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Gates to Report on Sunday (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BoltzNBrew
- Start date
TheFanatic
Footballguy
So it looks like he's in camp and will play the season. And it looks like he's suspended for the first game but the commish can rescind that. I'm of the belief that the Commish will reinstate the young star on the rise because it will be good for ratings. Which sucks for me because I play Gates week 1.....
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Well i don't know what reason tagliabue has to reinstate gates though.. The NFL rules are there for a reason. He was given an ultimatum, he didn't accept it, so i think now he, unfortunately, will not be active until week 2 of the reg. season. If the commish overruled something like this, that would set a precedent and have an impact on future exemptions that teams impose on players.. I do think he should be reinstated due to the timing of this whole thing. He agreed to report the very next day, and sign the one year deal. So it's obviously a situation where AG and Colona were calling the teams bluff, and it backfired. However, i don't think Tagliabue will think that's enough of a reason to overrule the exemption.So it looks like he's in camp and will play the season. And it looks like he's suspended for the first game but the commish can rescind that. I'm of the belief that the Commish will reinstate the young star on the rise because it will be good for ratings. Which sucks for me because I play Gates week 1.....Thanks for the heads up
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-c...ov=ap&type=lgns
In a new twist to the Chargers' most-pressing saga, general manager A.J. Smith seemed bewildered by reports quoting Gates' agent, Andre Colona, as saying that commissioner Paul Tagliabue can shorten the suspension if requested by the Chargers.
``If there's some development here that you all are reporting, and there is a hearing and the commissioner says he can come back to the San Diego Chargers for Dallas, I think that would be unbelievable,'' Smith said during a news conference at halftime of an exhibition game against St. Louis.
``That's exciting. But you guys are way ahead of me on that. But we'll explore, weigh the options, and go from there.''
An NFL spokesman, though, said there doesn't appear to be any way to reverse the process set in motion by the Chargers in an attempt to break an impasse in negotiations for a multiyear deal for Gates, who was named All-Pro in just his second season.
The team sent Colona a letter more than a week ago ordering Gates to be in camp and sign a contract by Saturday, or be put on the Roster Exempt List once he does sign, triggering a three-game suspension.
``Once the letter is sent, the player is out,'' spokesman Steve Alic said Sunday.
If Gates had met the deadline, he'd be OK, Alic said.
Now, ``he'll be able to suit up for week two of the regular season,'' Alic said.
Smith said the Chargers checked with the NFL management council before sending the letter and were told ``100 percent that you can't get your player back. That's pretty strong. It affects us, too, now. Not only is Antonio out of the game, but the Chargers are out of the tight end in the game. But we understood that when the letter was delivered.''
Said Alic: ``I've spoken to the management council today just to double-check what I know, and that is the case, 100 percent. I'm not aware of any type of appeal process.''
Chargers receiver Keenan McCardell, a member of the NFL Players Association Executive Committee, also said he was unaware of any appeals process.
Asked if he regretted sending the letter, Smith said: ``Oh no. Absolutely not. Oh, no, no, no, no. We knew if sent the letter, 100 percent we're out the player. We need to get this going. We're not getting anywhere.''
Gates had a breakout year in 2004, helping the Chargers go 12-4 and reach the playoffs for the first time in nine seasons. Gates caught 13 touchdown passes -- a league record for tight ends -- and led the Chargers with 81 catches for 964 yards.
As an exclusive-rights free agent, Gates was tendered a one-year contract for $380,000, the minimum for a third-year player. That Chargers say Gates deserves to be paid more, but can't agree with Colona on the number of years or dollar amount of a long-term deal.
Smith said he concurred with Colona that ``negotiations are dead in the water. We just can't seem to get it going. We've been at this thing for 10 months. We'll just hopefully keep banging away at it. Andre said Antonio will sign the tender and play for $380,000, then go into the restricted free agent market. So we pretty much have established that.''
Next offseason, Gates can receive offers from other clubs. The Chargers would have the right to match any offer.
Colona reportedly said he won't negotiate after the Dallas game.
``It looks like we've got a window now, from when the tender is signed, until Dallas,'' Smith said.
In a new twist to the Chargers' most-pressing saga, general manager A.J. Smith seemed bewildered by reports quoting Gates' agent, Andre Colona, as saying that commissioner Paul Tagliabue can shorten the suspension if requested by the Chargers.
