HC Bill Belichick, (3 Viewers)

[Big Nate]

How many wins away is BB from having the most career wins? 15? 17?
I know he was getting close and within 2 seasons.

All the success BB had....albeit with Brady leading a lot of it (right?) for me screams that BB should have gotten some more leash. Yes, some poor draft picks, yes, bombed on qb Mac Jones, and yes, they couldn't ever find a wr. But I would think a guy that coached 24 years and delivered all those titles, and was possibly within 2 years of having the most career wins,....you give him that latitude....right? As an owner, wouldn't you want to hitch that honor to your franchise? I would.

Maybe not. Kraft is still the same guy who made the strip parlor scandal go away and no one seems to talk about it anymore. I am sure as heck Kraft blackballed BB, and that's an effing shame

I 100% believe Billy B gets the blame for Mac Jones failing. He never surrounded Jones with any talent (the worst receivers in the league) and then hires a d-coordinator to run the offense.

Jones had nothing to work with. Swap Jones and Purdy and its a different story. Jones could have had success had he fallen into a coaching staff that was competent and actually had weapons. If Jones had Kittle, CMC, Deebo and Aiyuk do you think this is a different situation? Jones had a decent rookie year and then he was thrown to the wolves his second year and Billy B gets the blame.

 

[Big Nate]

Mac Jones (I don't think Cam Newton) was the unlucky soul that had to replace Brady. Before he was even drafted, that poor guy was destined to not be good enough. Now Jerrod Mayo is kind of in that same boat.

NE did not do Mac any favors by having a new OC every season he was there. They also really didn't bring in any help on offense that moved the needle at all. That being said, Jones didn't help his cause any. He got a reputation of not being that receptive to coaching, wanting to have a much bigger voice than he had earned, being difficult to work with, and being a whiner and cry baby.

Imagine being a QB at the highest level and they give you a defensive coordinator as your coach. Yeah I'd be pissed to. They basically destroyed Jones. They never gave him a chance.

 

[Joe Schmo]

This reminds my foggy memory of Tom Landry being let go in Dallas. He wasn't ready to leave but he was no longer winning with the the talent on the team and a total rebuild was in store once JJ bought the team. Sometimes people need to be walked to the door because they won't leave of their own accord and in both Landry's and BB's case I believe this to be so and I also would be leery of hiring a 73 year old as my head coach as I don't see how you can grow the organization for the future. I suppose you could strike lightning and get some kind of Brady miracle and win a SB in two seasons but I wouldn't count on that.

 

[Anarchy99]

I also would be leery of hiring a 73 year old as my head coach as I don't see how you can grow the organization for the future.

I agree that the popular opinion would be that a coach in his 70s is too old and won't have much longevity. But how many coaches make it even 3 seasons with a team these days? Looking at the past 5 seasons, DET, IND, and NYG have had 3 head coaches. ATL, DEN, JAX, LAC, LVR, and WAS have had 4. HOU has had 5 . . . and CAR has had 7. Teams are looking for the next big thing and the next young super coach, but that hardly ever materializes. I've posted many times that it is nearly impossible for a new coach to come in and turn an organization around in the timeline that ownership expects to see tangible results. Making so many coaching changes actually has the opposite effect . . . QBs undergoing multiple OC and HC changes don't do better, they do worse. Some day owners will understand they need to give a coach and a staff 5 years to assess how things are going, not 1 or 2.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I also would be leery of hiring a 73 year old as my head coach as I don't see how you can grow the organization for the future.

I agree that the popular opinion would be that a coach in his 70s is too old and won't have much longevity. But how many coaches make it even 3 seasons with a team these days? Looking at the past 5 seasons, DET, IND, and NYG have had 3 head coaches. ATL, DEN, JAX, LAC, LVR, and WAS have had 4. HOU has had 5 . . . and CAR has had 7. Teams are looking for the next big thing and the next young super coach, but that hardly ever materializes. I've posted many times that it is nearly impossible for a new coach to come in and turn an organization around in the timeline that ownership expects to see tangible results. Making so many coaching changes actually has the opposite effect . . . QBs undergoing multiple OC and HC changes don't do better, they do worse. Some day owners will understand they need to give a coach and a staff 5 years to assess how things are going, not 1 or 2.

