HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

[the moops]

So after this episode we have how many families fighting for the throne...1) Starks led by Rob2) Joeffrey3) Gay Baratheon4) Serious Baratheon and his witch lady and pirates5) Dani across the landIs that it?

I think that sounds about right.The show needs more Joeffrey. That dude is awesomely evil.

 

[Swing 51]

So after this episode we have how many families fighting for the throne...1) Starks led by Rob2) Joeffrey3) Gay Baratheon4) Serious Baratheon and his witch lady and pirates5) Dani across the landIs that it?

I think that sounds about right.The show needs more Joeffrey. That dude is awesomely evil.

plus Balon/Theon/Yara(Asha) Greyjoy

 

[Abrantes]

Good episode, but not as strong as last week. The biggest issue is that things just seem rushed at 10 hours per season. I had no idea Stannis had a wife and that he was trying to be honorable. I just assumed he was with the Priestess officially. I wish there was more time to develop Dragon Stone and the Renly-Tyrell situation.

No kidding. They're forced to stretch the concept of narrative economy here. Just hope the following seasons get more time.

 

[shuke]

Did that last scene happen in the book?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Did that last scene happen in the book?

Not that I recall. What craster does to his sons was alluded to a lot though iirc. What other differences were there tonight? Cersei ordered the ******* murders in the book right?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I couldn't even make out the ending of the show..,

Craster took a new born son of his into the woods as an offering to the white walkers. Jon saw him. A white walker (did you see the blue eyes and recognize them from the very first scene of the series?) came and took the baby. Jon saw this happen and Craster ,it's have doubled back and knocked Jon out.

 

[Ilov80s]

Good episode, but not as strong as last week. The biggest issue is that things just seem rushed at 10 hours per season. I had no idea Stannis had a wife and that he was trying to be honorable. I just assumed he was with the Priestess officially. I wish there was more time to develop Dragon Stone and the Renly-Tyrell situation.

No kidding. They're forced to stretch the concept of narrative economy here. Just hope the following seasons get more time.

I thought the time and pacing was perfect last season. This season just has more characters spread across more locatins...very Wiresque.

 

[TLEF316]

Last night has me a little worried.

I like a good sex scene as much as the next guy, but it seems like they're just tossing in extra ones for the hell of it. What was the point of Theon and that ugly chick on the boat? (Seriously, that might have been the worst set of boobs I've ever seen on camera)

Lets just get the story rolling.

 

[Ilov80s]

Last night has me a little worried.I like a good sex scene as much as the next guy, but it seems like they're just tossing in extra ones for the hell of it. What was the point of Theon and that ugly chick on the boat? (Seriously, that might have been the worst set of boobs I've ever seen on camera) Lets just get the story rolling.

The point was to further develop Theon as a jerk and reveal some more of the mindset/culture on Theon's homeland. Also, he makes it very clear what his belief the role of women should be which makes his dad's anointment of his sister even more crushing for Theon. It was graphic and the girl was intentionally less attractive then we are used to, but it fits in with the precedent set in season 1 of lots of early season sexposition. I thought the Littlefinger brothel double peephole scene was a much more over the top scene. I'm not sure I get that one (however, the girls were better looking)

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Last night has me a little worried.I like a good sex scene as much as the next guy, but it seems like they're just tossing in extra ones for the hell of it. What was the point of Theon and that ugly chick on the boat? (Seriously, that might have been the worst set of boobs I've ever seen on camera) Lets just get the story rolling.

That was true to the book. The Roz stuff isn't. I'm not sure what they are doing with her and littlefinger. I like hearin about him in the book and I like the actor playing him, but his/their scenes in the show are my least favorite and seem unnecessary.

 

[Mjolnirs]

What was the point of Theon and that ugly chick on the boat? (Seriously, that might have been the worst set of boobs I've ever seen on camera)

That was in the book though, and I don't remember exactly how she was described, but it wasn't flattering.

I thought the Littlefinger brothel double peephole scene was a much more over the top scene. I'm not sure I get that one

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Last night has me a little worried.I like a good sex scene as much as the next guy, but it seems like they're just tossing in extra ones for the hell of it. What was the point of Theon and that ugly chick on the boat? (Seriously, that might have been the worst set of boobs I've ever seen on camera) Lets just get the story rolling.

That was true to the book. The Roz stuff isn't. I'm not sure what they are doing with her and littlefinger. I like hearin about him in the book and I like the actor playing him, but his/their scenes in the show are my least favorite and seem unnecessary.

Technically

Spoiler

It was a BJ in the book I believe but yes, what was said was true to the book

 

[jamny]

Just an ok episode. Things are building all around so I'm sure it'll get better soon.

 

[chet]

How ####ed up is George R. R. Martin? So much brother/sister incest.

 

[Kraft...]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

I believe it's lightly implied in the books in at least one Davos chapter but the exact references escape me.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Did that last scene happen in the book?

Not that I recall. What craster does to his sons was alluded to a lot though iirc. What other differences were there tonight? Cersei ordered the ******* murders in the book right?

Spoiler

Plenty of changes - Arya doesn't reveal herself to Gendry until much later. The Jon + Craster scene did not happen in the book. Rhakaro being beheaded was not in the book. All the brothel scenes were not in the book. Stannis screwing the priestess was not in the book (although alluded to). Davos talking to his son about the red God to Salladhor Saan wasn't in the books, Cersei + Tyrion scene wasn't in the books, Bronn being made Commander of the Gold Cloaks wasn't in the books. I would say close to ~90% of the scenes in the first two episodes either weren't in the book, only hinted at, or significantly changed in some way (either dialogue, timing, or combining of characters). The story is still there but at this point they are taking a lot of liberties with it. Some of it is necessary (like combining Janos Slynt and Allar Deem into one character, Bronn and Jacelyn Bywater into one character, and the exchange with Tyrion and Varys) but a lot of it I think detracts from the story.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

Spoiler

It was never outright stated but it is implied that is how the priestess fuels some of her powers. Stannis begins spending all his time with the priestess - while he leaves his wife on Dragonstone. Also, the way Melisandre propositions Davos in one of the later books, and says she can no longer take from Stannis in the same way, implies that she wasn't just taking blood from him.

 

[shadyridr]

So that girl just let her brother stimulate her?

 

[shadyridr]

Lmao at fish pie

 

[Joseph]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

Spoiler

I don't think it was expressly shown, but there were a lot of rumors about it. I remember someone telling Davos that Stannis and the Red woman went to perform some ritual every night alone, and it was implied that they were getting it on. I'm not through book 4 yet, but I'd guess this is something along the lines of Renly being gay, something Martin intended, and wrote the books with this in mind, but never came right out and said it.

 

[Kraft...]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

Spoiler

It was never outright stated but it is implied that is how the priestess fuels some of her powers. Stannis begins spending all his time with the priestess - while he leaves his wife on Dragonstone. Also, the way Melisandre propositions Davos in one of the later books, and says she can no longer take from Stannis in the same way, implies that she wasn't just taking blood from him.

Cool, I haven't read DWD yet so maybe there is more about it in there.

 

[Kraft...]

So that girl just let her brother stimulate her?

Pretty much, in the book I believe she grabbed his package too.

 

[Socrates11]

So that girl just let her brother stimulate her?

Pretty much, in the book I believe she grabbed his package too.

IIRC, she pushed him away for the most part. Grabbing the package was just to mess with him.I think Asha definitely qualifies for the 'Oddly attracted to' thread. Not a true beauty, but there was something about her in those leathers...

 

[TeamDingo]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

Spoiler

It was never outright stated but it is implied that is how the priestess fuels some of her powers. Stannis begins spending all his time with the priestess - while he leaves his wife on Dragonstone. Also, the way Melisandre propositions Davos in one of the later books, and says she can no longer take from Stannis in the same way, implies that she wasn't just taking blood from him.

Cool, I haven't read DWD yet so maybe there is more about it in there.I would say the opposite

Spoiler

Stannis and Mel have sex in the books but it is nothing like portrayed in the episode. My opinion is that it is a tantric magic sex ritual and that Stannis is not consciously aware of what happens. In ADwD it is obliquely implied that Jon and Melisandre have sex but Jon is not aware of it in his PoVs.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

Spoiler

It was never outright stated but it is implied that is how the priestess fuels some of her powers. Stannis begins spending all his time with the priestess - while he leaves his wife on Dragonstone. Also, the way Melisandre propositions Davos in one of the later books, and says she can no longer take from Stannis in the same way, implies that she wasn't just taking blood from him.

Cool, I haven't read DWD yet so maybe there is more about it in there.I would say the opposite

Spoiler

Stannis and Mel have sex in the books but it is nothing like portrayed in the episode. My opinion is that it is a tantric magic sex ritual and that Stannis is not consciously aware of what happens. In ADwD it is obliquely implied that Jon and Melisandre have sex but Jon is not aware of it in his PoVs.

I do not get that second part at all from my readings.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

Spoiler

It was never outright stated but it is implied that is how the priestess fuels some of her powers. Stannis begins spending all his time with the priestess - while he leaves his wife on Dragonstone. Also, the way Melisandre propositions Davos in one of the later books, and says she can no longer take from Stannis in the same way, implies that she wasn't just taking blood from him.

Cool, I haven't read DWD yet so maybe there is more about it in there.I would say the opposite

Spoiler

Stannis and Mel have sex in the books but it is nothing like portrayed in the episode. My opinion is that it is a tantric magic sex ritual and that Stannis is not consciously aware of what happens. In ADwD it is obliquely implied that Jon and Melisandre have sex but Jon is not aware of it in his PoVs.

I do not get that second part at all from my readings.Yeah, neither do I.

 

[sn0mm1s]

So that girl just let her brother stimulate her?

Pretty much, in the book I believe she grabbed his package too.

IIRC, she pushed him away for the most part. Grabbing the package was just to mess with him.I think Asha definitely qualifies for the 'Oddly attracted to' thread. Not a true beauty, but there was something about her in those leathers...

In the book Theon grabbed a breast - but that was it Yara/Asha prevented anything else. Yara/Asha was leading him on to see what kind of a person he was and to learn about Robb Stark and the war. She did grab his package through his pants though to mess with him. The exchange in the book is a good one - the scene in the show really missed the mark IMO.

 

[Kraft...]

So that girl just let her brother stimulate her?

Pretty much, in the book I believe she grabbed his package too.

IIRC, she pushed him away for the most part. Grabbing the package was just to mess with him.I think Asha definitely qualifies for the 'Oddly attracted to' thread. Not a true beauty, but there was something about her in those leathers...

In the book Theon grabbed a breast - but that was it Yara/Asha prevented anything else. Yara/Asha was leading him on to see what kind of a person he was and to learn about Robb Stark and the war. She did grab his package through his pants though to mess with him. The exchange in the book is a good one - the scene in the show really missed the mark IMO.

Yeah that's right, boob only. Agree the scene missed the mark.

 

[TeamDingo]

Regarding Stannis and Melisandre in last nights episode but with some minor book reference

Spoiler

I don't remember Stannis banging Melisandre in the books, didn't she just use his blood? This is a big divergence from the books IMO, it really hurts Stannis' over the top "honorable" character

Spoiler

It was never outright stated but it is implied that is how the priestess fuels some of her powers. Stannis begins spending all his time with the priestess - while he leaves his wife on Dragonstone. Also, the way Melisandre propositions Davos in one of the later books, and says she can no longer take from Stannis in the same way, implies that she wasn't just taking blood from him.

Cool, I haven't read DWD yet so maybe there is more about it in there.I would say the opposite

Spoiler

Stannis and Mel have sex in the books but it is nothing like portrayed in the episode. My opinion is that it is a tantric magic sex ritual and that Stannis is not consciously aware of what happens. In ADwD it is obliquely implied that Jon and Melisandre have sex but Jon is not aware of it in his PoVs.

I do not get that second part at all from my readings.

Spoiler

I would suggest a reread of ADwD the last part of Jon VI.

The Shadow Baby text in Clash and the exact same text in Dance is not a coincidence.

ACoK Davos II -

Her eyes were hot coals, and the sweat that dappled her skin seemed to glow with a light of its own. Melisandre shone.

Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both. And Davos saw the crown of the child’s head push its way out of her. Two arms wriggled free, grasping, black fingers coiling around Melisandre’s straining thighs, pushing, until the whole of the shadow slid out into the world

ADwD Melisandre I -

The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover’s hand.

 

[Clifford]

Did that last scene happen in the book?

Not that I recall. What craster does to his sons was alluded to a lot though iirc. What other differences were there tonight? Cersei ordered the ******* murders in the book right?

I don't remember:John being knocked out by CrasterStannis ####### Melissandre (though this was constantly alluded to)alsoSeems like Davos was already named Hand of Stannis when season began. This removed the burning of the former hand who I believe was kin to Stannis's wife. Lots of setup lost on the Dragonstone part of the story.A lot of it is being rushed through, and a lot is being lost in the process. The relationship between Davos and Stannis is nothing like it was in the book. IIRC, Davos was put in prison for defying Stannis on something before being named Hand.

