So much for the reset.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
HC Bill Belichick (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter wiscstlatlmia
- Start date
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
The deathstar is operational. Names have been written down. Commencing acid rain retribution protocol....
karl.Racki
Footballguy
they firing him?
Boston
Footballguy
The BB era is coming to an end, but I cannot fathom them firing him during the season...he does not deserve that for all he has done, and it serves no short-term purpose as well as the whole staff is BB guys so what actually gets accomplished...that would be a very bad look for the Krafts but there is no way that they can have him come back next year...BB is 71 and he has more than left a legacy...I would really like to see him say screw it to Shula's record and retire after this year...he just doesn't have it anymore and it is time to look in the mirror and accept it.
Last edited:
ratbast
Footballguy
I agree. I’ve resisted but the last few weeks have clinched it for me. It’s time to relax Bill.
if they just signed him to a big multi year deal in the offseason, the answer is probably no.
certainly its possible. there are no cap implications by getting rid of him but it will cost a pretty penny to do so.
rockaction
Footballguy
I really don't think Bill the coach is the problem. It's Bill the GM. But that's the rub.
2-7 for real? I almost can't believe that.
2-7 for real? I almost can't believe that.
Boston
Footballguy
Going into the season I agreed with you...BB the GM was doing a horrible job but I still had faith in BB the HC...unfortunately BB the HC is slipping as well and it is pretty easy to see...the Pats always used to be the most disciplined team and excelled at the little things...now, that doesn't even happen anymore and you see it on a weekly basis...yesterday was a perfect example with the idiotic penalties on special teams during crunch time...the staff he has put together is just a collection of family, friends and yes men...while the roster is one of the worst in the NFL the days of BB coaching players up appear to be over...I really can't think of a player on this current roster that has been developed in a manner of what we are used to...it is time to move on from the BB era...it was an amazing run but it is over...the fact it lasted as long as it did is a miracle in today's NFL.
Last edited:
Agreed.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
3-way trade. Titans trade Vrabel to the Patriots. Patriots trade Bellichek to the Commies. Commies trade picks to the Titans who try to rebuild for Levis.
There's a list of guys, I'm not trying to specify. I'd like to hear who Pats fans would want or just to simply start anew
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Personally, I would ride or die with Belichick. Mac Jones is not the answer and now they have the draft capital to get a QB.
The Patriots were the laughingstock of the league their entire existence, except for when Bill Belichick turned them into something.
I’d let him coach until he doesn’t want to.
The Patriots were the laughingstock of the league their entire existence, except for when Bill Belichick turned them into something.
I’d let him coach until he doesn’t want to.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Agree with SM22 above. There's no indication he's not a good coach. He lost a long time star QB and didn't have a replacement in place. That's poor GM work, but not bad coaching. Give the guy a QB and I'm guessing he'll be back on the wins. I imagine he'd be awesome with Drake Maye. And his defenses stayed good for a long time.
Boston
Footballguy
*I would love to see BB retire but not sure that is in the cards...it is unfortunate but they 100% have to move on from him...you cannot let him go anywhere near the roster decisions this offseason...they will have a high pick, a potential new QB and a ton of cap space and the Pats need to bring in a GM that can lay down a solid foundation...if they screw-up this offseason they are in a world of trouble...I can't believe there is anyone who thinks he should have say in rebuilding this roster...that would be a disaster...he has definitely slipped as a HC and he will be 72 in April...it is time to move on from the BB era and to ask a GM to come in and leave BB in place as the HC makes absolutely no sense to me for many obvious reasons.
*No way on Josh McDaniels...he is not a HC.
*Vrabel's name gets thrown around a lot...it is kind of a middle-ground of bringing in a Patriot but not having direct ties to the unsuccessful BB coaching tree...not sure if it is realistic but if it is I would need to know what his plan for offense would be...I do not like how the Titans play offense in today's NFL...now if that is because they had Henry and did not have a legit franchise QB that is one thing but if that is his blueprint, I do not have any interest.
