What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Government Response To The Coronavirus (2 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
i'm guessing main cause of vaccine resistance is the well deserved mistrust a whole lot of people (politics aside) have for government, MSM, corporations, and powerful organizations/establishment in general.

i think the majority would agree with the generalizations:

politicians lie

business is primarily concerned with profit

the more individuals and organizations have to lose, the more likely they are to go along with the current popular narrative to cover their ###.

given that, i've been kind of amazed that trust seems to be the default mode for so many in this thread.  kind of get it though.  way back when WMD in Iraq was being questioned, my mom told me "you have to trust somebody".


This is what I don't understand.  The people who claim that the US is the greatest country to have ever existed, they don't even have the desire or need to visit other countries, and if you don't agree USA #1 you can get your commie, socialist butt out. At the same time they don't trust the government. 

Like the Chewbacca defense, it just doesn't make sense. 

 
Anybody have the vaccination rates for young Democrats v. young Republicans?  I can’t find a good breakdown.

My intuition is that, while young people overall have lower vaccination rates than older people do, there is a large partisan difference in the younger age groups as well.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of in college versus not.  And even breakdown based on majors for college students and industries where they work for non college students.   

All of that said I don't think that the partisan assumptions we can reasonably accurately make at least for groups if not individuals for other age groups based on knowing a few things ever apply to college students.

 
This is what I don't understand.  The people who claim that the US is the greatest country to have ever existed, they don't even have the desire or need to visit other countries, and if you don't agree USA #1 you can get your commie, socialist butt out. At the same time they don't trust the government. 

Like the Chewbacca defense, it just doesn't make sense. 
yeah, the phenomena you mention is weird.  but i said politics aside.  my guess is that there are people across the political spectrum who mistrust government and powerful institutions, and that they are actually more likely to be apolitical and agnostic about the USA #1 status than average.

 
i'm guessing main cause of vaccine resistance is the well deserved mistrust a whole lot of people (politics aside) have for government, MSM, corporations, and powerful organizations/establishment in general.

i think the majority would agree with the generalizations:

politicians lie

business is primarily concerned with profit

the more individuals and organizations have to lose, the more likely they are to go along with the current popular narrative to cover their ###.

given that, i've been kind of amazed that trust seems to be the default mode for so many in this thread.  kind of get it though.  way back when WMD in Iraq was being questioned, my mom told me "you have to trust somebody".


I don't necessarily disagree with most of your points but I think there's two important things to remember about this pandemic:

1. "They" can't make money off dead people

2. "They" are getting vaccinated too

 
Has Florida stopped reporting Covid cases?  Can’t find anything for the last 2 days.  We have a trip there in a month and wanted to see if we should cancel.

 
This is what I don't understand.  The people who claim that the US is the greatest country to have ever existed, they don't even have the desire or need to visit other countries, and if you don't agree USA #1 you can get your commie, socialist butt out. At the same time they don't trust the government. 

Like the Chewbacca defense, it just doesn't make sense. 
Maybe they don't think its the politicians that made us great?

 
Shocked that Biden is getting a pass on this huge uptick on his watch. For as bad as Trump was, Biden is making Trump look competent in handling COVID. Where are the executive orders?  

 
He gets no pass and should not get a pass for the immigration side of it.  Beyond that he has absolutely handled it far better than Trump.  Vaccine distribution and availability has been dome extremely well.  Messaging on how to be safe and slow this thing has been on point.

Short of forcing closures and forcing vaccination…not sure there is much more a POTUS can do.

Executive orders for what?

 
He gets no pass and should not get a pass for the immigration side of it.  Beyond that he has absolutely handled it far better than Trump.  Vaccine distribution and availability has been dome extremely well.  Messaging on how to be safe and slow this thing has been on point.

Short of forcing closures and forcing vaccination…not sure there is much more a POTUS can do.

Executive orders for what?
How about banning mass gatherings during a pandemic for starters. That should be a walk in the park compared to invalidating legally binding contracts between individuals to prevent the spread of Covid. 
 

how about an order saying no financial assistance without a vaccine card. Or an order that the feds won’t pick up the Covid hospital bills for the non vaxxed. No plane travel without a vaccine card. Or if you prefer the carrot, $500 stimulus check for getting vaccinated. 

