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Greg Little hype train (1 Viewer)

This type of backwards-looking thinking sometimes causes people to miss out on quality FF material, but to each his own.
I agree. The Browns got huge upgrades at two of the most important positions on the offense. For the record, I'm referring to Richardson entering the starting lineup, and McCoy getting kicked out of it. Even the slightest improvement from last year would make a couple of Browns worth having on your fantasy team this year.
Whoa whoa calm down. Richardson...ONE guy...can't turn this whole team around. There's the offensive line, which can't run block worth ####...and the passing game to take attention off Richardson to make him effective, which doesn't exist in Cleveland. Yes, McCoy is gone...but Weeden? Cleveland lost out on every QB teams wanted this past off-season and had last pick of the top 4 QBs of this draft. The guy played the shotgun with big weapons around him in college. Now he has to take snaps from the center with little to no weapons. Richardson? Will be pass blocking on passing downs or getting the most attention from defenses. Is there a chance Weeden is better than McCoy? Yes. Is there a chance he's not? Yes. Let's wait until at least the middle of training camp to start calling Weeden a huge upgrade. I wouldn't call Richardson over Hillis a HUGE upgrade either.
How do you explain these changes?

2010 vs 2011 ypg rank

Buff 25 to 14

Tenn 27 to 17

Ariz 31 to 19

Car 32 to 7

2010 vs 2011 ppg rank

Car 32 to 5

Buff 28 to 14

SF 24 to 11

Min 29 to 19

Miami 30 to 20

Shortsighted views like this limit your ability to see where opportunities may exist

 
'whatadai said:
'sspunisher said:
'zamboni said:
This type of backwards-looking thinking sometimes causes people to miss out on quality FF material, but to each his own.
I agree. The Browns got huge upgrades at two of the most important positions on the offense. For the record, I'm referring to Richardson entering the starting lineup, and McCoy getting kicked out of it. Even the slightest improvement from last year would make a couple of Browns worth having on your fantasy team this year.
Whoa whoa calm down. Richardson...ONE guy...can't turn this whole team around. There's the offensive line, which can't run block worth ####...and the passing game to take attention off Richardson to make him effective, which doesn't exist in Cleveland. Yes, McCoy is gone...but Weeden? Cleveland lost out on every QB teams wanted this past off-season and had last pick of the top 4 QBs of this draft. The guy played the shotgun with big weapons around him in college. Now he has to take snaps from the center with little to no weapons. Richardson? Will be pass blocking on passing downs or getting the most attention from defenses. Is there a chance Weeden is better than McCoy? Yes. Is there a chance he's not? Yes. Let's wait until at least the middle of training camp to start calling Weeden a huge upgrade. I wouldn't call Richardson over Hillis a HUGE upgrade either.
I wasn't talking up Weeden. I was talking down McCoy, which is why I clearly said "McCoy getting kicked out of it." That guy can barely put enough mustard on a 10 yard out. Weeden is an upgrade. Even if he throws 20 INTs, he'll make more fantasy friendly plays than McCoy made.Hillis missed a sizable chunk of games last year. And when he did play, he wasn't at 100%. So yes, Richardson is a huge upgrade over Hillis in 2011. You still got 2010 Hillis on your mind maybe. Chris OBG was playing when Hillis was out, and he was rated one of the worst RBs in football last year. Obviously Richardson is a huge upgrade over Chris OBG as well. And what do you think will happen to the passing game when "Richardson is getting the most attention from defenses?"
 