I hear you and think this bolsters the case for not hiring a potentially passed by 73 year old coach. If you're trying to find that One guy who can turn your franchise around you're only putting off the quest with the stop gap septuagenarian. Better to keep looking and hope you choose the right young guy. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, SF are all in good shape and it looks like Hou and GB will be ok so hiring young does work and beats retreads especially old as dirt ones.

 

[Gatorade]

At least Kraft has enough sense to keep BB thru their winning ways. Unlike Jerry Jones dumping Jimmy Johnson at the peak of their run.

 

[Anarchy99]

I hear you and think this bolsters the case for not hiring a potentially passed by 73 year old coach. If you're trying to find that One guy who can turn your franchise around you're only putting off the quest with the stop gap septuagenarian. Better to keep looking and hope you choose the right young guy. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, SF are all in good shape and it looks like Hou and GB will be ok so hiring young does work and beats retreads especially old as dirt ones.

What I find odd is the desire for teams to go grab younger unproven coaches. Let's look at the history of SB winning teams and then the coaching landscape heading into the 2024 season.

Of the past 25 SB winning teams . . .

- 1 had a coach in his 70s (Arians - TB)
- 10 had coaches in their 60s (Reid x3 - KC, BB x3 - NE, Coughlin x 2 - NYG, Carroll - SEA, Vermeil - STL)
- 5 had coaches in their 50s (BB x2 - NE, Kubiak - DEN, Harbaugh - BAL, Dungy - IND
- 6 had coaches 45-49 (Pederson - PHI, McCarthy - GB, Payton - NO, Cower - PIT, BB - NE, Billick - BAL)
- 3 had coaches under 40 (McVay - LAR, Tomlin - PIT, Gruden - TB)

Looking at the current crop of 32 coaches . . .

- There are 11 that are 51 or older: Reid 66 (3SB), John Harbaugh 61 (SB), McCarthy 60 (SB), Payton 60 (SB), Bowles (60), Jim Harbaugh (Lost SB), Pederson 56 (SB), Quinn 53 (Lost SB), Eberflus 53, Allen 51. This group accounted for 7 SB wins (and 2 others that lost in the SB).
- That leaves 21 other head coaches. The only one that's won a SB was McVay.

Who wins Super Bowls? Old coaches. Since 2011, the average age of the winning coach in the SB was 59. That could be merely a coincidence, as coaches don't take snaps and make plays. Their rosters were usually better than other teams or their opponents. But maybe there is more to winning than just having a talented roster, and maybe coaching experience matters more than we give credit for.

 

[massraider]

I hear you and think this bolsters the case for not hiring a potentially passed by 73 year old coach. If you're trying to find that One guy who can turn your franchise around you're only putting off the quest with the stop gap septuagenarian. Better to keep looking and hope you choose the right young guy. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, SF are all in good shape and it looks like Hou and GB will be ok so hiring young does work and beats retreads especially old as dirt ones.

What I find odd is the desire for teams to go grab younger unproven coaches. Let's look at the history of SB winning teams and then the coaching landscape heading into the 2024 season.

Of the past 25 SB winning teams . . .

- 1 had a coach in his 70s (Arians - TB)
- 10 had coaches in their 60s (Reid x3 - KC, BB x3 - NE, Coughlin x 2 - NYG, Carroll - SEA, Vermeil - STL)
- 5 had coaches in their 50s (BB x2 - NE, Kubiak - DEN, Harbaugh - BAL, Dungy - IND
- 6 had coaches 45-49 (Pederson - PHI, McCarthy - GB, Payton - NO, Cower - PIT, BB - NE, Billick - BAL)
- 3 had coaches under 40 (McVay - LAR, Tomlin - PIT, Gruden - TB)

Looking at the current crop of 32 coaches . . .