``If there's some development here that you all are reporting, and there is a hearing and the commissioner says he can come back to the San Diego Chargers for Dallas, I think that would be unbelievable,'' Smith said during a news conference at halftime of an exhibition game against St. Louis.
``That's exciting. But you guys are way ahead of me on that. But we'll explore, weigh the options, and go from there.''
An NFL spokesman, though, said there doesn't appear to be any way to reverse the process set in motion by the Chargers in an attempt to break an impasse in negotiations for a multiyear deal for Gates, who was named All-Pro in just his second season.
The team sent Colona a letter more than a week ago ordering Gates to be in camp and sign a contract by Saturday, or be put on the Roster Exempt List once he does sign, triggering a three-game suspension.
``Once the letter is sent, the player is out,'' spokesman Steve Alic said Sunday.
If Gates had met the deadline, he'd be OK, Alic said.
Now, ``he'll be able to suit up for week two of the regular season,'' Alic said.
Smith said the Chargers checked with the NFL management council before sending the letter and were told ``100 percent that you can't get your player back. That's pretty strong. It affects us, too, now. Not only is Antonio out of the game, but the Chargers are out of the tight end in the game. But we understood that when the letter was delivered.''
Said Alic: ``I've spoken to the management council today just to double-check what I know, and that is the case, 100 percent. I'm not aware of any type of appeal process.''
Chargers receiver Keenan McCardell, a member of the NFL Players Association Executive Committee, also said he was unaware of any appeals process.
Asked if he regretted sending the letter, Smith said: ``Oh no. Absolutely not. Oh, no, no, no, no. We knew if sent the letter, 100 percent we're out the player. We need to get this going. We're not getting anywhere.''
Gates had a breakout year in 2004, helping the Chargers go 12-4 and reach the playoffs for the first time in nine seasons. Gates caught 13 touchdown passes -- a league record for tight ends -- and led the Chargers with 81 catches for 964 yards.
As an exclusive-rights free agent, Gates was tendered a one-year contract for $380,000, the minimum for a third-year player. That Chargers say Gates deserves to be paid more, but can't agree with Colona on the number of years or dollar amount of a long-term deal.
Smith said he concurred with Colona that ``negotiations are dead in the water. We just can't seem to get it going. We've been at this thing for 10 months. We'll just hopefully keep banging away at it. Andre said Antonio will sign the tender and play for $380,000, then go into the restricted free agent market. So we pretty much have established that.''
Next offseason, Gates can receive offers from other clubs. The Chargers would have the right to match any offer.
Colona reportedly said he won't negotiate after the Dallas game.
``It looks like we've got a window now, from when the tender is signed, until Dallas,'' Smith said.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Id be totally surpirsed if Gates doesnt fire his agent now.Playing for 380k when you could of had a few million is just dumb.It also is sounding like he is a out for the Dallas game for sure.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
And it will be the same people that would have looked foolish IF they had decided to sit out the first 10 games of the season with no bargaining positon at all.
A few notes from ProFootballTalk (so consider the source -- but I think they have these right):
ANTONIO'S MAKING ASININE DECISIONS
August 20
Hours after a deadline passed for Chargers tight end Antonio Gates to report to training camp or face three weeks on the Roster Exempt list, agent Andre Colona says that the Pro Bowler will report on Sunday.
The reaction around the league was swift, and harsh.
"Why wait a day?" said one league source. "If you're going in anyway, go in before the deadline."
And based on our analysis of the relevant provision of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, if a player such as Gates misses the initial deadline to report in order to avoid three weeks on the Roster Exempt list, it makes far more sense to wait until the day before the next preseason game to report, at the earliest. If the player is committed to using the only leverage that he has, it makes even more sense to ignore the potential loss of pay for the first three weeks of the regular season, since the player already would have made the decision to stay out up to ten weeks. And that would make the whole Roster Exempt thing moot.
Article XXXII, Section 4© of the CBA sets forth the rules regarding the placement of a restricted-rights player on the Roster Exempt list. If a guy with less than three accrued seasons (like Gates) has received the appropriate tender offer (like Gates), the team may exercise its right to place the player on the Roster Exempt list if he fails to report at least the day before the second preseason game. If he fails to report on the day before the second preseason game, he remains on the Roster Exempt list, without pay, until after the first regular season game.
