HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

[sn0mm1s]

At first I thought I was misremembering since it's been since July when I read Clash of Kings, but they seem to be inventing a lot and taking away a lot. There is almost no tension between Seaworth/Stannis/Mellissandre at all. Granted that tension did not amount to much plot action but it made the relationships much more interesting. I'm not getting any nervousness/distrust from Seaworth at all.

And was Bronn immediately named captain of the gold cloaks?

I'm not sure he ever was.

Spoiler

He wasn't - but in this case I don't have a problem with the decision. In the books Jacelyn Bywater is made captain and Allar Deem killed the infant. However, instead of introducing 2 new minor characters they just merged Bronn and Bywater into one guy and Deem and Slynt into one guy.

Spoiler

But didn't Deem do it under Slynt's command?

Yes.

 

[Gr00vus]

Anyone else bother by the CGI wolves? Kinda twilight-ish.

What else can they do? Besides, there was so much other stuff off with this episode, how the wolf looked is way down the list. I wonder how much of that Martin signed off on.

So what are your thoughts?

There are so many departures from the text I'm getting a sense things are really going to diverge at the detail level going forward. I'm sure the main events will all be covered, but some of the smaller whos and whys aren't going to be the same. So I'm trying to get into that mindset - the show is becoming its own thing, maintaining the flavor of the books but taking its own path. I don't want to embark on a litany of what was off, unless/until the show starts to falter on its own merits. I think it did falter a bit in this episode, but I want to wait to see how it plays out longer term before I start criticizing.One thing I will find fault with here and now - they needed to find a more attractive/sexier Theon's sister. The casting there is already a huge whiff, even if she's a great technical actress.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Anyone else bother by the CGI wolves? Kinda twilight-ish.

What else can they do? Besides, there was so much other stuff off with this episode, how the wolf looked is way down the list. I wonder how much of that Martin signed off on.

So what are your thoughts?

There are so many departures from the text I'm getting a sense things are really going to diverge at the detail level going forward. I'm sure the main events will all be covered, but some of the smaller whos and whys aren't going to be the same. So I'm trying to get into that mindset - the show is becoming its own thing, maintaining the flavor of the books but taking its own path. I don't want to embark on a litany of what was off, unless/until the show starts to falter on its own merits. I think it did falter a bit in this episode, but I want to wait to see how it plays out longer term before I start criticizing.One thing I will find fault with here and now - they needed to find a more attractive/sexier Theon's sister. The casting there is already a huge whiff, even if she's a great technical actress.

It gave it a certain realness to me having her like that...JMO anyway

 

[Socrates11]

Anyone else bother by the CGI wolves? Kinda twilight-ish.

What else can they do? Besides, there was so much other stuff off with this episode, how the wolf looked is way down the list. I wonder how much of that Martin signed off on.

So what are your thoughts?

There are so many departures from the text I'm getting a sense things are really going to diverge at the detail level going forward. I'm sure the main events will all be covered, but some of the smaller whos and whys aren't going to be the same. So I'm trying to get into that mindset - the show is becoming its own thing, maintaining the flavor of the books but taking its own path. I don't want to embark on a litany of what was off, unless/until the show starts to falter on its own merits. I think it did falter a bit in this episode, but I want to wait to see how it plays out longer term before I start criticizing.One thing I will find fault with here and now - they needed to find a more attractive/sexier Theon's sister. The casting there is already a huge whiff, even if she's a great technical actress.

It gave it a certain realness to me having her like that...JMO anyway

Seriously, she's a tomboy who grew up on a harsh island, drinks and fights and ####s like a guy, and captains her own ship. Oh but they should have cast Blake Lively

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Was Gendry re-cast?

 

[Gr00vus]

One thing I will find fault with here and now - they needed to find a more attractive/sexier Theon's sister. The casting there is already a huge whiff, even if she's a great technical actress.

It gave it a certain realness to me having her like that...JMO anyway

Totally valid opinion too. My take from the books was, apart from a prominent hook nose, Theon's sister is a pretty hot tamale. The chick in this episode - not a hot tamale, not even a warm tamale IMO. It's probably just an interpretation thing on my end, but that was a glitch to me.