- There are 11 that are 51 or older: Reid 66 (3SB), John Harbaugh 61 (SB), McCarthy 60 (SB), Payton 60 (SB), Bowles (60), Jim Harbaugh (Lost SB), Pederson 56 (SB), Quinn 53 (Lost SB), Eberflus 53, Allen 51. This group accounted for 7 SB wins (and 2 others that lost in the SB).
- That leaves 21 other head coaches. The only one that's won a SB was McVay.

Who wins Super Bowls? Old coaches. Since 2011, the average age of the winning coach in the SB was 59. That could be merely a coincidence, as coaches don't take snaps and make plays. Their rosters were usually better than other teams or their opponents. But maybe there is more to winning than just having a talented roster, and maybe coaching experience matters more than we give credit for.

This looks like a good argument for not hiring coaches in their 70s.

Coaches in their 50s: Not the same as coaches in their 70s.

 

[Anarchy99]

This looks like a good argument for not hiring coaches in their 70s.

Coaches in their 50s: Not the same as coaches in their 70s.

I wasn't making a case for any particular age demographic. That being said, most coaches don't coach into their 70s because they retire. I'm pretty sure the Chiefs will still be good in a few years when Andy Reid hits 70. I'm pretty sure BB would have be winning with Mahomes at QB too. But so would a lot of other coaches, whether they were 35 or 75. I think a lot of SB winning teams had older coaches as passengers. I think many younger coaches may make more mistakes, so they may hurt their teams. But it's the players that have to execute on the field.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I hear you and think this bolsters the case for not hiring a potentially passed by 73 year old coach. If you're trying to find that One guy who can turn your franchise around you're only putting off the quest with the stop gap septuagenarian. Better to keep looking and hope you choose the right young guy. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, SF are all in good shape and it looks like Hou and GB will be ok so hiring young does work and beats retreads especially old as dirt ones.

What I find odd is the desire for teams to go grab younger unproven coaches. Let's look at the history of SB winning teams and then the coaching landscape heading into the 2024 season.

Of the past 25 SB winning teams . . .

- 1 had a coach in his 70s (Arians - TB)
- 10 had coaches in their 60s (Reid x3 - KC, BB x3 - NE, Coughlin x 2 - NYG, Carroll - SEA, Vermeil - STL)
- 5 had coaches in their 50s (BB x2 - NE, Kubiak - DEN, Harbaugh - BAL, Dungy - IND
- 6 had coaches 45-49 (Pederson - PHI, McCarthy - GB, Payton - NO, Cower - PIT, BB - NE, Billick - BAL)
- 3 had coaches under 40 (McVay - LAR, Tomlin - PIT, Gruden - TB)

Looking at the current crop of 32 coaches . . .

- There are 11 that are 51 or older: Reid 66 (3SB), John Harbaugh 61 (SB), McCarthy 60 (SB), Payton 60 (SB), Bowles (60), Jim Harbaugh (Lost SB), Pederson 56 (SB), Quinn 53 (Lost SB), Eberflus 53, Allen 51. This group accounted for 7 SB wins (and 2 others that lost in the SB).
- That leaves 21 other head coaches. The only one that's won a SB was McVay.

Who wins Super Bowls? Old coaches. Since 2011, the average age of the winning coach in the SB was 59. That could be merely a coincidence, as coaches don't take snaps and make plays. Their rosters were usually better than other teams or their opponents. But maybe there is more to winning than just having a talented roster, and maybe coaching experience matters more than we give credit for.

This looks like a good argument for not hiring coaches in their 70s.

Coaches in their 50s: Not the same as coaches in their 70s.

maybe not. need to calculate the percentage of SB winners versus total in each age bin. how many coaches have there been that coached into their 70s? (honestly don't know / too lazy to look).

 

[massraider]

This looks like a good argument for not hiring coaches in their 70s.

Coaches in their 50s: Not the same as coaches in their 70s.