 
My propaganda proposal - “Stop the Chinese from their germ warfare attacks! Get vaccinated and mask up for your country!”

We could make some old school bond posters. 

 
Thought we were told by cdc, Fauci, etc that once we reached herd immunity we would bear covid.  The reality is covid not going away.  

 
This is what I don't understand.  The people who claim that the US is the greatest country to have ever existed, they don't even have the desire or need to visit other countries, and if you don't agree USA #1 you can get your commie, socialist butt out. At the same time they don't trust the government. 

Like the Chewbacca defense, it just doesn't make sense. 
....and many of them wanted to make America great again.   As in, it wasn't great 5 years ago.

 
This is flat out wrong.    Biden just continued doing what Trump admin planned.   

Perhaps you have some links to big changes that Biden administration did.
Your first statement is incorrect.  Especially involving the vaccine rollout and messaging.

they increased positive messaging on the vaccine…tue truth about the virus vs the downplaying from Trump. As well as increasing availability and shots per day.

 
Has Biden done ANYTHING to stop the spread? Trump did so much with Operation Warp Speed, his shipment of ventilators, sending navy ships, shutting down the economy. All that is lost because of the horrible messaging but at least he's done stuff. 

 
Has Biden done ANYTHING to stop the spread? Trump did so much with Operation Warp Speed, his shipment of ventilators, sending navy ships, shutting down the economy. All that is lost because of the horrible messaging but at least he's done stuff. 
Trump dod not shut down the economy.  So lets be honest there.

warp speed great that he signed it and got out of the way.

 
Has Biden done ANYTHING to stop the spread? Trump did so much with Operation Warp Speed, his shipment of ventilators, sending navy ships, shutting down the economy. All that is lost because of the horrible messaging but at least he's done stuff. 
He gave a kid his mask…

 
CDC response to the newest surge:  screw up (again) and overstate numbers.

This government agency is showing itself to be as competent as FEMA after Katrina.
Why are you giving FL a pass for under-reporting their numbers?

The gap was significant, with the CDC initially claiming there were 28,317 new cases on Sunday, while the Florida DOH puts that number at 15,319. 

On Tuesday the CDC adjusted its number down to 19,584.

 
Has Biden done ANYTHING to stop the spread? Trump did so much with Operation Warp Speed, his shipment of ventilators, sending navy ships, shutting down the economy. All that is lost because of the horrible messaging but at least he's done stuff. 
STILL Hasn't hit his 70% vaccination rate.   

 
Shocked that Biden is getting a pass on this huge uptick on his watch. For as bad as Trump was, Biden is making Trump look competent in handling COVID. Where are the executive orders?  
There is nothing that Biden has done or could do to make this happen.

Trump lied to the American people at the onset, continuously downplayed the seriousness of the virus,  rarely wore or encouraged the use of masks, held multiple super-spreader events, and made crazy suggestions like injecting light and disinfectants into the body.

He himself was the source of inconsistencies in the messages delivered to the American people during a time of national crisis.  

I'm no Biden lover and perhaps he should be doing more to encourage vaccinations/masks/social distancing but there is no way anyone could categorize Trump's handling of the pandemic as competent

ETA:

The Trump administration did fast track operation warp speed to expedite development of the vaccines and for this he deserves a lot of credit but it doesn't absolve him of the above.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
STILL Hasn't hit his 70% vaccination rate.   


That is a fact but the failing is not due to unavailability of vaccines or any problems with distribution.  The administration has also continuously pleaded with the American people to get vaccinated.

JFK once said  “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.  Biden has told the American people what they can do to help and the response from a large segment of the population has been the raising of their middle finger.

Patriots indeed...

 
That is a fact but the failing is not due to unavailability of vaccines or any problems with distribution.  The administration has also continuously pleaded with the American people to get vaccinated.

JFK once said  “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.  Biden has told the American people what they can do to help and the response from a large segment of the population has been the raising of their middle finger.

Patriots indeed...
Yeah not doing this argument again,  He promised 70%.  Hasn't delivered. Which means he failed.

