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HC Bill Belichick (1 Viewer)

They added 65 transfers, I think? Not super shocked they got beat up, but really early to call this little venture a disaster.

And really, he's in his 70s, whatever he does now is incidental to his legacy. He's like the Rolling Stones. All time great no matter how many times they drag their tired bones onstage and embarrass themselves.

This might be the most interesting part of this left. If the rumors are even half true and he doesn't even last a full season at UNC, does the legacy remain untarnished? It appears UNC may have self-reported recruiting violations just to get leverage in the eviction process. There's still too much speculation and rumor involved, but I think there is potential here for one of the most spectacular falls from grace we've seen in recent sporting world history. This will never reach an OJ Simpson/Lance Armstrong level but he's flirting with a Tiger Woods arc for me.
 
There's still too much speculation and rumor involved, but I think there is potential here for one of the most spectacular falls from grace we've seen in recent sporting world history. This will never reach an OJ Simpson/Lance Armstrong level but he's flirting with a Tiger Woods arc for me
It's only hitting with any velocity because it's happening in the present I think.

10 - 20 years time nobody really remembers this little UNC failure as anything notable against his body of NFL work.
 
There's still too much speculation and rumor involved, but I think there is potential here for one of the most spectacular falls from grace we've seen in recent sporting world history. This will never reach an OJ Simpson/Lance Armstrong level but he's flirting with a Tiger Woods arc for me
It's only hitting with any velocity because it's happening in the present I think.

10 - 20 years time nobody really remembers this little UNC failure as anything notable against his body of NFL work.
Correct. This is more of a black eye on the university and how the UNC Board of Governors went over the head of the AD and President to go get 'their guy' and make a splash hire. It'll affect UNC for much, much longer than it will BB.
 
BB is in the Joannie Loves Chachi stage of his career...from a coaching standpoint I don't think this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time) but from a personal standpoint he is turning himself into a joke...IMO it is very clear he checked-out once he met his sweetheart and the results/actions back this up...I mean how else can you explain hiring Matt Patricia as your OC...that move in itself is worthy of its own 30 for 30...here you have one of the truly great football minds of all time making one of the most foolish decisions you could make and it was so obvious to know it was foolish yet he did it anyways...for all the people who tried and failed to take him down it was a Bridgewater State Cheerleader 50 years his junior who accomplished what no one else could...it's just so fascinating.
 
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. We live in a society where elected leaders are felons and rapists, where draft dodgers call veterans losers, and military commitments to allies are abandoned for financial expediency and you want to begrudge a mean for cheating in athletic contests and for being mean to Jonas Gray (a professional athelete who can't be bothered to show to work on time). In the big picture, Bill Belichick is a nobody but people choose to villify him because they have nothing better to do with their time. I don't have a problem if you dislike the man because you question his character. My perspective of your judgement is who cares. "I am not a role m

That was meandering and I’m not sure what your point is because it is again a red herring; just like when you answered my concerns about his character with a rousing appeal to his football prowess.

Your comments have no cohesion and are akin to a baby eating strained baby pears and then spitting them up. You seem to assume I do not have plenty of room or the wherewithal to dislike people who allow for a society "where draft dodgers call veterans losers, and military commitments to allies are abandoned for financial expediency.” There is no serious time crunch where I can’t dislike all of these men. And Bill Belichick is not a politician, yet he is an important leader and civic figure. He is now the face of and is employed by one of the best education institutions in the Mid-Atlantic.

And here is the point I was making, and you make it for me in your own way. I have watched a general degradation of our culture and our burgeoning nihilism has been my bone of contention with Bill Belichick since the first serious indications of his rampant cheating back in ’02. I had begun to notice back then that there were more and more men like Bill in our institutions. They were taciturn and angry; all that mattered was a result that they deemed important, and the means to achieve their goals no longer mattered. I began to see a public acceptance of their methodology of cheating or corruption as the products of an admirable authenticity and drive rather than the realization that they were morally compromised men who practiced situationally convenient ethics for only their own benefit. They almost never acted with an idea or aim towards the beautiful, just, or good—never mind for the good of the public.

