HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)

[Maelstrom]

While I love Jon Snow's stuff so far in Storm of Swords I think I like the angle they went on the show better, anyone else feel the same?

Spoiler

Not really. The deaths of the other guys with him are his fault in the show - that isn't the case in the book. Also, we are completely missing Jon seeing through Ghost's eyes and Varamyr Six Skins. Basically, what is a conscious decision in the book (releasing Ygritte) is now a bumbling mistake that results in him being captured and everyone else being killed.

I agree with sn0mm1s, this was probably one of the things I wasn't as happy with, and I definitely preferred the book storyline. While I think HBO has done a very good job with what they have, but it could have been that much better with an additional 6-8 episodes to further flesh a few storylines out.

 

[Steed]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

 

[Tabasco Red]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

I originally thought the same thing, but the timing doesn't match up. Yoren had his pick of the dungeons and had them chained and on his way by the time Syrio had to defend Arya.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not but

Spoiler

Isnt Dany from that same town too?

I'm only midway throw Storm of swords so maybe it's common knowledge.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Im a little disappointed that they didnt at least show Dany's vision of a blue rose coming out of the ice when she was beyond the wall to throw the book readers a bone. Surely that wouldnt have put them over budget.

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

Im also not sure why they had Dagmer knock Theon out and not show us anything that happened at winterfell and why. Im not sure what they were thinking there nor what. Non-readers think happened. Makes little sense to me.

This season was not as good as the first, although i still rather enjoyed it. I think it was too fragmented. I know there were time constraints, but feel the best episodes were more focused.

The battle of the blackwater episode was by far and away the best episode of the season. The writing and acting was top notch. While the battle itself seemed a bit less grand than they led on in interviews it still was a great episode itself. Probably because A. Grrm wrote it and knew how to handle the characters and stories properly B. putting that song in really gave you a feel for westeros and C. It all took place in kings landing and was focused.

Seasons 3 and 4 should in theory be some of the best tv ever. If they dont mess it up. It wasnt so much the deviations that disappointed me this seaosn (though some surely did like the chain which could have been handled quick and easy instead of some other throwaway scenes, the westerlings, and jon snow as i point out above) but rather the manner and pacing of the stories

 

[Stoneys]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not but

Spoiler

Isnt Dany from that same town too?

I'm only midway throw Storm of swords so maybe it's common knowledge.

No that is not a spoiler. Dany moved around Essos, but at the beginning of season 1 she was living in Pentos, not Braavos.

 

[renesauz]

"After all, as some of you like to point out in your emails, I am sixty years old and fat, and you don't want me to 'pull a Robert Jordan' on you and deny you your book. Okay, I've got the message. You don't want me doing anything except A Song of Ice and Fire. Ever. (Well, maybe it's okay if I take a leak once in a while?)—George R. R. Martin on his blog in 2009[100]

How big of a worry is his age and condition? His books are the first of this kind that I've read. I normally only read non-fiction and it's a quick one and done. Would someone just take over writing them or are they already written and waiting for release? How would all of this work?

Definately a worry. Jordan died with at least 3 books left to his long series....and he wasn't taking 5 years between books. Martin HAS taken that long between books and has at least 2 more to come.OTOH...Jordan knew he was dying, wrote key parts of the last (final unpublished yet) book and a lot of notes, and found a decent young writer to finish it for him. Kid did a decent job on his first contribution too.

 

[belljr]

BRONN

 

[gump]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Didn't he find out Arya's name after she released him from the cage?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not but

Spoiler

Isnt Dany from that same town too?

Spoiler

I'm only midway throw Storm of swords so maybe it's common knowledge.

No that is not a spoiler. Dany moved around Essos, but at the beginning of season 1 she was living in Pentos, not Braavos.I thought I read that, or she said she was born in Bravos...I could be mistaken.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Hmmm - they also never really showed what happened to Syrio.

 

[Brady Marino]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Hmmm - they also never really showed what happened to Syrio.