Although the CBA doesn't specify the specific time on the day before the second preseason game by which the player must show, Gates' decision to report on the day of the Chargers' second preseason game (at home against the Rams) prevents him from arguing that, even though he didn't report by 12:30 p.m. on Saturday, the CBA requires only that he report at some point on Saturday. (We don't know whether the argument would hold water, but the plain language of Section 4©(i) supports the position that Gates had until 11:59 p.m. PDT on Saturday to clock in.)
And since Gates' stay on the Roster Exempt list won't extend to the second regular season game unless he fails to report on the day before the team's third preseason game, it's downright stupid for him to report on Sunday and risk an injury in practice early next week. Instead, he should wait until Thursday to report, since the team's third preseason game is on Friday, at Minnesota.
"It sounds like the agent was overruled by the kid," said a league source, and we agree.
As we see it, once Gates missed the deadline for avoiding the loss of one game check, there was no reason to sacrifice his leverage. After all, the most game checks he could be required to miss pursuant to Article XXXII, Section 4 list is three. If Gates were serious about using his leverage to get a new deal, then he should have been prepared to sit out even longer than three weeks of the regular season -- especially since he needs to be on the roster for only six games in order to get credit for an accrued season.
If, on the other hand, Gates had intended all along to sign the one-year, $380,000 tender while negotiations on a long-term deal continued, he should have showed up by 12:30 p.m. on Saturday. Per Article XXXII, Section 4, the team was required to send to Gates and to the NFLPA written notice of its intention to utilize the Roster Exempt tool no later than 1:05 p.m. PDT on Tuesday, August 16. So it's not as if Gates didn't have enough time to make an informed decision. Indeed, his agent should have been prepared for this maneuver, since the team used it a year ago with center Jason Ball.
Maybe Gates thought that the team wouldn't put the screws to him, given that Gates participated in offseason workouts despite the absence of a contract. Setting aside for now the question of whether it was "fair" or "just" for the team to reward Gates' loyalty by playing hardball, the fact remains that the team was fully within its rights under the CBA to use the Roster Exempt list to squeeze Gates into camp.
And if Gates thinks that his one-day-too-late decision to show up will prompt the team to rescind its choice to place him on the Roster Exempt list, he's in for yet another surprise. Per Section 4© of Article XXXII, once the team provides written notice of its intention to place a player on the Roster Exempt list, the team "must" do so. His agent believes that the team can ask the Commissioner to lift the exemption, but we see nothing in the CBA that contemplates a possible reversal once the letter is sent and the kid doesn't show up.
The bottom line -- this is yet another example of an agent not knowing the ins-and-outs of the CBA, not properly explaining the situation to his client, and/or not having sufficient control over his client's actions.
And it's yet another victory for the Chargers in a stare-down with a player.
NO WAY OUT FOR ANTONIO
August 22
AFC information manager Steve Alic has confirmed our belief regarding the application of the Roster Exempt rule to Chargers tight end Antontio Gates.
Once a guy is on the list, he's stuck there.
So even though Gates' agent, Andre Colona, has suggested that NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue has the ability, if he so chooses, to lift the three-week exemption and reinstate Gates for San Diego's regular season opener against the Cowboys, the Commish has no such discretion.
"Under collectively bargained rules," Alic said, "[Gates'] designation cannot be altered."
ANTONIO'S MAKING ASININE DECISIONS
August 20
Hours after a deadline passed for Chargers tight end Antonio Gates to report to training camp or face three weeks on the Roster Exempt list, agent Andre Colona says that the Pro Bowler will report on Sunday.
The reaction around the league was swift, and harsh.
"Why wait a day?" said one league source. "If you're going in anyway, go in before the deadline."
And based on our analysis of the relevant provision of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, if a player such as Gates misses the initial deadline to report in order to avoid three weeks on the Roster Exempt list, it makes far more sense to wait until the day before the next preseason game to report, at the earliest. If the player is committed to using the only leverage that he has, it makes even more sense to ignore the potential loss of pay for the first three weeks of the regular season, since the player already would have made the decision to stay out up to ten weeks. And that would make the whole Roster Exempt thing moot.