'whatadai said:
'sspunisher said:
'zamboni said:
This type of backwards-looking thinking sometimes causes people to miss out on quality FF material, but to each his own.
I agree. The Browns got huge upgrades at two of the most important positions on the offense. For the record, I'm referring to Richardson entering the starting lineup, and McCoy getting kicked out of it. Even the slightest improvement from last year would make a couple of Browns worth having on your fantasy team this year.
Whoa whoa calm down. Richardson...ONE guy...can't turn this whole team around. There's the offensive line, which can't run block worth ####...and the passing game to take attention off Richardson to make him effective, which doesn't exist in Cleveland. Yes, McCoy is gone...but Weeden? Cleveland lost out on every QB teams wanted this past off-season and had last pick of the top 4 QBs of this draft. The guy played the shotgun with big weapons around him in college. Now he has to take snaps from the center with little to no weapons. Richardson? Will be pass blocking on passing downs or getting the most attention from defenses. Is there a chance Weeden is better than McCoy? Yes. Is there a chance he's not? Yes. Let's wait until at least the middle of training camp to start calling Weeden a huge upgrade. I wouldn't call Richardson over Hillis a HUGE upgrade either.
I wasn't talking up Weeden. I was talking down McCoy, which is why I clearly said "McCoy getting kicked out of it." That guy can barely put enough mustard on a 10 yard out. Weeden is an upgrade. Even if he throws 20 INTs, he'll make more fantasy friendly plays than McCoy made.Hillis missed a sizable chunk of games last year. And when he did play, he wasn't at 100%. So yes, Richardson is a huge upgrade over Hillis in 2011. You still got 2010 Hillis on your mind maybe. Chris OBG was playing when Hillis was out, and he was rated one of the worst RBs in football last year. Obviously Richardson is a huge upgrade over Chris OBG as well. And what do you think will happen to the passing game when "Richardson is getting the most attention from defenses?"
So a player that you've never seen in a system that he's never played in will put up better fantasy numbers than McCoy. Okay.And a player is worthless after one season of injuries even though he's still young, had a great season the year before, and is completely healthy. Got it.Since when did people on here start using women logic?
 
'whatadai said:
'sspunisher said:
'zamboni said:
This type of backwards-looking thinking sometimes causes people to miss out on quality FF material, but to each his own.
I agree. The Browns got huge upgrades at two of the most important positions on the offense. For the record, I'm referring to Richardson entering the starting lineup, and McCoy getting kicked out of it. Even the slightest improvement from last year would make a couple of Browns worth having on your fantasy team this year.
Whoa whoa calm down. Richardson...ONE guy...can't turn this whole team around. There's the offensive line, which can't run block worth ####...and the passing game to take attention off Richardson to make him effective, which doesn't exist in Cleveland. Yes, McCoy is gone...but Weeden? Cleveland lost out on every QB teams wanted this past off-season and had last pick of the top 4 QBs of this draft. The guy played the shotgun with big weapons around him in college. Now he has to take snaps from the center with little to no weapons. Richardson? Will be pass blocking on passing downs or getting the most attention from defenses. Is there a chance Weeden is better than McCoy? Yes. Is there a chance he's not? Yes. Let's wait until at least the middle of training camp to start calling Weeden a huge upgrade. I wouldn't call Richardson over Hillis a HUGE upgrade either.
I wasn't talking up Weeden. I was talking down McCoy, which is why I clearly said "McCoy getting kicked out of it." That guy can barely put enough mustard on a 10 yard out. Weeden is an upgrade. Even if he throws 20 INTs, he'll make more fantasy friendly plays than McCoy made.Hillis missed a sizable chunk of games last year. And when he did play, he wasn't at 100%. So yes, Richardson is a huge upgrade over Hillis in 2011. You still got 2010 Hillis on your mind maybe. Chris OBG was playing when Hillis was out, and he was rated one of the worst RBs in football last year. Obviously Richardson is a huge upgrade over Chris OBG as well. And what do you think will happen to the passing game when "Richardson is getting the most attention from defenses?"
So a player that you've never seen in a system that he's never played in will put up better fantasy numbers than McCoy. Okay.And a player is worthless after one season of injuries even though he's still young, had a great season the year before, and is completely healthy. Got it.Since when did people on here start using women logic?
I think what hes saying is that he likes Weeden more than McCoy. I dont think hes the only person saying that either, In fact, I certainly hope, for Greg Little's sake, that Weeden gets the starting job. It's not really that we know what Weeden can do, its what he know McCoy is. pretty easy to top what went on last year at the Quarterback position.
 
benson: do you notice the big difference between your approach and his? he actually argues using facts. food for thought - might be worth trying it.
He's probably making it up in an attempt to bolster his credibility.
Saber - my comments weren't directed at you, sorry for confusion. Was addressing benson...who seems to have irrational criticism of G Little...
Alex I get that you don't like me because i'm a Bears fan, but you're picking the fight. I've posted stats or links to back up most of my claims...if anything that's what I do most of the time. I'm not sure how that can be irrational just because it doesn't match your views.I've posted or had links to:-Every catch Greg Little had in 2011-His reception, yards, YPC, TD-Other Brown WR stat totals to compair-Target/catch%-NFL Combine stats-Off the field issue linkWhat else do you need?
 
