JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
She is literally lynched for carrying Oathkeeper
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HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
Swing 51
Footballguy
Well, halfway lynched before yelling (something) and then UndeadKat puts a stop to it. I don't recall, we haven't been told what Brienne yelled out right?
Sean
Footballguy
She is given the choice of noose or sword. Martin has said the word she says is "sword". I take it to mean her sword to kill Jamie vs being hanged.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I'm on a streak of forgetting today so just bare with me....
How do we know Undead Kat stopped her from hanging? Was that clarified?
How do we know she yelled sword?
How do we know Undead Kat stopped her from hanging? Was that clarified?
How do we know she yelled sword?
Swing 51
Footballguy
Sean
Footballguy
I think it was at a reading he did for WoW. He asked the audience if they knew what the word was. When someone guessed correctly he confirmed it.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
From the no book thread, someone's been paying attention:
Or does the imp name Oberin and then the crown names the Mountian?
[quote[aHe isn't going to fight, Jamie is as his champion (or at least I would assume so). Question is who represents the crown? The other kings guard dude?
Or does the imp name Oberin and then the crown names the Mountian?
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
#### this board. That was from NIU Kicker. Good call for a non-book reader.
non-book reader my ###
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Second guy in there actually calling the exact scenario re: Mountain v. Oberyn. Have they made it that obvious?
at least the second guy had the right reason, which could have been gotten from the show, the first guy had it backwards, so more likely he knew the outcome already. No way it would be Oberyn agreeing to fight unless he already knew the mountain would be the opponent.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Mister Martie
Footballguy
Man, Dinklage is awesome.
Yeah I could see making those connections based on the preview. And Oberyn raised his eyebrows when a Clegane came up in the small council meeting in case anyone had forgotten about that beef.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
pretty sure I saw a season 4 preview before the season started that showed those two going at each other. could be wrong though.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Mister Martie
Footballguy
Theon's rescue scene was ridiculously stupid. No idea why they even bothered with that.
I'd say its about the same as the book at this point - the kicker is when Tyrion finds her in his father's bed.
Kraft...
Footballguy
I think they are making her out as more of a victim in the show
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I'm fine with significant departures from the book and have no problem with what they've done on the show, other than the Theon / Reek story. It never was a central plotline in the books for me, but seems to be in the show - and to what end? Seems like a waste of budget and screentime. The geography made no sense - were they supposedly sailing from the Iron Islands then attacking the Dreadfort? I guess I've lost track of where Ramsey and Reek are if that's the case. Asha makes a big point of how Bolton has mutilated not only Theon, but has attacked all Ironborn, then just abandons the battle because "Theon is dead." And how do they attack a castle with a handful of men, easily get inside and down to the dungeon, then just run away and escape? Just very poorly conceived all around, and confusing to book reader and non-book reader alike.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I thought they made a mistake of using that again in the opener. I could be wrong (and its likely the case), but i thought his sister sailed from pyke awhile ago and now held moat caitlin. isn't that where roose bolton said that ramsay had to take back for torturing theon? I just figure now is going to use theon to try and do just that.
Kraft...
Footballguy
This is what I thought, she came from moat cailin. The escape was very confusing though. Doesn't seem to fit Ramsey's character to let someone got like that. Especially considering what he does when he does take moat cailin.
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Maybe its just book-confusion then. I don't recall Asha ever being in Moat Caillin and don't recall that being set up in the tv show. They've got to move her up to Deepwood, or make some significant re-writes.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
Asha was never at Moat Cailin in the novels. I think they are just doing this stuff so the viewer doesn't forget who Theon/Asha/Reek/Ramsay are.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I could be putting in stuff that is not there too. I thought roose said something about sending ramsay to take back moat caitlin from the iron born. if that is correct, I assumed that meant asha was there. again, I am not sure of any of this. seemed more logical than asha coming all the way from pyke to the dreadfort.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
You are correct, and the same happened in the book. They are setting that up - with Ramsay using Theon to coax the starving Ironborn crew at Moat Caillin to surrender peacefully, only to be flayed anyway. Asha's role in the whole thing is what is confusing - how she got there, why and how she is attacking the Dreadfort - the whole scene was confusing and seems pointless.
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
In the novels the Ironborn are holding Moat Cailin but they have been more or less abandoned because Euron wants Dany and doesn't care about the war Balon started. Euron doesn't want the North, he wants the world.