 
Your first statement is incorrect.  Especially involving the vaccine rollout and messaging.

they increased positive messaging on the vaccine…tue truth about the virus vs the downplaying from Trump. As well as increasing availability and shots per day.
How long did Trump oversee the distribution?     Every drop of vaccine that was available was used.   Trumps goal 1mm shots a day.   Bidens goal when he took office.  100mm shots in first hundred days.

But I believe I asked for links.    Not your opinion.

 
That is a fact but the failing is not due to unavailability of vaccines or any problems with distribution.  The administration has also continuously pleaded with the American people to get vaccinated.

JFK once said  “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.  Biden has told the American people what they can do to help and the response from a large segment of the population has been the raising of their middle finger.

Patriots indeed...
So you're saying nobody is listening to him?

 
There is nothing that Biden has done or could do to make this happen.

Trump lied to the American people at the onset, continuously downplayed the seriousness of the virus,  rarely wore or encouraged the use of masks, held multiple super-spreader events, and made crazy suggestions like injecting light and disinfectants into the body.

He himself was the source of inconsistencies in the messages delivered to the American people during a time of national crisis.  

I'm no Biden lover and perhaps he should be doing more to encourage vaccinations/masks/social distancing but there is no way anyone could categorize Trump's handling of the pandemic as competent


Yet here we are with cases numbers 2x what they were a year ago without a vaccine available.  I don't care that Biden looks 10x more competent than Trump, I care about results.  The lack of communication is appalling.  At least a year ago we would get Fauci on a routine basis.

The info may be out there, but I would love to know exactly what the FDA is doing regarding approval.  They should have any and every resource available to them to get this done.

 
How about banning mass gatherings during a pandemic for starters. That should be a walk in the park compared to invalidating legally binding contracts between individuals to prevent the spread of Covid. 
 

how about an order saying no financial assistance without a vaccine card. Or an order that the feds won’t pick up the Covid hospital bills for the non vaxxed. No plane travel without a vaccine card. Or if you prefer the carrot, $500 stimulus check for getting vaccinated. 


Waaaaaaay too much of this has become political.   I don't enjoy saying it, but I wonder how much of the fact that most think that a large portion of that 30%+ that aren't vaccinated are Trump supporters.  A bit of a built in scapegoat there, and politically can always just finger point to the other side.  

But yes, IMO especially with the cases spiking something stronger should be done.   Not sure how many of your solutions besides going back to limiting mass gatherings and plane travel without proof I like, but I do think something else could be done to "force" the hands of more people.  

I won't go nearly as far as you did by saying that he makes the previous guy look competent.   He has encouraged people to get vaccinated to the point of talking about going door to door to remind people, and hasn't spread the disinformation like the previous admin.  

 
Yet here we are with cases numbers 2x what they were a year ago without a vaccine available.  I don't care that Biden looks 10x more competent than Trump, I care about results.  The lack of communication is appalling.  At least a year ago we would get Fauci on a routine basis.

The info may be out there, but I would love to know exactly what the FDA is doing regarding approval.  They should have any and every resource available to them to get this done.


I don't know about you but I have been bombarded with info on the vaccine, delta variant, rising cases in unvaccinated population, hospitals reaching capacity levels, etc. non-stop.   Biden, Fauci and CDC head Rochelle Walensky are on network news nearly every day.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks the problem is lack of communication.  If anything, we are on overload.

 
Waaaaaaay too much of this has become political.   I don't enjoy saying it, but I wonder how much of the fact that most think that a large portion of that 30%+ that aren't vaccinated are Trump supporters.  A bit of a built in scapegoat there, and politically can always just finger point to the other side.  

But yes, IMO especially with the cases spiking something stronger should be done.   Not sure how many of your solutions besides going back to limiting mass gatherings and plane travel without proof I like, but I do think something else could be done to "force" the hands of more people.  

I won't go nearly as far as you did by saying that he makes the previous guy look competent.   He has encouraged people to get vaccinated to the point of talking about going door to door to remind people, and hasn't spread the disinformation like the previous admin.  