Article XXXII, Section 4© of the CBA sets forth the rules regarding the placement of a restricted-rights player on the Roster Exempt list. If a guy with less than three accrued seasons (like Gates) has received the appropriate tender offer (like Gates), the team may exercise its right to place the player on the Roster Exempt list if he fails to report at least the day before the second preseason game. If he fails to report on the day before the second preseason game, he remains on the Roster Exempt list, without pay, until after the first regular season game.
Although the CBA doesn't specify the specific time on the day before the second preseason game by which the player must show, Gates' decision to report on the day of the Chargers' second preseason game (at home against the Rams) prevents him from arguing that, even though he didn't report by 12:30 p.m. on Saturday, the CBA requires only that he report at some point on Saturday. (We don't know whether the argument would hold water, but the plain language of Section 4©(i) supports the position that Gates had until 11:59 p.m. PDT on Saturday to clock in.)
And since Gates' stay on the Roster Exempt list won't extend to the second regular season game unless he fails to report on the day before the team's third preseason game, it's downright stupid for him to report on Sunday and risk an injury in practice early next week. Instead, he should wait until Thursday to report, since the team's third preseason game is on Friday, at Minnesota.
"It sounds like the agent was overruled by the kid," said a league source, and we agree.
As we see it, once Gates missed the deadline for avoiding the loss of one game check, there was no reason to sacrifice his leverage. After all, the most game checks he could be required to miss pursuant to Article XXXII, Section 4 list is three. If Gates were serious about using his leverage to get a new deal, then he should have been prepared to sit out even longer than three weeks of the regular season -- especially since he needs to be on the roster for only six games in order to get credit for an accrued season.
If, on the other hand, Gates had intended all along to sign the one-year, $380,000 tender while negotiations on a long-term deal continued, he should have showed up by 12:30 p.m. on Saturday. Per Article XXXII, Section 4, the team was required to send to Gates and to the NFLPA written notice of its intention to utilize the Roster Exempt tool no later than 1:05 p.m. PDT on Tuesday, August 16. So it's not as if Gates didn't have enough time to make an informed decision. Indeed, his agent should have been prepared for this maneuver, since the team used it a year ago with center Jason Ball.
Maybe Gates thought that the team wouldn't put the screws to him, given that Gates participated in offseason workouts despite the absence of a contract. Setting aside for now the question of whether it was "fair" or "just" for the team to reward Gates' loyalty by playing hardball, the fact remains that the team was fully within its rights under the CBA to use the Roster Exempt list to squeeze Gates into camp.
And if Gates thinks that his one-day-too-late decision to show up will prompt the team to rescind its choice to place him on the Roster Exempt list, he's in for yet another surprise. Per Section 4© of Article XXXII, once the team provides written notice of its intention to place a player on the Roster Exempt list, the team "must" do so. His agent believes that the team can ask the Commissioner to lift the exemption, but we see nothing in the CBA that contemplates a possible reversal once the letter is sent and the kid doesn't show up.
The bottom line -- this is yet another example of an agent not knowing the ins-and-outs of the CBA, not properly explaining the situation to his client, and/or not having sufficient control over his client's actions.
And it's yet another victory for the Chargers in a stare-down with a player.
NO WAY OUT FOR ANTONIO
August 22
AFC information manager Steve Alic has confirmed our belief regarding the application of the Roster Exempt rule to Chargers tight end Antontio Gates.
Once a guy is on the list, he's stuck there.
So even though Gates' agent, Andre Colona, has suggested that NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue has the ability, if he so chooses, to lift the three-week exemption and reinstate Gates for San Diego's regular season opener against the Cowboys, the Commish has no such discretion.
"Under collectively bargained rules," Alic said, "[Gates'] designation cannot be altered."
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buck naked
Footballguy
That's good stuff, Maurile. Thanks.This proves the importance of a quality agent.
Gold Plated Nails
Footballguy
His agent is a NBA agent. Overplayed his hand and didn't know the rules. Cost Gates a game check and another season at low money.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm confused. I have seen guys like Pace sit out the whole preseason and were never suspended for the 1st game.I think the Charger's were jackasses to do this. I hope the CHargers get smacked around by the Cowboys and miss the playoffs by 1 game...fans will go nuts.