 

[dutch]

One thing I will find fault with here and now - they needed to find a more attractive/sexier Theon's sister. The casting there is already a huge whiff, even if she's a great technical actress.

I though the choice was great. As was already stated, Yara looks good in leather And she fits the bill of a warrior princess who is a leader of men during a time when men are generally pigs towards women(see Theon as proof).

 

[The Gator]

Was Gendry re-cast?

don't think so

 

[Gr00vus]

Anyone else bother by the CGI wolves? Kinda twilight-ish.

What else can they do? Besides, there was so much other stuff off with this episode, how the wolf looked is way down the list. I wonder how much of that Martin signed off on.

So what are your thoughts?

There are so many departures from the text I'm getting a sense things are really going to diverge at the detail level going forward. I'm sure the main events will all be covered, but some of the smaller whos and whys aren't going to be the same. So I'm trying to get into that mindset - the show is becoming its own thing, maintaining the flavor of the books but taking its own path. I don't want to embark on a litany of what was off, unless/until the show starts to falter on its own merits. I think it did falter a bit in this episode, but I want to wait to see how it plays out longer term before I start criticizing.One thing I will find fault with here and now - they needed to find a more attractive/sexier Theon's sister. The casting there is already a huge whiff, even if she's a great technical actress.

It gave it a certain realness to me having her like that...JMO anyway

Seriously, she's a tomboy who grew up on a harsh island, drinks and fights and ####s like a guy, and captains her own ship.

What does any of that have to do with how she looks?

 

[EYLive]

At first I thought I was misremembering since it's been since July when I read Clash of Kings, but they seem to be inventing a lot and taking away a lot. There is almost no tension between Seaworth/Stannis/Mellissandre at all. Granted that tension did not amount to much plot action but it made the relationships much more interesting. I'm not getting any nervousness/distrust from Seaworth at all.And was Bronn immediately named captain of the gold cloaks?

Spoiler

The Janos Slynt scene was slightly different in the books. He had been promised a lordship (Harrenhal)for his betrayal, and he had given Tyrion a list of men whom he recommended to replace him as head of the Goldcloaks. Tyrion gets him drunk, then informs him that he and his list of men are all going to the wall, and he named Jacelyn Bywater the new head of the City Watch. Bronn was never captain of the city watch in the books - always just a personal guard for Tyrion (until Cercei bribed him).One other minor discrepancy I recalled was that, at Pyke, I think Theon was met by his super religious uncle at the dock - Aeron? I don't think he runs into Asha until a few days later.Also, I don't think Arya revealed her identity to Gendry until much later in the trip north.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm ok with keeping the number of characters down and compacting various roles as long as the story isn't compromised.I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

I'm just wondering if they can end every episode this season by killing a baby.

 

[Gr00vus]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

No. In some of the season trailers there is a drowned god cermoney being performed by a priest, but the writers said that was not Aeron, but a generalized Damphair.

 

[Marvin]

I'm just wondering if they can end every episode this season by killing a baby.

I don't think the baby at the end of this episode died. I think it's going to be adopted by a Wind Walker or whatever.

 

[Major]

Lots of whining from all the book . It's been a great start to season 2. Lots of secks never hurt a FBG. Stop complaining. TIA

 

[Clifford]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

There was a dock worker he paid for a horse in the book, so thinking it is not Damphair.What sucks about skipping over all this stuff is that there is no real setup of the personalities. My wife did not get why the Iron Born were being mean to Theon. Because they skipped over all the bg about what makes them so hard: the Iron price, salt-wives, the drowned god ritual, etc etc.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

There was a dock worker he paid for a horse in the book, so thinking it is not Damphair.What sucks about skipping over all this stuff is that there is no real setup of the personalities. My wife did not get why the Iron Born were being mean to Theon. Because they skipped over all the bg about what makes them so hard: the Iron price, salt-wives, the drowned god ritual, etc etc.

Theon talked about saltwives when he was banging that girl, and Balon went into the Iron Price. We will get to the drowned god stuff next week I think.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

There was a dock worker he paid for a horse in the book, so thinking it is not Damphair.What sucks about skipping over all this stuff is that there is no real setup of the personalities. My wife did not get why the Iron Born were being mean to Theon. Because they skipped over all the bg about what makes them so hard: the Iron price, salt-wives, the drowned god ritual, etc etc.