I could go on ad nauseam, but I don’t think you understand what I’m saying nor would you. You aren’t straw manning my argument. I’m not accusing you of that. You seem to have a functional inability to understand my argument, which is that Bill Belichick, wherever he goes, puts people in a situation in which their ethical integrity and moral uprightness is compromised en toto, and that this happens because he acts in such a way that it becomes apparent he is not guided by any moral compass nor a sense of decency. He transgresses in ways that have no regard for rules that have enacted over years that ensure fairness, decency, and our sense of what the good is in our lives.

And to make things worse than just being a man who wrecks places or ruins situations, Bill Belichick always seems to be in charge of or a significant part of big, public-facing institutions that we all benefit from when those institutions act in accordance with standards and practices we all recognize as the right ones. These are institutions that we put trust and time into, and when he is not a part of them they often bestow upon the public certain benefits that are just and they bring forth individuals that are upright—decent people who do things we all want to be witness to. And we see this as a good thing, and therefore, many people contribute their time, effort, and labor to make these institutions function the way they do because we respect others’ humanity qua being human.

But he never has. Not for any institution that he has been a part of. Those institutions that he is a part of; that allow him to be a part of them and lead them? They wind up with confused leaderships and disgraced adherents. Everything Bill touches turns to ****. Always.

I’ll speak commonly so you understand it. Bill wrecks big things that we all enjoy, love, and need. He leaves a trail of ****, anger, and confusion wherever he goes. He is a selfish ******* and he ruins places and people like the worst of the immoralists.

Now do you understand what I am saying?
Lets just skip it. I don't think this is a productive discussion. You do you booboo.
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.
Bill was a great coach. It wasn't just Brady. Bill helped make Brady into what he became. Bill also made those defenses and ran a championship organization for 20 years. It didn't just happen because the QB was good.

There is a thing to be said there for the greats never realizing when their greatness has left them. His last year in New England, you could see him slipping. Things he never did before were happening. Sometimes people get old. He should have never went to UNC but I guess he wanted to see if he still had it. He found out he doesn't.

The whole thing is just sad really.
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.

As someone who thinks he looks like an idiot right now I fully disagree…he was the DC on two defense-first Super Bowl winners and while Brady is the GOAT and made BB’s life 100 times easier it is very easy to forget that there were many who thought he was nothing more than a system QB in the first three titles…the first title may be the greatest coaching performance in NFL history…for those who don’t like him that will never change but this UNC debacle has nothing to do with career prior to losing his mind over a girl barely old enough to drink legally.
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.
Bill was a great coach. It wasn't just Brady. Bill helped make Brady into what he became. Bill also made those defenses and ran a championship organization for 20 years. It didn't just happen because the QB was good.

There is a thing to be said there for the greats never realizing when their greatness has left them. His last year in New England, you could see him slipping. Things he never did before were happening. Sometimes people get old. He should have never went to UNC but I guess he wanted to see if he still had it. He found out he doesn't.

The whole thing is just sad really.

The thing is this is different than coaches like Landry and Shula getting to the finish line of their career…those were just the natural progression of a great career…Father Time is undefeated…BB would have gotten there eventually (and was probably already on the doorstep) but his personal life just threw a grenade into his professional life and it has been a train wreck for about 4 or 5 years now and for a guy who did nothing but dot i’s and cross t ‘s on the most minute detail it is truly fascinating he can’t look in the mirror and not have a clue what he is now doing and the circus it has become.
 
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I do think there are alot of people dancing on BB's grave so to speak in large part because of his persona. In some ways, you reap what you sow and certainly the high profile nature of his relationship with a woman 45+ years his junior runs counter to almost everything he represented as a coach and an organizational builder. To the extent Brady 'unretired' which represented the final straw in a marriage to one of the most famous supermodels to have ever walked the runway and was the mother to 3 of his children...the contrast of 'commitment' here is quite stark.

But let's also not pretend Brady tore it up during the early part of his career. He was good/very good statistically, but he had yet to become the prolific passer he turned into for those first 3 SB's which is how I think he is remembered now.