B-Deep
Footballguy
And next season he'll be somewhere else, the Chargers will get picks from whoever takes him, but he'll be gone. That is, of course, assuming they stick to their ludicrous rule that they do not negotiate during the season.As a Cowboys fan I love this, throw a game on principle Chargers, I'm happy about that.
That's Colona's "rule" (or at least it's what he's claiming right now). It's not a Charger rule.
I honestly don't know of a cure, other than reading through all of the threads where the issue has been covered from pretty much every angle.
B-Deep
Footballguy
Question, don't the Brees/Rivers issues give them a problem here. If they are a playoff team again this year and decide to keep Brees then what? They have two players wanting huge contracts and have to try and satisfy both and cannot slam both with a franchise tag. At the same time they have to try and deal rivers with every team in the league knowing they HAVE to bail on him to keep under the cap.It just seems to me like there was room on both sides to get this done. The Chargers seem every it as pigheaded as Gates in this, and have just as much to lose.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
It's known as playing hardball, MOP. Gates has an agent who apparently doesn't want to cooperate and believes in playing hardball. So, faced with those tactics, the Chargers are playing hardball too.The Chargers hold all the aces, and they are going to use them because it makes economic sense. Gates HAS to play 6 games this year, or he continues to be in exactly the same situation next year. And as was pointed out above, he will be a restricted free agent next year.They've offered Gates a good contract. Is it the maximum? No. But when you negotiate you don't always get your asking price, and you have to consider the alternatives.
They will not be able to franchise both Brees and Gates next year. I don't think that's much of an issue, though, since I think if they decide to keep Brees it would be with a long-term deal (which is much more cap-friendly than using the fanchise tag).
Keeping Rivers as a backup is cheaper, cap-wise, than trading him.
It's hard to know what's going on in the negotiating room. But from the accounts in the press, the Chargers have made a reasonable offer ($20 million over five years) and are willing to go higher. Gates is making an unreasonable demand (three-year deal) and refuses to negotiate once the season starts. So based on the media accounts, it seems to me that Gates is the one being unreasonable. But it's impossible to know for sure since the accuracy of the media accounts is far from fool-proof.
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The roster exemption got him into camp. As one writer put it, it's better to have him in camp four weeks before the second game than four days before the first game.Gates is the primary option on many of the passing plays, so working on timing within the offense is essential. He needs to be in camp. The Roster Exemption got him there.
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Absolutely. There's now way the Chargers can replace Gates with first and third round draft picks. Gates is one of the top overall TEs in the league, along with Gonzo and a healthy Shockey. I don't think Heap or KW2 are comparable blockers.The Chargers absolutely want to get Gates signed to a long-term deal, but they can't do it by themsleves.
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Gold Plated Nails
Footballguy
The Cowboys playing in SD with Drew Bledsoe or is there a different Cowboys?Pace was franchised MoP. Meaning he would miss out on like a $700,000 game check if he didn't show up for game 1. There were no gaurantees that Gates would show up for his 20K paycheck. They forced his hand. You really need to stop posting on this subject.
Ron the Don
Footballguy
Gates was silly not to be sitting in the parking lot at 12:28 in case a deal didn't get done. He believed it when his agent gave him the old "we'll get it done, we'll get it done."
You know, I just thought of something. If the Chargers want to keep Brees, they'd probably sign him to a long-term deal. But if the Chargers don't want to keep Brees, they'd probably want to slap him with the franchise tag so they could trade him. Otherwise, he's a UFA and he can go elsewhere with the Chargers getting nothing in return.So that may complicate things.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
OK MT let me be clearer since you posted 1 little snippett. Why would the Chargers do this to spite themselves? Why would you want the premier TE to not play in the 1st game? It's dumb...I understand your a Chargers Homer and think the Chargers were great in negotiations(Now I'm sure you'll flip that to the other side), but the Chargers were not smart IMO and they are shooting themselves in the foot. Now Parcell's doesn't have to gameplan against Gates whatsoever.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Exactly, I'm sure Gates will be eager to talk to them now...great team Chemistry this creates.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
At the point they don't want to sign him long term, I doubt he'd have much trade value (it would mean he tanked), and they could put themselves in a real bind by doing such a thing and then not finding any takers. I doubt the Chargers play it that way. I figure for next year it'll be Brees or Rivers with the other one leaving town in the simplest least complicated manner possible.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Pompous, arrogant, what else can I use to describe you? Don't tell me what to post on GPN...just cause I don't share your view on this pathetic handling of typical Charger-Ball...b4 last season when was their last winning record? Their track history is deplorable...just because the Chargers got to the 1st round of the playoffs doesn't make you any smarter or better opinionated on their front office moves.
