I hate when people do this but I'm going to anyhow. Don't think @sho nuff was saying that. I think he was implying from the first 3 minutes of episode 1 and throughout the entire 8 seasons, this whole WW thing was a major plot line. The ending of that plot line was abrupt and unexpected given the amount of time devoted to it over 7 previous seasons. Might be wrong but this is how I'm interpreting his statement.

They cooked a 12 year old disabled little girl that was as sweet as could be. You think Dany sitting the throne is too dark?
I don't think it was all that unexpected given the rushed timeline of being episode 3 of 6 of the final season.  

Im just saying all of the tying up of plotlines this season have been rushed and I have much more of a complaint about that than I do Dany going nuts. 

 
Why do you need more just because it’s a finale. It’s basically going to be the final pages of a book. Maybe even an epilogue. 
IDK, having the biggest splash of the season in the next-to-last episode seems like an odd choice for this show.

 
IDK, having the biggest splash of the season in the next-to-last episode seems like an odd choice for this show.
The second to last episode of every season has featured ned dying, Blackwater, the red wedding, the battle at the wall, stannis losing at winterfell, the battle of the bastards, the dragon dying and now this.  

 
The second to last episode of every season has featured ned dying, Blackwater, the red wedding, the battle at the wall, stannis losing at winterfell, the battle of the bastards, the dragon dying and now this.  
:goodposting:

yep, the penultimate episodes have always been the shakers, with the finales being the movers (as in setting up the next season)

 
I hate when people do this but I'm going to anyhow. Don't think @sho nuff was saying that. I think he was implying from the first 3 minutes of episode 1 and throughout the entire 8 seasons, this whole WW thing was a major plot line. The ending of that plot line was abrupt and unexpected given the amount of time devoted to it over 7 previous seasons. Might be wrong but this is how I'm interpreting his statement.
I don’t understand what you guys are looking for. Didn’t seem abrupt.  Plenty of episodes leading up to what was the longest combat battle in the history of television shows.  

 
Well, being a a dragon does have other benefits aside from breathing fire. He could sneeze on her and blow her through a wall, he could simply sit on her because he is fairly large, he could probably fart in her general direction and do some serious damage. Can you imagine a dragon fart? Do dragons fart? Just spitballing here...

I hate when people do this but I'm going to anyhow. Don't think @sho nuff was saying that. I think he was implying from the first 3 minutes of episode 1 and throughout the entire 8 seasons, this whole WW thing was a major plot line. The ending of that plot line was abrupt and unexpected given the amount of time devoted to it over 7 previous seasons. Might be wrong but this is how I'm interpreting his statement.

They cooked a 12 year old disabled little girl that was as sweet as could be. You think Dany sitting the throne is too dark?
There's no other way to end a plot line that involves an immense, unstoppable army that doesn't tire, doesn't need food nor get afraid of an opponent.  There couldn't be a long, drawn out battle.  The WW's were less an entity and more a storm.  

 
Ok let's try this

Bran warged into dany and made her kill all those people.  Then that makes jon kill her, and their armies are destroyed.  

There's now no armies left in the world.  

Which is good for bran, because the three eyed raven was created by the children after the night king experiment failed to kill all of the men in the world, living or undead. 

Bran wargs into the dragon and begins to kill everyone left, but is stopped by sansa who is forced to kill him and becomes ruler of the 7 kingdoms by default because everyone else is dead.

 
The only character not currently in King's Landing that we possibly see in the finale is Sansa imo.

I think Bran's story line was done once the NK died. I think the rest of the characters at Winterfell (Brienne, Tormund, etc) had their goodbye. I don't see a need for the Iron Island army, so Yara probably not going to show up either. Sansa is the wildcard.

 
I think it would be amazing if she killed Jon and Tyrion and just took power for 50 years. Epilogue of how much worse everything is under her rule. 


Would Dany be worse than Cersei?  Cersei was using all those people as basically a human shield. Just because she did what she did doesn't mean she's "breaking bottles over her head, pulling her pants down and :finger blu-blu-blu-bluing over her lips: crazy.  She's not Orson Lannister.   I don't think she has devolved into the worst of Ramsey and Joffery nor would rule like them.  

I wouldn't be surprised if the show ended with Dany on the Throne and the realm being prosperous; with her basically being dead inside, devoid of all love, trust  and companionship
I like these a lot actually, just wondering out loud if the show would go this way.   "Bittersweet" is how the end is described.  Seems like we got the bitter last week, so I'd guess the ending is more on the "sweet" side - as much as that is possible for what and who is left.  

