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*** GAME THREAD *** New England v. Philadelphia (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter xyrza
- Start date
Fantasy Man
Footballguy
4.5
cracKer
Shawn Culcasi
Both teams are coming off of fairly dominating performances. A win by New England here has to set them in the dynasty class of the 'Niner and Cowboy teams of the 80's/90's. The Eagles finally had a championship game appearance pay off and they're looking to start a run of their own.
GO EAGLES!!!
GO EAGLES!!!
Dynasty
Footballguy
Patriots are the betting favorite.
Patriots -6.5; o/u 46.5
http://www2.pinnaclesports.com/vwGuestLine...portSubType=NFL
Patriots -6.5; o/u 46.5
http://www2.pinnaclesports.com/vwGuestLine...portSubType=NFL
Sundays Rule
Footballguy
Let the hype machine and endless musical montages begin!!!
montanatorice
Footballguy
let the "will TO play or not" hype begin
Sundays Rule
Footballguy
Im no philly fan but I hope they pull out a huge upset.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Just got home from what was EASILY the best sports day of my life. All the shoveling over the last two days, driving 30 mph on snow covered highways, and freezing my twig and berries off for these many hours was so unbelievably worth it...ABSOLUTELY GIDDY!
I would expect the Pats to be 5.5 point favorites or so, perhaps higher and deservedly so; they're dominating right now in a way few though possible. Belichick tying Vince Lombardi
at 9-1 in the postseason, and the way the team one week shuts down the league's best offense, and then the next week puts up 41 points against the league's best defense just shouldn't even be possible.I can't wait for the game, as a fan I honestly throw all the analysis out the door for the next two weeks. I won't argue with anyone that points out why and how the Patriots should win, but it simply won't matter to me, I believe we'll find a way to get it done.
cracKer
Shawn Culcasi
I don't. By bringing in the "salary cap", I assume we're talking about player turnover. Who have the Patriots lost since 2001? They've upgraded at running back (Corey Dillon over Antowain Smith), wide receiver (Deion Branch & David Givens over some scrubs) and safety (Rodney Harrison over Lawyer Milloy). The loss of Ted Washington was a big hole that they've filled through the draft (Wilfork) and free-agency (Traylor). Bruschi signing under his market value certainly doesn't hurt.Milloy was right in what he recently said about the Patriots, but I don't think that it's a negative towards their franchise. How Belichick gets these guys to play above themselves, as a unit, is what I find astounding.
Johnny Ice
Footballguy
Not sure about that, maybe with a healthy T.O. but McNabb is playing shorthanded with Stinkston, an aspiring pro wrestler Freddie Mitchell, and super gnat Greg Lewis. McNabb has to win this one with his legs.
Well, I think the 1990s Yankee teams were amazing and yes they would probably destroy and champ in some hypothetical free agency period in the far future.However, the accomplishment of an organization as a whole to get the same results but in a free agency era elevates them to me. Its ok if others disagree.
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Cocky Crow
Footballguy
This is going to be a lonngggggg two weeks. I wonder if there will be a sig bet??? (kind of strange going into the off season) GO EAGLES and please please please 
rayingemoticon: let me win the lottery (Eagles season ticket holder) pleeeeease
and please please please rayingemoticon: let me win the lottery (Eagles season ticket holder) pleeeeease
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
In before this gets ugly.The Eagles open at the same number the Panthers were last year. Its 7 across most sites right now with a total at 47.I would be blown away if Owens did NOT play. Word on the field from the team after the game was that he would be ready. I can't see him not giving this a go.Before anyone brings up last years NE win @ Philly I'd like to point out that Taylor and Dawkins did not play that day due to injuries from the tampa monday night game. I believe Troy Vincent was hobbled or didn't play as well - so lets not go back almost 2 full seasons - lot of different players on both sides.
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Urinal Mint
Footballguy
The Pats have opened as 7-pt favorites at pinnaclesports.com 
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
McNabb will or can win it with his legs? I saw during the Eagle/Falcon game where McNabb run on a 3rd 'n long play, but he ran out of bounds, about 2-yards short of the 1st down. Even the announcers said that McNabb could/should have gotten the first down. He doesn't do the little things that a Tom Brady does so, okay you take the Eagles, less Owens (ESPN's "Mort" says unless there is a miracle he WILL NOT play) and I'll take the Pats.
railman305
Footballguy
this shouldnt be an issue with TOHE WILL DRESS FOR THE GAME AND PLAY (to what extent and how effective i dont know)but he is gonna be dressed for the game its a lock NO DOUBT IN MY MINDPS he loooked fine dancing on the sideline on the big screen at the game
Discussion points:How does this Patriots team measure up to their 2001 and 2003 clubs?How do the 2004 Eagles measure up as an opponent compared to the 2003 Panthers and 2001 Rams?How do the 2004 Eagles measure up compared to their previous incarnations that lost the NFC title game?
