Game Thread W10 - Minnesota V Green Bay (1 Viewer)

[Hinezer]

No, the Fox crew wondered how Ross could MISS the ball laying on the ground right in front of him... 

Yeah, Ross didn't know the ball was there, even though he grabbed the ball.

I didn't mean miss in the sense of "not see". I meant miss in the sense of "not be able to corral".Obviously he saw the ball. Obviously he was not able to corral the ball with the other 22 players on the field wrestling for it.

But the thing is, in the video I posted, it showed that Ross "coraraled" the ball. What I took from the exact same comment by the FOX guys was that there was no way that Ross didn't recover it.Like I said, expect an NFL apology this week on one, if not both of the fumbles.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

No, the Fox crew wondered how Ross could MISS the ball laying on the ground right in front of him... 

Yeah, Ross didn't know the ball was there, even though he grabbed the ball.

I didn't mean miss in the sense of "not see". I meant miss in the sense of "not be able to corral".

Obviously he saw the ball. Obviously he was not able to corral the ball with the other 22 players on the field wrestling for it.

But the thing is, in the video I posted, it showed that Ross "coraraled" the ball. What I took from the exact same comment by the FOX guys was that there was no way that Ross didn't recover it.Like I said, expect an NFL apology this week on one, if not both of the fumbles.

Quoting from my post above:

You seriously need to take off the Homer glasses if you think the play ends there. The Packer player on the left side of the frame has just as much right to wrestle over that ball as the Viking player does. They both have their mitts on it.

The video shows the Packer player is tangled up with Ross on the recovery - no clear possession is established in that clip, and the clip ends at a very convenient moment, for a Viking fan. Oh - and I'd love to hear a copy of the Fox guys supposedly saying that the refs blew that call. I saw that part of the game, and they never said it. And they shouldn't have.

That was honestly no different than the dozens of piles like that that occur on any given NFL Sunday. I would not expect an apology for the Ferguson play. I wasn't on the bottom of the pile, so I don't know who ended up with the ball. But how/why would an officiating crew blow a call like that. It's a matter of finding out who at the bottom of the pile has the ball. I think based on the ref's call, we can assume that a Packer had the ball at the bottom of the pile.

You think that this is a case of the Packers getting a homefield call. There is no way that an officiating crew, even if they were doing something illegal like betting on the Packers, would call it Packers ball if a Viking had the ball at the bottom of the pile. They'd be taking a HUGE RISK, hoping that Fox hadn't caught the play on tape.

I can say that just because Ross had the best shot at the ball initially doesn't mean that the play is dead - Vikings ball. What happens in the pile is anybody's guess and the only call that the officials can make - and this goes for every loose ball pile up in every NFL game in every NFL city - is to award the ball to the player who comes out of the pile with the ball. Why would that be any different here?

I guess we can argue until we're blue in the face (or blue in the fingers, I guess), but I don't think that you will be getting that league apology that you're expecting for the Ferguson play.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

No, the Fox crew wondered how Ross could MISS the ball laying on the ground right in front of him... 

Yeah, Ross didn't know the ball was there, even though he grabbed the ball.

I didn't mean miss in the sense of "not see". I meant miss in the sense of "not be able to corral".Obviously he saw the ball. Obviously he was not able to corral the ball with the other 22 players on the field wrestling for it.

But the thing is, in the video I posted, it showed that Ross "coraraled" the ball. What I took from the exact same comment by the FOX guys was that there was no way that Ross didn't recover it.Like I said, expect an NFL apology this week on one, if not both of the fumbles.

One last comment and then I'm done for the night:On your video, pause it at the 0:15 mark of the clip. There is a white/gray gloved left hand coming out of the right side of the ball. Isn't it reasonable to assume that this is the Packer player's left hand (coming from the opposite direction of the Viking player)? Assuming that this is the case, that Packer player was in position to get possession of the ball, and easily could've wrestled the ball away during the play...we don't know what happened in the seconds after this clip ends...Did it look like Ross should've had the upper hand? Sure...but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to being on the bottom of the pile.

 

[faede]

But wait...in the endzone, the play ended when Fisher had two hands on the ball and had control of the ball. Same thing here, except he wasn't a Packer, so Ross didn't have control.

