Maik Jeaunz
Footballguy
what does the blue rose signify, does if have something to do with her brother Rhaegar? (I haven't read the books, but I've done more poking around the wiki than I should have...)
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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
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parrot
Footballguy
Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...
When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?
A few picks with this theory; Incest was common among the Targaryens, among everyone else it is a serious crime. According to Eddard, Lyanna wanted to be brought back to Winterfell to buried next to her father and brother. I doubt she would make that request if her brother had raped her. Also, at the Tower of Joy, Gerold Hightower explains the presence of the three KG members there by saying "we swore a vow". This would seem to indicate that they are there doing some element of their duty to defend the King or his heirs (though they may have thought Rhaegar was the father and possibly he wasn't)
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Rick James
Footballguy
Oh wow. I have a theory that fits this.DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS! MANY MANY BIG SPOILERS...
When Brandon Stark (Eddard's Brother) goes to the Red Keep and demands that Rhaegar 'come out to die' it's because Rhaegar has 'kidnapped' Lyanna. And there's an assertion/assumption scattered through the book that Rhaegar 'raped' her. The obvious path from there is Lyanna got pregnant when Rhaegar raped her, Jon is their son, and Brandon Stark was killed when he went to avenge his sister. Which started the rebellion. But...What if it was Brandon Stark that got Lyanna pregnant and Rhaegar 'rescued' her? Incest is fairly common in Westeros and Brandon was supposedly quite rash. That would make the Starks responsible for the war, and would help explain why Aerys called Brandon and all his supporters to the Keep and killed them. It would also make Jon the son of his Uncle Brandon and Aunt Lyanna, and give Eddard even MORE reason to pursue Lyanna to the Tower of Joy where he and his friends defeated the Kingsguard and took the infant with them afterwards to be raised as Eddard's *******?
From what we know about the Starks, that theory is preposterous.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Seems like these spoilers are heating up...am I the only one who wants to open them but am to far behind on the books?
Slider6
Footballguy
I'm only at the beginning of book 4. I hate that I'm going to have to come back and find these when I finally finish book 5.
Chaka
Footballguy
Probably not
Swing 51
Footballguy
According to Eddard, Lyanna wanted to be brought back to Winterfell to buried next to her father and brother.
Yup. Which kinda kills the claim that Lyanna made Ned promise to take her remains back to Winterfell - everyone knows remains/bones of Starks are buried in the crypts. Was the honorable Ned Stark lying to everyone and claiming John Snow as his so Robert wouldn't kill Snow? I think so...
Gr00vus
Footballguy
IIRC the event timeline correctly, and we are to believe Jon's age as stated in the book, Brandon Stark (Eddard's brother) was already dead before Jon was conceived. So unless the others or a red priest/priestess is involved I don't think this scenario is possible.
what was the timeline of Lyanna's "abduction" as it related to Brandon & Rickard's death? I can never tell how long these battles last. Robb is older than Jon, right?
282
Dishonoring of Lyanna Stark
Rhaegar Targaryen is assumed to have hurt Lyanna in some fashion; Rhaegar may have abducted and/or raped Lyanna.
Brandon Stark rides to King's Landing to make Rhaegar answer for his crimes. Rhaegar is not at King's Landing, but Aerys arrests Brandon and his companions (Ethan Glover, Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn), demanding that their fathers come ransom them.
Trial at King's Landing
Aerys commands the execution of Brandon, his companions, and their fathers. Only Brandon's squire Ethan Glover survives.
283
Robb Stark is born to Catelyn Tully at Riverrun.
Battle by The Tower of Joy
Eddard, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, Ethan Glover, Mark Ryswell, Howland Reed, and Lord Dustin encounter Oswell Whent, Gerold Hightower, and Arthur Dayne of the Kingsguard by The Tower of Joy; only Eddard and Howland Reed survive the ensuing battle.
Death of Lyanna Stark
Lyanna dies of unknown causes, presumably at The Tower of Joy. Eddard promises her something.
Eddard returns Arthur Dayne's sword to the Daynes of Starfall. Ashara Dayne flings herself into the sea.