Ramsay uses Theon/Reek to convince the Ironborn to surrender - and then Ramsay kills all of them.
Asha is never at Moat Cailin. She starts off on the Iron Isles, takes Deepwood, sees Theon at Winterfell, goes back to Deepwood, goes back to the Iron Isles (for the Kingsmoot), goes back to Deepwood (to avoid her arranged marriage and Euron), gets captured by Stannis and is now sitting somewhere outside of Winterfell.
Ramsay uses Theon/Reek to convince the Ironborn to surrender - and then Ramsay kills all of them.
Asha is never at Moat Cailin. She starts off on the Iron Isles, takes Deepwood, sees Theon at Winterfell, goes back to Deepwood, goes back to the Iron Isles (for the Kingsmoot), goes back to Deepwood (to avoid her arranged marriage and Euron), gets captured by Stannis and is now sitting somewhere outside of Winterfell.
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The whole Yara and theon thing just seemed so forced and out of place. Like Ramsay would just let them leave?
strykerpks
Footballguy
So there's 4 episodes left right? There's still quite a few big events to get through yet, depending on where they are in the timeline at seasons end.
Lysa (looks like she might fly this week). Though I think they dropped the ball by already having her reveal the plot to kill Jon Arryn instead of having her do it as she's trying to kill Sansa. That chapter was just as intense as any of the other big events.
Arya/Hound
Arya to Braavos
Trial by Combat
Tyrion's escape (Tywin and Shae's murder)
Jorah's "betrayal" has to be coming soon since they talked about spies getting into Mereen at the council meeting.
The north timeline is interesting. Do they have enough time to have Tormund, Ygritte and Co. attack from the south, Mance attack from the north, Stannis joins to save them, elect Jon commander, etc?
I'm wondering how much of this stuff they save for next season so they don't piss everyone off when they introduce more of the Greyjoy and Dornish storylines
Lysa (looks like she might fly this week). Though I think they dropped the ball by already having her reveal the plot to kill Jon Arryn instead of having her do it as she's trying to kill Sansa. That chapter was just as intense as any of the other big events.
Arya/Hound
Arya to Braavos
Trial by Combat
Tyrion's escape (Tywin and Shae's murder)
Jorah's "betrayal" has to be coming soon since they talked about spies getting into Mereen at the council meeting.
The north timeline is interesting. Do they have enough time to have Tormund, Ygritte and Co. attack from the south, Mance attack from the north, Stannis joins to save them, elect Jon commander, etc?
I'm wondering how much of this stuff they save for next season so they don't piss everyone off when they introduce more of the Greyjoy and Dornish storylines
Redwes25
Footballguy
I bet the events at the wall get pushed to next season. Think they have enough good storyline to for 4 episodes.
Rick James
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Last 4 Episode names:
"Mockingbird"
Tyrion enlists an unlikely ally. Daario entreats Dany to allow him to do what he does best. Jon’s warnings about the Wall’s vulnerability fall on deaf ears. Brienne follows a new lead on the road with Pod.
"The Mountain and the Viper"
"The Watchers on the Wall"
"The Children"
"Mockingbird"
Tyrion enlists an unlikely ally. Daario entreats Dany to allow him to do what he does best. Jon’s warnings about the Wall’s vulnerability fall on deaf ears. Brienne follows a new lead on the road with Pod.
"The Mountain and the Viper"
"The Watchers on the Wall"
"The Children"
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
I read somewhere that the entire 9th episode "The Watchers on the Wall" will be the battle for the wall similar to Blackwater.
Redwes25
Footballguy
EYLive
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I will ask in here where it is less prickly:
shae - what turns her? was it solely tyrion yelling at her to go? did bronn sell him out too? did cercei just get to her before she sailed away?
don't remember this in the books.
shae - what turns her? was it solely tyrion yelling at her to go? did bronn sell him out too? did cercei just get to her before she sailed away?
don't remember this in the books.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
My recollection is that Shae and Bronn just sold out - gold, castles, etc. I don't think he sent Shae away to Braavos in the books, nor did they have the whole jealous of Sansa issue.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
so the scene with tyrion telling her to leave wasn't in the books, she just shows up at the trial?
parrot
Footballguy
Shea's testimony in the book.
“No sooner had Tyrion taken his place before the judges than another group of gold cloaks led in Shae.