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They wouldn't. That's not why they did it.
They didn't want him to not play in the 1st game. They want him to play.
They got Gates into camp. That's what they wanted to do, so it worked.The only really ridiculous thing is that Gates came in on Sunday instead of Saturday. Once the Chargers wrote the August 16 letter, there was nothing they could do to prevent the Roster Exemption from occurring if Gates didn't show up by August 20.
But as I mentioned above, having Gates in camp by August 21 is much better than having him in camp by Sept 5 or so, which is probably what would have happened if they hadn't written the August 16 letter.
So the letter worked and Gates is in camp.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Because you have an entire team salary structure to think about not just for this year, but for the forseeable future as well. Gates's agent wasn't going to play ball until he got the message that the Chargers weren't going to screw around, and he got the message loud and clear. So Gates misses a game - in the greater scheme of things it's just not that big a deal (except to fantasy football players of course). Many contract negotiations have some acrimony involved, but once they get done they usually don't have thing one to do with team chemistry or performance of the team on the field once they're settled. I expect a similiar situation with Gates.
AJ's track record is deplorable? Or are you talking about Steve Ortmeyer or somebody else?I think AJ has been pretty much perfect so far. He got rid of David Boston. He signed Steve Foley, Randall Godfrey, and Mike Goff. He traded for Roman Oben and Keenan McCardell. He stuck to his guns and drafted Eli Manning . . . and then traded him for the world. His draft picks look very strong.
Everything he's done so far has been terrific.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
We can agree to disagree on this. He got to the 1st round of the palyoffs and couldn't beat the Jets in San Diego...road teams don't usually win in the playoffs. The Chargers did it by beating a lot of bad teams and taking advantage of off years by Oakland and KC.It's great that they got Gates into camp...Benson hasn't been suspended any games yet although the likelihood of him playing much at the beginning of the season is getting less and less. Why didn't the Chargers simply start removing money from their offer. Why pin yourself into having to suspend the 2nd best offensive weapon you have.
BTW: McCardell didn't do that much for SD last year and he's a year older this year...luckily they have better talent coming up behind him quickly with Caldwell and Parker who I both like.
So AJ takes over the team a year ago and oversees a turnaround from 4-12 to 12-4 and that's "deplorable" since they didn't win a playoff game?
They can't reduce the $380,000 offer or Gates would have immediately become an unrestricted free agent.You mean the $20 million offer? Actually, instead of reducing that offer, the Chargers have stated their willingness to go higher.
I guess you have your negotiating style and AJ has his, but if the Chargers started pulling money off the table, I think there's a good chance that Gates wouldn't have reported until week 10.
They didn't suspend him. He's missing the first game because he showed up on Sunday instead of Saturday. But the important thing from the Chargers' perspective is that he showed up at all.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
However they got to the playoffs, they got there and had a nice record to boot, they were one missed kicked away from advancing, they put up good showings against quality teams even when they lost, and they improved in all areas of the game (except perhaps running, where it would have been tough to improve). Trying to discount the accomplishments of last season is a weak argument. AJ, Marty, Phillips and Houck did great jobs last year.I fail to understand how taking money out of the deal would have made it enticing for Gates? They'd never have agreed to such a thing. AJ had to go after where it counted - game checks sure, but mainly years toward free agency and pension. That got them into camp and playing.
McCardell did plenty for the Chargers last year, though I agree his value going forward is limited.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
MT, I never brought up AJ you did!THE SAN DIEGO CHARGERS! The team that has gone 144-191 over the past 20+ seasons...how many owner changes were during that time? Isn't it basically the same owners...I don't know Charger history as well as the bad taste in your mouth does but I never mentioned AJ, but you sure propped him up as quick as possible. He's no Rick McKay...not yet anyways.