Dishonoring of Lyanna Stark
Rhaegar Targaryen is assumed to have hurt Lyanna in some fashion; Rhaegar may have abducted and/or raped Lyanna.
Brandon Stark rides to King's Landing to make Rhaegar answer for his crimes. Rhaegar is not at King's Landing, but Aerys arrests Brandon and his companions (Ethan Glover, Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn), demanding that their fathers come ransom them.
Trial at King's Landing
Aerys commands the execution of Brandon, his companions, and their fathers. Only Brandon's squire Ethan Glover survives.
283
Robb Stark is born to Catelyn Tully at Riverrun.
Battle by The Tower of Joy
Eddard, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, Ethan Glover, Mark Ryswell, Howland Reed, and Lord Dustin encounter Oswell Whent, Gerold Hightower, and Arthur Dayne of the Kingsguard by The Tower of Joy; only Eddard and Howland Reed survive the ensuing battle.
Death of Lyanna Stark
Lyanna dies of unknown causes, presumably at The Tower of Joy. Eddard promises her something.
Eddard returns Arthur Dayne's sword to the Daynes of Starfall. Ashara Dayne flings herself into the sea.
The entirety of Robert's Rebellion happened between the Trial at King's landing and the Battle by the Tower of Joy. Considering (for example) the siege of Storm's End lasted a year by itself, I don't think there's any way Brandon Stark could have been Jon's father.
EYLive
Footballguy
They're not really spoilers as they are theories. People are trading evidence to support their theories, but it's nothing that could ruin the enjoyment of the show since none of this is confirmed yet (through the first 5 books at least).But just to be safe, best not to open.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Unknown. There is a theory out there, but I do not want to spoil anything for you. I just thought it would have been something cool and easy to throw in there for us nerds.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
thats why I dont think Jon Snow is dead. too much speculation on his parentage to just have him whacked now
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Two Game of Thrones rap songs:
Swing 51
Footballguy
I need to read Book 5 again but didn't John's wounds smoke much like one of Dany's dragons (Drogon's?) did when it was hit by an arrow? Would make sense considering he would be "blood of the dragon" - at least half that is.But yeah I agree, no way he is dead. Tho some theories suggest he is Azor Ahai and will reborn by some spell Mel pulls off.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I need to read Book 5 again but didn't John's wounds smoke much like one of Dany's dragons (Drogon's?) did when it was hit by an arrow? Would make sense considering he would be "blood of the dragon" - at least half that is.But yeah I agree, no way he is dead. Tho some theories suggest he is Azor Ahai and will reborn by some spell Mel pulls off.
I don't recall his wounds smoking at that point, but it's certain he burned when he saved Mormont from the wights, so he's definitely not a dragon like Dany (though he could still be a Targaryen like Viserys was) at this point. No way Martin kills him off IMO, just too many dangling threads would result.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I am a bit curious as to why that's a problem.
Chaka
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I don't speak for everyone but my issue with it is that I'm only on book 3 and I have no way of knowing if it's true or not. Some here may but some don't and unfortunately you can't erase it from your memory after you read it.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
If you aren't a book reader then you don't know it's a fake spoiler. From your point of view you've just been spoiled.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Definitely.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Or if you know it is a fake spoiler then it isn't true which is in a way a spoiler. The worst offenses IMO are the nonspoiler tagged comments that reveal certain characters are still around in book 4 or 5.
Moe.
Footballguy
Exactly. Is it really that hard to just not be an ######?
Why so bashful?
Clifford
Footballguy
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Kind of odd that Robb and Cat havent ever been told about Bran and Rickon's "deaths" as that emotion played a major role in what Robb and Cat did these last episodes in the books. Omitting that emotion and the chain/tyrion's masterfulness and adding scene's with Ros and other things out of thin air are what annoy me a bit. They could have worked.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Why do Robb and fakejeyne get married under the 7 gods. Shouldnt he worship the old gods and she something from essos?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I imagine there wasn't a weirwood handy wherever they were at that point. Also Robb's mom worshiped the 7, not the old gods, so its not a huge stretch for him. Maybe Jeyne's family worshiped the 7 even though they were in Volantis?