So the 'he didn't win anything without Brady...' stuff...c'mon. Neither did Bill Walsh without Joe Montana. Chuck Noll without Terry Bradshaw. Belichick is responsible for Brady and back when he made the switch from Bledsoe...that remains one of the all-time gutsiest coaching moves ever. His coaching/management at the end of SB XLIX is THE reason the Patriots started their second SB run. They don't make that play around the goal line...the storyline around the Patriots (and Brady) becomes 'they can get to the big game, but can't close'.

There is another HOF Coach...who just started his job this year, who is actually older than BB who is also struggling - Pete Carroll. The trading of a Day 2 pick to secure Geno Smith isn't looking too genius at the moment. But his persona is one that likable/upbeat...the opposite of aloof. So we get stories like 'Pete Carroll kicked over a whiteboard - cool' instead of 'Belichick is nothing without Brady'.

I think it's a bit much...
 
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from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.

As someone who thinks he looks like an idiot right now I fully disagree…he was the DC on two defense-first Super Bowl winners and while Brady is the GOAT and made BB’s life 100 times easier it is very easy to forget that there were many who thought he was nothing more than a system QB in the first three titles…the first title may be the greatest coaching performance in NFL history…for those who don’t like him that will never change but this UNC debacle has nothing to do with career prior to losing his mind over a girl barely old enough to drink legally.
Fair enough, and I respect your opinion, but as with nearly all things in life you won’t get a universal consensus. Some people will have one view on an issue while other people will have other views. My buddy who is a smart guy and hardcore football fan texted me this morning about Belichick — “He’s really wrecked his legacy.”

In the end, it doesn’t really matter if Belichick actually tarnished legacy. What matters is people’s perception that Bill has tarnished his legacy, and many people hold that opinion.
 
Bill is disqualified from being the GOAT for spy gate.

Hard to contextualize him at all.

Spygate was a tempest in a teapot. When asked for comment on the scandal, Steve Mariucci explained that every team in the NFL attempted to obtain information about opponent's play calling and he described his staff on the Lions digging through visiting team's coaching staff trash looking for information about play signals. NE was fined for continuing to film on the sidelines after Goodell sent out a memo directing teams to place such video equipment in the stands rather than on the sideline.

From Jemile Hill's 2007 article....

"No one thought better of poking the bear earlier in the season, when the media and other NFL players took shots at the Patriots for Videogate, questioning their championships and calling them cheaters -- even though New England engaged in a practice as common as corsages at the prom."

The indignation of some fans over paying a fine for common practice is laughable, particularly when you consider the salary cap manipulation, illegal cut blocking schemes, systematic usage of performance enhancing drugs and ownership abuse of provisions for player injury settlement, is laughable.

Spygate and the subsequent deflategate were nothing more than sour grapes agenda pushed by owners of franchises that were not able to compete. I'm not sharing my opinion here; I'm sharing the consensus opinion of players and coaches around the league at the time. The history is documented if you care to read it.
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.

As someone who thinks he looks like an idiot right now I fully disagree…he was the DC on two defense-first Super Bowl winners and while Brady is the GOAT and made BB’s life 100 times easier it is very easy to forget that there were many who thought he was nothing more than a system QB in the first three titles…the first title may be the greatest coaching performance in NFL history…for those who don’t like him that will never change but this UNC debacle has nothing to do with career prior to losing his mind over a girl barely old enough to drink legally.
Fair enough, and I respect your opinion, but as with nearly all things in life you won’t get a universal consensus. Some people will have one view on an issue while other people will have other views. My buddy who is a smart guy and hardcore football fan texted me this morning about Belichick — “He’s really wrecked his legacy.”

In the end, it doesn’t really matter if Belichick actually tarnished legacy. What matters is people’s perception that Bill has tarnished his legacy, and many people hold that opinion.

Agreed...zero doubt he is a lightning rod...and in a lot of ways both the pro and anti-BB guys have their heels dug in and for the anti-BB crowd he is making their life too easy to take shots at him right now...as a Pats fan who was a "in Bill we trust" guy I am now treating him like an alcoholic and will remember him for what he was like prior to losing his battle with the bottle except in his case it is a college cheerleader 50 years younger than him who now has 8 million dollars in real estate courtesy of her sugar daddy.
 