Rules in the end zone are different.The second there's control it's a TD. Just like if a RB crosses the line then fumbles, it's not a fumble. Same if a receiver catches the ball.On the field of play obviously that is not the case. In a fumble situation the ball can change hands many times.. and because possession means nothing at that point, so bet it.On the other hand, the second there is possession inside the goal line.. "something" has happened fumble or touchback.Fischer lost the ball, then because he was the one to recover it.. he did so. As long as he has control of it, it's a touchdown, instantly, no questions asked. The same could have been said for a viking in that situation. Had they got control of the ball in the endzone, play stops and it's a touchback. It seemed pretty clear that two packers were on top of the ball (one being fischer) before the scrum begain. Instantly (because Fischer is the controler) it's a TD. Play stops.At the end of the game, obviously this wasn't the case.

 

[Hinezer]

No, the Fox crew wondered how Ross could MISS the ball laying on the ground right in front of him... 

Yeah, Ross didn't know the ball was there, even though he grabbed the ball.

I didn't mean miss in the sense of "not see". I meant miss in the sense of "not be able to corral".Obviously he saw the ball. Obviously he was not able to corral the ball with the other 22 players on the field wrestling for it.

But the thing is, in the video I posted, it showed that Ross "coraraled" the ball. What I took from the exact same comment by the FOX guys was that there was no way that Ross didn't recover it.Like I said, expect an NFL apology this week on one, if not both of the fumbles.

One last comment and then I'm done for the night:On your video, pause it at the 0:15 mark of the clip. There is a white/gray gloved left hand coming out of the right side of the ball. Isn't it reasonable to assume that this is the Packer player's left hand (coming from the opposite direction of the Viking player)? Assuming that this is the case, that Packer player was in position to get possession of the ball, and easily could've wrestled the ball away during the play...we don't know what happened in the seconds after this clip ends...Did it look like Ross should've had the upper hand? Sure...but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to being on the bottom of the pile.

Who came up with the ball after the pile was dismantled? Larry Ned, a Viking. Ross had it first and should have been down by contact. If they allowed it to continue, then shouldn't the last person with the ball be the person who recovered it, not the middleman?It was a terrible call that decided the game. The NFL bias in Green Bay is pretty obvious when the Vikings recover a fumble and it goes back to the Packers.

 

[Eric Stratton]

Who came up with the ball after the pile was dismantled? Larry Ned, a Viking. Ross had it first and should have been down by contact. If they allowed it to continue, then shouldn't the last person with the ball be the person who recovered it, not the middleman?It was a terrible call that decided the game. The NFL bias in Green Bay is pretty obvious when the Vikings recover a fumble and it goes back to the Packers.

Where you on the field and saw what the refs did?

 

[Tony Jabroni]

Who's calling in tomorrow?Woooo!!! :cheese:

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

But wait...in the endzone, the play ended when Fisher had two hands on the ball and had control of the ball. Same thing here, except he wasn't a Packer, so Ross didn't have control.

Rules in the end zone are different.The second there's control it's a TD. Just like if a RB crosses the line then fumbles, it's not a fumble. Same if a receiver catches the ball.On the field of play obviously that is not the case. In a fumble situation the ball can change hands many times.. and because possession means nothing at that point, so bet it.On the other hand, the second there is possession inside the goal line.. "something" has happened fumble or touchback.Fischer lost the ball, then because he was the one to recover it.. he did so. As long as he has control of it, it's a touchdown, instantly, no questions asked. The same could have been said for a viking in that situation. Had they got control of the ball in the endzone, play stops and it's a touchback. It seemed pretty clear that two packers were on top of the ball (one being fischer) before the scrum begain. Instantly (because Fischer is the controler) it's a TD. Play stops.At the end of the game, obviously this wasn't the case.

I seriously think you Viking fans are just reaching on these complaints...If you watch objectively, you'll see plays like this every week in the nfl...I didn't see Ned come out of the pile with the ball, but I'll take your word for it that he was running aroud with the ball after the play. That said, the ref probably acknowledged the Packer player's possession, the Packer dropped the ball, Ned picked it up and you guys fell for it. A lot of big David Blaine fans up in Minnesota, I guess...Both faede and I explained the difference in the rules of field of play vs. endzone...the plays were both called correctly. You guys will just have to sit and sulk about the Lambeau 'homer refs' until Christmas Eve. Don't too hard...your tears'll freeze to your goldarn cheeks up there, don'tcha know?

 

[Fantasy Ninja]

As far as I'm concerned, the Vikes are in their annual late-season swoon anyway so it's not like they are going to win the division anyway. It's over, the Packers won, get over it. Maybe if Tice wouldn't have played Randy Moss streak extension games earlier in the year, the outcome would have been different. Don't blame the refs. That's pretty weak.