In the book he brought his own horse. The iron price and salt wives are mentioned - the drowned god stuff we don't see until later.

 

[Clifford]

They're mentioned in passing, maybe 1:30 total in a one hour episode. In the book they take up a couple of chapters before Theon even arrives at Pyke.

They're de-emphasized and thus lose their power. The book went into the history of the Iron Islands, the looting, pillaging, etc. The book made them seem the equivalent of the Dothraki in terms of cruelty and brutality.

Compare, for instance, Theon's description of their execution techniques to the wildling girl in season 1 v these descriptions in season 2.

 

[chet]

Who is Stannis' brother they referred to last night? Obviously someone other than Robert.

 

[Clifford]

Renly, he was on Robert's council in season 1.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think the books need to be used as augmentation for the show. The show is not going to be 100% loyal to the books and certainly no where near as detailed as GRRM.

We should refrain from having such high expectations of consistency and nitpicking everything. We should be more concerned with the overall stories. If something is changed or eliminated that is a significant departure in the overall story then I will be complaining, but I am thinking we might be too harsh right now. Some liberties need to be taken to get certain points across I think and so long as the nature of the characters and the storylines remain the same they are OK.

 

[shadyridr]

Who is Stannis' brother they referred to last night? Obviously someone other than Robert.

the gay brother

 

[shadyridr]

How did Theon become an unofficial member of the Stark family? Did they win him in battle or something?

 

[Marvin]

I haven't read one single sentence of the book and don't really have a problem following any of the story lines. This is a pretty well-crafted show.

 

[Clifford]

True, it just hit me that when my wife asked why Theon received such a harsh reception, it was something I did not wonder about from reading the book.

Good call about his horse, comes into play later.

Thoughts on what we might see this season:

Spoiler

Given how fast they have accelerated this season, I think we could easily see both the fall of Winterfell and the fall of the first city (Mereen?) over in the free cities. Heck, we could get to the Red Wedding by season's end, maybe further. Will be interesting to see how many books they can cover.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

How did Theon become an unofficial member of the Stark family? Did they win him in battle or something?

Theon's dad had rebelled against Robert when Theon was a kid. After Robert won, Theon was taken by Ned as a "ward" (read: hostage) to ensure Balon's loyalty.

 

[Clifford]

How did Theon become an unofficial member of the Stark family? Did they win him in battle or something?

Another glossed over part: His father, Balon Greyjoy, rebelled against Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon, attempting to regain the independence of the Iron Islands as a separate kingdom. Greyjoy is still stinging from his defeat, which is why Theon is received so coldly, and why Robb Stark never had a chance of gaining the alliance.This is mentioned briefly by Tyrion upon his first departure from Winterfell.

 

[Gr00vus]

Lots of whining from all the book . It's been a great start to season 2. Lots of secks never hurt a FBG. Stop complaining. TIA

As a book , I don't have a problem with sex scenes per se - but I do have a problem with devoting time to sex scenes for the sake of sex scenes when there's only so much time to tell the story. Adding sex scenes that weren't in the book means there's less time to include stuff that was actually in the book - and they're going to have to omit a ton of stuff already due to the short time constraints. So far, they've used the sex scenes to provide some eye candy while they're doing some character/plot/backstory exposition - so it hasn't really been a problem. I think there were a couple last night that may have been stretching it a bit, particularly the brothel scene.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

True, it just hit me that when my wife asked why Theon received such a harsh reception, it was something I did not wonder about from reading the book.Good call about his horse, comes into play later.Thoughts on what we might see this season:

Spoiler

Given how fast they have accelerated this season, I think we could easily see both the fall of Winterfell and the fall of the first city (Mereen?) over in the free cities. Heck, we could get to the Red Wedding by season's end, maybe further. Will be interesting to see how many books they can cover.

Disagree.