I think the insinuation was that he croaked. I thought I heard a loud scream as Arya was getting away.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

What happened in the book? From the show, I can say that I got that Halfhand knew the key to future success was getting Jon in with the wildings, where he could "watch/defend" from within. The only way for that to happen was to make Jon look like he turned on the NightWatch by killing Halfhand. Halfhand knew that, and started the fight knowing that Jon would kill him.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Hmmm - they also never really showed what happened to Syrio.

I think the insinuation was that he croaked. I thought I heard a loud scream as Arya was getting away.

Scream could have been one of the soldiers sent to take him out. Dude was $$$ with a sword.

 

[Brady Marino]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Hmmm - they also never really showed what happened to Syrio.

I think the insinuation was that he croaked. I thought I heard a loud scream as Arya was getting away.

Scream could have been one of the soldiers sent to take him out. Dude was $$$ with a sword.

Hard to kill anyone with a stub of a broken wooden sword. But I guess it's possible and I actually hope we haven't seen the last of Syrio...I liked him.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Hmmm - they also never really showed what happened to Syrio.

I think the insinuation was that he croaked. I thought I heard a loud scream as Arya was getting away.

Scream could have been one of the soldiers sent to take him out. Dude was $$$ with a sword.

That may be, but as I recall, he was holding a broken stick when Arya ran away.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I heard there was 4.2 million viewers for the season finale-- the highest ever for the show.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I heard there was 4.2 million viewers for the season finale-- the highest ever for the show.

I saw somewhere that the show will start in February 2013 for season 3.Good to see people are tuning in.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I don't follow this thread or the show, but please stop posting spoilers (real or fake). People are getting upset.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

What happened in the book? From the show, I can say that I got that Halfhand knew the key to future success was getting Jon in with the wildings, where he could "watch/defend" from within. The only way for that to happen was to make Jon look like he turned on the NightWatch by killing Halfhand. Halfhand knew that, and started the fight knowing that Jon would kill him.

Basically in the book halhand laid it out so jon knew what he had to do and really wrestled with it. The show it seemed almost like halfhand accomplished the same thing but goaded jon and angered him to get the result. Almost like jon killed him out of anger/passion accidentally rather than a reluctant leadership decision.

 

[jamil]

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

What happened in the book? From the show, I can say that I got that Halfhand knew the key to future success was getting Jon in with the wildings, where he could "watch/defend" from within. The only way for that to happen was to make Jon look like he turned on the NightWatch by killing Halfhand. Halfhand knew that, and started the fight knowing that Jon would kill him.

Basically in the book halhand laid it out so jon knew what he had to do and really wrestled with it. The show it seemed almost like halfhand accomplished the same thing but goaded jon and angered him to get the result. Almost like jon killed him out of anger/passion accidentally rather than a reluctant leadership decision.

I was under the impression that they agreed on the decision. At least that's what it seemed like 2 episodes ago when they were talking.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

What happened in the book? From the show, I can say that I got that Halfhand knew the key to future success was getting Jon in with the wildings, where he could "watch/defend" from within. The only way for that to happen was to make Jon look like he turned on the NightWatch by killing Halfhand. Halfhand knew that, and started the fight knowing that Jon would kill him.

Basically in the book halhand laid it out so jon knew what he had to do and really wrestled with it. The show it seemed almost like halfhand accomplished the same thing but goaded jon and angered him to get the result. Almost like jon killed him out of anger/passion accidentally rather than a reluctant leadership decision.

I was under the impression that they agreed on the decision. At least that's what it seemed like 2 episodes ago when they were talking.

Has jon spoken since being captured or just stared? Hey, i stand corrected if non-readers were able to grasp the story. I still feel like the gravity of it was kind of glossed over though.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not but

Spoiler

Isnt Dany from that same town too?

Spoiler

I'm only midway throw Storm of swords so maybe it's common knowledge.

No that is not a spoiler. Dany moved around Essos, but at the beginning of season 1 she was living in Pentos, not Braavos.I think I found where I was confused

Spoiler

I just got to the part in the book where she agreed to trade Drogon for the Unsullied...when she got Missandei she said "Valar morghulis" to Dany and Dany knew what it meant...I took that as she had been there

Storm of Swords spoiler

 

[parrot]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Hmmm - they also never really showed what happened to Syrio.