 
I like the idea of Dany telling Drogon to kill Jon only to have Drogon hesitate (similar to the way he did with Varys) only to turn to Dany and hit her.

The only problem is I can't envision Jon wanting Drogon to live in Westeros after everything.

Maybe that happens, and then Jon flies Drogon to Valaryia to live out their days in solitude as penance for everything and to protect Westeros from Drogon and the Targaryean blood line for good.

It could work.

I'm having fun coming up with possible endings.

 
My memory is getting hazy.  Was the scene where she seemingly agrees with Tyrion's plan (call off the attack if the bells ring) and nods to Greyworm before or after her last scene with Jon?

 
I would totally be ok with Dany winning and the show being over like 30 minutes in, and then the rest is epilogue somehow.  Fine by me.
99.999999999999 % chance she's killed in the finale, much like it was for Cersei in e5 ... Dany nation better stock up on the Kleenex, she done. 

 
I like these a lot actually, just wondering out loud if the show would go this way.   "Bittersweet" is how the end is described.  Seems like we got the bitter last week, so I'd guess the ending is more on the "sweet" side - as much as that is possible for what and who is left.  
All I know for sure is, it’s going to be depressing when this is over and we can’t speculate anymore. The anticipation is half the fun. 

 
But that's the whole point.  She was threatened.  It's not just the mad queen thing where she suddenly went insane and started killing people.  She was about to lose the throne to jon snow and there was nothing she could do to stop it.

The moment jon told her about his lineage, she immediately realized that she was going to lose the throne to him, even though he said he didn't want it. 

She begged him not to tell anyone.  She told him what would happen if he did.  Bran said hey this is your choice.  He told sansa and arya anyways. 

She tried to get him to marry her.  Is that all i am to you?  Your queen?  He refused.  

Her whole story is her ascension from the property of her brother whose only attributes were her t&a to the khaleesi of carl drogo who used his power to rule to the mother of dragons who ruled her small clan to the breaker of chains who had an army of unsullied to the queen of mereen, and all the lessons she learned along the way brought her here.

She learned that a claim to the throne didn't mean much. Her brother wanted carl drogo to win him his throne back. He got a crown for a king.  She wanted to get into quarth. They almost left her in the red waste. She wanted a ship.  The spice merchant told her to f off. She told the dothraki who she was when they caught her alone. They dumped her with the other ex khaleesis. 

She had tried to rule with her claim alone.  The dothraki waited until carl drogo died and left.  

She learned that having the people's love mattered, but still wasn't enough. She saw that she didn't have the people's love in westeros. She saw that jon and sansa did.  

She had tried to rule with their love alone. And it worked with the unsullied.  But it wasn't enough  I'll end slavery, she said. We want slavery back,  said some of the slaves.  We want the fighting pits back, said others.  

She tried to rule with justice and love.  She executed that dude that killed a master against her orders.  They all hissed at her.  Mhysa is a master, said the graffiti.  Kill mhysa, said the sons of the harpy. 

She learned that people only follow strength.  Jorah said it time and again about the dothraki. She learned it when she burned the other carls in dosh kaleen - because they'd threatened her power. Remember, it wasn't the physical threat.  She'd been rescued.  She killed every one of them because she wanted to rule the dothraki.  

Everything from season one episode one led us to this point.  Like Michael corleone learning how to rule with fear but losing his humanity, she had learned the lessons with disastrous results. 

And when she arrived at dragonstone, she was ready to take kings landing by force, but she was advised not to. It cost her dearly.  She responded by destroying the money train and killing thousands.  

When jon and his allies tried to get a zombie in the dumbest plan ever, she saved them.  It cost her a dragon, but allowed her to get Cersei to help fight the dead.  Nope, betrayed again.

She fought the army of the dead,  and her armies got crushed.  Jon snow mentions oh by the way I'm the real king.  Good talk.  Later.  

She went back to king's landing and they killed her dragon and her best friend. She went back to her advisors and found out one had betrayed her, because the other had told him her secret, which had been told by jon. Everyone she knows except grey worm and drogon is dead or has betrayed her.  

And she still talks to jon and tries one last time, only to get rejected. 

When she said "all right then, let it be fear", she had exhausted all other options. There was no other option that allowed her to be queen. That was the threat, writ large by everyone around her betraying her in her final hour.
Great write up but in the end the crown was more important to her than thousands of innocent people's lives.  She is no better than her father and brother.