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
2-8-PHI37 (9:33) D.McNabb right end ran ob at PHI 43 for 6 yards. 3-2-PHI43 (9:03) D.McNabb pass to C.Lewis to ATL 45 for 12 yards (C.Hall). They were up 20-10 at the time, it was 2nd and long, and the resulting 3rd and 2 was converted. Going for the first down was completely unnecessary, not a sure thing by any stretch, and would have meant risking a turnover or injury. McNabb made the right play and the smart play.
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Insoxicated
This Eagles team is much like Indy (fairly 1 dimensional passing team) except they have a considerably weaker passing game (with TO in a limited role... it's silly to think he'll be back 100%) and a considerably better defense. New England will take away McNabb's targets and force them to run up the gullet of this Patriots Defense.... which, as we saw tonight with Pittsburgh...won't turn out pretty. The Eagles only hope is that their Defense keeps them in this one. The problem is this Philly Rushing D is NOT GOOD. I'd expect Dillon to have a big day, going for 100+ and at least 1 TD. Frankly, the Philly D Gives up a lot of yards, but just stopped the weak NFC from scoring... The Pats should be much more capable of finishing in the red zone and WILL score at LEAST 25-30 points on them. I just can't see the Eagles putting much more than 17-21 ponts on the Pats in this game.... McNabb is looking good, but it's against some mediocre teams....Patriots by 10
thesurfshop19
Footballguy
In my estimation ....1. The 2004 Patriots are a bit better than the 2003 version and a lot better than the 2001 version. Their 14-2 record with the bullseye on their back combined with their amazing playoff run so far means that, in my eyes, if they win this title they may be the best team in the NFL since the Redskins in 1991. It's just amazing at how versatile they are ... and that's a testament to the players just as much as the coaching. This is no "blue-collar" team -- there's incredible talent on all sides of the ball.2. The 2004 Eagles are stronger than the 2003 Panthers, but I don't think they're as strong as the 2001 Rams. That Rams offense truly was unstoppable unless you could get them to turn the ball over. It's tough to say that about many other teams in league history.3. I think the 2004 Eagles are the strongest in this run. Easy to say, since they've finally gotten over the hump. But if T.O. is healthy, it's tough to put any of the previous teams ahead of them, as downfield receiving was likely their biggest weakness in the previous 3 years.Given this, that's 2 to 1 in favor of the Patriots. I think they take this one, 31-17, even if T.O. is playing.
Tony Jabroni
Footballguy
I shoot in a dart league on Sunday's, and the drunks at the bar thought NE would be a 7+ favorite (Some were sold on double digits 
). I said 6. Close enough.
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CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Come on Shawn, I was referring to Johnny Ice's comment about McNabb going to have to win it with his legs. It has nothing to do with what yardage Brady might have gotten.As for reply on McNabb not going for the 1st down on 2ND (not 3rd) and 8, nooo! I have to disagree big time here. This is a perfect reason why McNabb hasn't won the big game yet. It's the little things that make Brady a winner. All he had to do was turn in instead of out, put his head down and dive for the 1st down.
I have a key stat I have not released before that is 12-2 in this game over the past 14 years.I deleted it because I think I'll just put it in with my overall analysis which will come later once the mystery over Terrell Owens' playing time gets a little clearer.No sense in scattering my analysis over several posts in this thread. I'll keep it to one post.
thesurfshop19
Footballguy
Saw it for a few seconds and was responding when I saw it was gone!Just wondering ... since you are removing week 17 from both the Eagles and Patriots, shouldn't you remove all similar weeks from previous teams as well? It just seems like we give an unfair advantage to this year's teams by taking out a "bad" game, if teams in prior years did the same thing.
You could do it in theory, if you wanted to refine the data.But for one, where do you get the data? pro-football-reference.com only goes back to 1995 for Jim Kelly's game-by-game numbers, for example. How can I tell if he sat out week 16 in his super bowl years, or played the first half, or went the whole way?
For example, I know from the game recap that Tom Brady was pulled in the third quarter in week 17 this year. In ten years, that information will be lost.