Oh I'm pretty sure a majority of the 30% fall into the Trump camp or religious nut camp.  I suspect they tend to be less educated too.  Problem is that Biden signed up to lead everyone, not just 70% of us.  It's obvious that the 30% is now impacting the 70% of us.  Something should have been done to move the needle on the 30%.  I suspect a good percentage of that 30% have a change in principles if you offer a $1000 stimulus check.  I suspect that's cheaper than the consequences of 140k new cases a day but maybe I'm wrong.

 
Oh I'm pretty sure a majority of the 30% fall into the Trump camp or religious nut camp.  I suspect they tend to be less educated too.  Problem is that Biden signed up to lead everyone, not just 70% of us.  It's obvious that the 30% is now impacting the 70% of us.  Something should have been done to move the needle on the 30%.  I suspect a good percentage of that 30% have a change in principles if you offer a $1000 stimulus check.  I suspect that's cheaper than the consequences of 140k new cases a day but maybe I'm wrong.
You remember the backlash about the door to door thing, and how much you saw of "show me your papers, Comrade!" crap we saw when we were discussing having to show proof of vaccination for entry to places?  

I am just curious what you think could have been done better by Joe to move that needle for the 30% more?   You think a 1K check would actually do it?  I guess I still don't think so, but I wouldn't bet either way.  

 
That is a fact but the failing is not due to unavailability of vaccines or any problems with distribution.  The administration has also continuously pleaded with the American people to get vaccinated.

JFK once said  “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.  Biden has told the American people what they can do to help and the response from a large segment of the population has been the raising of their middle finger.

Patriots indeed...
Generally speaking, we are a country of weak, selfish individuals.  We rest on the laurels of our Greatest Generation as proof of our own self sacrifice and suffering.

Prior to Trump I blamed evangelicals like Osteen who claimed that not only is it okay, but it's good to be rich and care only about yourself.  If God didn't want it that way, He wouldn't have gave you so many blessings. Meanwhile millions of our countrymen don't have enough food, shelter or medical care. At the same time people scream we are a nation founded under Christian principles that should be adhered too.  Then if a politician has the audacity to want health care for all Americans they are demonized as a "socialist". WWJD? indeed. 

I personally don't have any animosity for the folks who are always voting against their own good. Like Charlie Brown having the football yanked away, they've been lied to and tricked so many times they don't know what to believe anymore. 

 
Oh I'm pretty sure a majority of the 30% fall into the Trump camp or religious nut camp.  I suspect they tend to be less educated too.  Problem is that Biden signed up to lead everyone, not just 70% of us.  It's obvious that the 30% is now impacting the 70% of us.  Something should have been done to move the needle on the 30%.  I suspect a good percentage of that 30% have a change in principles if you offer a $1000 stimulus check.  I suspect that's cheaper than the consequences of 140k new cases a day but maybe I'm wrong.
There’s a strong revolution to resist any incentives to get the vaccine too.  Someone texted me a screen shot from FB yesterday with a rant being shared about segregation.  I still don't understand what any of that means but China/Russia/Iran/NK are LOVING this and behind most of this propaganda. Meanwhile DeSantis and other governors are suing so businesses and schools can't require masks until the pandemic is in check.  It's all so unbelievable. 

 
COVID scientists:  Hey, here's a vaccine that will help a great deal.
Skeptics:  No, we don't want to get vaccinated.
COVID scientists:  Wearing masks will help prevent COVID spread.
Skeptics:  No, we don't want to wear masks.
COVID scientists:  We should shut down mass gatherings and social distance to prevent COVID spread.
Skeptics:  No, we want to go back to normal.
Administration:  Since not enough people will take mitigation measures voluntarily, let's implement mandates and vaccine passports to encourage mitigation efforts.
Skeptics:  No, you can't take away our rights!
Administration:  Please, the only way we can beat this is for people to take it seriously and get vaccinated and/or at least take effective mitigation strategies.
Skeptics:  Why won't the administration do something??!??!!

 
I don't necessarily disagree with most of your points but I think there's two important things to remember about this pandemic:

1. "They" can't make money off dead people

2. "They" are getting vaccinated too
i agree with your points.  not sure why they are important though unless you are addressing those who think "they" want to kill or physically harm people, (and there are those that think that).  i certainly didn't say or imply that.

my post was suggesting that our institutions have earned mistrust, and expressing my amazement that so many here seem to have a suspension of skepticism and say or imply that those who "don't trust the government" are crazy .

to me, it seems weird to think that suddenly, globally, there would be such a 24/7 coordinated governmental/institutional effort motivated by sincere, passionate caring about the well being of everyone of us.  call me crazy, but that seems..... different.