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benson: do you notice the big difference between your approach and his? he actually argues using facts. food for thought - might be worth trying it.
He's probably making it up in an attempt to bolster his credibility.
Saber - my comments weren't directed at you, sorry for confusion. Was addressing benson...who seems to have irrational criticism of G Little...
Alex I get that you don't like me because i'm a Bears fan, but you're picking the fight. I've posted stats or links to back up most of my claims...if anything that's what I do most of the time. I'm not sure how that can be irrational just because it doesn't match your views.I've posted or had links to:-Every catch Greg Little had in 2011-His reception, yards, YPC, TD-Other Brown WR stat totals to compair-Target/catch%-NFL Combine stats-Off the field issue linkWhat else do you need?
if this were the only time you were in an arguement in a thread, then I would agree with you. but dont you see the correlation between you and angry posters? coincedence?
 
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benson: do you notice the big difference between your approach and his? he actually argues using facts. food for thought - might be worth trying it.
He's probably making it up in an attempt to bolster his credibility.
Saber - my comments weren't directed at you, sorry for confusion. Was addressing benson...who seems to have irrational criticism of G Little...
Alex I get that you don't like me because i'm a Bears fan, but you're picking the fight. I've posted stats or links to back up most of my claims...if anything that's what I do most of the time. I'm not sure how that can be irrational just because it doesn't match your views.I've posted or had links to:-Every catch Greg Little had in 2011-His reception, yards, YPC, TD-Other Brown WR stat totals to compair-Target/catch%-NFL Combine stats-Off the field issue linkWhat else do you need?
benson - I actually like you. Always have. We've exchanged pleasant PMs before, and it's all cool.But your style in here can be quite abrasive at times (not throwing stones - I'm the same way and don't really give a #### if people don't like it). But the point is that you don't do a very good job of articulating your points....and then when people challenge you, usually with good reason, rather than explain you lash out. Just an observation. Again, you seem like good people to me, it's all cool by me.
 
So a player that you've never seen in a system that he's never played in will put up better fantasy numbers than McCoy. Okay.

And a player is worthless after one season of injuries even though he's still young, had a great season the year before, and is completely healthy. Got it.

Since when did people on here start using women logic?
Don't be an idiot. I don't think you realize how big of a burden McCoy's arm strength was to the Browns last year.It was directly related to the fact that he had the 2nd worst YPA in the entire league and it hurt his accuracy in the process (a low 57%), because defenses had the luxury of condensing their coverage responsibilities. Did you even watch any Browns games? The lack of respect opposing teams had for the Browns vertical passing game was so incredibly pathetic. All they did was protect the field horizontally b/c this guy would throw lame ducks anything beyond 15 yards. Of his 265 completions, only 26 went for 20+ yards. That number should be in the 50s. The fact that the Browns gave up on McCoy so early tells an even bigger story than the stats do. Is he a slow learner? Is he capable of leading an NFL offense? The Browns didn't even let him call audibles. Ever.

As for Weeden, the threat of his outstanding arm will spread the defense a bit more vertically, which will help his completion percentage underneath. I don't care what Weeden does fantasy wise, but he'll throw more yards and TDs to Greg Little than McCoy did, guaranteed.

I won't even acknowledge what you said about Hillis since you clearly didn't read what I wrote.

 
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His catch % was at 50% if i'm not mistaken...bad.
The catch % of some other rookies on bad teams that you might have heard of..Larry Fitzgerald: 50%Roddy White: 43%Calvin Johnson: 50%
I would agree that this is not atypical for rookies. Especially early in the season when they are not on the same page as the QB and misread where they need to be (or just run a sloppy route and are not at the exact spot the ball gets delivered to)I look at drops, but I also look at the quality of the ball being dropped too. passes on the numbers dont often get dropped at this level. its the ones where the receiver reaches and gets hands on the ball, but in reality that ball is slightly out of range. Those still count as drops. So this can sometimes be a misleading stat. Especially for rookies.
 