I wasn't making a case for any particular age demographic. That being said, most coaches don't coach into their 70s because they retire. I'm pretty sure the Chiefs will still be good in a few years when Andy Reid hits 70. I'm pretty sure BB would have be winning with Mahomes at QB too. But so would a lot of other coaches, whether they were 35 or 75. I think a lot of SB winning teams had older coaches as passengers. I think many younger coaches may make more mistakes, so they may hurt their teams. But it's the players that have to execute on the field.

I am very much in agreement that this fascination with young coaches is silly.

But 70 years old is 70 years old.

 

[Anarchy99]

I am very much in agreement that this fascination with young coaches is silly.

But 70 years old is 70 years old.

Again, I am not advocating for or against coaches that are at retirement age (or for or against a team signing BB for that matter). But Bill has been in the league for 49 seasons. There are 20 head coaches that haven't been on the planet that long. Who knows the rationale as to who would want him or not want him. I'm guessing he could still coach.

 

[massraider]

I am very much in agreement that this fascination with young coaches is silly.

But 70 years old is 70 years old.

Again, I am not advocating for or against coaches that are at retirement age (or for or against a team signing BB for that matter). But Bill has been in the league for 49 seasons. There are 20 head coaches that haven't been on the planet that long. Who knows the rationale as to who would want him or not want him. I'm guessing he could still coach.

You lumped in coaches in their 50s with coaches in their 70s

 

[Joe Schmo]

50 is not 70, 50 is prime management age. Good combo of agility and experience and still able to relate to the players. 70 is just old. I see it here in my office and I see it on the football sidleines.

 

[Anarchy99]

You lumped in coaches in their 50s with coaches in their 70s.

The discussion was mostly about teams wanting to sign younger, unproven coaches, and I pointed out that older / more experienced coaches have usually been the ones winning titles. I drew the line in the sand at under 50 or over 50. If we want to redraw line at 60 instead of 50, coaches in their 60s have recently won more titles than younger coaches. As already indicated, there haven't been many coaches in their 70s because they don't want to coach that long, and most coaches don't win enough to coach that long.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Actually the discussion centered around whether a 73 year old would be a better hire than someone younger than 70 and so far I think that is the case.

 

[Joe Schmo]

If starting a new coaching regime for a team I'd rather 40-60 than either 30-39 or 60 and up.

 

[Anarchy99]

50 is not 70, 50 is prime management age. Good combo of agility and experience and still able to relate to the players. 70 is just old. I see it here in my office and I see it on the football sidleines.

Andy Reid is 66. If he decides to keep coaching, in 4 years (assuming KC still has Mahomes), do you think the Chiefs are going to suddenly fall apart and be less competitive with Reid as HC?

 

[Joe Schmo]

If Andy Reid goes to the Browns and starts over I do not expect the same level of success he's had. Currently the Chiefs are still youngish and Reids system is ingrained as he has been there 15years. One day the game will pass him by just like it did for Brown, Knoll, Shula, Landry and BB.

 

[Joe Schmo]

And one offs don't change my mind on hiring a new coach for my team. I would not hire Andy Reid or BB if looking to get new coach. I would snap up Tomlin or Shnahan in a hearbeat.

 

[massraider]

If Andy Reid goes to the Browns and starts over I do not expect the same level of success he's had. Currently the Chiefs are still youngish and Reids system is ingrained as he has been there 15years. One day the game will pass him by just like it did for Brown, Knoll, Shula, Landry and BB.

Right around when Mahomes moves on, I reckon

 

[TwinTurbo]

How many wins away is BB from having the most career wins? 15? 17?
I know he was getting close and within 2 seasons.

All the success BB had....albeit with Brady leading a lot of it (right?) for me screams that BB should have gotten some more leash. Yes, some poor draft picks, yes, bombed on qb Mac Jones, and yes, they couldn't ever find a wr. But I would think a guy that coached 24 years and delivered all those titles, and was possibly within 2 years of having the most career wins,....you give him that latitude....right? As an owner, wouldn't you want to hitch that honor to your franchise? I would.

Maybe not. Kraft is still the same guy who made the strip parlor scandal go away and no one seems to talk about it anymore. I am sure as heck Kraft blackballed BB, and that's an effing shame

I 100% believe Billy B gets the blame for Mac Jones failing. He never surrounded Jones with any talent (the worst receivers in the league) and then hires a d-coordinator to run the offense.

