Gay marriage (1 Viewer)

[Tiger Fan]

Would you rather have the 13 year old girl in the custody of an abusive father? Or married to me?

Set up the poll

 

[Eminence]

If the argument that gays should be allowed to adopt is because we shouldn't deprive them from the right and no one involved is harmed.

Surely, you will not deprive my right to court 13 year old girl, no? I'm no pedophile, I want what's best for her.

 

[Henry Ford]

What's worse is that you can't respect my right to have an opinion without telling me, "I'm wrong".

I think the best way to raise a child is with a mother and father. That's how I feel. I'm not telling you you're wrong.

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

Your view is that we should deny rights to people. You're never going to get tolerance for denying people rights based on prejudice against that group.

I want to marry a 13 year old girl. Why deny my right to that? If anything, I'll assure she is a strong woman by the time she's ready for intercourse.

Is there anything morally wrong with that?

There's a pretty huge body of work on why that's harmful. Are you under the impression that a 13-year-old is capable of giving consent to sexual acts and contracts and such?

 

[bigbottom]

What's worse is that you can't respect my right to have an opinion without telling me, "I'm wrong".

I think the best way to raise a child is with a mother and father. That's how I feel. I'm not telling you you're wrong.

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

Your view is that we should deny rights to people. You're never going to get tolerance for denying people rights based on prejudice against that group.

I want to marry a 13 year old girl. Why deny my right to that? If anything, I'll assure she is a strong woman by the time she's ready for intercourse.Is there anything morally wrong with that?

Wait, your earlier argument was a moral one?

In a sense, as people were trying to tell.me my views were wrong. Now I am trying to coax them into a situation where they tell me my beliefs are wrong and they have no factual argument (only intuition) to back up their claims.

Your strategy is incomparable. Godspeed.

 

[Eminence]

Em, you're setting up a false dichotomy. The question is not "man and woman" vs "man and man." The adoption question is "foster care or youth shelter with no parents" or "man and man"

Unfortunately, there are kids out there without a family. It seems utterly wicked to tell them they can't have a family because you disagree with their parents sexual preference.

I fear the negative societal impacts this could cause. I feel homosexuality is a slippery slope.

You don't want to deprive their rights but you don't want to do anything that will cause their numbers to grow.

 

[Henry Ford]

Em, you're setting up a false dichotomy. The question is not "man and woman" vs "man and man." The adoption question is "foster care or youth shelter with no parents" or "man and man"

Unfortunately, there are kids out there without a family. It seems utterly wicked to tell them they can't have a family because you disagree with their parents sexual preference.

I fear the negative societal impacts this could cause. I feel homosexuality is a slippery slope.

You don't want to deprive their rights but you don't want to do anything that will cause their numbers to grow.

Your fears, incidentally, are why it's called "homophobia."

 

[Eminence]

What's worse is that you can't respect my right to have an opinion without telling me, "I'm wrong".

I think the best way to raise a child is with a mother and father. That's how I feel. I'm not telling you you're wrong.

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

Your view is that we should deny rights to people. You're never going to get tolerance for denying people rights based on prejudice against that group.

I want to marry a 13 year old girl. Why deny my right to that? If anything, I'll assure she is a strong woman by the time she's ready for intercourse.Is there anything morally wrong with that?

There's a pretty huge body of work on why that's harmful. Are you under the impression that a 13-year-old is capable of giving consent to sexual acts and contracts and such?

Why is it harmful? I'm not trying to hurt anybody, I'm just trying to be me...

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

you don't want to do anything that will cause their numbers to grow.

This is why I always wear a bathing suit in the shower at the gym.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Let them get married, don't let them have kids. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine. But in my opinion, if you want to have babies, go out and make them the traditional way. Is it fair? Nope. Is it fair that I will never have the physique to be a basketball star? Nope, but there's some things in life you simply have to deal with...

Unfairness is bad. Sometimes there's nothing we can do about it: your unfair lack of height is just a fact of nature. But that shouldn't be an excuse to treat people unfairly when we have a choice.