His catch % was at 50% if i'm not mistaken...bad.
The catch % of some other rookies on bad teams that you might have heard of..Larry Fitzgerald: 50%Roddy White: 43%Calvin Johnson: 50%
I would agree that this is not atypical for rookies. Especially early in the season when they are not on the same page as the QB and misread where they need to be (or just run a sloppy route and are not at the exact spot the ball gets delivered to)I look at drops, but I also look at the quality of the ball being dropped too. passes on the numbers dont often get dropped at this level. its the ones where the receiver reaches and gets hands on the ball, but in reality that ball is slightly out of range. Those still count as drops. So this can sometimes be a misleading stat. Especially for rookies.
Also, how long has Greg Little been playing wide receiver? I think it's a bit crazy to write someone off who has only played the position a couple of years. Of course he wasn't going to light the world on fire last season, anyone who thought so was in for a rude awakening. But I think there's a ton of room for improvement from him and he has a legit shot at being a great fantasy WR. I don't know if he'll do it but IMO he has the skills to.
 
I am targeting him in every league as wr4 or 5. I ha him in my dynasty league but couldn't keep him do I will be sure to lock him up again in my leagues auction.

Stud waiting to break out IMO

 
Just traded for Little today. So where are we on this train?
Moving pretty slow. The Browns so far have installed a really simple system. Lots of power running plays and lots of short routes. This isn't surprising since they have a rookie QB, RT, RB and #2 WR and their #1 WR is Little. A possession power offense with a strong RB o-line and 2 big WRs on the outside shoving CBs back appears to be their game plan and when they are passing expect a lot of simple routes and quick passes (hall marks of the WC offense) so there could well be a lot fof 3/33 and4/44 type of games early on in the season for Little.
 
Seems him and weeden are on the same page and starting to click, the browns may want to try and run the ball often but when there getting beat by 2 to 3 tds in the first half they will be forced to pass and with playing the likes of eagles, cowboys, giants, broncos, redskins, raiders, and there own division twice on top of that, all those teams have very solid run defenses they may be passing more than people think

 
His catch % was at 50% if i'm not mistaken...bad.
The catch % of some other rookies on bad teams that you might have heard of..Larry Fitzgerald: 50%

Roddy White: 43%

Calvin Johnson: 50%
Fitz=13.4 YPCRoddy=15.4 YPC

Calvin=15.8 YPC

Greg Little=11.6 YPC :unsure:
Career:Larry Fitzgerald: 13.9 YPC (11.3 lowest, with Kurt Warner in 2009)

Roddy White: 13.9 YPC (12.1 lowest, with Matt Ryan in 2010)

Calvin Johnson: 16.0 YPC (14.5 lowest, with Matt Stafford in 2010)

I don't think this argument has any basis with Little.
You clearly missed my point with a deep threat vs possession guy.
...and what's that? That Greg Little posted 11.6 YPC as a Rookie while other 'deep threat' players like Fitzgerald and White posted 11.3YPC and 12.1 at certain points in their careers? Yet they are 'deep threats' because of their YPC posted in their Rookie campaigns? How many times did McCoy even go deep last season?The fact of the matter is Greg Little was very raw coming in and those who are evaluating him and high on him understand that. He has the potential to be a playmaker. Whatever numbers you want to float around are irrelevant because we all expected those numbers from him during his Rookie campaign.
So he gets a pass no matter what happened his rookie year...got it :rolleyes:
I didn't start him his Rookie season nor did I have high expectations. He's not getting a pass but I'm not going to be down on a guy for performing like a Rookie with no offseason, that's nonsense.
So then the stats i'm pulling out do matter.Many rookie WRs performed well last year. Jimmy Graham was a stud last year with less football experience than Greg Little.
Yeah but you have Brees throwing to a 6'7 TE that can run the 40yard dash in 4.5sec, is a lot different than McCoy throwing you the ball. I had Little last year and I got him this year. I do believe he will improve on his numbers, but he is still on the Browns. I dont think he will be a WR1 but he could climb to wr 2 status. He just needs a good QB.
 
I have no clue how to project Little - he's definitely a wild card.

But instead of my own viewpoint (and others who are using armchair quarterback assessments), I am keeping an open mind based upon what team brass thinks. The Browns seemed to be one of, if not THE, most WR-needy teams out there, yet they did not address the WR position at all in the draft or in free agency when they could have very easily grabbed Blackmon or one of the other WRs out there.