I think the insinuation was that he croaked. I thought I heard a loud scream as Arya was getting away.

Scream could have been one of the soldiers sent to take him out. Dude was $$$ with a sword.

The 'soldier' he was facing was Meryn Trant of the the King's Guard, who clearly survived the encounter. So given that and Syrio's proclamation that "The first sword of Braavos does not run"... it don't look good for old Syrio.Then again..."What do we say to the God of Death?""Not today."

 

[culdeus]

I don't follow this thread or the show, but please stop posting spoilers (real or fake). People are getting upset.

Snape killed Dumbledore

 

[culdeus]

Anyone upset that Arya didn't get her cool sword back?

 

[peaces]

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

What happened in the book? From the show, I can say that I got that Halfhand knew the key to future success was getting Jon in with the wildings, where he could "watch/defend" from within. The only way for that to happen was to make Jon look like he turned on the NightWatch by killing Halfhand. Halfhand knew that, and started the fight knowing that Jon would kill him.

Basically in the book halhand laid it out so jon knew what he had to do and really wrestled with it. The show it seemed almost like halfhand accomplished the same thing but goaded jon and angered him to get the result. Almost like jon killed him out of anger/passion accidentally rather than a reluctant leadership decision.

I was under the impression that they agreed on the decision. At least that's what it seemed like 2 episodes ago when they were talking.

Has jon spoken since being captured or just stared? Hey, i stand corrected if non-readers were able to grasp the story. I still feel like the gravity of it was kind of glossed over though.

I haven't read the books, but I knew what was going on in the Jon/Halfhand exchanges while they were captured by the wildings. That said, it seemed kind of a far fetched storyline.

 

[s_ezy]

Found this on the interwebs:

This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Spoiler

You know, I asked him about who Jon Snow's real parents were, and he told me. I can't say who, but I can tell you that it involves a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation. It will all come to fruition eventually. The whole thing with all the fight over proper succession is partly inspired by the War of the Roses in the late 1400s, and back then, to ensure pedigree, the monarchies were kind of inbred. It's definitely ####ed up, but it definitely happened back then, so that's why there's incest with the Targaryen line. It's toned down, though.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

What happened in the book? From the show, I can say that I got that Halfhand knew the key to future success was getting Jon in with the wildings, where he could "watch/defend" from within. The only way for that to happen was to make Jon look like he turned on the NightWatch by killing Halfhand. Halfhand knew that, and started the fight knowing that Jon would kill him.

Basically in the book halhand laid it out so jon knew what he had to do and really wrestled with it. The show it seemed almost like halfhand accomplished the same thing but goaded jon and angered him to get the result. Almost like jon killed him out of anger/passion accidentally rather than a reluctant leadership decision.

Piecing together a couple of episodes, I basically got that. Its hard to show a character struggling in his mind as to what the right decision is. My take was the Jon originally did not like the idea, Halfhand really drilled in his head that he was always going to be a night watchman and that even if he "turned" he could keep his oath (and by doing that and staying alive, he was better than dead). I also got the sense that when the final fight started Jon still had not gotten in his mind that killing Halfhand was the right thing to do, but got that as the fight ended.So, I guess, I don't know what else they could have done here - its not like they could have Jon and Halfhand openly debate the idea more than the bits and pieces they showed.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

A cool podcast for non-book readers breaking down each scene. At the very end they have a spolier section...its usually the last 20 minutes but they let you know when it's coming. I found it helpful for a lot of stuff I missed in the show.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Winterfell is burned to ruins. Everybody appears dead, captured or fleed. And they leave it open ended.

 

[pantherclub]

I think they really fumbled Jon and the Halfhand's story and what Jon had to do there and why. Its not really clear on the show.

What happened in the book? From the show, I can say that I got that Halfhand knew the key to future success was getting Jon in with the wildings, where he could "watch/defend" from within. The only way for that to happen was to make Jon look like he turned on the NightWatch by killing Halfhand. Halfhand knew that, and started the fight knowing that Jon would kill him.

Basically in the book halhand laid it out so jon knew what he had to do and really wrestled with it. The show it seemed almost like halfhand accomplished the same thing but goaded jon and angered him to get the result. Almost like jon killed him out of anger/passion accidentally rather than a reluctant leadership decision.