Bill is disqualified from being the GOAT for spy gate.

Hard to contextualize him at all.

Spygate was a tempest in a teapot. When asked for comment on the scandal, Steve Mariucci explained that every team in the NFL attempted to obtain information about opponent's play calling and he described his staff on the Lions digging through visiting team's coaching staff trash looking for information about play signals. NE was fined for continuing to film on the sidelines after Goodell sent out a memo directing teams to place such video equipment in the stands rather than on the sideline.

From Jemile Hill's 2007 article....

"No one thought better of poking the bear earlier in the season, when the media and other NFL players took shots at the Patriots for Videogate, questioning their championships and calling them cheaters -- even though New England engaged in a practice as common as corsages at the prom."

The indignation of some fans over paying a fine for common practice is laughable, particularly when you consider the salary cap manipulation, illegal cut blocking schemes, systematic usage of performance enhancing drugs and ownership abuse of provisions for player injury settlement, is laughable.

Spygate and the subsequent deflategate were nothing more than sour grapes agenda pushed by owners of franchises that were not able to compete. I'm not sharing my opinion here; I'm sharing the consensus opinion of players and coaches around the league at the time. The history is documented if you care to read it.
If it was common place, it wouldn't be sour grapes.

The scope of what I'm talking about is the Rams super bowl, where the walk through was videotaped, acknowledged, accepted and destroyed. Belicheck accepted a suspension, Kraft paid a significant fine. Rams were a huge favorite, couldn't move the ball in the first half and only when they changed their game plan did they have success. All of those players said the Pats had coverages for things that weren't on prior game tape.

I'm uninterested in "protect the shield" NFL lifers trying to downplay a massive scandal.

The total lack of transparency tells you something was very rotten there.
 
Bill is disqualified from being the GOAT for spy gate.

Hard to contextualize him at all.

Spygate was a tempest in a teapot. When asked for comment on the scandal, Steve Mariucci explained that every team in the NFL attempted to obtain information about opponent's play calling and he described his staff on the Lions digging through visiting team's coaching staff trash looking for information about play signals. NE was fined for continuing to film on the sidelines after Goodell sent out a memo directing teams to place such video equipment in the stands rather than on the sideline.

From Jemile Hill's 2007 article....

"No one thought better of poking the bear earlier in the season, when the media and other NFL players took shots at the Patriots for Videogate, questioning their championships and calling them cheaters -- even though New England engaged in a practice as common as corsages at the prom."

The indignation of some fans over paying a fine for common practice is laughable, particularly when you consider the salary cap manipulation, illegal cut blocking schemes, systematic usage of performance enhancing drugs and ownership abuse of provisions for player injury settlement, is laughable.

Spygate and the subsequent deflategate were nothing more than sour grapes agenda pushed by owners of franchises that were not able to compete. I'm not sharing my opinion here; I'm sharing the consensus opinion of players and coaches around the league at the time. The history is documented if you care to read it.
If it was common place, it wouldn't be sour grapes.

The scope of what I'm talking about is the Rams super bowl, where the walk through was videotaped, acknowledged, accepted and destroyed. Belicheck accepted a suspension, Kraft paid a significant fine. Rams were a huge favorite, couldn't move the ball in the first half and only when they changed their game plan did they have success. All of those players said the Pats had coverages for things that weren't on prior game tape.

I'm uninterested in "protect the shield" NFL lifers trying to downplay a massive scandal.

The total lack of transparency tells you something was very rotten there.

Your false claim is not the first attempt to connect penalties against NE specific to a game against the Jets with claims against the Patriots by Mike Martz and Marshall Faulk in the Rams choking of the Super Bowl. In fact, NE had to relocate its practices before the SB for fear that the Rams would be spying on them.

Source
 
BB is in the Joannie Loves Chachi stage of his career...from a coaching standpoint I don't think this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time) but from a personal standpoint he is turning himself into a joke...IMO it is very clear he checked-out once he met his sweetheart and the results/actions back this up...I mean how else can you explain hiring Matt Patricia as your OC...that move in itself is worthy of its own 30 for 30...here you have one of the truly great football minds of all time making one of the most foolish decisions you could make and it was so obvious to know it was foolish yet he did it anyways...for all the people who tried and failed to take him down it was a Bridgewater State Cheerleader 50 years his junior who accomplished what no one else could...it's just so fascinating.
I remember BB's hubris in his last season with the team. When he was asked during preseason about why they didn't do enough to address the problems at OT.