Jones had nothing to work with. Swap Jones and Purdy and its a different story. Jones could have had success had he fallen into a coaching staff that was competent and actually had weapons. If Jones had Kittle, CMC, Deebo and Aiyuk do you think this is a different situation? Jones had a decent rookie year and then he was thrown to the wolves his second year and Billy B gets the blame.

Jones doesn't seem like he can process information quickly enough. It's not just WR. He can't make the correct decisions at the speed required, simple as that.

 

[Anarchy99]

If Andy Reid goes to the Browns and starts over I do not expect the same level of success he's had. Currently the Chiefs are still youngish and Reids system is ingrained as he has been there 15years. One day the game will pass him by just like it did for Brown, Knoll, Shula, Landry and BB.

Suppose there was a franchise that has had a decent regular season record the past few years, a good roster, and a decent QB but just hasn't been able to do much in the playoffs. And suppose their coach retired / quit / was fired / won a $1B Powerball. For example, DAL, BUF, GB, PHI, or MIA. The owner says this is our time, we need to win NOW. Let's hypothetically say one of those teams needs a HC for 2025. Tomlin, Shanahan, and McVay aren't available. Would the owner of said franchise lose BB's phone number and not even call him?

 

[Joe Schmo]

If Andy Reid goes to the Browns and starts over I do not expect the same level of success he's had. Currently the Chiefs are still youngish and Reids system is ingrained as he has been there 15years. One day the game will pass him by just like it did for Brown, Knoll, Shula, Landry and BB.

Suppose there was a franchise that has had a decent regular season record the past few years, a good roster, and a decent QB but just hasn't been able to do much in the playoffs. And suppose their coach retired / quit / was fired / won a $1B Powerball. For example, DAL, BUF, GB, PHI, or MIA. The owner says this is our time, we need to win NOW. Let's hypothetically say one of those teams needs a HC for 2025. Tomlin, Shanahan, and McVay aren't available. Would the owner of said franchise lose BB's phone number and not even call him?

I myself would not be interested in BB as it is clear he will want to remake the team in his image and that will require his own new dc/oc /asisstants , that would change the philosophies of the offense and defense and to me that means no SB in year one so it will be a multiyear challenge. As I said above, I'm not interested in old BB for my team, I'll take my chances on finding the next McVay, DeMeco Ryans or Matt LaFluer.

 

[massraider]

The Meathead Media Investgation Team over at Pat McAfee don't buy the ESPN story either

Link

 

[Big Nate]

How many wins away is BB from having the most career wins? 15? 17?
I know he was getting close and within 2 seasons.

All the success BB had....albeit with Brady leading a lot of it (right?) for me screams that BB should have gotten some more leash. Yes, some poor draft picks, yes, bombed on qb Mac Jones, and yes, they couldn't ever find a wr. But I would think a guy that coached 24 years and delivered all those titles, and was possibly within 2 years of having the most career wins,....you give him that latitude....right? As an owner, wouldn't you want to hitch that honor to your franchise? I would.

Maybe not. Kraft is still the same guy who made the strip parlor scandal go away and no one seems to talk about it anymore. I am sure as heck Kraft blackballed BB, and that's an effing shame

I 100% believe Billy B gets the blame for Mac Jones failing. He never surrounded Jones with any talent (the worst receivers in the league) and then hires a d-coordinator to run the offense.

Jones had nothing to work with. Swap Jones and Purdy and its a different story. Jones could have had success had he fallen into a coaching staff that was competent and actually had weapons. If Jones had Kittle, CMC, Deebo and Aiyuk do you think this is a different situation? Jones had a decent rookie year and then he was thrown to the wolves his second year and Billy B gets the blame.

Jones doesn't seem like he can process information quickly enough. It's not just WR. He can't make the correct decisions at the speed required, simple as that.