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thesurfshop19
Footballguy
Good point.So in this case should we use all 16 games for all Super Bowl teams? What do you think?You could do it in theory, if you wanted to refine the data.But for one, where do you get the data? pro-football-reference.com only goes back to 1995 for Jim Kelly's game-by-game numbers, for example. How can I tell if he sat out week 16 in his super bowl years, or played the first half, or went the whole way?
Billy Bats
Footballguy
So much for the great Michael Vick. I hope they keep showing his highlights from this game, with Eagles ALL OVER HIM, and Vick generally looking clueless trying to find a receiver down field.The Eagles D quietly has been dominating. There's no arguing that, as they have given up the fewest points per game in the league. I hope everyone keeps saying the Eagles have no chance, they will be surprised at what happens in two weeks.
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
New England wins in such diverse ways it's scary. Indy's #1 offense??? Held to 3 points 
.....Pittsburgh's #1 defense??? Blast them for 41 points. To say this is impressive is an understatement. But I pick Philly to win this game because of their defense/special teams. Reid and staff are undefeated following bye weeks and should extend the streak to 10, despite the present voting consensus to the contrary. I expect Jimmy Johnson to use the added bye week to come up with a scheme to keep the Pats' offense in check. Specifically, the defensive backfield. Philly gets at least 2 turnovers and scores a defensive or special teams TD to seal the game.Philly 27NE 24
.....Pittsburgh's #1 defense??? Blast them for 41 points. To say this is impressive is an understatement. But I pick Philly to win this game because of their defense/special teams. Reid and staff are undefeated following bye weeks and should extend the streak to 10, despite the present voting consensus to the contrary. I expect Jimmy Johnson to use the added bye week to come up with a scheme to keep the Pats' offense in check. Specifically, the defensive backfield. Philly gets at least 2 turnovers and scores a defensive or special teams TD to seal the game.Philly 27NE 24
falconeyed
Footballguy
I might be the only one who thinks that this one won't be close. NE is going to run away with this one. Someone else already said it, but in the matter of two weeks the Pats managed to embarass both the league's top offense and defense. It could be along the lines of one of the late 80s / early 90s Super Bowl laughers ... or like the BAL / NYG Super Bowl of a few years ago. As much as I hate to say it, NE is going to win another one. I thought PIT was a lock to win today, and NE proved me wrong.NE 34PHI 14
babydemon90
Footballguy
For the Eagles to win, McNabb is going is going to have to have a GREAT game. Typically, McNabb is NOT a QB who turns the ball over much at all. The last 2 NFC champ losses though, he did just, and Philly lost. I realize this seems common sense...but McNabb is going to need to not turn the ball over at all in this one! THAT, IMHO, is going to be key. Pats offense will get some. Philly has a better secondary then Pitt, or just about any other team in the league for that matter, so I expect Brady's stat's will be pedestrian.Dillon will get his. Hopefully he can be kept in check, but he'll get some yeards. The real X factor in this game is going to be the Philly offense vs the NE defense. I really think they showed something today by outrushing the league's best rushing attack. They showed they CAN run the ball when they have to. They're going to have to be able to do that in the Super Bowl to be successful.
ScoobySnack
Footballguy
Cracker...I would have to argue with your point here. Though the records are true but they are deceiving. NE beat Clev,Balit,Cincy,Rams and lost to Steelers ... The Eagles beat Clev,Balti and lost to the Steeelers,Cincy,Rams but the loses to the Rams and Cincy came in wks 16-17 when their starters didn't play so basically they were both 2-1 against common opponents.
bostonfred
Footballguy
That's not the way to beat the Pats IMO. Want to beat the Patriots offense? Scheme to beat your own defense, then scheme to change your team to beat that offense. The Pats' only offensive tendency is that they change their offensive identity dramatically from weak to weak to beat the opposing defense. Same thing on defense, really. The reason the Pats can scheme so well is they have so many tweeners on defense, 2-3 TEs on offense who can catch the ball and block, WRs who can all catch the ball, a couple RBs who can run, block and catch, and Tom Brady. They can really take on any game plan necessary to beat a given opponent. Going into the Pittsburgh game, people said the Pats were going to have to play smashmouth football and beat the Steelers at their own game. Everyone knew what the Steelers were going to do, and it was a question of whether the Pats could beat it. Guess what? Brady goes over the top twice to Branch, hits a couple huge plays early, and keeps the Steelers D moving all game. But there is a vulnerability. When the Pats stood up the Colts on the goal line on that first and goal from the 2 a couple years ago, they said that the Colts had gone for 4th and 1 x number of times in the past, and that they had run almost every single time. So the Pats played run on the goal line and stopped it. The next time the Pats played the Colts, the same situation came up at midfield. Manning looks at the D, remembers last time, and audibles to a naked boot.
