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Government Response To The Coronavirus (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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massraider
Footballguy
Who knows what those ventilators will insert into your lungs when you weren't looking???
It's all about lung control. Believe me.
I had a uncle/2nd cousin/neice/friend of a friend that was on one of those ventilators. Now she sets off metal detectors, and while she's not magnetic (yet), she is her own WiFi hotspot.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Sad. I only hope those that need to wear a ventilator to survive who refused to wear a mask change their tune.
The saddest part about these governors playing politics with mask mandates and putting kids in danger, it’s that they have an audience that loves it. The latest that all my high school classmates are posting is a doctor at a town hall misquoting a study to discourage masks and they can’t understand why YouTube keeps taking it down.
Osaurus
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If only there was some kind of scientific advance that could allow us to choose none of the above.
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ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I really wish a Republican were in charge of the FDA, so that that agency would at least get a small bit of the venom reserved for certain red state governors. You want to know who's killing your kids? It's the guys who didn't think ahead that maybe it would be a good idea to vaccinate school-aged kids.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The saddest part about mask mandates is that they have an audience that loves it. The latest from all the people I know that are huge virtue signalers is how their silly cloth masks save kids' lives.
Too bad youtube lets anybody that wants to push that dumb agenda.
-fish-
Footballguy
Republicans were in charge of the FDA until January 20, 2021. Trump actually appointed 5 different heads of the FDA, but they kept quitting. Getting rid of his last one, Stephen Hahn, was one of Biden's first acts. He directed FEMA to distribute hydroxychloroquine to pharmacies, despite no proof that it provided any benefit. He also contributed to the delay in any meaningful response in early 2020.
I'd rather have someone competent in charge than another person to blame.
Dickies
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Wear a crappy cloth mask!!!
How dare you open the windows in the winter time! I dont want to have to wear a sweater.
How dare you open the windows in the winter time! I dont want to have to wear a sweater.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. Would be great if we came up with creative approaches to get more people vaccinated so that we could ignore the virtue signaling crowd.parasaurolophus said:
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Should be creative approaches to all sorts of things. Outdoor schooling, ventilation improvements, doors and windows opened.
Instead these people only have one trick. "Wear a mask!!!"
Rich Conway
Footballguy
While the FDA has it's issues, let's not pretend that the single largest cause of our vaccination failures as a country isn't right-leaning media and politicians discouraging them.IvanKaramazov said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I do actually dispute that narrative. Republicans aren't the ones blocking vaccine approval.
Edit: Also, while my main point here is to highlight how dangerously incompetent the FDA has been, it's kind of lazy to write off vaccine hesitancy in purely partisan terms. The mainstream media -- NYT, WashPo, CNN, etc. -- have all been objectively anti-vax by hyping breakthrough cases, freaking people out over statistically irrelevant side effects, etc. And if you go state by state, nobody is close to anything like herd immunity. Washington DC apparently is sitting at at 56% vaccination rate. I can pretty much guarantee that the other 44% are not MAGA chuds. And of course vaccine hesitancy isn't even a problem that's unique to the US. I think vaccine refusal is stupid and I would love to change people's minds on this one, but the narrative has gotten pretty lazy.
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djmich
Footballguy
Ya’ll and your politicians. Although the country is full of dumb people, the idea that they are living their lives based on what Marjorie Taylor Green is telling them or the local whoever is nonsense.
Those people certainly exist, but I’d be interested in the data that shows it. Data that says I’m not getting vaxxed because so and so said I shouldn’t.
People are different, with different thoughts and actions. Those people are more likely to vote for people that think similarly.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
The truth is I don't know why they haven't approved it yet. I don't know why it hasn't been authorized for under 12. I suspect you don't know the reasons either.
I do know that I don't want Joe Biden to have the power to straight up order the FDA to approve something. I'm sure you can see how such a power might be used by an unethical, wannabe-dictator President?
Put simply, though, the primary reason such a large number of currently eligible people have this far refused to be vaccinated has nothing to do the FDA, and everything to do with the news sources and politicians they listen to discouraging them from doing so.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I don't think any president should have the power to tell adults what medicines they can and can't use. The whole idea that drugs are forbidden until the FDA gives them a green light is something that needs to go. Obviously supply constraints were always going to slow down vaccine distribution, and that's clearly not the FDA's fault. But we should have been rolling out vaccines immediately after the FDA determined that they were safe. Waiting around for efficacy killed way more people than anything Ron DeSantis ever did. But he has an R after his name so it's a lot more emotionally satisfying to go after him than some non-partisan agency that's just rolling along like nothing special is going on.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit here on the two bolded sentences. Regardless, this seems to be an argument that we should abolish the FDA entirely, which I'll grant is an interesting debate, but not terribly relevant to the reasons why so many of our eligible population has this far refused to be vaccinated.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
The FDA tests drugs for two things: 1) safety, and 2) efficacy.
I'm okay with the FDA keep drugs off the market until they establish safety. Once that's established, I don't think there's a defensible argument for standing in the way of adults making whatever medical decisions they want. If I feel like injecting myself with saline solution every morning, that's nobody's business but my own.
In the specific case of the covid vaccines, I would have chosen vaccination months earlier if given the choice. (I signed up for every trial I could find, but I'm a horrible candidate for vaccine trials because I just sit at home all the time, and that's not who you want for a test subject, so no luck for me).
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I thought there would be no more surges of this magnitude, so did DeSantis. So he went from daily to weekly updates from the DOH a few months ago. When the summer surge came, he said he expected it, because there was also a summer surge in 2020, related to people escaping the heat in their air-conditioned shelters, and he's mostly right.