 

[Banger]

As far as I'm concerned, the Vikes are in their annual late-season swoon anyway so it's not like they are going to win the division anyway. It's over, the Packers won, get over it. Maybe if Tice wouldn't have played Randy Moss streak extension games earlier in the year, the outcome would have been different. Don't blame the refs. That's pretty weak.

Exactly, you have to make your plays and overcome adversity. That play happened in the 1st qtr, they had plenty of time to come back and make plays of their own. The big problem is that the Vikes def is awful.

 

[snogger]

As far as I'm concerned, the Vikes are in their annual late-season swoon anyway so it's not like they are going to win the division anyway. It's over, the Packers won, get over it. Maybe if Tice wouldn't have played Randy Moss streak extension games earlier in the year, the outcome would have been different. Don't blame the refs. That's pretty weak.

These kinda of comments crack me up... How can you say they are in a swoon like last year?? Yes the loss to the Giants Was :X :X But to play @ The Colts and @ The Packers and lose in last second FG's WITHOUT Moss shows they are better than last year.Last season was a MAJOR swoon.. These last 2 games they have not LOST the games, as much as the other team Won the games.Now, if they lose to the Lions this week, than I'll offically jump on the get rid of Tice Band Wagon.. But......With 7 games left, I see them winning 3 Home games with 1 Toss-up with The Seahawks.That gives them 8 Wins.. They also have a road game at The Lions and if healthy should win that one.. Now 9 wins. THe Last game of the season is at Washington.. Tough call, and 1 game at The Bears who I think they beat..I still see a 10-6 record or better.. and even think a 9-7 record has a shot at the Wildcard, if not the Division.

 

[P Boy]

How can you say they are in a swoon like last year??

Uhhh, because:A) The Vikings suck,B) They wear freakin' purple uniforms. Sissies.C) The Vikings suck,D) They are an expansion team that doesn't understand how to win big games yet. Maybe when they have another 25 years of history in their franchise they'll be worthy,E) The Vikings suck,F) The Vikings play home games indoors. More sissiness.G) The Vikings suck,H) They have fans that pride themselves in wearing blond pigtailed wigs. We won't even broach the level of sissiness this entails.I) The Vikings suck,J) The fans eat freakin' lutefisk. Name one championship team where the fans eat freakin' lutefisk.K) The Vikings suck.Hope that helps.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The NFL bias in Green Bay is pretty obvious when the Vikings recover a fumble and it goes back to the Packers.

Where was the NFL bias when the ball was spotted a yard short on Nick Luchey's 4th and 1 carry?The fact is that the Packers outplayed the Vikings yesterday, but not by much. If the game is in the metrodome and Randy Moss is on the field, the Vikings are probably a double-digit winner. Dec. 24 will be fun this year.

 

[Hinezer]

Who came up with the ball after the pile was dismantled? Larry Ned, a Viking. Ross had it first and should have been down by contact. If they allowed it to continue, then shouldn't the last person with the ball be the person who recovered it, not the middleman?It was a terrible call that decided the game. The NFL bias in Green Bay is pretty obvious when the Vikings recover a fumble and it goes back to the Packers.

Where you on the field and saw what the refs did?

Have you ever seen a pile-up where the refs declared who had the ball before the was actually uncovered?Tice said the same thing in his post game press conference.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

Who came up with the ball after the pile was dismantled?  Larry Ned, a Viking.  Ross had it first and should have been down by contact.  If they allowed it to continue, then shouldn't the last person with the ball be the person who recovered it, not the middleman?It was a terrible call that decided the game.  The NFL bias in Green Bay is pretty obvious when the Vikings recover a fumble and it goes back to the Packers.

Where you on the field and saw what the refs did?

Have you ever seen a pile-up where the refs declared who had the ball before the was actually uncovered?Tice said the same thing in his post game press conference.

Really? Tice, the Vikings coach, thinks the Vikes got screwed? That's weird... How do you know the ball hadn't been uncovered? As has been said before, you weren't in/around the pile, and the cameras didn't show anything conclusive before the refs made the call. So what is your story? Ross recovered or Ned recovered? Or it doesn't matter as long as a Viking recovered?

 

[Hinezer]

But wait...in the endzone, the play ended when Fisher had two hands on the ball and had control of the ball.  Same thing here, except he wasn't a Packer, so Ross didn't have control.