A cold hand tightened round his heart. Varys betrayed her, he thought. Then he remembered. No. I betrayed her myself. I should have left her with Lollys. Of course they’d question Sansa’s maids, I’d do the same. Tyrion rubbed at the slick scar where his nose had been, wondering why Cersei had bothered. Shae knows nothing that can hurt me.
“They plotted it together,” she said, this girl he’d loved. “The Imp and Lady Sansa plotted it after the Young Wolf died. Sansa wanted revenge for her brother and Tyrion meant to have the throne. He was going to kill his sister next, and then his own lord father, so he could be Hand for Prince Tommen. But after a year or so, before Tommen got too old, he would have killed him too, so as to take the crown for his own head.”
“How could you know all this?” demanded Prince Oberyn. “Why would the Imp divulge such plans to his wife’s maid?”
“I overheard some, m’lord,” said Shae, “and m’lady let things slip too. But most I had “from his own lips. I wasn’t only Lady Sansa’s maid. I was his whore, all the time he was here in King’s Landing. On the morning of the wedding, he dragged me down where they keep the dragon skulls and ####ed me there with the monsters all around. And when I cried, he said I ought to be more grateful, that it wasn’t every girl who got to be the king’s whore. That was when he told me how he meant to be king. He said that poor boy Joffrey would never know his bride the way he was knowing me.” She started sobbing then. “I never meant to be a whore, m’lords. I was to be married. A squire, he was, and a good brave boy, gentle born. But the Imp saw me at the Green Fork and put the boy I meant to marry in the front rank of the van, and after he was killed he sent his wildlings to bring me to his tent. Shagga, the big one, and Timett with the burned eye. He said if I didn’t pleasure him, he’d give me to them, so I did. Then he brought me to the city, so I’d be close when he wanted me. He made me do such shameful things …”
Prince Oberyn looked curious. “What sorts of things?”
“Unspeakable things.” As the tears rolled slowly down that pretty face, no doubt every man in the hall wanted to take Shae in his arms and comfort her. “With my mouth and … other parts, m’lord. All my parts. He used me every way there was, and … he used to make me tell him how big he was. My giant, I had to call him, my giant of Lannister.”
Oswald Kettleblack was the first to laugh. Boros and Meryn joined in, then Cersei, Ser Loras, and more lords and ladies than he could count. The sudden gale of mirth made the rafters ring and shook the Iron Throne. “It’s true,” Shae protested. “My giant of Lannister.” The laughter swelled twice as loud. Their mouths were twisted in merriment, their bellies shook. Some laughed so hard that snot flew from their nostrils.
I saved you all, Tyrion thought. I saved this vile city and all your worthless lives. There were hundreds in the throne room, every one of them laughing but his father. Or so it seemed “Even the Red Viper chortled, and Mace Tyrell looked like to bust a gut, but Lord Tywin Lannister sat between them as if made of stone, his fingers steepled beneath his chin.
Tyrion pushed forward. “MY LORDS!” he shouted. He had to shout, to have any hope of being heard.
His father raised a hand. Bit by bit, the hall grew silent.
“Get this lying whore out of my sight,” said Tyrion, “and I will give you your confession.”
Lord Tywin nodded, gestured. Shae looked half in terror as the gold cloaks formed up around her. Her eyes met Tyrion’s as they marched her from the wall. Was it shame he saw there, or fear? He wondered what Cersei had promised her. You will get the gold or jewels, whatever it was you asked for, he thought as he watched her back recede, but before the moon has turned she’ll have you entertaining the gold cloaks in their barracks.
Tyrion stared up at his father’s hard green eyes with their flecks of cold bright gold. “Guilty,” he said, “so guilty. Is that what you wanted to hear?”
Lord Tywin said nothing. Mace Tyrell nodded. Prince Oberyn looked mildly disappointed “You admit you poisoned the king?”
“Nothing of the sort,” said Tyrion. “Of Joffrey’s death I am innocent. I am guilty of a more monstrous crime.” He took a step toward his father. “I was born. I lived. I am guilty of being a dwarf, I confess it. And no matter how many times my good father forgave me, I have persisted in my infamy.”
“This is folly, Tyrion,” declared Lord Tywin. “Speak to the matter at hand. You are not on trial for being a dwarf.”
“That is where you err, my lord. I have been on trial for being a dwarf my entire life.”