Spoiler

Winterfell, is the most likely. I think we end the season thinking Bran is dead perhaps. However, there is no casting for Reek/Ramsay Bolton as far as I know, so that seems unlikely to me as well.Dany will get to Quarth and we will see the house of the undying. No Slaver's Bay this season. Definately no Red Wedding. That might not be until Season 4, as Storm of Swords is being split into 2 seasons.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

There was a dock worker he paid for a horse in the book, so thinking it is not Damphair.What sucks about skipping over all this stuff is that there is no real setup of the personalities. My wife did not get why the Iron Born were being mean to Theon. Because they skipped over all the bg about what makes them so hard: the Iron price, salt-wives, the drowned god ritual, etc etc.

they flat out told you why they were being "mean" to Theon: In their eyes he is more Ned Stark's kid than Balon Greyjoy's at this point. They hammered that point home in a 2 minute scene moreso than the book did over pages and pages imo.That is all the explanation the viewer needs to set the stage for what is to come.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I haven't read one single sentence of the book and don't really have a problem following any of the story lines. This is a pretty well-crafted show.

Yeah, several of my family members are the same. They are loving the show and have asked me a few questions but are able to follow the story lines. I have the audiobooks and I have listened to them several times over the years while working. Unfortunately, that means I know what is going to be said *and* have specific expectations as to *how* something should be said. I have found that it is difficult to separate watching the show for what it is (a great adaptation so far) and what I think it should be (more as a critic).

 

[jdoggydogg]

I haven't read one single sentence of the book and don't really have a problem following any of the story lines. This is a pretty well-crafted show.

Yeah, several of my family members are the same. They are loving the show and have asked me a few questions but are able to follow the story lines. I have the audiobooks and I have listened to them several times over the years while working. Unfortunately, that means I know what is going to be said *and* have specific expectations as to *how* something should be said. I have found that it is difficult to separate watching the show for what it is (a great adaptation so far) and what I think it should be (more as a critic).

I definitely understood things better watching the series a second time. But yeah, haven't read a page of the books and it's all pretty clear.

 

[Clifford]

Lots of whining from all the book . It's been a great start to season 2. Lots of secks never hurt a FBG. Stop complaining. TIA

As a book , I don't have a problem with sex scenes per se - but I do have a problem with devoting time to sex scenes for the sake of sex scenes when there's only so much time to tell the story. Adding sex scenes that weren't in the book means there's less time to include stuff that was actually in the book - and they're going to have to omit a ton of stuff already due to the short time constraints. So far, they've used the sex scenes to provide some eye candy while they're doing some character/plot/backstory exposition - so it hasn't really been a problem. I think there were a couple last night that may have been stretching it a bit, particularly the brothel scene.

Yeah, they could have let that go as we already know from season 1 that Littlefinger is a total *******.

 

[Clifford]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

There was a dock worker he paid for a horse in the book, so thinking it is not Damphair.What sucks about skipping over all this stuff is that there is no real setup of the personalities. My wife did not get why the Iron Born were being mean to Theon. Because they skipped over all the bg about what makes them so hard: the Iron price, salt-wives, the drowned god ritual, etc etc.

they flat out told you why they were being "mean" to Theon: In their eyes he is more Ned Stark's kid than Balon Greyjoy's at this point. They hammered that point home in a 2 minute scene moreso than the book did over pages and pages imo.That is all the explanation the viewer needs to set the stage for what is to come.

What she didn't understand was that it was not Theon's doing: he was essentially given to Stark at the age of 8 or 9 and she did not get why they would not be happy to see him again. So though it was "explained" I don't think it was set up as well. The setup BG on who the Ironborn are makes the explanation needless.

 

[The Gator]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

There was a dock worker he paid for a horse in the book, so thinking it is not Damphair.What sucks about skipping over all this stuff is that there is no real setup of the personalities. My wife did not get why the Iron Born were being mean to Theon. Because they skipped over all the bg about what makes them so hard: the Iron price, salt-wives, the drowned god ritual, etc etc.

they flat out told you why they were being "mean" to Theon: In their eyes he is more Ned Stark's kid than Balon Greyjoy's at this point. They hammered that point home in a 2 minute scene moreso than the book did over pages and pages imo.That is all the explanation the viewer needs to set the stage for what is to come.