 

[joffer]

This is like dragons and larryboy

 

[Koya]

Em, you're setting up a false dichotomy. The question is not "man and woman" vs "man and man." The adoption question is "foster care or youth shelter with no parents" or "man and man"

Unfortunately, there are kids out there without a family. It seems utterly wicked to tell them they can't have a family because you disagree with their parents sexual preference.

I fear the negative societal impacts this could cause. I feel homosexuality is a slippery slope.

You don't want to deprive their rights but you don't want to do anything that will cause their numbers to grow.

What do you mean "cause THEIR numbers to grow"

You mean the number of people born with a sexual attraction and mating preference / attraction to the same sex? Homosexuality is far less dangerous than you homophobia and bigotry. Are you really ok with being a bigot that is not willing to have an open enough mind to even explore a reality beyond your misconceptions?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

But I feel that children raised by two members of the same sex won't exactly fit in perfectly with a society of people raised by two members of the opposite sex.

Do you think the rest of us should live our lives based on how you feel about things?

 

[Henry Ford]

What's worse is that you can't respect my right to have an opinion without telling me, "I'm wrong".

I think the best way to raise a child is with a mother and father. That's how I feel. I'm not telling you you're wrong.

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

Your view is that we should deny rights to people. You're never going to get tolerance for denying people rights based on prejudice against that group.

I want to marry a 13 year old girl. Why deny my right to that? If anything, I'll assure she is a strong woman by the time she's ready for intercourse.Is there anything morally wrong with that?

There's a pretty huge body of work on why that's harmful. Are you under the impression that a 13-year-old is capable of giving consent to sexual acts and contracts and such?

Why is it harmful? I'm not trying to hurt anybody, I'm just trying to be me...

It's shown to cause severe problems for the 13-year-old , she's incapable of understanding the true consequences of marriage at that age, which is why she can't enter into a bilaterally binding contract of any sort, and a child under 15 is about five times more likely to die in childbirth than a woman in her 20s.

That being said, if you move to New Hampshire and make friends with her parents, your dreams can come true.

 

[Eminence]

But I feel that children raised by two members of the same sex won't exactly fit in perfectly with a society of people raised by two members of the opposite sex.

Do you think the rest of us should live our lives based on how you feel about things?

Nope.

...and I hope you don't expect me to live my life based on how you feel. That's the best part about being human, we are free to feel how we feel based on life experience.

 

[Eminence]

Em, you're setting up a false dichotomy. The question is not "man and woman" vs "man and man." The adoption question is "foster care or youth shelter with no parents" or "man and man"

Unfortunately, there are kids out there without a family. It seems utterly wicked to tell them they can't have a family because you disagree with their parents sexual preference.

I fear the negative societal impacts this could cause. I feel homosexuality is a slippery slope.You don't want to deprive their rights but you don't want to do anything that will cause their numbers to grow.

I figured you wouldn't actually respond to my post. I'm pretty sure you're fishing, I just would like anyone who may tend toward agreeing with you to see my thought on your intellectually deficient argument.

How is it deficient?

Sure, in the absence of a nuclear family two guy's pretending is better than nothing. But there's no replacement for a loving household lead by a mother and father.

 

[Koya]

But I feel that children raised by two members of the same sex won't exactly fit in perfectly with a society of people raised by two members of the opposite sex.

Do you think the rest of us should live our lives based on how you feel about things?

Nope.

...and I hope you don't expect me to live my life based on how you feel. That's the best part about being human, we are free to feel how we feel based on life experience.

So stop asking that your views be used to deny rights and equality to others.

If you want to live your life by a bigoted set of standards, that's your right. If you want others to live their lives (or rather, LIMIT their lives) by your bigoted set of standards, you have overstepped the bounds of what tolerance is about.

 

[Eminence]

If you want to disagree that:

Mom + Dad > Same Sex Couple

You're free to do so.

 

[rct]

Would you rather have the 13 year old girl in the custody of an abusive father? Or married to me?

Don't go there.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

So when you wrote "Let them get married, don't let them have kids," that was you being tolerant?

 

[Eminence]

But I feel that children raised by two members of the same sex won't exactly fit in perfectly with a society of people raised by two members of the opposite sex.

Do you think the rest of us should live our lives based on how you feel about things?