(Or maybe she's not fakejeyne after all).
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Often in ancient history gods had geographicial turf.
EYLive
Footballguy
I noticed that too, but weren't they in front of a godswood tree with the septon?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Or it's so outrageous that it's not anything at all.'Ilov80s said:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
'Moe. said:
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Sorry Sally, but you're in a thread started by one of the biggest book fans on the board. You know there's a huge potential for spoilers and there's also a thread for non book readers. Half the conjecture by people who haven't read it all is worse spoilers than the jokes. If you want to take a chance in a place where most have read the books, don't cry when someone has a little fun.'Moe. said:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
You know there's the huge potential to see spoilers like you know when you're being an ### and not putting a spoiler tage around them.There is a thread for non-book readers but where's the one for the guys who are reading the books now? Where's the book 3 thread?The tough talk is funny in a thread like this too
mad sweeney
Footballguy
You can start any thread you want. I've never put a spoiler, or anything close to a believable fake spoiler, not in tags so your ### comment is really misplaced, and quite frankly rude and unnecessary. As for tough talk? I was just responding to the guy who thought it was a good idea to jump in and call people names. But I notice you didn't go after him...eta: bottom line, it's a thread started by book readers. If you don't want any spoilers, stay out.You know there's the huge potential to see spoilers like you know when you're being an ### and not putting a spoiler tage around them.There is a thread for non-book readers but where's the one for the guys who are reading the books now? Where's the book 3 thread?The tough talk is funny in a thread like this too
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SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
:throwsknifeinmiddle:
CBusAlex
Footballguy
Until you open the box, Ned Stark is both alive and dead.
He's alive!
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John Bender
Footballguy
No reason not to read these if you like the show. Books 2 and 3 are epic.
Book 4 is not so epic.
Book 5 picks back up again a bit.
Awesome books.
Book 4 is not so epic.
Book 5 picks back up again a bit.
Awesome books.
EYLive
Footballguy
Varys switched prisoners with Ned before the beheading and smuggled him Yunkai, where he became a slave named Sweets.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I know. Im talking about it being a purposeful deviation from the books but am unsure why they did so.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The "you" in my reply was meant to be in a general form, I apologize for the confusion. And please, don't be the guy casting stones at another then acting all butt hurt when it comes to you. Rude? Seriously? Man up, Sally.You can start any thread you want. I've never put a spoiler, or anything close to a believable fake spoiler, not in tags so your ### comment is really misplaced, and quite frankly rude and unnecessary. As for tough talk? I was just responding to the guy who thought it was a good idea to jump in and call people names. But I notice you didn't go after him...eta: bottom line, it's a thread started by book readers. If you don't want any spoilers, stay out.You know there's the huge potential to see spoilers like you know when you're being an ### and not putting a spoiler tage around them.There is a thread for non-book readers but where's the one for the guys who are reading the books now? Where's the book 3 thread?The tough talk is funny in a thread like this too
Also the thread title is "HBO acquires rights to A Song of Ice and Fire Series"...in fact, if you start on page 1 it almost reads as if this is more about the HBO show then the books. None of it matters now given the direction the thread has taken but people being curtious with the spoiler tags seems to be the norm. There's also no need to start other threads given the fact that a majority of the book readers seem like pretty cool people and slap a spoiler tage around some things. Maybe you should start a spoiler free thread?
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Moe.
Footballguy
Your tone is hilarious. I've read the books. I'm not even talking about people who have read the books posting spoilers in tags or whatever. Just the fake spoiler nonsense.
If you must post a fake spoiler, please use the spolier tags the same as if it were real. TIA.
Rick James
Footballguy
It's still stupid to post fake spoilers, because the non-book readers freak out and ask if it's real, then book readers have to say "no, that didn't happen"...which actually turns the whole thing INTO a spoiler, because now the non-book readers know that, for example, Jon Snow didn't fart the Others away, or whatever. If it's something ridiculous like that, then it's not a big deal...but people were posting realistic non-spoilers.
hotdogcollars
Footballguy
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