The Patriots made a pair of trades on Sunday and they were both designed to address one area on the team.

Tackles Tyrone Wheatley Jr. and Vederian Lowe are joining the team in moves that underscore the difficulty that the Patriots have had finding a right tackle heading into the regular season. It was a trouble spot last year as well and head coach Bill Belichick was asked on WEEI on Monday about criticism that the team has not done enough to address the position this offseason.

"We signed Riley Reiff, we drafted three players on the offensive line. I'm not sure what you're talking about," Belichick said, via Dakota Randall of NESN.

None of the players were drafted before the fourth round and none have extensive experience at tackle. The Patriots also re-signed Conor McDermott and signed Calvin Anderson, but Anderson has been out with an illness since the spring and neither McDermott nor Reiff locked down the job.

Those developments contributed to Sunday's trades and the identity of the starter remains an open question with less than two weeks to go before the opener.
 
Albert Breer
I’ve long felt Belichick was the GOAT. But now …

• Reid w/o Mahomes: 184-123-1, 13 playoff berths, 8 division titles, 1 SB, 11 playoff wins, 8 Top 10 offenses.

• Belichick w/o Brady: 83-101, 2 playoff berths, 0 division titles, 0 SBs, 1 playoff win, 0 Top 10 offenses.
Not to derail, but in my opinion Paul Brown is the GOAT. 7 Championships and left a Championship team behind (like Jimmy Johnson) so could have easily added more. Also had a Coaching tree featuring Blanton Collier (his Barry Switzer in this analogy) Weeb Ewbank (2 Colts NFL Titles, and Jets Super Bowl winner) and Bill Walsh (in the GOAT conversation himself)
 

If you haven't had a chance to read it yet, I recommend The Education Of A Coach by David Halberstam. In particular, with respect to Breer's stats, the details of BB's time in Cleveland is very compelling reading. In short, BB had to clean house getting rid of Bernie Kosar and many other entitlement-focused players in a rebuild. Just as the rebuild was starting to bear fruit (the Browns went from 6 wins in 1991 to 11 wins and the playoffs in 1994), Art Modell stabbed Cleveland in the back and moved the franchise to Baltimore early in the 1995 season after which the Browns imploded. The numbers from Cleveland arent great (nor are they post Brady in NE) but the time in Cleveland included BB assembling a staff that included Saban, Newsome, Savage, Ferentz and others. Effectively, BB's time in Cleveland created a siege mentality with respect to his relationship to anyone outside his organization (fans, media, ownership)...not that this is right; it's just a reality of his experience.

There are a lot of people who want to simplify the Pats dynasty as purely Brady driven which is understandable when you look at Brady's success when he joined the Bucs as they had everything needed to win a superbowl except a quarterback. This is insanely oversimplistic and conveniently ignores the fact that the Pats were a defensive powerhouse for their first 3 superbowls. But narratives can be a powerful thing...particularly when people can't be bothered with details.
 
Albert Breer
I’ve long felt Belichick was the GOAT. But now …

• Reid w/o Mahomes: 184-123-1, 13 playoff berths, 8 division titles, 1 SB, 11 playoff wins, 8 Top 10 offenses.

• Belichick w/o Brady: 83-101, 2 playoff berths, 0 division titles, 0 SBs, 1 playoff win, 0 Top 10 offenses.
Not to derail, but in my opinion Paul Brown is the GOAT. 7 Championships and left a Championship team behind (like Jimmy Johnson) so could have easily added more. Also had a Coaching tree featuring Blanton Collier (his Barry Switzer in this analogy) Weeb Ewbank (2 Colts NFL Titles, and Jets Super Bowl winner) and Bill Walsh (in the GOAT conversation himself)
Mount Rushmore:
Modern Football: Paul Brown
Modern Offense: Bill Walsh
Modern Defense: Bill Belichick
Personnel: Ozzie Newsome
Coaching: Lombardi (Landry honorable mention)
 
Underdog NFL
Bill Belichick's statement per Carolina Athletics:

"I'm fully committed to UNC Football and the program we're building here."
This smacks of a press release that happens 48 hours before there is a "mutual parting of ways".
tbh, I had that same reaction. I will very interested to learn about the backstory if we end up being privy to those details.
 
