Has the cure become worse than the disease? (4 Viewers)

[Kal El]

And all that math is without the added common sense measures we could we doing and will be embracing going forward. Like I said, this requires more than simply riding it out and accepting losses. But blanket shut down of society is not the appropriate response for a sustained period if it leads to different death and suffering.

That's a colossal "if" in that last statement. I have yet to hear of anyone starving to death yet, in fact, apparently many are gaining weight in quarantine. Yes, service and entertainment industries have taken a massive hit, which is unfortunate, however those industries, especially the latter, are luxuries. Things we can live without, while life goes on.

Now, this isn't going to go on forever, and most of those jobs will return at some point in the future. But to continuously harp on "but the economy!" when people are still dying at distressing rates shows a callousness that I want no part of. The economy can wait. People's lives cannot. I don't know why I have to keep repeating this point, but I will for as long as I have to, until people finally understand.

 

[Death Bytes]

And all that math is without the added common sense measures we could we doing and will be embracing going forward. Like I said, this requires more than simply riding it out and accepting losses. But blanket shut down of society is not the appropriate response for a sustained period if it leads to different death and suffering.

What blanket shut down of society? The majority of jobs in this country have been deemed essential, and some states haven't even shut down anything at all.

Your continued use of hyperbole to argue your case shows me that you're not even level headed on the facts. 

 

[GoBirds]

I think the greatest country in the world should be able to figure it out, like other countries have.

We need more testing. And it's not up to 50 individual states to do it. We need a clear, national plan.

How are you going to force people to get tested?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

What blanket shut down of society? The majority of jobs in this country have been deemed essential, and some states haven't even shut down anything at all.

You're continued use of hyperbole to argue your case shows me that you're not even level headed on the facts. 

95% of the country is under some sort of stay at home. Of which a very large number cannot WFH. A vast majority of Americans carry less than $500 in their bank accounts. I'm sorry you can't comprehend how dramatically this is affecting millions of people. Then again I'm not surprised. The people in those living circumstances don't typically spend a lot of time on hobby message forums. 

 

[Amused to Death]

I think the greatest country in the world should be able to figure it out, like other countries have.

We need more testing. And it's not up to 50 individual states to do it. We need a clear, national plan.

How are you going to force people to get tested?

No one said anything about force. So far we've tested less than 1.5% of the population (I heard what, 4 million have been tested?). More testing. Pretty sure the medical community is united in that.

 

[KarmaPolice]

How are you going to force people to get tested?

Get tested before being able to go back to work? 

 

[GoBirds]

No one said anything about force. So far we've tested less than 1.5% of the population (I heard what, 4 million have been tested?). More testing. Pretty sure the medical community is united in that.

Our country can barely get more than half the population off the couch to vote for President, how many do you anticipate voluntarily heading to the hospital for a swab up the nose and down the throat? Not to mention the asymptomatic carriers, how many of the "it's just allergies" guys or the don't give an F people 47.7% that don't even make the effort to vote ? More tests sounds great, not coming close to fixing this though. 

 

[Mister CIA]

It is an absurd price to pay.  Let's say you had tens of millions of dollars and could guarantee several hundreds of your friends and family could have jobs and make a decent living.  Would you give that all up if you were in your late 70's with cancer and only had a few years to live at best?  

I was wondering why this thread exploded, jon_dethSkwad.

 

[GoBirds]

Get tested before being able to go back to work? 

Can we do that legally? 

 

[Kal El]

95% of the country is under some sort of stay at home. Of which a very large number cannot WFH. A vast majority of Americans carry less than $500 in their bank accounts. I'm sorry you can't comprehend how dramatically this is affecting millions of people. Then again I'm not surprised. The people in those living circumstances don't typically spend a lot of time on hobby message forums. 

So let's open the country back up without a vaccine or herd immunity in place(which if we do so within the next month absolutely will be the case), exposing them and their loved ones to unnecessary risk of infection/ transmission so now in addition to living check to check, they miss work, putting them firmly in that debt hole, all for the sake of reopening the economy.