What she didn't understand was that it was not Theon's doing: he was essentially given to Stark at the age of 8 or 9 and she did not get why they would not be happy to see him again. So though it was "explained" I don't think it was set up as well. The setup BG on who the Ironborn are makes the explanation needless.

Didn't Lady Stark mention that in the previous episode?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I have not read the books and love the show so far.

However I am a heavy comic book guy and hate it when movies deviate from comics, but I have grown to accept it, I understand your guys frustrations, but cramming a 1K plus page book into 10 hours is nearly impossible.

 

[SeveredHorseHeads]

I thought they made the reasons for Balon's criticism of Theon abundantly clear.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I have not read the books and love the show so far.

However I am a heavy comic book guy and hate it when movies deviate from comics, but I have grown to accept it, I understand your guys frustrations, but cramming a 1K plus page book into 10 hours is nearly impossible.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Didn't Lady Stark mention that in the previous episode?

Off the top of my head it is mentioned in at least 3 other episodes.Lady Stark mentions it last episode.Tyrion mentions it when he returns to Winterfell from visiting on The Wall.Maester Luwin (the old guy that advises Bran) mentions "failed rebellions" when Theon is touting all the things he is good at doing. He also alludes to it when Theon cornered Asha (the Wildling). Theon says something regarding the treatment of prisoners at Winterfell when Maester Luwin interrupts and asks if that is based on Theon's experience.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

I missed the salt wives conversation. Can anyone give some bg on that, the drowned gods, etc.?

 

[Clifford]

She knew Theon was a Ward/Hostage. She didn't get the cool reception, and that's where the BG on who the Ironborn are would have been helpful.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

She knew Theon was a Ward/Hostage. She didn't get the cool reception, and that's where the BG on who the Ironborn are would have been helpful.

What was there to get? I don't think anything in the book made you think his reception was going to be so cool really. It was once he was there and ignored etc. that you realized it was this way.In the show, it was obvious from the start that nobody cared who he thought he was once he was at Pyke. His dad's first words were something to the effect that his worst fears were true, he was more stark than greyjoy etc.

 

[Clifford]

There was time spent setting up the Ironborn as those who were a brutal, cruel people who felt that only brute strength made one legitimate. It painted them as the Westerosi equivalent of the Dothraki. Thus, one kind of knew that a treaty would not be acceptable.

Anyway, we've wasted too much time on a minor gripe.

 

[EYLive]

How did Theon become an unofficial member of the Stark family? Did they win him in battle or something?

The Greyjoy's rebelled against the kingdom, Ned Stark smashed the rebellion and took Balon Greyjoy's son as hostage/ward.

 

[shuke]

I was under the impression that the old man that Theon gave the coins to on the dock was Damphair.

I was thinking that was a possibility too. I guess we could look at the credits/casting if we really wanted to know now. I'm too lazy to do so.

There was a dock worker he paid for a horse in the book, so thinking it is not Damphair.What sucks about skipping over all this stuff is that there is no real setup of the personalities. My wife did not get why the Iron Born were being mean to Theon. Because they skipped over all the bg about what makes them so hard: the Iron price, salt-wives, the drowned god ritual, etc etc.

Both the iron price and salt wives were discussed in this episode.

 

[thecatch]

Nitpicking: I thought the priestess should be hotter (she's basically described as a Christina hendricks bombshell in the book), and I must have missed the book's allusions to stannis' affair. Having not picked up on that, it seemed awfully out of character for a morally rigid guy like stannis to cheat on his wife for the mere promise of a born out of wedlock son.

I think in general the casting and the translation have been spot on, though.

 

[Ilov80s]

Nitpicking: I thought the priestess should be hotter (she's basically described as a Christina hendricks bombshell in the book), and I must have missed the book's allusions to stannis' affair. Having not picked up on that, it seemed awfully out of character for a morally rigid guy like stannis to cheat on his wife for the mere promise of a born out of wedlock son. I think in general the casting and the translation have been spot on, though.

That is definitely knitpicking. She is very hot in a perfectly sinister way- flawless body as well.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Season 3 is a go! They better finish this out.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Renewed for Season 3!

:second: