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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (4 Viewers)

I would humbly suggest that discussion on how events from the last episode might affect future characters/plotlines be taken inside spoler tags.

 
As a non-reader of the books, I'm having a harder time getting into Season 2, likely due in no small part to three of my favorite characters buying the farm in season 1, and there being no central protagonist.

 
'Matthias said:
I also don't remember Margeary ever being that devious/power-plotting in the slighest.

I wonder if they're planning on nixing her grandmother's role and just have her charcter folded into Margeary if they get that far.
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Had same reaction. And probably.
 
'Clifford said:
'CletiusMaximus said:
I recall Lommy's death being something that really affected me when reading Clash of King's many years ago. I wasn't much bothered by the youthful sex and incest like Pick and Chet, but the brutal, casual killing of peasant children was a bit hard to stomach at times. Anyway, I don't think its much of a spoiler to note that it seems they might be carving a large section out of the Arya storyline by having Amory Lorch's gang take the survivors of Yoren's gang directly to Harrenhal.
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Completely. There is a lot being lost to save time. It has to be done for some extent, but non-readers completely missed on his death. IN the series, nothing more than offing an insignificant character to throw the crown off Gendry's trail. And by going straight to Lorch and completely missing the Brave Companions, we are going to lose some of the primary driver's of Arrya's character development, who seems at the end of DoD to be the most important.
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I don't think so. She doesn't run into the Brave Companions until Harrenhal. In the books she escapes from Lorch, gets captured by the Mountain, and then goes to Harrenhal.
 
'Matthias said:
I also don't remember Margeary ever being that devious/power-plotting in the slighest.

I wonder if they're planning on nixing her grandmother's role and just have her charcter folded into Margeary if they get that far.
Click to expand...
She was never outwardly devious or power hungry - but she is. It seems likely that she was part of Joffrey's wedding fiasco, she is clued in on Joffrey's parentage - and doesn't care, she wants Sansa's claim to Winterfell etc. etc. In her conversations with her grandmother it is pretty obvious that she is an active partipant - not just someone following her grandmother's lead.
 
'sn0mm1s said:
'Matthias said:
I also don't remember Margeary ever being that devious/power-plotting in the slighest.

I wonder if they're planning on nixing her grandmother's role and just have her charcter folded into Margeary if they get that far.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
She was never outwardly devious or power hungry - but she is. It seems likely that she was part of Joffrey's wedding fiasco, she is clued in on Joffrey's parentage - and doesn't care, she wants Sansa's claim to Winterfell etc. etc. In her conversations with her grandmother it is pretty obvious that she is an active partipant - not just someone following her grandmother's lead.
Agree I think her scheming is more covert, she is definitely smart and ambitious. One of the female characters I really enjoyed in the books.
 
'Swing 51 said:
'gump said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'gump said:
Something I didn't quite get. Is Tyrion really marrying Myrcella off....or was that just a trick to determine the leak? I thought the latter....but the scene with Tyrion and Cercei seemed to indicate it was both.
Click to expand...
It was both.
Click to expand...
So if it is both, who is Myrcella getting married off to again....and what house was he from?
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Betrothed to Prince Trystane of House Martell in Dorne.
Click to expand...
I don't see that House in the guide....is the purpose to bring them and their soldiers in the fold on the war to help against Robb?
 
'gump said:
'Swing 51 said:
'gump said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'gump said:
Something I didn't quite get. Is Tyrion really marrying Myrcella off....or was that just a trick to determine the leak? I thought the latter....but the scene with Tyrion and Cercei seemed to indicate it was both.
Click to expand...
It was both.
Click to expand...
So if it is both, who is Myrcella getting married off to again....and what house was he from?
Click to expand...
Betrothed to Prince Trystane of House Martell in Dorne.
Click to expand...
I don't see that House in the guide....is the purpose to bring them and their soldiers in the fold on the war to help against Robb?
Click to expand...
Yep pretty much a numbers game. This is where politics starts coming in to play. You have to remember that Elia Martell and her kids were (and Elia was raped) killed by Lannister men during the Sack of King's Landing. House MartellSigilA golden sun pierced by a spearMotto"Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken"House Martell is one of the Great Houses of Westeros. It rules the peninsula of Dorne in the far south of the continent from the castle at Sunspear. Though loyal to the Iron Throne, it has pursued a more isolated role in events since Robert's Rebellion.Princess Elia Martell, married to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. Slain in the Sack of King's Landing along with her two children.
 
'gump said:
'Swing 51 said:
'gump said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'gump said:
Something I didn't quite get. Is Tyrion really marrying Myrcella off....or was that just a trick to determine the leak? I thought the latter....but the scene with Tyrion and Cercei seemed to indicate it was both.
Click to expand...
It was both.
Click to expand...
So if it is both, who is Myrcella getting married off to again....and what house was he from?
Click to expand...
Betrothed to Prince Trystane of House Martell in Dorne.
Click to expand...
I don't see that House in the guide....is the purpose to bring them and their soldiers in the fold on the war to help against Robb?
Click to expand...
With all this marrying to create allies, what is the purpose of Joffrey marrying Sansa at this point? They don't like each other, and there seems to be no point to it since the Starks are going to war regardless. Why don't they just hold her prisoner?
 
'Clifford said:
'CletiusMaximus said:
I recall Lommy's death being something that really affected me when reading Clash of King's many years ago. I wasn't much bothered by the youthful sex and incest like Pick and Chet, but the brutal, casual killing of peasant children was a bit hard to stomach at times. Anyway, I don't think its much of a spoiler to note that it seems they might be carving a large section out of the Arya storyline by having Amory Lorch's gang take the survivors of Yoren's gang directly to Harrenhal.
Click to expand...
Completely. There is a lot being lost to save time. It has to be done for some extent, but non-readers completely missed on his death. IN the series, nothing more than offing an insignificant character to throw the crown off Gendry's trail. And by going straight to Lorch
and completely missing the Brave Companions, we are going to lose some of the primary driver's of Arrya's character development, who seems at the end of DoD to be the most important.
Click to expand...
Spoilers dude, spoilers.
Giving information indicating what won't happen is often just as bad as saying what will happen.
 
'jamny said:
'renesauz said:
'Matthias said:
'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
'TLEF316 said:
very good episode tonight. I think we're back on track.

Renly's wife is seriously sexy.
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yeah she was smoking.
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Seriously.
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:goodposting: :banned: :excited:
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Glad to see her again. She was great as Anne Boleyn in the series The Tudors.So hot. She plays manipulative and evil very well.
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Margery :wub: She more than makes up for Asha/Yara being played by a butterface. Also, was it just me or does Sansa look more beautiful than last year?
 
Another thing that impresses me about the series is the quality of acting they're getting from just about everybody in the minor roles. The people playing characters like Joren, Pycelle, Luwin, Gilly, Slynt, etc. have been great.

 
'Sabertooth said:
Wasn't Margery like 14 in the books?
Click to expand...
They bumped up the ages of nearly all the younger characters for the series to make things slightly less creepy/more palatable for 21st century (U.S.) sensibilities. I think Margaery starts out at 16 years old when first introduced in the books.
 
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'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
'chet said:
What did the letter that Theon burned say? I assume it betrayed his father's plans to Robb?
Click to expand...
yeah, it was a warning of what was coming. I though the drowned god ceremony was and actual drowning and then a revival?
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Only for the more priestly types. Apparently there's multiple levels possible for the ceremony, and Theon only does the lowest level. In the books it described the full drowning for a priest...one of the uncles or something.
 
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'Gr00vus said:
Another thing that impresses me about the series is the quality of acting they're getting from just about everybody in the minor roles. The people playing characters like Joren, Pycelle, Luwin, Gilly, Slynt, etc. have been great.
Click to expand...
I agree and would add Jeor Mormont to the list as well.
 
'Swing 51 said:
'gump said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'gump said:
Something I didn't quite get. Is Tyrion really marrying Myrcella off....or was that just a trick to determine the leak? I thought the latter....but the scene with Tyrion and Cercei seemed to indicate it was both.
Click to expand...
It was both.
Click to expand...
So if it is both, who is Myrcella getting married off to again....and what house was he from?
Click to expand...
Betrothed to Prince Trystane of House Martell in Dorne.
Click to expand...
Eventually, but I don't think she was at this point in the story.
 
'jdoggydogg said:
'chet said:
What did the letter that Theon burned say? I assume it betrayed his father's plans to Robb?
Click to expand...
Really surprised that Theon could betray Robb.
Click to expand...
wasnt easy for him. Looked like he was ready to tell his fathers plans. Seems like the starks treated him really well for being a ward and all. Seems to me like in this world, the Starks are the exception to the rule, where everyone else is very ruthless. theon is lucky he wasnt sent as a "guest" to another house
 
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'SeveredHorseHeads said:
'Gr00vus said:
Another thing that impresses me about the series is the quality of acting they're getting from just about everybody in the minor roles. The people playing characters like Joren, Pycelle, Luwin, Gilly, Slynt, etc. have been great.
Click to expand...
I agree and would add Jeor Mormont to the list as well.
Click to expand...
:yes:It's nice to see him get a role other than crazy/angry older Scottish warrior dad (for those of us in the U.S).
 
'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
'jdoggydogg said:
'chet said:
What did the letter that Theon burned say? I assume it betrayed his father's plans to Robb?
Click to expand...
Really surprised that Theon could betray Robb.
Click to expand...
wasnt easy for him. Looked like he was ready to tell his fathers plans. Seems like the starks treated him really well for being a ward and all. Seems to me like in this world, the Starks are the exception to the rule, where everyone else is very ruthless. theon is lucky he wasnt sent as a "guest" to another house
Click to expand...
I haven't read the books yet, so obviously I can only guess here. But it occurs to me that the Starks treated Theon better than his own father did. So I'll hold out hope that he rejoins the Starks.
 
I haven't read the books yet, so obviously I can only guess here. But it occurs to me that the Starks treated Theon better than his own father did. So I'll hold out hope that he rejoins the Starks.
Click to expand...
:no: :cry: Poor Jdog, still a Knight of Summer. Winter is Coming. Bigtime.
 
'Sabertooth said:
I haven't read the books yet, so obviously I can only guess here. But it occurs to me that the Starks treated Theon better than his own father did. So I'll hold out hope that he rejoins the Starks.
Click to expand...
:no: :cry: Poor Jdog, still a Knight of Summer. Winter is Coming. Bigtime.
Click to expand...
I was really impressed with Theon's scenes in this past episode. I have far more sympathy for the character now than during my reading, and his fall will be heart-wrenching. He still has hope for redemption even in aDwD, but not like JDD expects, I'm sure. Oh, my sweet summer child...
 
'Abrantes said:
'Sabertooth said:
I haven't read the books yet, so obviously I can only guess here. But it occurs to me that the Starks treated Theon better than his own father did. So I'll hold out hope that he rejoins the Starks.
Click to expand...
:no: :cry: Poor Jdog, still a Knight of Summer. Winter is Coming. Bigtime.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I was really impressed with Theon's scenes in this past episode. I have far more sympathy for the character now than during my reading, and his fall will be heart-wrenching. He still has hope for redemption even in aDwD, but not like JDD expects, I'm sure. Oh, my sweet summer child...
Totally agree. I was still smarting from the events in the first book's climatic scenes, so held much ill will towards this character in the following books. And even tho he sort of gets his in AWwD, still didn't feel all that bad for him. But in the show they've really done a good job setting Theon up and little has gone as he expected since he left Robb's camp. I think the viewer has much more sympathy than the reader.
 
'Sabertooth said:
I haven't read the books yet, so obviously I can only guess here. But it occurs to me that the Starks treated Theon better than his own father did. So I'll hold out hope that he rejoins the Starks.
Click to expand...
:no: :cry: Poor Jdog, still a Knight of Summer. Winter is Coming. Bigtime.
Click to expand...
Lord Theon and Lord Rickon... It can still happen in book 7
 
I really thought last night was a near perfect adaptation. It changed things where necessary, kept the flavor, stayed true on some key things, and the acting was superb.

 
I thought last night's episode was kind of weak. Not enough baby-murdering for my taste. Sure, they killed like an eight year old kid, but after back to back episodes featuring wanton infant slaughter, that just doesn't do it for me anymore.

Hopefully they can get back on track next week.

 
Something else I don't get. The dude who's taking the group to the wall, he openly defies the king's men (again) and gets fired up by the crossbow. First, wouldn't he expect them to have a crossbow (I could see it), and secondly, I got the impression that he lived a pretty sketchy life and could handle himself in a fight. Why would he just wait for the king's men to show up in force? Why wouldn't he have tried to ambush them or something?

 
'James Daulton said:
Something else I don't get. The dude who's taking the group to the wall, he openly defies the king's men (again) and gets fired up by the crossbow. First, wouldn't he expect them to have a crossbow (I could see it), and secondly, I got the impression that he lived a pretty sketchy life and could handle himself in a fight. Why would he just wait for the king's men to show up in force? Why wouldn't he have tried to ambush them or something?
Click to expand...
The Night's Watch does not serve any king. So F those King's men. And Yoren took out like 10 dudes after catching a cross-bow arrow, so I think he handled himself pretty damn well. They were heading for the wall, they were not at war, so he wasn't hunting down this group in any manner that would allow him to ambush them.
 
'James Daulton said:
Something else I don't get. The dude who's taking the group to the wall, he openly defies the king's men (again) and gets fired up by the crossbow. First, wouldn't he expect them to have a crossbow (I could see it), and secondly, I got the impression that he lived a pretty sketchy life and could handle himself in a fight. Why would he just wait for the king's men to show up in force? Why wouldn't he have tried to ambush them or something?
Click to expand...
As soon as the first confrontation happened, and he didn't yield, he knew he was a dead man walking imo. /showcomment
In the book (IIRC) they fortified a small hold and fought it out a little more. In the end, the Lannister bannerman burns them out (with fire arrows not an errant, dropped torch). It was more of a battle but still a slaughter
/bookcomment

 
'James Daulton said:
Something else I don't get. The dude who's taking the group to the wall, he openly defies the king's men (again) and gets fired up by the crossbow. First, wouldn't he expect them to have a crossbow (I could see it), and secondly, I got the impression that he lived a pretty sketchy life and could handle himself in a fight. Why would he just wait for the king's men to show up in force? Why wouldn't he have tried to ambush them or something?
Click to expand...
He really didn't expect them to come back. Men headed to the wall were generally considered sancosanct. When Robert took the throne, they even left a Targarean alive on the wall...because men on the wall are considered protectors of the realm but no longer a part of the realm. He's really surprised that they ever thought to bother him the first time, let alone return in force. ETA: But yes...they also fought it out a little more in the book.
 
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