He ordered Jon to fight him to the death and Halfhand was giving him his all until Ghost jumped in. Thats when the wildlings knew he was one of them.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

 

[Swing 51]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

Some believe, and I am one, that Rhaegar and Lyanaa were in love and ran off together after the tourney at Harrenhall during the Year of the False Spring.Lots of good evidence on this theory here:http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

 

[mad sweeney]

Winterfell is burned to ruins. Everybody appears dead, captured or fleed. And they leave it open ended.

THey call that a cliffhanger, in industry speak.

 

[Gr00vus]

Winterfell is burned to ruins. Everybody appears dead, captured or fleed. And they leave it open ended.

THey call that a cliffhanger, in industry speak.

Yeah, I think that was a good way to end it - they achieved exactly what they were going for, everyone talking about what happened there going into the offseason.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

Some believe, and I am one, that Rhaegar and Lyanaa were in love and ran off together after the tourney at Harrenhall during the Year of the False Spring.Lots of good evidence on this theory here:http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

Spoiler

Right! I'm saying that's a head fake. All of that (I think) still fits - except that it wasn't Rhaegar that got her pregnant -- Brandon did and they 'ran off' in the first place to get her away from her brother. The R+L thing was always a bit too obvious IMO and this fits with the 'Luke Skywalker' spoiler above.

 

[EYLive]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

At the time, Brandon was engaged to Cat and Lyanna to Robert. It seems strange that the 2 of them would hook up at that point and not before while in the privacy of the north. But GRRM is s weird dude so who knows.

 

[Mjolnirs]

I don't follow this thread or the show, but please stop posting spoilers (real or fake). People are getting upset.

Spoilers weren't the problem. Everyone following this thread knows the book readers are posting spoilers in spoiler tags. Actually non book readers have started a separate thread that is just for the show and spoiler free.The problem here was people posting fake spoilers outside of spoiler tags.

 

[EYLive]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

Some believe, and I am one, that Rhaegar and Lyanaa were in love and ran off together after the tourney at Harrenhall during the Year of the False Spring.Lots of good evidence on this theory here:http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

Spoiler

This is the theory that I was leaning towards as well, but there's no incest involved (that we currently know of).

 

[renesauz]

I don't follow this thread or the show, but please stop posting spoilers (real or fake). People are getting upset.

Spoilers weren't the problem. Everyone following this thread knows the book readers are posting spoilers in spoiler tags. Actually non book readers have started a separate thread that is just for the show and spoiler free.The problem here was people posting fake spoilers outside of spoiler tags.

Which is not all that differant than some of the definitive opinions and predictions made by non readers which are waaaaaaaaay off.

 

[Gr00vus]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

Some believe, and I am one, that Rhaegar and Lyanaa were in love and ran off together after the tourney at Harrenhall during the Year of the False Spring.Lots of good evidence on this theory here:http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

Spoiler

Right! I'm saying that's a head fake. All of that (I think) still fits - except that it wasn't Rhaegar that got her pregnant -- Brandon did and they 'ran off' in the first place to get her away from her brother. The R+L thing was always a bit too obvious IMO and this fits with the 'Luke Skywalker' spoiler above.

Spoiler

Being a Targaryen would be more luke skywalkerish than being the product of Stark incest. Being a Lannister would be even worse. I haven no idea how that would be possible based on the characters we know about to date though.

 

[renesauz]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

Some believe, and I am one, that Rhaegar and Lyanaa were in love and ran off together after the tourney at Harrenhall during the Year of the False Spring.Lots of good evidence on this theory here:http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

Spoiler

This is the theory that I was leaning towards as well, but there's no incest involved (that we currently know of).

I agree with this one as well.

 

[Gr00vus]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

IIRC the event timeline correctly, and we are to believe Jon's age as stated in the book, Brandon Stark (Eddard's brother) was already dead before Jon was conceived. So unless the others or a red priest/priestess is involved I don't think this scenario is possible.