I asked whether you meant AJ or Ortmeyer. If you meant that AJ has been deplorable, I disagree. If you meant Ortmeyer or Beathard or someone else, I don't see how that's relevant.MT, I never brought up AJ you did!THE SAN DIEGO CHARGERS! The team that has gone 144-191 over the past 20+ seasons...how many owner changes were during that time? Isn't it basically the same owners...I don't know Charger history as well as the bad taste in your mouth does but I never mentioned AJ, but you sure propped him up as quick as possible. He's no Rick McKay...not yet anyways.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
That $380,000 is not much money in the scope of things...If you think a $20,000 game check was his motivation when he can easily get millions I don't see the connection like you guys do. Gates can make $380,000+ just in simple endorsements for car dealerships throughout SoCal.
Gold Plated Nails
Footballguy
Funny, those are the same descriptors I would use for you. I explained the difference between Pace and Gates situations. You of course choose not to think about it and respond, instead you just shoot from the hip and run your mouth, see what sticks and avoid what dosen't. Like I said, you don't seem to have a firm grasp of the elements in this negotiation. I am sorry you have a downtrodden view of the new Charger management. I think the 2004 NFL GM of the year AJ Smith is doing just fine.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
So you're contradicting yourself then? I thought you were talking about removing money from the negotiated deal, not the tender contract. The tender contract was just to get him into camp so they could then continue negotiations for the big ticket deal. The Charger's focus was always getting him into camp and going from there - that's why they did what they did. You're correct in your assessment that losing a game check from the tender contract is virtually meaningless, so you've answered your own initial question haven't you? It makes me wonder why you asked the question at all.
Gates joins teammates, Will practice today
By Casey Pearce, Chargers.com
Monday, August 22, 2005
Chargers tight end Antonio Gates arrived at the team’s media center Monday afternoon dressed in workout clothes. He had his playbook under his arm and a grin on his face.
“It’s time to get to work,” said the 2004 All-Pro. “It’s been a long two weeks. I’m happy to be back, and I’m looking forward to helping this team win some games.”
Gates reported to Chargers training camp on Sunday and will join his teammates for practice this afternoon. The former Kent State basketball star said that he received a warm greeting upon his arrival.
“My teammates all welcomed me back and made me feel at home,” Gates said. “That alone made me feel comfortable with my decision to get here. I made a decision to be here for my teammates and my fans. That’s the most important part for me right now.”
As Chargers General Manager A.J. Smith reported on Sunday, the two sides will continue to negotiate through the Bolts’ regular-season opener against the Dallas Cowboys on Sept. 11.
“We’re not far apart,” Gates said. “It’s just a disagreement, and it’s okay to have those. I disagree with my mom all the time. Right now, we have a common goal to go out there and win a championship.”
Gates signed a one-year tender Sunday evening, making him eligible to join the team. But the third-year pro is optimistic that he and the Chargers will be able to work out a long-term extension prior to the start of the season.
“The door is definitely open for negotiations,” Gates said. “I’m quite sure that something will get done. I’m here on good faith that it will. I want to be here for a long time. I want to be a Charger.”
During his time away from San Diego, Gates spent an extensive amount of time in the gym, although he’s well aware of the fact that a day of training camp is quite different than a day in the weight room.
When asked about being in football shape, Gates joked, “Do I not look like I’m in shape now?”
“It’s hard to duplicate missing training camp, no matter how much running you’re doing. There’s nothing like going against (defensive tackle) Igor (Olshansky), but I’m ready to work hard and get back into football shape.”
In the meantime, Gates is anxious to hit the field and build on his record-setting 2004 season.
“I want to move forward from that,” Gates said. “I’m back, I’m healthy, and I’m ready to practice and play.”
He’ll do just that this afternoon.
By Casey Pearce, Chargers.com
Monday, August 22, 2005
Chargers tight end Antonio Gates arrived at the team’s media center Monday afternoon dressed in workout clothes. He had his playbook under his arm and a grin on his face.
“It’s time to get to work,” said the 2004 All-Pro. “It’s been a long two weeks. I’m happy to be back, and I’m looking forward to helping this team win some games.”
Gates reported to Chargers training camp on Sunday and will join his teammates for practice this afternoon. The former Kent State basketball star said that he received a warm greeting upon his arrival.