 

[Mister CIA]

How are you going to force people to get tested?

Who here among us is opposed to testing, strawman?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Well, states are opening back up without the elaborate testing many in this thread are mandating. 
 

we’ll see how it goes. 

What do you mean "opening back up"?  What exactly are you talking about that's happening?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

So let's open the country back up without a vaccine or herd immunity in place(which if we do so within the next month absolutely will be the case), exposing them and their loved ones to unnecessary risk of infection/ transmission so now in addition to living check to check, they miss work, putting them firmly in that debt hole, all for the sake of reopening the economy.

Good strawman because absolutely no one is saying that. Keep ignoring the common sense measures and living on the extremes.

 

[Amused to Death]

Can we do that legally? 

Private companies probably. How many test for drugs?

 

[sho nuff]

The study I mentioned earlier about risks of coming out and how it could affect us even more than the current shut down.

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/policy-for-the-covid-19-crisis/

 

[GoBirds]

Why can't we do both?  Why does everything always have to be one or the other.  Seems to me we can follow these phases with the Feds help and allow those that are able to continue distancing.  Maybe I don't know the phase plan we'll enough but thought it had to do with easing back in.

I can easily keep distancing.  Just need my boss to approve telework for a year+ which is 100% feasable and has been successful.  Arguable more productive.  I know I'm just one of millions able to do this too.  And that's all I need for my family to play a part in cure.  

You are exactly right. It's obvious opening things back up doesn't mean we go back to the way things were before, there are many precautions we can all take. Ranting about testing is a waste of time unless there is a plan on how to test everyone. This free country we all love isn't very conducive to forcing people to do things like this. We hit the pause button to regroup, in the coming weeks it's time to start thinking about how each of us is going to adapt to the new normal and move forward. 

 

[Daywalker]

You are exactly right. It's obvious opening things back up doesn't mean we go back to the way things were before, there are many precautions we can all take. Ranting about testing is a waste of time unless there is a plan on how to test everyone. This free country we all love isn't very conducive to forcing people to do things like this. We hit the pause button to regroup, in the coming weeks it's time to start thinking about how each of us is going to adapt to the new normal and move forward. 

What are you trying to say here?

 

[GoBirds]

Who here among us is opposed to testing, strawman?

You may not understand this country very well, apologies you may be one of the ranters that lives in Europe?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

And we're not even discussing the growing number of people throwing caution to the wind in defiance of the current stay at home and social distancing measures. Another fatal flaw in simple blanket controls. If these people are going to start treating this like it's no big deal than we better start coming up with some better plans.

 

[GoBirds]

What are you trying to say here?

What part are you struggling with?

 

[huthut]

We can discuss this all we want, but ultimately we are going to get a live viewing of what happens. Was Florida relaxing restrictions good or bad, or rural areas having less strict shelter in place rules good or bad? We just need to wait a month and we will find out. There are going to be full chapters of textbooks going over this, especially with different country/state responses vs outcome to give direction for future pandemics. 

 

[Mr Anonymous]

The study I mentioned earlier about risks of coming out and how it could affect us even more than the current shut down.

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/policy-for-the-covid-19-crisis/

Is this like the study that predicted 2 million deaths? In other words, is "coming out" a free for all without any safety measures? If so, this study is about as worthwhile as the first.

 

[Mister CIA]

You may not understand this country very well, apologies you may be one of the ranters that lives in Europe?

Not today, you moderatly bright person.

 

[GoBirds]

Private companies probably. How many test for drugs?

What time frame do you anticipate to coordinate this with all private companies and how can you force them all to enact it? Then what for public companies? Then what for the unemployed? Living in a free country is a beautiful thing, forcing our population to take this test though isn't realistic. As this is already widespread, if you aren't testing everyone what is the impact? 

 

[zoonation]

For one, 60K from the flu is not over an entire year, it's over a 5-6 month season. We might not be all that far away from 60K over a similar amount of time when this is all measured in the end. But yes the 40K over the last 6 weeks is an inescapable truth. Thus why this requires more measures than simply riding it out. The point stands that we write off death in far greater numbers than this all the time.