 
99.999999999999 % chance she's killed in the finale, much like it was for Cersei in e5 ... Dany nation better stock up on the Kleenex, she done. 
I'm not sure there is much of that nation left.  You know, after the genocide.

I still think a throne room scene similar to year one with Eddard and Cersei, only this time with Jon and Dany would be delicious.

 
Just took a peek at RT and this season is the only score not in the 90%+ range, and each episode's score have gotten worse. 

The Episode scores in order go: 92-88-75-57-48

 
Great write up but in the end the crown was more important to her than thousands of innocent people's lives.  She is no better than her father and brother.
... or Cersei

I'm not sure there is much of that nation left.  You know, after the genocide.
not so sure 'bout that ... the fanaticism this show has spawned, especially amongst the fans of the key players, is borderline bat#### in many quarters ... diehard Dany devotees really couldn't give a flyin' fiddler's #### in the final analysis.  

I still think a throne room scene similar to year one with Eddard and Cersei, only this time with Jon and Dany would be delicious.
i could sign off on this, i just get a very strong feeling Arya and Sansa will have a very big say in all of this, if not be the one(s) to deliver the blow ... or, as i theorized earlier, maybe Ser Brienne does the deed in defense of Lady Sansa.  

and what of Dany's devoted hordes? i mean, Greyworm pulled a Lt. Calley out there ... #### him, too.

the Dothraki and Unsullied loyalists - who deals with her troops? Tormund & the Wildlings gonna come back?  Yara and the Iron Born? everybody gang up on the Mad Queen's gang?

 
Great write up but in the end the crown was more important to her than thousands of innocent people's lives.  She is no better than her father and brother.
Tyrion - The people who live there they're not your enemies.  They're innocents, like the ones you liberated in mereen.

Dany - In mereen the slaves turned on their masters and liberated the city themselves the moment i arrived. 

They're afraid. Anyone who resists us he will see his family butchered.  You can't expect them to be heroes.  They're hostages.

They are.  In a tyrants grip. Whose fault is that?  Mine. 

What does it matter whose fault it is?  Thousands of children will die if the city burns. 

Your sister knows how to use her enemies weaknesses against them. That's what she thinks our mercy is. Weakness. 

I beg you my queen...

But she's wrong. Mercy is our strength.  Our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant.  Ready the unsullied.  Tonight you sail for kings landing to join the northern armies

That's not the mad king burning people with wildfire for fun.  

This is the war to end all wars. Kings landing is the metaphorical Hiroshima and after years of world war she flew in from another continent and rained fire on one city to ensure that a tyrant never ruled again.  Peace through superior firepower.  

 
My memory is getting hazy.  Was the scene where she seemingly agrees with Tyrion's plan (call off the attack if the bells ring) and nods to Greyworm before or after her last scene with Jon?
yea it was a courtesy nod anyways, the darwf and greyworm were standing there.    Greyworm looked like yea whatever....

 
Tyrion - The people who live there they're not your enemies.  They're innocents, like the ones you liberated in mereen.

Dany - In mereen the slaves turned on their masters and liberated the city themselves the moment i arrived. 

They're afraid. Anyone who resists us he will see his family butchered.  You can't expect them to be heroes.  They're hostages.

They are.  In a tyrants grip. Whose fault is that?  Mine. 

What does it matter whose fault it is?  Thousands of children will die if the city burns. 

Your sister knows how to use her enemies weaknesses against them. That's what she thinks our mercy is. Weakness. 

I beg you my queen...

But she's wrong. Mercy is our strength.  Our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant.  Ready the unsullied.  Tonight you sail for kings landing to join the northern armies

That's not the mad king burning people with wildfire for fun.  

This is the war to end all wars. Kings landing is the metaphorical Hiroshima and after years of world war she flew in from another continent and rained fire on one city to ensure that a tyrant never ruled again.  Peace through superior firepower.  
Although in general I'm with you on your views, the problem with the "peace through superior firepower" train of thought is that the burning the city down doesn't fit with that. Destroying the red keep and burning it and Cersei down? Fine, no problem with that. The rest has to be explained through another means. And I'm ok with that means being "she flipped tfo".

 
If Jon doesn't end up on the throne, doesn't that mean that Bran had no point in the entire story (other than to be bait for the NK)?  Bran's only meaningful role is confirming Jon's lineage.

 
Just took a peek at RT and this season is the only score not in the 90%+ range, and each episode's score have gotten worse. 