The result? A 17 yard run. If you want to beat the most adaptable team in the league, you have to be so good they can't adapt, or be more adaptable yourself. We've seen a couple teams that were very good at what they do, and the Pats were able to prepare for them and then some. I think the only way to neutralize that preparation is to be different when the game comes.
The Commish
Footballguy
I think that is his point.....even in the era of the salary cap, they have put together a team where they keep the turnover to a minimum. It's amazing that they have been able to keep all the players they have. There isn't another team in the league that has surfed the cap as well as the Pats. Football is two basic parts now.....surviving the cap is the first part, then executing on the field is the second part.....they have done BOTH better than anyone in the NFL and their post season run has proven it.
I am not a Pats fan, but give credit where it's due.
R.P. McMurphy
Footballguy
The thing I liked most about the Eagles/Falcons game was that Reid coached to win, instead of the last few years where he coached not to lose. There's a big difference between the two and he proved that he's finally learned his lesson after three years of coming up short. The fake FG and amount of rushing yards proved that he's prepared to do whatever it takes to win. I was also glad to see Atlanta held under 100 yards rushing as a team. That's incredible considering that Vick wanted to run every time he dropped back. IMO that game should have been a shutout, but the refs kept drives alive on close calls. It happens, but for them to beat the Pats it can't happen often. If the Eagles don't leave points on the field then they win. If they turn the ball over and make stupid mistakes they lose. I think both teams are very close and are the class of their conferences. NE has been there before, so here to hoping they take the Eagles lightly.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
As the season has gone on, it's mind boggling the difference Jermiah Trotter has made for the team. At first it was a novelty that he re-signed for a minimum deal, and then after getting pasted by the Steelers, it was intriguing to see him re-inserted into the starting lineup. But I still wondered what he had left in those knees, because local reports said he couldn't even move laterally at the start of training camp. But he's not only totally revamped the Eagles rushing defense, he's become the leader of the defense again (for those who don't know, Trot was the 2-time team MVP before leaving for the Skins), both in his play and his emotional intensity.Also, for a team that spent the better part of the last two years with half our defensive line injured, to see Derrick Burgess and Hollis Thomas making huge plays as part of the rotation was a thing of infinite beauty.Fantasy Man
Footballguy
This is a great post and exactly on point. The Panthers last year did exactly that. The Patriots I'm sure prepared for and schemed to take away the smash mouth running duo of Davis and Foster, as that's how the Panthers won all year and in the playoffs. John Fox turned the tables and aired it out all game with pretty damn good success, especially in the second half. He caught the Pats off guard. The Steelers couldn't really do that because while they had great offensive talent all around, the key to adapability to switch from a run offense to a pass offense is the QB, and there's no way you let a rookie loose 40+ times. NE KNEW what the Steelers had to do to win the game and tried to take it away, and did.Andy Reid has that option. He's not saving Westbrook for next week. He can hand him the ball 30 times if he wants/needs to. He can bring in Dorsey Levens for 15 carries if he wants to. Not sure if that's what he's thinking, but it is an option.Andy Reid is 8-0 after byes in his career. He knows what he's doing. He will have an offensive gameplan that will be effective. It's going to be up to the players to execute it.That's not the way to beat the Pats IMO. Want to beat the Patriots offense? Scheme to beat your own defense, then scheme to change your team to beat that offense. The Pats' only offensive tendency is that they change their offensive identity dramatically from weak to weak to beat the opposing defense. Same thing on defense, really. The reason the Pats can scheme so well is they have so many tweeners on defense, 2-3 TEs on offense who can catch the ball and block, WRs who can all catch the ball, a couple RBs who can run, block and catch, and Tom Brady. They can really take on any game plan necessary to beat a given opponent. Going into the Pittsburgh game, people said the Pats were going to have to play smashmouth football and beat the Steelers at their own game. Everyone knew what the Steelers were going to do, and it was a question of whether the Pats could beat it. Guess what? Brady goes over the top twice to Branch, hits a couple huge plays early, and keeps the Steelers D moving all game. But there is a vulnerability. When the Pats stood up the Colts on the goal line on that first and goal from the 2 a couple years ago, they said that the Colts had gone for 4th and 1 x number of times in the past, and that they had run almost every single time. So the Pats played run on the goal line and stopped it. The next time the Pats played the Colts, the same situation came up at midfield. Manning looks at the D, remembers last time, and audibles to a naked boot.
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