That speaks volumes about what the team thinks of Little, and they're not hitching their wagon to Massequoi. Now whether Little can take advantage of his opportunity is another matter, but he's certainly got the backing of his organization.
You make excellent points and would tend to agree -- for any other franchise but the Browns. This is a team that has historically been among the poorest at gauging and drafting talent.Brady Quinn. Passing up Seymour for Gerard Warren. Tim Couch. William Green. They've drafted 2 all pros over the last 10 years -- the fact that the Browns passed on other WRs could just as well be because they regressed to their ham-fisted drafting ways yet again as opposed to being a ringing endorsement for Little.

I do like Little and think he will develop further -- he is a versatile athlete and will definitely be helped this year with a better QB and a legitimate running attack to take the pressure of needing to throw on every down. His stats will be helped by the dearth of competition, and he will definitely be relied on to move the chains, and will need to step up and get open for his rookie QB..

That said, I think his upside is still limited. The Browns' offense will be even more conservative and run-focused. With Richardson in the backfield, I can see Little being effective on play action fakes and quick hits that utilize his talents as a possession receiver, but I am less confident that Little is suited to carry this team in the ways they are likely going to need him to: stretching the defensive backfield, being a mid- and downfield threat as a split end as opposed to a flanker where he seems to thrive more.

Little will get his due, but I see that happening next year as this team builds more support pieces.

 
'Stompin said:
I have no clue how to project Little - he's definitely a wild card.

But instead of my own viewpoint (and others who are using armchair quarterback assessments), I am keeping an open mind based upon what team brass thinks. The Browns seemed to be one of, if not THE, most WR-needy teams out there, yet they did not address the WR position at all in the draft or in free agency when they could have very easily grabbed Blackmon or one of the other WRs out there.

That speaks volumes about what the team thinks of Little, and they're not hitching their wagon to Massequoi. Now whether Little can take advantage of his opportunity is another matter, but he's certainly got the backing of his organization.
You make excellent points and would tend to agree -- for any other franchise but the Browns. This is a team that has historically been among the poorest at gauging and drafting talent.Brady Quinn. Passing up Seymour for Gerard Warren. Tim Couch. William Green. They've drafted 2 all pros over the last 10 years -- the fact that the Browns passed on other WRs could just as well be because they regressed to their ham-fisted drafting ways yet again as opposed to being a ringing endorsement for Little.
None of those guys were drafted by this regime. These guys wanted Garcon and K Wright. The former wasn't interested and they played their hand poorly at the draft for the latter. I think this is why they ponied up so much for Gordon in the supplemental draft, probably would have bid but maybe not so much.
 
Browns wide receiver Greg Little, owned in 82 percent of leagues, was held without a catch on Sunday against the Eagles. He was targeted four times.
Weeden is off to a good start in destroying Little's career.
 
Browns wide receiver Greg Little, owned in 82 percent of leagues, was held without a catch on Sunday against the Eagles. He was targeted four times.
Weeden is off to a good start in destroying Little's career.
Little turned a TD into an interception all by himself.
I missed it. Cliff notes?
I'm probably going too far calling it a TD, but it would have at least been inside the 5 if he had caught it when it hit his numbers instead of knocking it up for a pick.
 
Browns wide receiver Greg Little, owned in 82 percent of leagues, was held without a catch on Sunday against the Eagles. He was targeted four times.
Weeden is off to a good start in destroying Little's career.
Little turned a TD into an interception all by himself.
I missed it. Cliff notes?
I'm probably going too far calling it a TD, but it would have at least been inside the 5 if he had caught it when it hit his numbers instead of knocking it up for a pick.
Got it. Thanks. If you saw the whole game, what is your gut instinct? Think he'll be okay?
 
Browns wide receiver Greg Little, owned in 82 percent of leagues, was held without a catch on Sunday against the Eagles. He was targeted four times.
Weeden is off to a good start in destroying Little's career.
Little turned a TD into an interception all by himself.
I missed it. Cliff notes?
I'm probably going too far calling it a TD, but it would have at least been inside the 5 if he had caught it when it hit his numbers instead of knocking it up for a pick.
Got it. Thanks. If you saw the whole game, what is your gut instinct? Think he'll be okay?
Nothing I saw in this one game would give me optimism. I still believe in his talent but I doubt I'll start him in a game again until I see signs of being on the same page with Weeden.
 