Rules in the end zone are different.The second there's control it's a TD. Just like if a RB crosses the line then fumbles, it's not a fumble. Same if a receiver catches the ball.On the field of play obviously that is not the case. In a fumble situation the ball can change hands many times.. and because possession means nothing at that point, so bet it.On the other hand, the second there is possession inside the goal line.. "something" has happened fumble or touchback.Fischer lost the ball, then because he was the one to recover it.. he did so. As long as he has control of it, it's a touchdown, instantly, no questions asked. The same could have been said for a viking in that situation. Had they got control of the ball in the endzone, play stops and it's a touchback. It seemed pretty clear that two packers were on top of the ball (one being fischer) before the scrum begain. Instantly (because Fischer is the controler) it's a TD. Play stops.At the end of the game, obviously this wasn't the case.

I seriously think you Viking fans are just reaching on these complaints...If you watch objectively, you'll see plays like this every week in the nfl...I didn't see Ned come out of the pile with the ball, but I'll take your word for it that he was running aroud with the ball after the play. That said, the ref probably acknowledged the Packer player's possession, the Packer dropped the ball, Ned picked it up and you guys fell for it. A lot of big David Blaine fans up in Minnesota, I guess...Both faede and I explained the difference in the rules of field of play vs. endzone...the plays were both called correctly. You guys will just have to sit and sulk about the Lambeau 'homer refs' until Christmas Eve. Don't too hard...your tears'll freeze to your goldarn cheeks up there, don'tcha know?

Honestly, how are we "reaching for complaints"?The first fumble, they wait until the pile is uncovered to declare that Fisher had control of it in the endzone. If he had control of it, why wouldn't they make the call right away? I mean, they didn't look at a replay to make the decision. If a Packer would have came out of the pile with the ball, they would have given it back to the Packers at the site of the fumble, but since Udeze ended up with it, they said Fisher was down by contact.Then on the second fumble, Ross clearly had the ball and should have been declared down by contact. Then somewhere a Packer got the ball, but apparently not for long because Ned emerged from the pile with the ball. If Steele recovered it, why wasn't he able to get out of the pile and show that he had the ball?How can you say that we are reaching for complaints? We have pretty good visual evidence that Ross came up with ball right away and Ned ended the play with the ball, but no evidence at all that Steele had it. After the refs screwed up 9 second half calls in GB two years ago, there is definately room on these crap calls.

 

[Hinezer]

Who came up with the ball after the pile was dismantled?  Larry Ned, a Viking.  Ross had it first and should have been down by contact.  If they allowed it to continue, then shouldn't the last person with the ball be the person who recovered it, not the middleman?It was a terrible call that decided the game.  The NFL bias in Green Bay is pretty obvious when the Vikings recover a fumble and it goes back to the Packers.

Where you on the field and saw what the refs did?

Have you ever seen a pile-up where the refs declared who had the ball before the was actually uncovered?Tice said the same thing in his post game press conference.

Really? Tice, the Vikings coach, thinks the Vikes got screwed? That's weird... How do you know the ball hadn't been uncovered? As has been said before, you weren't in/around the pile, and the cameras didn't show anything conclusive before the refs made the call. So what is your story? Ross recovered or Ned recovered? Or it doesn't matter as long as a Viking recovered?

Are you ######ed? Ross recovered the ball and he should have been declared down by contact, he wasn't. Steele took the ball away from him, but Ned took it away from Steele. Either way you look at it, the Vikings ended up with the ball.

 

[Hinezer]

Fine, if you don't believe me, listen to Peter King.

j. It's amazing, and a little sad, that the Minnesota special-teamer Derek Ross actually had possession of the fumbled Robert Ferguson kickoff return in the final minute of the Packers-Vikings game. And Ross was down before the pigpile got the ball disengaged from him and into the hands of a Packer. Green Bay then moved a few yards into field goal range and won. That stolen ball, quite likely, is the difference between the Vikings having a two-game lead over the Packers this morning and the Pack and Vikes being tied at 5-4 atop the NFC North.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

Fine, if you don't believe me, listen to Peter King.

j. It's amazing, and a little sad, that the Minnesota special-teamer Derek Ross actually had possession of the fumbled Robert Ferguson kickoff return in the final minute of the Packers-Vikings game. And Ross was down before the pigpile got the ball disengaged from him and into the hands of a Packer. Green Bay then moved a few yards into field goal range and won. That stolen ball, quite likely, is the difference between the Vikings having a two-game lead over the Packers this morning and the Pack and Vikes being tied at 5-4 atop the NFC North.