Now that deaths are increasing much more than expected, I'd like to know deaths by age group and vaccination status on a daily basis, since the 7-day average is over 100 daily. The weekly report shows cumulative deaths since day 1 by age group. Ditto for ICU hospitalizations. It could be a lesson for people everywhere.
Now that deaths are increasing much more than expected, I'd like to know deaths by age group and vaccination status on a daily basis, since the 7-day average is over 100 daily. The weekly report shows cumulative deaths since day 1 by age group. Ditto for ICU hospitalizations. It could be a lesson for people everywhere.
the moops
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
I think you are taking a far too narrow view of this. Sure, you didn't miss work and it appears that your social life didn't change.tonydead said:
But, ever have to wait an extra couple days for a product? Or go to a gorcery store only to see they were out of certain things? Have a friend who had a loved one who died? Etc
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Of course not. But to Ivan's point from a couple weeks ago, it could sway certain businesses, schools, etc. to impose a requirement. Also to his point, approval for vaccinations for kids under 12 would increase our total vaxxed population rate quite a bit.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Unfortunately I think this is right. I was kind of the same way, and I think delta sort of caught us with our pants down. Right now, I'm wishing that so many states had not switched over to reporting data weekly, that they were breaking out their data the way you described, that we were making better headway in tracking asymptomatic breakthrough infections, etc.
Again, this isn't just a DeSantis thing. The CDC stopped tracking non-serious breakthrough infections back in May, and that seemed like kind of a reasonable decision at the time. (Not the decision I would have made, but not an obviously stupid decision either).
Max Power
Footballguy
New data suggests Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines may be less effective against Delta
A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.
What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.
Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.
Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.
But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states. For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/data-suggests-pfizer-modernas-vaccines-090012364.html
A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.
What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.
Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.
Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.
But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states. For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/data-suggests-pfizer-modernas-vaccines-090012364.html
What is wrong with people?
https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1425449438202548224
The parking lot after a school board meeting last night in Franklin, the wealthiest place in Tennessee. Parents harassed medical professionals who had spoken in favor of masks in schools. “We know who you are. You can leave freely, but we will find you.”
(video in link)
https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/1425449438202548224
The parking lot after a school board meeting last night in Franklin, the wealthiest place in Tennessee. Parents harassed medical professionals who had spoken in favor of masks in schools. “We know who you are. You can leave freely, but we will find you.”
(video in link)
Osaurus
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
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2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
I know dozens of health care workers and not a single one is against the vax. They sigh and roll their eyes in disbelief when I ask them their thoughts on people who refuse to get vaccinated.FairWarning said:
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2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
What's "wrong" with them is propaganda works. Most of this misinformation is being spread by enemies of the US. It does not help when elected officials decide to amplify the message.
If the Internet were around in the 1940's there's not a doubt in my mind the Axis powers win the war easily.
Mile High
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Disturbing. Doctors were heroes last year.
I might be overinterpretting the curves, looking at case & hospitalization rates on Covidactnow.org, but last summer the Covid surges in FL, GA, TN lagged each other by about a week going from south to north. It seems to be happening again, if so, the current surge in TN is weeks away from peaking. Human behavior and weather are hard to change. I think the time of the summer surges is related to weather, indoor activity, back to school. In contrast, the 2020 winter surges in those 3 states was reversed, starting first in TN, perhaps related to cold weather.
I posted months ago about the seasonal / geographic / weather lag in COVID cases visualized on that dashboard going from ND to SD, NE, KS, OK, TX for the 2020 winter surge starting in late Sep 2020. The average low in Bismarck in October is 32. The case rates are still available on the dashboard; the north to south lags are impressive to me.
Sand
Footballguy
18-40 is the age group that is under the national average. That's my definition of laggards. The whole "blame the right" is a lot of smoke, but the fire is with young folk.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I don’t think that link gives enough of a breakdown to draw that simple conclusion as the main explanation.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
That won't matter either just like all the deathbed social media posts from "my choice" individuals lamenting their decision to not get vaccinated. It's like we live in a country of teenagers where some are invincible and nothing bad will ever happen to them.
Sand
Footballguy
The claim was that political affiliation was the main explanation:
That simply isn't true. Age is approximately 1.7 times the indicator that political affiliation is.
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i'm guessing main cause of vaccine resistance is the well deserved mistrust a whole lot of people (politics aside) have for government, MSM, corporations, and powerful organizations/establishment in general.
i think the majority would agree with the generalizations:
politicians lie
business is primarily concerned with profit
the more individuals and organizations have to lose, the more likely they are to go along with the current popular narrative to cover their ###.
given that, i've been kind of amazed that trust seems to be the default mode for so many in this thread. kind of get it though. way back when WMD in Iraq was being questioned, my mom told me "you have to trust somebody".
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Of course I can.
We shouldn't be making policy decisions based entirely on down-side risk, especially for adults.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That's a cause, but people are acting as if it's the only cause, when that's very obviously not the case.
The reason why young people (for example) aren't getting vaccinated isn't because they're Trump supporters or even that they have any political awareness whatsoever. They're not getting vaccinated because they're young, and young people systematically make bad risk-reward decisions. I don't actually know very much about Lamar Jackson, for example, but I'm assuming that he's not taking his marching orders from Sean Hannity. He's just a young guy, which is a demographic that systematically makes bad risk-reward tradeoffs.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Anybody have the vaccination rates for young Democrats v. young Republicans? I can’t find a good breakdown.
My intuition is that, while young people overall have lower vaccination rates than older people do, there is a large partisan difference in the younger age groups as well.
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