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I shied away just based on the fact that the entire WR crew is suspect and the Eagles have some elite DB's. No way were they going to let him do much if anything.

 
I'm a fan of Little but the little I saw today (no pun intended) he had a terrible drop. With how terrible the Brown's offense is going to be he just is not worth owning again in redrafts. He is not even able to make the most of his extremely limited opportunities.

 
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Yeah this pass offense is just too brutal.
Not only do I have Little... I also have Josh Gordon. :bag: Very, VERY deep league though.
Also stashing away Gordon, as once he figures out game speed, I think he's going to be the lead WR at some point later in the season - not unlike Little managed to do last year.As mentioned, the only question is whether that means much if the Browns' passing offense doesn't get any better.

 
As a Browns fan I've never posted in any Greg Little thread because I don't trust him and its the obvious reason, drops.

The guy is an NFL wide receiver and you cannot trust him to catch the ball but the maddening thing is when he catches the ball, esp in-stride, he looks AWESOME.

Yesterday he not only dropped a ball inside the five but he BATTED IT UP IN THE AIR for an easy interception.

BALL GAME.

How can any quarterback, especially a rookie who is trying to develop chemistry with his WRs trust a steaming pile of maddening inconsistency like Greg Little?

Hype train?

More like 'wipe-stain' of this steaming pile off your shoe as you side-step him to Josh Gordon who has the goods and will turn into a legit #1 WR by the time this season is in the books.

Don't get fooled by the flashes of G-Little because he will have some AWESOME looking plays but he is the sum of his weakest link and that is you cannot trust him to catch the ball.

 
He was as bad as the stat line indicated, wasn't just his QB, who was equally as bad. Heckert hopes this was just a really nasty blip on the radar because more of this and he's gone.

Too early, but initially glad I went for Cobb late instead of Little. Upside was intriguing, but face plant potential all too real.

 
He was as bad as the stat line indicated, wasn't just his QB, who was equally as bad. Heckert hopes this was just a really nasty blip on the radar because more of this and he's gone.Too early, but initially glad I went for Cobb late instead of Little. Upside was intriguing, but face plant potential all too real.
i dropped him to stream the bengals defense next week
 
figured i should show up to take my lumps. that was an ugly game, and little will not even approach the numbers i predicted for him. luckily i got him in the 9th and 10th rounds and didnt have to pay a premium, but i can't imagine starting him at any point this year.

 
I know nobody cares about my team, but I've been offered Austin Collie for him and I'm pulling the trigger. Even if Collie never plays again, I'll still feel good about it.

 
Drops put Greg Little’s role with Browns in jeopardy

Posted by Josh Alper on September 24, 2012, 3:26 PM EDT

Browns wide receiver Greg Little had the second most drops in the NFL last season and he’s picking up right where he left off.

Little dropped his second pass in three games on third down to kill a drive on Sunday and had a second ball go through his hands. It doesn’t go down as a drop only because Josh Gordon was able to catch it before it hit the turf. Browns coach Pat Shurmur said Monday that Little’s going to have to start catching the ball if he wants to keep his job.

“We can’t play a guy that’s going to drop footballs,” Shurmur said, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Shurmur said good things about Little’s work ethic, but said that there could be a change if Little continues to struggle with catching the ball. And it probably wouldn’t hurt if Little stopped doing his Usain Bolt impression after catches like a 17-yarder that got wiped out by a penalty on center Alex Mack on Sunday.

“I can’t speak for everyone else, but I’ve had my conversations with him about that. That can be said. Now whether people see me ranting and raving on the sideline at a player – trust me, I have my conversations with him,” Shurmur said.

Any changes to the Browns receiving corps are complicated by the fact that Mohamed Massaquoi injured his hamstring on Sunday. With just a few days before they have to return to the field against Baltimore, it’s a safe bet that Little will get at least one more chance in his current role.
 
Ugh, I drafted this guy last year and just about hit my tolerance limit with waiting on him to produce. I understand the QB situation is awful but i'm not sure what upside i'm waiting for.

The next thing worth a damn to pick up off the WW this guy is getting dropped for. I hate dropping players I drafted but I think I need to move on from him. He's taking up a bench spot.

 

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