 

[EYLive]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Spoiler

You know, I asked him about who Jon Snow's real parents were, and he told me. I can't say who, but I can tell you that it involves a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation. It will all come to fruition eventually. The whole thing with all the fight over proper succession is partly inspired by the War of the Roses in the late 1400s, and back then, to ensure pedigree, the monarchies were kind of inbred. It's definitely ####ed up, but it definitely happened back then, so that's why there's incest with the Targaryen line. It's toned down, though.

Spoiler

As I reread that, is seems to me that the "Luke Skywalker situation" and the topic of incest are not related. I think the E!Online reporter could have started a new paragraph when Allen began talking about proper succession and how it was inspired by historical events.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Spoiler

What's time the gap between Brandon riding into the Red Keep and the fight at the Tower of Joy?

 

[EYLive]

Found this on the interwebs:This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

IIRC the event timeline correctly, and we are to believe Jon's age as stated in the book, Brandon Stark (Eddard's brother) was already dead before Jon was conceived. So unless the others or a red priest/priestess is involved I don't think this scenario is possible.

Spoiler

what was the timeline of Lyanna's "abduction" as it related to Brandon & Rickard's death? I can never tell how long these battles last. Robb is older than Jon, right?

 

[parrot]

Valar Morghulis

Interesting they named the episode after him and that arc got less than 5 mins of run. He also knew Arya's name even though she never revealed it to him. He's from the same island as her dance instructor, same guy perhaps?

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not but

Spoiler

Isnt Dany from that same town too?

Spoiler

I'm only midway throw Storm of swords so maybe it's common knowledge.

Spoiler

No that is not a spoiler. Dany moved around Essos, but at the beginning of season 1 she was living in Pentos, not Braavos.

I thought I read that, or she said she was born in Bravos...I could be mistaken.Dany was born on Dragonstone, but she was brought to Bravos as an infant.

 

[Swing 51]

Found this on the interwebs:

This is the rarest of spoilers, insofar as it seems to apply both to the TV show and the as yet unpublished books. Theon Greyjoy actor Alfie Allen reveals he asked George R.R. Martin the answer to one of the saga's biggest unsolved mysteries, and his answer certainly drops some potentially massive clues:

Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...

Spoiler

When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...

What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?

Spoiler

IIRC the event timeline correctly, and we are to believe Jon's age as stated in the book, Brandon Stark (Eddard's brother) was already dead before Jon was conceived. So unless the others or a red priest/priestess is involved I don't think this scenario is possible.

Spoiler

what was the timeline of Lyanna's "abduction" as it related to Brandon & Rickard's death? I can never tell how long these battles last. Robb is older than Jon, right?

Spoiler

282

Dishonoring of Lyanna Stark

Rhaegar Targaryen is assumed to have hurt Lyanna in some fashion; Rhaegar may have abducted and/or raped Lyanna.

Brandon Stark rides to King's Landing to make Rhaegar answer for his crimes. Rhaegar is not at King's Landing, but Aerys arrests Brandon and his companions (Ethan Glover, Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn), demanding that their fathers come ransom them.

Trial at King's Landing

Aerys commands the execution of Brandon, his companions, and their fathers. Only Brandon's squire Ethan Glover survives.

283

Robb Stark is born to Catelyn Tully at Riverrun.

Battle by The Tower of Joy

Eddard, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, Ethan Glover, Mark Ryswell, Howland Reed, and Lord Dustin encounter Oswell Whent, Gerold Hightower, and Arthur Dayne of the Kingsguard by The Tower of Joy; only Eddard and Howland Reed survive the ensuing battle.

Death of Lyanna Stark

Lyanna dies of unknown causes, presumably at The Tower of Joy. Eddard promises her something.

Eddard returns Arthur Dayne's sword to the Daynes of Starfall. Ashara Dayne flings herself into the sea.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Spoiler

I just looked around at all the timelines and none of them are specific enough to rule this out IMO. Robb is definitely older than Jon (per Eddard and Cat), but there's nothing I found that says how old Jon was at the time of the raid on the Tower of Joy. Anyone got anything on that? If he's a total newborn it probably rules out (or at least complicates) my theory -- but if he's even a few months old I think it's still alive.