A cold hand tightened round his heart. Varys betrayed her, he thought. Then he remembered. No. I betrayed her myself. I should have left her with Lollys. Of course they’d question Sansa’s maids, I’d do the same. Tyrion rubbed at the slick scar where his nose had been, wondering why Cersei had bothered. Shae knows nothing that can hurt me.
“They plotted it together,” she said, this girl he’d loved. “The Imp and Lady Sansa plotted it after the Young Wolf died. Sansa wanted revenge for her brother and Tyrion meant to have the throne. He was going to kill his sister next, and then his own lord father, so he could be Hand for Prince Tommen. But after a year or so, before Tommen got too old, he would have killed him too, so as to take the crown for his own head.”
“How could you know all this?” demanded Prince Oberyn. “Why would the Imp divulge such plans to his wife’s maid?”
“I overheard some, m’lord,” said Shae, “and m’lady let things slip too. But most I had “from his own lips. I wasn’t only Lady Sansa’s maid. I was his whore, all the time he was here in King’s Landing. On the morning of the wedding, he dragged me down where they keep the dragon skulls and ####ed me there with the monsters all around. And when I cried, he said I ought to be more grateful, that it wasn’t every girl who got to be the king’s whore. That was when he told me how he meant to be king. He said that poor boy Joffrey would never know his bride the way he was knowing me.” She started sobbing then. “I never meant to be a whore, m’lords. I was to be married. A squire, he was, and a good brave boy, gentle born. But the Imp saw me at the Green Fork and put the boy I meant to marry in the front rank of the van, and after he was killed he sent his wildlings to bring me to his tent. Shagga, the big one, and Timett with the burned eye. He said if I didn’t pleasure him, he’d give me to them, so I did. Then he brought me to the city, so I’d be close when he wanted me. He made me do such shameful things …”
Prince Oberyn looked curious. “What sorts of things?”
“Unspeakable things.” As the tears rolled slowly down that pretty face, no doubt every man in the hall wanted to take Shae in his arms and comfort her. “With my mouth and … other parts, m’lord. All my parts. He used me every way there was, and … he used to make me tell him how big he was. My giant, I had to call him, my giant of Lannister.”
Oswald Kettleblack was the first to laugh. Boros and Meryn joined in, then Cersei, Ser Loras, and more lords and ladies than he could count. The sudden gale of mirth made the rafters ring and shook the Iron Throne. “It’s true,” Shae protested. “My giant of Lannister.” The laughter swelled twice as loud. Their mouths were twisted in merriment, their bellies shook. Some laughed so hard that snot flew from their nostrils.
I saved you all, Tyrion thought. I saved this vile city and all your worthless lives. There were hundreds in the throne room, every one of them laughing but his father. Or so it seemed “Even the Red Viper chortled, and Mace Tyrell looked like to bust a gut, but Lord Tywin Lannister sat between them as if made of stone, his fingers steepled beneath his chin.
Tyrion pushed forward. “MY LORDS!” he shouted. He had to shout, to have any hope of being heard.
His father raised a hand. Bit by bit, the hall grew silent.
“Get this lying whore out of my sight,” said Tyrion, “and I will give you your confession.”
Lord Tywin nodded, gestured. Shae looked half in terror as the gold cloaks formed up around her. Her eyes met Tyrion’s as they marched her from the wall. Was it shame he saw there, or fear? He wondered what Cersei had promised her. You will get the gold or jewels, whatever it was you asked for, he thought as he watched her back recede, but before the moon has turned she’ll have you entertaining the gold cloaks in their barracks.
Tyrion stared up at his father’s hard green eyes with their flecks of cold bright gold. “Guilty,” he said, “so guilty. Is that what you wanted to hear?”
Lord Tywin said nothing. Mace Tyrell nodded. Prince Oberyn looked mildly disappointed “You admit you poisoned the king?”
“Nothing of the sort,” said Tyrion. “Of Joffrey’s death I am innocent. I am guilty of a more monstrous crime.” He took a step toward his father. “I was born. I lived. I am guilty of being a dwarf, I confess it. And no matter how many times my good father forgave me, I have persisted in my infamy.”
“This is folly, Tyrion,” declared Lord Tywin. “Speak to the matter at hand. You are not on trial for being a dwarf.”
“That is where you err, my lord. I have been on trial for being a dwarf my entire life.”
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