“My teammates all welcomed me back and made me feel at home,” Gates said. “That alone made me feel comfortable with my decision to get here. I made a decision to be here for my teammates and my fans. That’s the most important part for me right now.”
As Chargers General Manager A.J. Smith reported on Sunday, the two sides will continue to negotiate through the Bolts’ regular-season opener against the Dallas Cowboys on Sept. 11.
“We’re not far apart,” Gates said. “It’s just a disagreement, and it’s okay to have those. I disagree with my mom all the time. Right now, we have a common goal to go out there and win a championship.”
Gates signed a one-year tender Sunday evening, making him eligible to join the team. But the third-year pro is optimistic that he and the Chargers will be able to work out a long-term extension prior to the start of the season.
“The door is definitely open for negotiations,” Gates said. “I’m quite sure that something will get done. I’m here on good faith that it will. I want to be here for a long time. I want to be a Charger.”
During his time away from San Diego, Gates spent an extensive amount of time in the gym, although he’s well aware of the fact that a day of training camp is quite different than a day in the weight room.
When asked about being in football shape, Gates joked, “Do I not look like I’m in shape now?”
“It’s hard to duplicate missing training camp, no matter how much running you’re doing. There’s nothing like going against (defensive tackle) Igor (Olshansky), but I’m ready to work hard and get back into football shape.”
In the meantime, Gates is anxious to hit the field and build on his record-setting 2004 season.
“I want to move forward from that,” Gates said. “I’m back, I’m healthy, and I’m ready to practice and play.”
He’ll do just that this afternoon.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Let it go.You were just telling us days ago that Gates was going to sit out the first TEN games rather than play for the $380k. Now, because of his agent and not AJ, Gates will be back in camp and miss ONE game instead of TEN. Somehow you're trying to spin this as a bad move by SD. You may as well go on a diatribe about how bad the weather is in SD.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Uh oh, I might be off the San Diego Charger fan Christmas Card list...that sux.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't really follow you.If Brees proves last season was an abberation and reverts back to old form then fine, let him walk. As Groovus has said, he wouldn't have much trade value anyway at that point anyway. Franchise tag on Gates, problem solved.
If Brees has a solid season but nothing special you won't franchise tag Brees either and he shouldn't expect a big offer in the free market. If he gets a big offer from another franchise then more power to him. He has shown to be a mediocre QB and it's time to see what Rivers can do. Don't overpay for an average QB. Franchise tag on Gates, problem solved.
If Brees has another season like last season(ideal scenario but least likely imo) then I'd have no problem giving Brees the $ he's earned in a long-term contract. Keep Rivers because he's cheaper as a backup as you've already stated. Franchise tag on Gates since the top TE's aren't payed all that much in the first place.
Any way you look at it I don't see how you can consider franchise tagging Brees next season OR let Gates walk away without franchise tagging him.
Nobody cares if you blast the Chargers. We Charger fans do it all the time.But it helps if it's for a legitimate reason. When you ask why the Chargers would suspend Gates to spite themselves, for example, you're betraying a lack of information about the subject. They didn't supsend him, and it wasn't to spite themselves.
You're probably right. The only situation where they'd want to franchise Brees is if he plays well again but the Chargers decide to hand the job over to Rivers anyway. But maybe that's not one of the possibilities.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Chargers threaten to suspend Gates if he doesn't show up to camp. That's a choice by the organization, yes or no? And if it's a choice than it deserves criticism...I'm not the only one that thinks this was a bad move on their part. Just because you, GPN, and Groovus all agree and other FBG Chargerfans, doesn't mean you're right I'm worng...it's a difference of opinions.Maybe 1 game won't matter...but there are only 16 games in the season, it's not like in Basketball and a player misses 1 game, or Baseball, etc...
You guys make it seem like the Chargers are just following some sort of NFL policy which isn't the case. he's not the only player out there that hasn't reported to camp(althought i am sure there are not many left). I don't hear of anyone else suspended for the last 2 preseason games and week 1.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Damn groovus, they are HOT! I like Amanda...was that her name? Maybe I will get a few game tickets for them.
They didn't threaten to suspend him. They notified him that they'd use a Roster Exemption on him.
Not if it's a good choice that accomplishes its goal.
I know. Colona agrees with you.
The other guys who haven't reported to camp still haven't reported to camp. Gates has. Because of the Roster Exemption.