Also, welcome back @Ranethe and thank you for the continued support. Your making my community reputation numbers look outstanding!

If we did not take the drastic measures we did, the global death toll would be exponentially higher than the flu.  

It’s not a good comparison.  We’ve never seen anything like this.  

 

[Amused to Death]

What time frame do you anticipate to coordinate this with all private companies and how can you force them all to enact it? Then what for public companies? Then what for the unemployed? Living in a free country is a beautiful thing, forcing our population to take this test though isn't realistic. As this is already widespread, if you aren't testing everyone what is the impact? 

Your argument is with the scientific community, not me. I'm not chasing down this strawman argument.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

If we did not take the drastic measures we did, the global death toll would be exponentially higher than the flu.  

It’s not a good comparison.  We’ve never seen anything like this.  

That's why I never made it a comparison. It was perspective. Something greatly lacking in this crisis.

 

[GoBirds]

Your argument is with the scientific community, not me. I'm not chasing down this strawman argument.

I'm asking you to explain your plan since you want to stay shutdown and claiming people against that are responsible for death. I've laid out the issues I see with what you want to wait for and am open to you explaining how that's going to work. If you can't explain how it's going to work then we should all focus on how we are going to adapt than rant about a pie in the sky scenario that won't happen. That's just my opinion. 

 

[Daywalker]

What part are you struggling with?

Ranting about testing is a waste of time unless we have a solution?

 

[Daywalker]

Testing is a waste of time because people won't listen?  Burn it all down I guess.  

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

And we're not even discussing the growing number of people throwing caution to the wind in defiance of the current stay at home and social distancing measures. Another fatal flaw in simple blanket controls. If these people are going to start treating this like it's no big deal than we better start coming up with some better plans.

Fines, repeated if necessary.  Followed by arrests for failure to appear.  Not that complicated.

Rule of Law.  Equal Justice.  No One's Above the Law.

Many people are saying it's time COVID provides an opportunity to get back to the basics.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Ranting about testing is a waste of time unless we have a solution?

I wouldn't call it a waste of time but it sure has become one side's new talking point. It seems like years ago that the goalpost rested at the intersection of hospital capacity and a flattened curve. I can't wait to see what the new standard will be once Abbott Labs has their test kits delivered in mass.

 

[GoBirds]

Ranting about testing is a waste of time unless we have a solution?

How are you going to force people for get tested, break it down for us? If you want things to stay closed for this testing you want then explain how it will work....simple question. 

 

[Daywalker]

I wouldn't call it a waste of time but it sure has become one side's new talking point. It seems like years ago that the goalpost rested at the intersection of hospital capacity and a flattened curve. I can't wait to see what the new standard will be once Abbott Labs has their test kits delivered in mass.

Everyone assumed the government would come up with a Manhattan Project in order to make cotton swabs.  Guess they were wrong.

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm asking you to explain your plan since you want to stay shutdown and claiming people against that are responsible for death. I've laid out the issues I see with what you want to wait for and am open to you explaining how that's going to work. If you can't explain how it's going to work then we should all focus on how we are going to adapt than rant about a pie in the sky scenario that won't happen. That's just my opinion. 

I do not need a plan. I'm putting my faith in the greatest country in the world to have something better than "let the old people die".

 

[Daywalker]

How are you going to force people for get tested, break it down for us? If you want things to stay closed for this testing you want then explain how it will work....simple question. 

So you are saying testing is impossible?

 

[Daywalker]

1.  Everyone wants to get tested.

2.  You will need a note to go back to work.  Maybe one each month.  Employees are required to provide doctor notes all the time before they can come back to work.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

So you are saying testing is impossible?

Most jobs these days test for drugs. How hard could it be?

 

[GoBirds]

So you are saying testing is impossible?

Testing is great and I hope it improves, if you can lay out for me how sheltering in place for more tests is going to fix everything I’m still waiting to hear it. 