*The biggest question is Jerod Mayo...it is believed he signed an agreement with the Krafts to "most likely" become the HC after BB (no one knows 100% about this)...when this went down he stopped interviewing for HC jobs around the league...the issue is the Pats were in a far better place when this happened...Mayo is very popular and their D has performed well this year but after the disaster this year do you want to bring in someone from the current staff...if you do do you keep the same staff (and would he be comfortable firing his co-workers) and would a high-quality potential GM want to come here and not be able to pick his own HC...gotta believe the Krafts have already made a decision on this one way or another...I would really have to see everything else they do with the organization if they hire Mayo before I know how I feel about this...there is a big part of me that wants a total split from the BB era but Mayo has been in the building for a long time and the Krafts know how important this hire is so I could get onboard with it based on what else they do
*My guess is the BB/Pats split will be very amicable...after an amazing run it is time to move on and I think both sides know it...I hear the trade scenario thrown around but I think they keep things clean and don't push that...wherever BB goes it will only be for a few years and there is too much positive history between the parties to not have him be comfortable with the franchise in the future
*Overall I am far more concerned about the GM hire than the HC hire...this roster is awful and unless that changes it won't matter who the HC is
Tanner9919
Footballguy
the owner is cheap or shrewd depending on how you look at it.Paying BB an exorbitant fee to coach this lousy untalented team seems like fool's gold. let him walk pay Mayo 85% less to get the same 4 wins next season.
Penix Jr is going to look good on the Pats but will it be with BB or another coach? would you even play for NE if you were Penix Jr. ?? seems that team looks more and more like the Chargers with the flakey front office, bad hires for decades, etc. Pats bled a lot of talented coaching last few years.
Penix Jr is going to look good on the Pats but will it be with BB or another coach? would you even play for NE if you were Penix Jr. ?? seems that team looks more and more like the Chargers with the flakey front office, bad hires for decades, etc. Pats bled a lot of talented coaching last few years.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Coaching: Scarnecchia's retirement.
Front office: BB's unwllingness to let an independent GM do their job.
Back office: Ernie Adams' retirement.
Some of the other coaching turnover included good coordinators (McDaniels on offense, Patricia on defense) but nothing as meaningful as Scar going to the house.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Patriots have seen any number of coordinators, assistants, and front office staff leave to other franchises over the years. Think about all the teams that were stocked with former NE players and staff . . . LV, DET, MIA, TEN, HOU, and probably others I am forgetting. Ultimately, they had to replace some of these positions too many times and in too short a timeframe. As already discussed many times, most of their recent drafts have been poor, and most of their free agent signings have not worked out. I still think that if they want to start over, they need to start COMPLETELY over . . . don't bring in or promote anyone that worked with BB. I don't think Bill has forgotten how to coach, but I don't see him ceding GM duties to anyone else. This has been discussed on talk radio a bunch, and even if a GM added in different players, just to prove a point, Bill might not play them. Not sure bringing in a GM and leaving BB as HC would be a viable option.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't think hanging your hat on the argument that the Patriots have lost so many coaches, ergo they were bound to take a downturn is a good idea.
There hasn't been anybody in the Patriots' coaching tree that's gone on to do almost anything with another team. Bill O'Brien with Houston is the closest, and he got rid of 'Nuk and lost his team.
There's no there there.
There hasn't been anybody in the Patriots' coaching tree that's gone on to do almost anything with another team. Bill O'Brien with Houston is the closest, and he got rid of 'Nuk and lost his team.
There's no there there.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Patriots were a strong organization with the coaches they had in place. How they did elsewhere doesn't change that their departures were a net loss for NE. Between defections and retirements, things turned into BB and a bunch of guys that had roles they likely should never have been in. Those personnel losses certainly didn't help or improve the team or the situation. That's not excusing the poor drafting and free agent signings that the Patriots executed . . . BB will have to own that on his own.
Similarly, I hear arguments about how PLAYER X did on another team and therefore he would have done the same thing on NE. For example, DeAndre Hopkins having another 1,000-yard season in TEN doesn't mean he would have had level of production in NE. AJ Brown having back-to-back years of close to 1,500 yards doesn't mean he would have thrived in NE had they drafted him. Sure, either of those guys would have been better than what NE rolled out this year, but given who the Pats had throwing the ball and blocking, it's unlikely either of those players would have fared as well as they did elsewhere..