 

[Gr00vus]

 

[Clifford]

You too huh? Kinda disappointed by first two episodes. Wondering if I would have been similarly disappointed by season 1 had I read the book prior.

 

[Kraft...]

You too huh? Kinda disappointed by first two episodes. Wondering if I would have been similarly disappointed by season 1 had I read the book prior.

I'm feeling this way too.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Spoiler

I would suggest a reread of ADwD the last part of Jon VI.

The Shadow Baby text in Clash and the exact same text in Dance is not a coincidence.

ACoK Davos II -

Her eyes were hot coals, and the sweat that dappled her skin seemed to glow with a light of its own. Melisandre shone.

Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both. And Davos saw the crown of the child’s head push its way out of her. Two arms wriggled free, grasping, black fingers coiling around Melisandre’s straining thighs, pushing, until the whole of the shadow slid out into the world

ADwD Melisandre I -

The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover’s hand.

Spoiler

I would think that Mance Rayder, Rattleshirt, one of her guards, or even Davos' son is more likely. Mance even implies that he knows what Melisandre's kiss feels like (when describing how the ruby felt against him). I find it far more likely she slept with Rattleshirt and Mance to create the illusions around them. I thought she mentioned she needed a part of a man to make those images (but I could be misremembering the context of that). Jon doesn't want anything to do with Melisandre.

 

[Clifford]

Anyone else bother by the CGI wolves? Kinda twilight-ish.

 

[sn0mm1s]

You too huh? Kinda disappointed by first two episodes. Wondering if I would have been similarly disappointed by season 1 had I read the book prior.

I'm feeling this way too.

The books are far better than the show - and I think if you read the books you aren't as impressed with it. However, the story is still there and the story is still good. I know several people who haven't read the books that are absolutely loving the show.

 

[Gr00vus]

Anyone else bother by the CGI wolves? Kinda twilight-ish.

What else can they do? Besides, there was so much other stuff off with this episode, how the wolf looked is way down the list. I wonder how much of that Martin signed off on.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

You too huh? Kinda disappointed by first two episodes. Wondering if I would have been similarly disappointed by season 1 had I read the book prior.

I'm feeling this way too.

The books are far better than the show - and I think if you read the books you aren't as impressed with it. However, the story is still there and the story is still good. I know several people who haven't read the books that are absolutely loving the show.

I picked up the books because of how awesome Season 1 was and now I'm midway through the 3rd book. I wouldnt refer to it as dosappointing but just different but still very good.**ETA** I do agree that the books are better (isnt that always the case?) and that everyone I know who has not read them loves the show

 

[Clifford]

Anyone else bother by the CGI wolves? Kinda twilight-ish.

What else can they do? Besides, there was so much other stuff off with this episode, how the wolf looked is way down the list. I wonder how much of that Martin signed off on.

So what are your thoughts?

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

You too huh? Kinda disappointed by first two episodes. Wondering if I would have been similarly disappointed by season 1 had I read the book prior.

I don't think so, because, other than the addition of Roz and the conversation between Cat and Jaime, Season 1 was in almost perfect lockstep with Book 1. On the other hand, Season 2 seems to be inventing scenes in favor of sticking to the script.

 

[EYLive]

So that girl just let her brother stimulate her?

Pretty much, in the book I believe she grabbed his package too.

IIRC, she pushed him away for the most part. Grabbing the package was just to mess with him.I think Asha definitely qualifies for the 'Oddly attracted to' thread. Not a true beauty, but there was something about her in those leathers...

In the book Theon grabbed a breast - but that was it Yara/Asha prevented anything else. Yara/Asha was leading him on to see what kind of a person he was and to learn about Robb Stark and the war. She did grab his package through his pants though to mess with him. The exchange in the book is a good one - the scene in the show really missed the mark IMO.

Yeah that's right, boob only. Agree the scene missed the mark.

Theon finding out that he was groping his sister was one of the funniest moments in the book. It wasn't so funny on screen, and I was hoping that Asha would be much hotter.

 

[Clifford]

At first I thought I was misremembering since it's been since July when I read Clash of Kings, but they seem to be inventing a lot and taking away a lot. There is almost no tension between Seaworth/Stannis/Mellissandre at all. Granted that tension did not amount to much plot action but it made the relationships much more interesting. I'm not getting any nervousness/distrust from Seaworth at all.

And was Bronn immediately named captain of the gold cloaks?