Nope. ...and I hope you don't expect me to live my life based on how you feel. That's the best part about being human, we are free to feel how we feel based on life experience.

So stop asking that your views be used to deny rights and equality to others.

If you want to live your life by a bigoted set of standards, that's your right. If you want others to live their lives (or rather, LIMIT their lives) by your bigoted set of standards, you have overstepped the bounds of what tolerance is about.

I don't agree, so I'm a bigot. Thanks.

If we were in Russia, the sides would be flipped. I would not be calling you a bigot though...

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So, you're saying that there will be no difference in behavior in a child who was raised by:

1.) A mom and dad.

2.) A mom and mom.

3.) A dad and dad.

Or you're saying the difference will be nothing but a statistic outlier?

They'd probably be different in some ways. I imagine someone raised by two moms or two dads would be less likely to be ignorant about or bigoted against gays, for example.

 

[Eminence]

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

So when you wrote "Let them get married, don't let them have kids," that was you being tolerant?

As tolerant as those calling me a bigot, yeah. If two guys want to go at it like animals, they have that right.

I do feel that a same sex couple is at risk of effecting a child in ways they wouldn't if they had a traditional family.

I don't have facts, just intuition. I am willing to read any data that goes against my argument.

Let's make this a learning experience.

 

[Henry Ford]

But I feel that children raised by two members of the same sex won't exactly fit in perfectly with a society of people raised by two members of the opposite sex.

Do you think the rest of us should live our lives based on how you feel about things?

Nope. ...and I hope you don't expect me to live my life based on how you feel. That's the best part about being human, we are free to feel how we feel based on life experience.

So stop asking that your views be used to deny rights and equality to others.

If you want to live your life by a bigoted set of standards, that's your right. If you want others to live their lives (or rather, LIMIT their lives) by your bigoted set of standards, you have overstepped the bounds of what tolerance is about.

I don't agree, so I'm a bigot. Thanks.

If we were in Russia, the sides would be flipped. I would not be calling you a bigot though...

No, you are obstinately and intolerantly devoted to your prejudices, despite the existence of evidence to the contrary. It's not about whether or not you agree.

 

[Eminence]

If there's no concrete evidence either way, I guess it's a wash and we agree to disagree.

 

[Eminence]

But I feel that children raised by two members of the same sex won't exactly fit in perfectly with a society of people raised by two members of the opposite sex.

Do you think the rest of us should live our lives based on how you feel about things?

Nope. ...and I hope you don't expect me to live my life based on how you feel. That's the best part about being human, we are free to feel how we feel based on life experience.

So stop asking that your views be used to deny rights and equality to others.

If you want to live your life by a bigoted set of standards, that's your right. If you want others to live their lives (or rather, LIMIT their lives) by your bigoted set of standards, you have overstepped the bounds of what tolerance is about.

I don't agree, so I'm a bigot. Thanks.If we were in Russia, the sides would be flipped. I would not be calling you a bigot though...

No, you are obstinately and intolerantly devoted to your prejudices, despite the existence of evidence to the contrary. It's not about whether or not you agree.

Pony up some evidence!

 

[Henry Ford]

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

So when you wrote "Let them get married, don't let them have kids," that was you being tolerant?

As tolerant as those calling me a bigot, yeah. If two guys want to go at it like animals, they have that right.

I do feel that a same sex couple is at risk of effecting a child in ways they wouldn't if they had a traditional family.

I don't have facts, just intuition. I am willing to read any data that goes against my argument.

Let's make this a learning experience.

An article about the preliminary report from the world's largest same-sex parenting study: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick-for-samesex-families-20130605-2npxf.html

National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: http://www.nllfs.org/

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

So when you wrote "Let them get married, don't let them have kids," that was you being tolerant?

As tolerant as those calling me a bigot, yeah.

The idea that you should get to dictate to others whether they may raise children, and the idea that you should not get to do so, are not equally tolerant ideas. They are, in fact, pretty much on opposite ends of the tolerance spectrum.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

O/U for Eminence requesting a HARD DELETE set @ Post #1060.5

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Is this where you got to? Come on, back to Twitter. Let's go.