Boston
Footballguy
Story in the Boston Herald (pay-site) by Andrew Callahan (he does a very good overall job) and Doug Kyed (not that familiar with him) that goes into detail about the dysfunction with the Pats...as bad as you thought it was it's worse...Talk Radio running hard with it today...just can't see BB being back next year or why anyone would want him anywhere near that roster...time to move on...wish it ended differently but BB has no one else to blame but himself.
www.nbcsportsboston.com
www.barstoolsports.com
As someone who was banging the drum loudly about the need to upgrade the tackles (Trent Brown is such a dog and everyone knew it) and the O line overall (WR was beyond obvious) I was not surprised reading this:
Outside the front office, a few staffers privately pointed fingers back at decision-makers about the talent available. That is, save for Klemm, who confronted director of player personnel Matt Groh early in the season in a loud exchange that reverberated through the organization. Klemm, according to sources, didn’t feel heard, while some offensive veterans didn’t want to believe their eyes. …
The team’s pass protection ranks fifth-worst by Pro Football Focus grades and last by ESPN’s pass-block win rate, both down from 2022.
“We didn’t invest in the offensive line until the fourth round, didn’t take a receiver until the sixth,” a third source said. “How do we spend the first three picks on defense when tackle was the biggest problem on the team last year?”
Report details Patriots' eye-opening dysfunction amid lost season
A new report provides a detailed look at the dysfunction that played a role in Bill Belichick’s Patriots stumbling to their worst season in three decades.
www.nbcsportsboston.com
'The Staff Dynamic is Completely F*cked': Days Before Belichick's Fate Will Be Decided, Anonymous Patriots Sources are Mercilessly Stabbing Him in the Back
CJ GUNTHER. Shutterstock Images.As hard as this is to wrap your brain around, in as little as four days, we may come to the end of the journey that sort of began exactly 24 years ago today. That was ...
As someone who was banging the drum loudly about the need to upgrade the tackles (Trent Brown is such a dog and everyone knew it) and the O line overall (WR was beyond obvious) I was not surprised reading this:
Outside the front office, a few staffers privately pointed fingers back at decision-makers about the talent available. That is, save for Klemm, who confronted director of player personnel Matt Groh early in the season in a loud exchange that reverberated through the organization. Klemm, according to sources, didn’t feel heard, while some offensive veterans didn’t want to believe their eyes. …
The team’s pass protection ranks fifth-worst by Pro Football Focus grades and last by ESPN’s pass-block win rate, both down from 2022.
“We didn’t invest in the offensive line until the fourth round, didn’t take a receiver until the sixth,” a third source said. “How do we spend the first three picks on defense when tackle was the biggest problem on the team last year?”
rockaction
Footballguy
Wow, do the Red Sox and Patriots ever stink.
I say that as a lifelong Sox fan (well, I liked both the Yankees and Red Sox when I was five and subsequently chose the Sox).
But man, do they stink like microwaved fish.
I say that as a lifelong Sox fan (well, I liked both the Yankees and Red Sox when I was five and subsequently chose the Sox).
But man, do they stink like microwaved fish.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
All jokes and salty homerism aside, he's obviously an all-timer who deserves all the praise he's gotten. But he lucked out with Brady, and he's a legitimately terrible GM. If the Chargers were in the NFC, I'd love to see what he could do with a guy like Herbert, but since the Chargers are in the AFC I'd rather that he just retire. And at his age, it may not matter anyway.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I don't think the 2024 version of Belichick is the guy you want rebuilding around a top-5 rookie QB. He won't be around for that guy's second contract.
rockaction
Footballguy
Especially since so much of quarterbacking is psychological and Belichick and his cohorts come from the break until don't bend strategy with guys' psyches.
Last edited:
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There have been 39 different NE players that were selected to the Pro Bowl under BB. They didn't just wonder into the stadium and sign there. BB admittedly hasn't been a great personnel manager recently, but he built teams that won. Brady didn't win all on his own.
There's no defending their recent draft record, but there were a few guys that were worthy of contract extensions and they just didn't want to pay them . . . Jimmy G, Joe Thuney, and Damien Harris were productive players. They also hit on a lot of guys in the 4th round or later in that time . . . James White, Trey Flowers, Shaq Mason, Ted Karras, Deatrich Wise, Ja'Whaun Bentley, Michael Onwenu, Rhamondre Stevenson, Demario Douglas, and UDFAs like J.C. Jackson, Jakobi Meyers. David Andrews, and Malcolm Butler. Yes, the early picks bombed out, but they still found some solid contributors.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
"Recently" is the key word here. I get that you're a homer on this topic, but come on. You can see the state of this roster just like the rest of us.
rockaction
Footballguy
Said almost no contender ever.
That Jakobi Meyers jumps out at me from that list really says something. And then when they miraculously hit on a very talented UDFA, the fact that they didn't even want to match Vegas's offer tells me a lot about their evaluation skills.