Maybe true, but he was never given a chance. The crappy receivers not getting open didn't help. Year one showed promise, then they ruined him with no OC. He was never given a shot to succeed. Never put in a position to succeed. That is on Billy B.

 

[Anarchy99]

Maybe true, but he was never given a chance. The crappy receivers not getting open didn't help. Year one showed promise, then they ruined him with no OC. He was never given a shot to succeed. Never put in a position to succeed. That is on Billy B.

Even though I quoted you, I am replying to folks in general that have said BB didn't do anything to try to boost the offense. Looking across the past 5 years (so Brady's last year, Cam, then Mac at QB):

RB:
Drafted Damien Harris, Rhamondre Stevenson, Pierre Strong, Kevin Harris
Signed Brandon Bolden, Jakob Johnson, J.J. Taylor, Ty Montgomery, Ezekiel Elliott

WR:
Drafted N'Keal Harry, Tre Nixon, Tyquan Thornton, Kayson Boutte, Demario Douglas
Signed Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, Jakobi Meyers, Donte Moncrief, Damiere Byrd, Kendrick Bourne, Nelson Agholor, JuJu Smith-Schuster, and Jalen Reagor
Traded for Mohamad Sanu, DeVante Parker

TE:
Drafted Devin Asiasi, Dalton Keene
Signed Ben Watson, Matt Lacosse, Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith, Mike Gesicki, Pharaoh Brown

OL:
Drafted Yodny Cajuste, Hjalte Froholdt, Michael Onwenu, Justin Herron, Dustin Woodard, Will Sherman, Cole Strange, Chasen Hines, Andrew Steuber, Jake Andrews, Sidy Sow, Atonio Mafi
Signed Ted Karras, Marcus Cannon, Marshall Newhouse, Marcus Martin, Conor McDermott, Bill Murray, Calvin Anderson,
Traded for Jermaine Eluemunor, Korey Cunningham, Yasir Durant, Trent Brown, Vederian Lowe, Riley Reiff, Tyrone Wheatley

OK, for people asking "What's you're point?" BB was constantly tinkering with the roster and adding pieces. Some were bigger moves than others, but the cold hard reality is almost all of these transactions cratered and didn't work out. Most of the draft picks didn't pan out. I know the buck stops with the head coach, but does any accountability fall on the players? How about ownership if they didn't want to shell out a lot of money?

So far, the new regime has brought in RB Antonio Gibson, WR K.J. Osborn, TE Austin Hooper, and OL guys Chukwuma Okorafor and Nick Leverett to help fix the offense. Given the treasure trove of cap dollars they had, those are relatively minor signings. For a team looking to make a major reboot and rebuild, they've been very quiet. They'll have some new faces after next week, but they really haven't been very active so far after hanging out the UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT sign out in front of the stadium.

 

[Big Nate]

Maybe true, but he was never given a chance. The crappy receivers not getting open didn't help. Year one showed promise, then they ruined him with no OC. He was never given a shot to succeed. Never put in a position to succeed. That is on Billy B.

Even though I quoted you, I am replying to folks in general that have said BB didn't do anything to try to boost the offense. Looking across the past 5 years (so Brady's last year, Cam, then Mac at QB):

RB:
Drafted Damien Harris, Rhamondre Stevenson, Pierre Strong, Kevin Harris
Signed Brandon Bolden, Jakob Johnson, J.J. Taylor, Ty Montgomery, Ezekiel Elliott

WR:
Drafted N'Keal Harry, Tre Nixon, Tyquan Thornton, Kayson Boutte, Demario Douglas
Signed Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, Jakobi Meyers, Donte Moncrief, Damiere Byrd, Kendrick Bourne, Nelson Agholor, JuJu Smith-Schuster, and Jalen Reagor
Traded for Mohamad Sanu, DeVante Parker

TE:
Drafted Devin Asiasi, Dalton Keene
Signed Ben Watson, Matt Lacosse, Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith, Mike Gesicki, Pharaoh Brown