 

[EYLive]

At first I thought I was misremembering since it's been since July when I read Clash of Kings, but they seem to be inventing a lot and taking away a lot. There is almost no tension between Seaworth/Stannis/Mellissandre at all. Granted that tension did not amount to much plot action but it made the relationships much more interesting. I'm not getting any nervousness/distrust from Seaworth at all.

And was Bronn immediately named captain of the gold cloaks?

I'm not sure he ever was.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Last night has me a little worried.

I like a good sex scene as much as the next guy, but it seems like they're just tossing in extra ones for the hell of it. What was the point of Theon and that ugly chick on the boat? (Seriously, that might have been the worst set of boobs I've ever seen on camera)

Lets just get the story rolling.

it was in the book.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Last night has me a little worried.I like a good sex scene as much as the next guy, but it seems like they're just tossing in extra ones for the hell of it. What was the point of Theon and that ugly chick on the boat? (Seriously, that might have been the worst set of boobs I've ever seen on camera) Lets just get the story rolling.

That was true to the book. The Roz stuff isn't. I'm not sure what they are doing with her and littlefinger. I like hearin about him in the book and I like the actor playing him, but his/their scenes in the show are my least favorite and seem unnecessary.

I just view Roz as a workaround to Littlefinger not having a POV in the books. Same deal once

Spoiler

Robb's love interest gets introduced.

 

[sn0mm1s]

At first I thought I was misremembering since it's been since July when I read Clash of Kings, but they seem to be inventing a lot and taking away a lot. There is almost no tension between Seaworth/Stannis/Mellissandre at all. Granted that tension did not amount to much plot action but it made the relationships much more interesting. I'm not getting any nervousness/distrust from Seaworth at all.

And was Bronn immediately named captain of the gold cloaks?

I'm not sure he ever was.

Spoiler

He wasn't - but in this case I don't have a problem with the decision. In the books Jacelyn Bywater is made captain and Allar Deem killed the infant. However, instead of introducing 2 new minor characters they just merged Bronn and Bywater into one guy and Deem and Slynt into one guy.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

At first I thought I was misremembering since it's been since July when I read Clash of Kings, but they seem to be inventing a lot and taking away a lot. There is almost no tension between Seaworth/Stannis/Mellissandre at all. Granted that tension did not amount to much plot action but it made the relationships much more interesting. I'm not getting any nervousness/distrust from Seaworth at all.And was Bronn immediately named captain of the gold cloaks?

Spoiler

The Janos Slynt scene was slightly different in the books. He had been promised a lordship (Harrenhal)for his betrayal, and he had given Tyrion a list of men whom he recommended to replace him as head of the Goldcloaks. Tyrion gets him drunk, then informs him that he and his list of men are all going to the wall, and he named Jacelyn Bywater the new head of the City Watch. Bronn was never captain of the city watch in the books - always just a personal guard for Tyrion (until Cercei bribed him).One other minor discrepancy I recalled was that, at Pyke, I think Theon was met by his super religious uncle at the dock - Aeron? I don't think he runs into Asha until a few days later.Also, I don't think Arya revealed her identity to Gendry until much later in the trip north.

 

[shuke]

You too huh? Kinda disappointed by first two episodes. Wondering if I would have been similarly disappointed by season 1 had I read the book prior.

I don't think so, because, other than the addition of Roz and the conversation between Cat and Jaime, Season 1 was in almost perfect lockstep with Book 1. On the other hand, Season 2 seems to be inventing scenes in favor of sticking to the script.

Agreed. Season 1 was awesome. Season 2 has me scratching my head. The story is good enough that is doesn't need to be changed. With that said, I don't have a problem with Stannis/Mel scene because it was alluded to in the books. Also, I'm glad the wolves are huge CGI things rather than real dogs.

 

[shuke]

At first I thought I was misremembering since it's been since July when I read Clash of Kings, but they seem to be inventing a lot and taking away a lot. There is almost no tension between Seaworth/Stannis/Mellissandre at all. Granted that tension did not amount to much plot action but it made the relationships much more interesting. I'm not getting any nervousness/distrust from Seaworth at all.

And was Bronn immediately named captain of the gold cloaks?

I'm not sure he ever was.

Spoiler

He wasn't - but in this case I don't have a problem with the decision. In the books Jacelyn Bywater is made captain and Allar Deem killed the infant. However, instead of introducing 2 new minor characters they just merged Bronn and Bywater into one guy and Deem and Slynt into one guy.

Spoiler

But didn't Deem do it under Slynt's command?