 
COVID scientists:  Hey, here's a vaccine that will help a great deal.
Skeptics:  No, we don't want to get vaccinated.
COVID scientists:  Wearing masks will help prevent COVID spread.
Skeptics:  No, we don't want to wear masks.
COVID scientists:  We should shut down mass gatherings and social distance to prevent COVID spread.
Skeptics:  No, we want to go back to normal.
Administration:  Since not enough people will take mitigation measures voluntarily, let's implement mandates and vaccine passports to encourage mitigation efforts.
Skeptics:  No, you can't take away our rights!
Administration:  Please, the only way we can beat this is for people to take it seriously and get vaccinated and/or at least take effective mitigation strategies.
Skeptics:  Why won't the administration do something??!??!!
COVID Scientists:  If you are black, you are susceptible to much worse covid symptoms.  GET Vaccinated!

Minorities: NO....We don't trust you.

Administration: OK. 

 
They propose a door to door campaign to encourage folks to get vaccinated and you guys freak out. Color me skeptical that anything they do to try and convince folks to get vaccinated would be viewed as anything but a failure
Ah yes  "You guys" freak out..Whatever that means.  

Again. So forget that the MINORITIES are saying no to this....It's "you guys" fault.   

Awesome.

 
Here we go again with "it's the minorities' fault", when polling shows that there is a much greater vaccination disparity by political party than by race.  Oh, sure, I know, "polls are useless!!1!"
STOP ONLY BLAMING TRUMPERS....It gets seriously old.   Call out everyone or don't call out anyone.  It's ridiculous you guys do this over and over and over again.

The minority vaccination % is very very very low..But you guys wanna blame everyone else and never ever call that out.  So when you make your silly posts that ignore the total, I will call it out.  Sorry that offends you.  Be more honest and that no one would need to do that.

 
COVID scientists:  Hey, here's a vaccine that will help a great deal.
Skeptics:  No, we don't want to get vaccinated.
COVID scientists:  Wearing masks will help prevent COVID spread.
Skeptics:  No, we don't want to wear masks.
COVID scientists:  We should shut down mass gatherings and social distance to prevent COVID spread.
Skeptics:  No, we want to go back to normal.
Administration:  Since not enough people will take mitigation measures voluntarily, let's implement mandates and vaccine passports to encourage mitigation efforts.
Skeptics:  No, you can't take away our rights!
Administration:  Please, the only way we can beat this is for people to take it seriously and get vaccinated and/or at least take effective mitigation strategies.
Skeptics:  Why won't the administration do something??!??!!
100% accurate. It's maddening. 

 
STOP ONLY BLAMING TRUMPERS....It gets seriously old.   Call out everyone or don't call out anyone.  It's ridiculous you guys do this over and over and over again.

The minority vaccination % is very very very low..But you guys wanna blame everyone else and never ever call that out.  So when you make your silly posts that ignore the total, I will call it out.  Sorry that offends you.  Be more honest and that no one would need to do that.
First off, in my post above, I wrote "Skeptics".  I did not write "GOP", "MAGA", or "Trumpers".  Second, I have repeatedly said that I blame EVERYONE (everyone eligible) who doesn't get vaccinated.  Third, the fact is that, by far, the largest vaccination disparity is by political party, not by race.

 
First off, in my post above, I wrote "Skeptics".  I did not write "GOP", "MAGA", or "Trumpers".  Second, I have repeatedly said that I blame EVERYONE (everyone eligible) who doesn't get vaccinated.  Third, the fact is that, by far, the largest vaccination disparity is by political party, not by race.
Ok sure.   I'm sure that's what you meant.  Righttttt...Whatever dude..Whatever

You repeatedly say it, but you DIDNT say it in that post.  You once again made a silly post blaming it all on "skeptics" :rolleyes:  and I called you out.  And I will do it again and again.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top