Sorry, guys. We try to keep him away, but from time to time he finds a way out.

 

[joffer]

Fellas, he's got intuition

 

[Eminence]

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

So when you wrote "Let them get married, don't let them have kids," that was you being tolerant?

As tolerant as those calling me a bigot, yeah. If two guys want to go at it like animals, they have that right.

I do feel that a same sex couple is at risk of effecting a child in ways they wouldn't if they had a traditional family.

I don't have facts, just intuition. I am willing to read any data that goes against my argument.

Let's make this a learning experience.

An article about the preliminary report from the world's largest same-sex parenting study: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick-for-samesex-families-20130605-2npxf.html

National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: http://www.nllfs.org/

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

There are eight outcome variables where differences between the children of homosexual parents and married parents were not only present, and favorable to the married parents, but where these findings were statistically significant for both children of lesbian mothers and "gay" fathers and both with and without controls. While all the findings in the study are important, these are the strongest possible ones--virtually irrefutable. Compared with children raised by their married biological parents (IBF), children of homosexual parents (LM and GF):

• Are much more likely to have received welfare (IBF 17%; LM 69%; GF 57%)
• Have lower educational attainment
• Report less safety and security in their family of origin
• Report more ongoing "negative impact" from their family of origin
• Are more likely to suffer from depression
• Have been arrested more often
• If they are female, have had more sexual partners--both male and female

The high mathematical standard of "statistical significance" was more difficult to reach for the children of "gay fathers" in this study because there were fewer of them. The following, however, are some additional areas in which the children of lesbian mothers (who represented 71% of all the children with homosexual parents in this study) differed from the IBF children, in ways that were statistically significant in both a direct comparison and with controls. Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

 

[rct]

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

There are eight outcome variables where differences between the children of homosexual parents and married parents were not only present, and favorable to the married parents, but where these findings were statistically significant for both children of lesbian mothers and "gay" fathers and both with and without controls. While all the findings in the study are important, these are the strongest possible ones--virtually irrefutable. Compared with children raised by their married biological parents (IBF), children of homosexual parents (LM and GF):

• Are much more likely to have received welfare (IBF 17%; LM 69%; GF 57%)
• Have lower educational attainment
• Report less safety and security in their family of origin
• Report more ongoing "negative impact" from their family of origin
• Are more likely to suffer from depression
• Have been arrested more often
• If they are female, have had more sexual partners--both male and female

The high mathematical standard of "statistical significance" was more difficult to reach for the children of "gay fathers" in this study because there were fewer of them. The following, however, are some additional areas in which the children of lesbian mothers (who represented 71% of all the children with homosexual parents in this study) differed from the IBF children, in ways that were statistically significant in both a direct comparison and with controls. Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

Your link is from the discredited anti-gay Family Research Council

 

[joffer]

 

[joffer]

Regnerus appeared as an expert witness in a 2014 federal court hearing regarding Michigan's ban on same-sex marriage. The judge, Bernard A. Friedman, repudiated Regnerus' testimony, saying "The Court finds Regnerus’s testimony entirely unbelievable and not worthy of serious consideration" and noting that Regnerus had attempted to conceal the sources of the funding supporting the research.[6][7]

 

[Eminence]

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

There are eight outcome variables where differences between the children of homosexual parents and married parents were not only present, and favorable to the married parents, but where these findings were statistically significant for both children of lesbian mothers and "gay" fathers and both with and without controls. While all the findings in the study are important, these are the strongest possible ones--virtually irrefutable. Compared with children raised by their married biological parents (IBF), children of homosexual parents (LM and GF):

• Are much more likely to have received welfare (IBF 17%; LM 69%; GF 57%)
• Have lower educational attainment
• Report less safety and security in their family of origin
• Report more ongoing "negative impact" from their family of origin
• Are more likely to suffer from depression
• Have been arrested more often
• If they are female, have had more sexual partners--both male and female

The high mathematical standard of "statistical significance" was more difficult to reach for the children of "gay fathers" in this study because there were fewer of them. The following, however, are some additional areas in which the children of lesbian mothers (who represented 71% of all the children with homosexual parents in this study) differed from the IBF children, in ways that were statistically significant in both a direct comparison and with controls. Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

Your link is from the discredited anti-gay Family Research Council

Then I'm a victim of propaganda!