OL:
Drafted Yodny Cajuste, Hjalte Froholdt, Michael Onwenu, Justin Herron, Dustin Woodard, Will Sherman, Cole Strange, Chasen Hines, Andrew Steuber, Jake Andrews, Sidy Sow, Atonio Mafi
Signed Ted Karras, Marcus Cannon, Marshall Newhouse, Marcus Martin, Conor McDermott, Bill Murray, Calvin Anderson,
Traded for Jermaine Eluemunor, Korey Cunningham, Yasir Durant, Trent Brown, Vederian Lowe, Riley Reiff, Tyrone Wheatley

OK, for people asking "What's you're point?" BB was constantly tinkering with the roster and adding pieces. Some were bigger moves than others, but the cold hard reality is almost all of these transactions cratered and didn't work out. Most of the draft picks didn't pan out. I know the buck stops with the head coach, but does any accountability fall on the players? How about ownership if they didn't want to shell out a lot of money?

So far, the new regime has brought in RB Antonio Gibson, WR K.J. Osborn, TE Austin Hooper, and OL guys Chukwuma Okorafor and Nick Leverett to help fix the offense. Given the treasure trove of cap dollars they had, those are relatively minor signings. For a team looking to make a major reboot and rebuild, they've been very quiet. They'll have some new faces after next week, but they really haven't been very active so far after hanging out the UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT sign out in front of the stadium.

Wow, I do appreciate the full list of guys there, that must have taken some time to put together.

Looking it over its really gross.

 

[Boston]

Maybe true, but he was never given a chance. The crappy receivers not getting open didn't help. Year one showed promise, then they ruined him with no OC. He was never given a shot to succeed. Never put in a position to succeed. That is on Billy B.

Even though I quoted you, I am replying to folks in general that have said BB didn't do anything to try to boost the offense. Looking across the past 5 years (so Brady's last year, Cam, then Mac at QB):

RB:
Drafted Damien Harris, Rhamondre Stevenson, Pierre Strong, Kevin Harris
Signed Brandon Bolden, Jakob Johnson, J.J. Taylor, Ty Montgomery, Ezekiel Elliott

WR:
Drafted N'Keal Harry, Tre Nixon, Tyquan Thornton, Kayson Boutte, Demario Douglas
Signed Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, Jakobi Meyers, Donte Moncrief, Damiere Byrd, Kendrick Bourne, Nelson Agholor, JuJu Smith-Schuster, and Jalen Reagor
Traded for Mohamad Sanu, DeVante Parker

TE:
Drafted Devin Asiasi, Dalton Keene
Signed Ben Watson, Matt Lacosse, Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith, Mike Gesicki, Pharaoh Brown

OL:
Drafted Yodny Cajuste, Hjalte Froholdt, Michael Onwenu, Justin Herron, Dustin Woodard, Will Sherman, Cole Strange, Chasen Hines, Andrew Steuber, Jake Andrews, Sidy Sow, Atonio Mafi
Signed Ted Karras, Marcus Cannon, Marshall Newhouse, Marcus Martin, Conor McDermott, Bill Murray, Calvin Anderson,
Traded for Jermaine Eluemunor, Korey Cunningham, Yasir Durant, Trent Brown, Vederian Lowe, Riley Reiff, Tyrone Wheatley

OK, for people asking "What's you're point?" BB was constantly tinkering with the roster and adding pieces. Some were bigger moves than others, but the cold hard reality is almost all of these transactions cratered and didn't work out. Most of the draft picks didn't pan out. I know the buck stops with the head coach, but does any accountability fall on the players? How about ownership if they didn't want to shell out a lot of money?

So far, the new regime has brought in RB Antonio Gibson, WR K.J. Osborn, TE Austin Hooper, and OL guys Chukwuma Okorafor and Nick Leverett to help fix the offense. Given the treasure trove of cap dollars they had, those are relatively minor signings. For a team looking to make a major reboot and rebuild, they've been very quiet. They'll have some new faces after next week, but they really haven't been very active so far after hanging out the UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT sign out in front of the stadium.

If a player isn't any good what accountability do you want from them? All this list does to me is reinforce why the Pats are drafting #3 next week...it didn't happen by accident.