The Episode scores in order go: 92-88-75-57-48
I think the declining scores are just because more and more people are having their theories squashed the further in we get  :lol:  Stand by for a record low when it's something nobody predicted for the ending. 

 
If Jon doesn't end up on the throne, doesn't that mean that Bran had no point in the entire story (other than to be bait for the NK)?  Bran's only meaningful role is confirming Jon's lineage.
Well you forgot about being pushed out the window and the assasin attempt and the dagger..pretty much started the war of the 5 kings........but yeah

 
I don’t understand what you guys are looking for. Didn’t seem abrupt.  Plenty of episodes leading up to what was the longest combat battle in the history of television shows.  
That was not a "battle" at all. It was a dragon swooping back and forth for 45 minutes lighting everything on fire.

The battle with the WW in episode 3 was much better.  

 
Tyrion - The people who live there they're not your enemies.  They're innocents, like the ones you liberated in mereen.

Dany - In mereen the slaves turned on their masters and liberated the city themselves the moment i arrived. 

They're afraid. Anyone who resists us he will see his family butchered.  You can't expect them to be heroes.  They're hostages.

They are.  In a tyrants grip. Whose fault is that?  Mine. 

What does it matter whose fault it is?  Thousands of children will die if the city burns. 

Your sister knows how to use her enemies weaknesses against them. That's what she thinks our mercy is. Weakness. 

I beg you my queen...

But she's wrong. Mercy is our strength.  Our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant.  Ready the unsullied.  Tonight you sail for kings landing to join the northern armies

That's not the mad king burning people with wildfire for fun.  

This is the war to end all wars. Kings landing is the metaphorical Hiroshima and after years of world war she flew in from another continent and rained fire on one city to ensure that a tyrant never ruled again.  Peace through superior firepower.  
She killed thousands of people, including children needlessly.  Look at the expression of everyone's face when the bell was rung:  the battle was over, even Cersei knew it. 

The look on Dany's face was pure rage as she mowed down innocent civilians in the streets of Kings Landing.  It sure didn't look like peace was on her mind.

 
That was not a "battle" at all. It was a dragon swooping back and forth for 45 minutes lighting everything on fire.
THIS. 

did anyone on Dany's side suffer so much as a scraped knee? ferchrissakes, the Golden Co. went down like $2 hooker. the Lannister dimwits let Arya/Hound waltz right into KL ... Euron's fleet was fried instantaneously- if any of the Dothraki/Unsullied/Northeners took a kill shot i must've missed it  :shrug:

yeah, the Hound doesn't count - that was Clagaene family biz - "it was between the brothers, Kay"

 
Tyrion - The people who live there they're not your enemies.  They're innocents, like the ones you liberated in mereen.

Dany - In mereen the slaves turned on their masters and liberated the city themselves the moment i arrived. 

They're afraid. Anyone who resists us he will see his family butchered.  You can't expect them to be heroes.  They're hostages.

They are.  In a tyrants grip. Whose fault is that?  Mine. 

What does it matter whose fault it is?  Thousands of children will die if the city burns. 

Your sister knows how to use her enemies weaknesses against them. That's what she thinks our mercy is. Weakness. 

I beg you my queen...

But she's wrong. Mercy is our strength.  Our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant.  Ready the unsullied.  Tonight you sail for kings landing to join the northern armies

That's not the mad king burning people with wildfire for fun.  

This is the war to end all wars. Kings landing is the metaphorical Hiroshima and after years of world war she flew in from another continent and rained fire on one city to ensure that a tyrant never ruled again.  Peace through superior firepower.  
And that all would have been fine, had she done it BEFORE the surrender.  

 
Well you forgot about being pushed out the window and the assasin attempt and the dagger..pretty much started the war of the 5 kings........but yeah
The war of the five kings may have happened anyway after Arryn's investigation and Stannis learning that Cersei's children weren't Robert's, but I wasn't talking about his role as a plot device, but as a character.   

As a character, Bran may have well been an inanimate object.   He, personally, does nothing and accomplishes nothing in the show other than being bait for the NK.   Pretty much the most impact he had through his own actions was creating Hodor.

 
If Jon doesn't end up on the throne, doesn't that mean that Bran had no point in the entire story (other than to be bait for the NK)?  Bran's only meaningful role is confirming Jon's lineage.
That is a pretty important role wouldn’t you say?

 
i think its funny people still think Bran is going to do anything other than sitting and looking stupid

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top