If Peter King says so, it must be right. Like I said, arguing will settle nothing. 9 out of 10 times, the refs will not make a call before the pile is cleared. In my mind, it wasn't plain to see that Ross had control of the ball (even WITH the slow-mo video replay), so the play goes on. Packers ended up with the ball underneath the pile. The Ned incident has no bearing on this...Ross lost the ball under the pile, and the Packers went on to win. We'll settle this is 2 months in the Hubert H. Humphrey Homodome...

 

[Hinezer]

Fine, if you don't believe me, listen to Peter King.

j. It's amazing, and a little sad, that the Minnesota special-teamer Derek Ross actually had possession of the fumbled Robert Ferguson kickoff return in the final minute of the Packers-Vikings game. And Ross was down before the pigpile got the ball disengaged from him and into the hands of a Packer. Green Bay then moved a few yards into field goal range and won. That stolen ball, quite likely, is the difference between the Vikings having a two-game lead over the Packers this morning and the Pack and Vikes being tied at 5-4 atop the NFC North.

If Peter King says so, it must be right. Like I said, arguing will settle nothing. 9 out of 10 times, the refs will not make a call before the pile is cleared. In my mind, it wasn't plain to see that Ross had control of the ball (even WITH the slow-mo video replay), so the play goes on. Packers ended up with the ball underneath the pile. The Ned incident has no bearing on this...Ross lost the ball under the pile, and the Packers went on to win. We'll settle this is 2 months in the Hubert H. Humphrey Homodome...

What don't you understand? Ned ended up with the ball at the bottom of the pile, not the Packer, but they somehow gave it to the Packers.

 

[MrPack]

Fine, if you don't believe me, listen to Peter King.

j. It's amazing, and a little sad, that the Minnesota special-teamer Derek Ross actually had possession of the fumbled Robert Ferguson kickoff return in the final minute of the Packers-Vikings game. And Ross was down before the pigpile got the ball disengaged from him and into the hands of a Packer. Green Bay then moved a few yards into field goal range and won. That stolen ball, quite likely, is the difference between the Vikings having a two-game lead over the Packers this morning and the Pack and Vikes being tied at 5-4 atop the NFC North.

If Peter King says so, it must be right. Like I said, arguing will settle nothing. 9 out of 10 times, the refs will not make a call before the pile is cleared. In my mind, it wasn't plain to see that Ross had control of the ball (even WITH the slow-mo video replay), so the play goes on. Packers ended up with the ball underneath the pile. The Ned incident has no bearing on this...Ross lost the ball under the pile, and the Packers went on to win. We'll settle this is 2 months in the Hubert H. Humphrey Homodome...

What don't you understand? Ned ended up with the ball at the bottom of the pile, not the Packer, but they somehow gave it to the Packers.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Either you're on a major or you're in the first seat on the :11: I'll go slowly here for you......When there is a fumble. There is a big pile and an all out scrap for the ball. The refs try and pull people out of it until they actually SEE who has the ball. This usually takes a few minutes, and the ball usually changes possession a couple of times during this scrap. Once they actually SEE who has the ball, they announce it. USUALLY players who recover it, get up then not caring who has the ball because the referee's had made their decision. That is the case with Fergusons fumble.In the case of Fischer's fumble, it was clear he had gotten control of it, and the refs then blew the play dead.Please stop you are making yourself look worse and worse. Also please saying, "that's what Tice said too......that's what Peter King said too" If you are going to contiue to , please use this emoticon to end your posts from now on.

 

[SloppySeconds]

I'm not a homer for Minnesota. But if there was a chance to use review on a scrub for a fumble recovery this would be it. That video clearly shows the Minnesota person laying on top of the ball with 2 hands securely on the ball. Now the one thing I don't know is how long you need to have possesion before it is considered your ball. That video seems to show that at least for 1 second he was on the ground (down) and had possesion. How long can you lie on the ground and have the opportunity for someone to take it away from you?

 

[Eric Stratton]

Fischer lost the ball, then because he was the one to recover it.. he did so. As long as he has control of it, it's a touchdown, instantly, no questions asked. The same could have been said for a viking in that situation. Had they got control of the ball in the endzone, play stops and it's a touchback. It seemed pretty clear that two packers were on top of the ball (one being fischer) before the scrum begain. Instantly (because Fischer is the controler) it's a TD. Play stops.At the end of the game, obviously this wasn't the case.

Exactly. The rule is different in the end zone. The FOX announcers also stated that the refs made the correct call.