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

[*]Use marijuana more frequently

Em, is there something you want to get off your chest?

 

[Henry Ford]

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

So when you wrote "Let them get married, don't let them have kids," that was you being tolerant?

As tolerant as those calling me a bigot, yeah. If two guys want to go at it like animals, they have that right.

I do feel that a same sex couple is at risk of effecting a child in ways they wouldn't if they had a traditional family.

I don't have facts, just intuition. I am willing to read any data that goes against my argument.

Let's make this a learning experience.

An article about the preliminary report from the world's largest same-sex parenting study: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick-for-samesex-families-20130605-2npxf.html

National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: http://www.nllfs.org/

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

There are eight outcome variables where differences between the children of homosexual parents and married parents were not only present, and favorable to the married parents, but where these findings were statistically significant for both children of lesbian mothers and "gay" fathers and both with and without controls. While all the findings in the study are important, these are the strongest possible ones--virtually irrefutable. Compared with children raised by their married biological parents (IBF), children of homosexual parents (LM and GF):

• Are much more likely to have received welfare (IBF 17%; LM 69%; GF 57%)
• Have lower educational attainment
• Report less safety and security in their family of origin
• Report more ongoing "negative impact" from their family of origin
• Are more likely to suffer from depression
• Have been arrested more often
• If they are female, have had more sexual partners--both male and female

The high mathematical standard of "statistical significance" was more difficult to reach for the children of "gay fathers" in this study because there were fewer of them. The following, however, are some additional areas in which the children of lesbian mothers (who represented 71% of all the children with homosexual parents in this study) differed from the IBF children, in ways that were statistically significant in both a direct comparison and with controls. Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

That study has been crushed, the person who did it discredited, and even anti-gay-marriage and -adoption activists are distancing themselves from him.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/10/utah_gay_marriage_opponents_drop_mark_regnerus_debunked_study.html

 

[Koya]

But I feel that children raised by two members of the same sex won't exactly fit in perfectly with a society of people raised by two members of the opposite sex.

Do you think the rest of us should live our lives based on how you feel about things?

Nope. ...and I hope you don't expect me to live my life based on how you feel. That's the best part about being human, we are free to feel how we feel based on life experience.

So stop asking that your views be used to deny rights and equality to others.

If you want to live your life by a bigoted set of standards, that's your right. If you want others to live their lives (or rather, LIMIT their lives) by your bigoted set of standards, you have overstepped the bounds of what tolerance is about.

I don't agree, so I'm a bigot. Thanks.If we were in Russia, the sides would be flipped. I would not be calling you a bigot though...

While it may help you feel better to think that it's just a "disagreement" the truth is far more ugly. I claim you are a bigot only because you continue to espouse clearly bigoted views.

when you want to deny a group of people equality and freedom because they belong to a " group" that's not just espousing a bigoted viewpoint , it's looking to have your govt legislate or accept bigotry in practice.

As much as your feelings may be hurt by realizing that you may actually be a bigot, trust me , you hurt far less than the groups of people that are denied freedom equality and even humanity because of people like you .

If you are ok with harming others and don't care about being a negative force on this earth I don't ask that you agree with me. I ask only that you don't look to have others harm because of your (bigoted in this case) opinions. ESPECIALLY when your opinions have been outright refuted by actual fact.

 

[Henry Ford]

Your link is from the discredited anti-gay Family Research Council

Then I'm a victim of propaganda!

You're a victim of failing to critically think about a topic and parroting a bigoted organization's ridiculous propaganda. The minute you start espousing those views to other people, you're not the victim - you're the perpetrator.

 

[Eminence]

Am I still allowed to hold onto my racial stereotypes?

 

[Joe Summer]

Looks like Eminence picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

 

[Henry Ford]

Am I still allowed to hold onto my racial stereotypes?

I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Eminence]

Am I still allowed to hold onto my racial stereotypes?

I wouldn't recommend it.

:(

Talk about the worst time in American history to be a heterosexual white man.

 

[Joe Summer]

Am I still allowed to hold onto my racial stereotypes?