Albert Breer
I’ve long felt Belichick was the GOAT. But now …

• Reid w/o Mahomes: 184-123-1, 13 playoff berths, 8 division titles, 1 SB, 11 playoff wins, 8 Top 10 offenses.

• Belichick w/o Brady: 83-101, 2 playoff berths, 0 division titles, 0 SBs, 1 playoff win, 0 Top 10 offenses.
Not to derail, but in my opinion Paul Brown is the GOAT. 7 Championships and left a Championship team behind (like Jimmy Johnson) so could have easily added more. Also had a Coaching tree featuring Blanton Collier (his Barry Switzer in this analogy) Weeb Ewbank (2 Colts NFL Titles, and Jets Super Bowl winner) and Bill Walsh (in the GOAT conversation himself)
Plus, Paul Brown introduced the short, timing passing routes that became the norm today. Brown’s protege Bill Walsh commonly gets credited for the West Coast offense, but that offense had it’s origins with Brown, and Walsh just tinkered with it and took it West.
 
Albert Breer
I’ve long felt Belichick was the GOAT. But now …

• Reid w/o Mahomes: 184-123-1, 13 playoff berths, 8 division titles, 1 SB, 11 playoff wins, 8 Top 10 offenses.

• Belichick w/o Brady: 83-101, 2 playoff berths, 0 division titles, 0 SBs, 1 playoff win, 0 Top 10 offenses.
Not to derail, but in my opinion Paul Brown is the GOAT. 7 Championships and left a Championship team behind (like Jimmy Johnson) so could have easily added more. Also had a Coaching tree featuring Blanton Collier (his Barry Switzer in this analogy) Weeb Ewbank (2 Colts NFL Titles, and Jets Super Bowl winner) and Bill Walsh (in the GOAT conversation himself)
Mount Rushmore:
Modern Football: Paul Brown
Modern Offense: Bill Walsh
Modern Defense: Bill Belichick
Personnel: Ozzie Newsome
Coaching: Lombardi (Landry honorable mention)

Tough to argue with this and I like that you include Landry...he is very under-rated...what always impresses me about him is he did it over multiple eras of football...from the time he started to the time he ended the NFL and the country were totally different...the fact he was the DC and Vince was the OC on the same Giants staff is always a great piece of trivia as well.
 
The tarnished legacy is the worst.

That's why no one thinks Steve Spurrier, Don Shula, Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson, Willie Mays are all time greats. They could have been! But, they performed poorly at the end of their careers, thus eliminating them from contention for the exalted title of untarnished legacy.

Bummer for them
 
The tarnished legacy is the worst.

That's why no one thinks Steve Spurrier, Don Shula, Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson, Willie Mays are all time greats. They could have been! But, they performed poorly at the end of their careers, thus eliminating them from contention for the exalted title of untarnished legacy.

Bummer for them

You either die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain.

 
The tarnished legacy is the worst.

That's why no one thinks Steve Spurrier, Don Shula, Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson, Willie Mays are all time greats. They could have been! But, they performed poorly at the end of their careers, thus eliminating them from contention for the exalted title of untarnished legacy.

Bummer for them
All those players and coaches declined naturally, though, as nearly all coaches and players do at the end of their career.

Belichick’s situation is different. He took a new job, failed miserably, and may be fired mid-season amidst scandal. The most comparable situation is Urban Meyer’s Jacksonville stint. I’d say that many people do view that stint as somewhat tarnishing Meyer’s coaching legacy. Of course, Urban did plenty other before Jacksonville to tarnish his own reputation.

Also, most of the guys you listed are beloved. So people want to forget their decline or not hold it against them. Belichick, however, is kind of hated. So his haters will hold his failures against him.
 
The tarnished legacy is the worst.