 

[John Blutarsky]

Most jobs these days test for drugs. How hard could it be?

Are you serious?

 

[Kal El]

Good strawman because absolutely no one is saying that. Keep ignoring the common sense measures and living on the extremes.

Then I must be imagining things, because I've seen several people in this very thread state they expect things opening within the next month. Look, if you want to ignore facts and history, that's your choice. I won't do that. We've already seen people flock to Florida beaches, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that if anyone there was sick, there will be a lot of people sick in about 2 weeks.

 

[GoBirds]

Are you serious?

You don’t think a couple guys named Daywalker and Leroy Hoard can get the whole country on board with taking the test?
 

Communist China can’t do this but they got it. 

 

[Amused to Death]

How are you going to force people for get tested, break it down for us? If you want things to stay closed for this testing you want then explain how it will work....simple question. 

The US economy can't reopen without widespread coronavirus testing. Getting there will take a lot of work and money

Health experts also say the country needs a related and equally robust program to trace the people who have had contact with infected people, to avoid seeing those contacts themselves spread the coronavirus to others.

There are only about 120,000 samples or so being tested each day for the coronavirus in the United States, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Experts say that millions of people will have to be tested each day, even as many as 20 million to 30 million people, before the nation can return to a semblance of economic normality.

 

[Daywalker]

You want to go where?  The moon?  When, in 2020?    

 

[Man In The Box]

If people really want to get back to work and would be unwilling to be “forced” to get tested, then I don’t know what to tell you. Hope you like being home I guess. 

 

[Daywalker]

You don’t think a couple guys named Daywalker and Leroy Hoard can get the whole country on board with taking the test?
 

Communist China can’t do this but they got it. 

So your rebuttal is people won't listen?

 

[Amused to Death]

How are you going to force people for get tested, break it down for us? If you want things to stay closed for this testing you want then explain how it will work....simple question. 

The US economy can't reopen without widespread coronavirus testing. Getting there will take a lot of work and money

Health experts also say the country needs a related and equally robust program to trace the people who have had contact with infected people, to avoid seeing those contacts themselves spread the coronavirus to others.

There are only about 120,000 samples or so being tested each day for the coronavirus in the United States, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Experts say that millions of people will have to be tested each day, even as many as 20 million to 30 million people, before the nation can return to a semblance of economic normality

"To avoid a second wave of viral spread you have to do what South Korea and other countries, including Germany, have done. You have to have testing in place, and aggressive testing," said Dr. Tom Moore, an infectious disease specialist in Wichita, Kansas.

"We don't have to test everybody, but we definitely need to test a significant portion of the community," said Moore, a former board member of the Infectious Diseases Society of America.

 

[GoBirds]

"To avoid a second wave of viral spread you have to do what South Korea and other countries, including Germany, have done. You have to have testing in place, and aggressive testing," said Dr. Tom Moore, an infectious disease specialist in Wichita, Kansas.

"We don't have to test everybody, but we definitely need to test a significant portion of the community," said Moore, a former board member of the Infectious Diseases Society of America.

Cool, I get what doctors want to happen and have seen it all. If you realistically have a plan to enforce it that’s what I’m interested in. I think we can agree that if we aren’t testing close to everyone the spread won’t stop?

 

[Amused to Death]

Cool, I get what doctors want to happen and have seen it all. If you realistically have a plan to enforce it that’s what I’m interested in. I think we can agree that if we aren’t testing close to everyone the spread won’t stop?

You enforce it by fining people and organizations who don't abide. I would think the greatest country on Earth can match what others have done.

We're being drastically outperformed.

 

[GoBirds]

You enforce it by fining people and organizations who don't abide. I would think the greatest country on Earth can match what others have done.

We're being drastically outperformed.

If you are going to put responsibility or deaths on people as you did on page 1 it seems you would have a more detailed plan is all. I’m not sure what you are mentioning is even legal? We all want more testing, as it’s a main talking point in here I was just curious if there was any plan of realistic execution if you want everything shuttered for the time being. I think I got my answer, have a good one.