I wouldn't recommend it.

But everyone else on here is still allowed to make fun of me for being a skinny, white, and poor? :( Talk about the short end of the stick...

Aren't you the guy who looks like Dr. Bashir from "Deep Space Nine"?

 

[TheIronSheik]

Am I still allowed to hold onto my racial stereotypes?

I wouldn't recommend it.

:(

Has anyone called you a honky yet?

 

[Henry Ford]

Am I still allowed to hold onto my racial stereotypes?

I wouldn't recommend it.

:(

Talk about the worst time in American history to be a heterosexual white man.

Any time before the 40s, when women started shaving things men don't shave.

 

[jason12vb]

I have tolerance for your views, you have none for mine.

So when you wrote "Let them get married, don't let them have kids," that was you being tolerant?

As tolerant as those calling me a bigot, yeah. If two guys want to go at it like animals, they have that right.

I do feel that a same sex couple is at risk of effecting a child in ways they wouldn't if they had a traditional family.

I don't have facts, just intuition. I am willing to read any data that goes against my argument.

Let's make this a learning experience.

An article about the preliminary report from the world's largest same-sex parenting study: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick-for-samesex-families-20130605-2npxf.html

National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: http://www.nllfs.org/

http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

There are eight outcome variables where differences between the children of homosexual parents and married parents were not only present, and favorable to the married parents, but where these findings were statistically significant for both children of lesbian mothers and "gay" fathers and both with and without controls. While all the findings in the study are important, these are the strongest possible ones--virtually irrefutable. Compared with children raised by their married biological parents (IBF), children of homosexual parents (LM and GF):

• Are much more likely to have received welfare (IBF 17%; LM 69%; GF 57%)
• Have lower educational attainment
• Report less safety and security in their family of origin
• Report more ongoing "negative impact" from their family of origin
• Are more likely to suffer from depression
• Have been arrested more often
• If they are female, have had more sexual partners--both male and female

The high mathematical standard of "statistical significance" was more difficult to reach for the children of "gay fathers" in this study because there were fewer of them. The following, however, are some additional areas in which the children of lesbian mothers (who represented 71% of all the children with homosexual parents in this study) differed from the IBF children, in ways that were statistically significant in both a direct comparison and with controls. Children of lesbian mothers:

• Are more likely to be currently cohabiting
• Are almost 4 times more likely to be currently on public assistance
• Are less likely to be currently employed full-time
• Are more than 3 times more likely to be unemployed
• Are nearly 4 times more likely to identify as something other than entirely heterosexual
• Are 3 times as likely to have had an affair while married or cohabiting
• Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."
• Are nearly 4 times as likely to have been "physically forced" to have sex against their will
• Are more likely to have "attachment" problems related to the ability to depend on others
• Use marijuana more frequently
• Smoke more frequently
• Watch TV for long periods more frequently
• Have more often pled guilty to a non-minor offense

That study has been crushed, the person who did it discredited, and even anti-gay-marriage and -adoption activists are distancing themselves from him.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/10/utah_gay_marriage_opponents_drop_mark_regnerus_debunked_study.html

Aside from the whole credible thing...why compare kids being raised with their biological parents to kids being adopted in the first place? What would those numbers have been for kids adopted by a Male and Female..I suspect they would have been troubling as well? Why not compare adoption by M/F vs adoption by same sex?

Pretty easy to find stats and studies to back up any view one may have...it's a little tougher to find credible ones that actually attempt to compare similar scenarios.

 

[timschochet]

I think that Eminence has displayed an extremely high level of personal responsibility for his age, as demonstrated in other threads. We can trust him to make moral choices for society.

 

[Henry Ford]

I think that Eminence has displayed an extremely high level of personal responsibility for his age, as demonstrated in other threads. We can trust him to make moral choices for society.

I think anyone who's gotten by without thinking about things critically, who then considers thinking about things critically and asks for evidence, and (even jokingly) refers to himself as being a victim of propaganda has taken a small step forward.

Make fun of him up until that point. That's how we change society.

 

[Henry Ford]

Also, "skinny, white, and poor" is pretty much the American dream of the suburban millennials right now, isn't it?