Boston
Footballguy
It wasn't just that they didn't match a very reasonable contract for Meyers but they then went out a signed a coming off of a knee injury JuJu for close to the same deal than somehow felt the need to screw around with Devante Parker's contract for no reason at all...yuck...you don't get bad by accident...BB the GM has been an abysmal failure for quite a while now...for such a brilliant guy it is amazing how bad some of the decisions have been.
rockaction
Footballguy
That really smarts.
rockaction
Footballguy
It's okay, though. We signed Allen Lazard to a—get this—$44 million deal to be Rodgers's caddy on off days.
Truly, the Jets' and the Patriots' decision-making, stemming from whatever and whoever, is terrible.
Truly, the Jets' and the Patriots' decision-making, stemming from whatever and whoever, is terrible.
Boston
Footballguy
Juju-29-260-1
Jakobi-68-746-7
Jakobi was a homegrown talent with leadership qualities that was well-liked by his teammates...word is he may have rubbed BB the wrong way and that was that but no doubt it was an awful decision.
NFL notes: Why the Patriots let reliable receiver Jakobi Meyers walk and what went wrong
Days before free agency opened last March, Jakobi Meyers found himself stuck in the NFL’s version of the friend zone. Front-office evaluators viewed the ex-Patriot as good, not great. Solid, …
www.bostonherald.com
Even beyond the homegrown angle, anyone who had watched the 2 WRs over the last few years knew Meyers was clearly the better WR.
Juju-29-260-1
Jakobi-68-746-7
Jakobi was a homegrown talent with leadership qualities that was well-liked by his teammates...word is he may have rubbed BB the wrong way and that was that but no doubt it was an awful decision.
NFL notes: Why the Patriots let reliable receiver Jakobi Meyers walk and what went wrong
Days before free agency opened last March, Jakobi Meyers found himself stuck in the NFL’s version of the friend zone. Front-office evaluators viewed the ex-Patriot as good, not great. Solid, …
I almost wonder if Meyers was being punished for that ill-fated lateral against the Raiders in 2022. Like he was gone as soon as that play happened.
Boston
Footballguy
Even beyond the homegrown angle, anyone who had watched the 2 WRs over the last few years knew Meyers was clearly the better WR.
Juju-29-260-1
Jakobi-68-746-7
Jakobi was a homegrown talent with leadership qualities that was well-liked by his teammates...word is he may have rubbed BB the wrong way and that was that but no doubt it was an awful decision.
NFL notes: Why the Patriots let reliable receiver Jakobi Meyers walk and what went wrong
Days before free agency opened last March, Jakobi Meyers found himself stuck in the NFL’s version of the friend zone. Front-office evaluators viewed the ex-Patriot as good, not great. Solid, …
I almost wonder if Meyers was being punished for that ill-fated lateral against the Raiders in 2022. Like he was gone as soon as that play happened.
The rumor locally was he was on Team Mac in 2022 when it was Mac v. Patricia and that did not sit well with BB.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Obviously, it would have been better if NE kept Meyers instead of signing JJSS. But Meyers’ numbers other than TD are lower in LV than they were in NE. Given the issues the Pats had, it’s unlikely Meyers would have had a big impact. Yes, he would have been better than JuJu, but he wouldn’t have gotten the offense out of the doldrums they had. Jakobi had a few highlight reel catches, but overall, his numbers were only ok (43rd in receiving yards). IMO, NE should have passed on both JuJu and Jakobi and ponied up the money for a legit WR1.
rockaction
Footballguy
This can be explained away easily by alpha Davante Adams.
It's grasping at straws here that you're doing. They lost an effective receiver and paid an ineffective one the same amount. It's not good business.
Boston
Footballguy
Also, they have had 3 different QBs this year...none of which will be confused with Mahomes, Allen or Burrow...Meyers is not elite but he is a very solid, reliable, quarterback-friendly WR and was paid accordingly (i.e. he was not overpaid)...the Pats are a team devoid of offensive talent and the decision to let him walk and replace him with Juju was another in a long line of awful roster decisions by BB.
need2know
Footballguy
if i was the owner, he would have to shed the gm role and any offensive responsibilites to keep his job. but even that said, i would probably let him walk
he benefitted greatly from having the weakest division in the nfl for 20 years and the best qb of all time.
his time is over.
he benefitted greatly from having the weakest division in the nfl for 20 years and the best qb of all time.
his time is over.