That's why no one thinks Steve Spurrier, Don Shula, Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson, Willie Mays are all time greats. They could have been! But, they performed poorly at the end of their careers, thus eliminating them from contention for the exalted title of untarnished legacy.

Bummer for them
All those players and coaches declined naturally, though, as nearly all coaches and players do at the end of their career.

Belichick’s situation is different. He took a new job, failed miserably, and may be fired mid-season amidst scandal. The most comparable situation is Urban Meyer’s Jacksonville stint. I’d say that many people do view that stint as somewhat tarnishing Meyer’s coaching legacy. Of course, Urban did plenty other before Jacksonville to tarnish his own reputation.

Also, most of the guys you listed are beloved. So people want to forget their decline or not hold it against them. Belichick, however, is kind of hated. So his haters will hold his failures against him.
Really my only point is that people who accomplished great things have stumbled at the end, and people forget that stuff.

BB didn't have a HOF career, he had two of them, same as Brady. Everyone is correct that they won a LOT without Brady throwing for a lot of yards. Those were his defenses, with his guys. He cycled through players, this wasn't Chuck Noll with one roster. His peers are Halas, Walsh, Shula.

He also had a HOF career, if not two, as a GM. Salary cap, draft trades, free agency. He innovated in ALL those areas.

What people think of him as a person may have changed, but his football legacy is kind of beyond question
 
BB is a ****. He was a **** before he got the job in New England, he was a **** in Mew England with Brady, he was a **** post Brady, and he appears to still be a ****. Many people don’t like him, and many people rooted against him after Brady left. That couple you knew got divorced and almost everyone picked Brady in the divorce.
Then Bill is touted as the savior of UNC and maybe the captain to navigate college football into its new era, and the guy appears to be even more of a standoffish prick that lets his child girlfriend make important decisions regarding his career and team. Yeah, his legacy was in doubt before, but it is actively on fire now.
My take is biased. I am a Raiders fan. It was a fumble, Bill is a cheater, and even if he is a minority owner… **** Tom Brady.
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.
Bill was a great coach. It wasn't just Brady. Bill helped make Brady into what he became. Bill also made those defenses and ran a championship organization for 20 years. It didn't just happen because the QB was good.

There is a thing to be said there for the greats never realizing when their greatness has left them. His last year in New England, you could see him slipping. Things he never did before were happening. Sometimes people get old. He should have never went to UNC but I guess he wanted to see if he still had it. He found out he doesn't.

The whole thing is just sad really.

The thing is this is different than coaches like Landry and Shula getting to the finish line of their career…those were just the natural progression of a great career…Father Time is undefeated…BB would have gotten there eventually (and was probably already on the doorstep) but his personal life just threw a grenade into his professional life and it has been a train wreck for about 4 or 5 years now and for a guy who did nothing but dot i’s and cross t ‘s on the most minute detail it is truly fascinating he can’t look in the mirror and not have a clue what he is now doing and the circus it has become.
We also have to remember that there was no microscope like social media back then. We have no idea how Landry and Shula's personal lives were. I think we were all better for it too. Now we know way too much.
 
BB is a ****. He was a **** before he got the job in New England, he was a **** in Mew England with Brady, he was a **** post Brady, and he appears to still be a ****. Many people don’t like him, and many people rooted against him after Brady left. That couple you knew got divorced and almost everyone picked Brady in the divorce.
Then Bill is touted as the savior of UNC and maybe the captain to navigate college football into its new era, and the guy appears to be even more of a standoffish prick that lets his child girlfriend make important decisions regarding his career and team. Yeah, his legacy was in doubt before, but it is actively on fire now.
My take is biased. I am a Raiders fan. It was a fumble, Bill is a cheater, and even if he is a minority owner… **** Tom Brady.
See, I'm actually a fan of this post, because you're honest about the hate.

By the way, the tuck rule was one of the dumbest rules the NFL ever came up with. But that same year, before it was called in the infamous playoff game, it was called in games quarterback'ed by Kerry Collins and Kurt Warner. Horrible rule, called correctly. You could have still won the game in overtime. Too bad the Raiders choked. :P
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.
Bill was a great coach. It wasn't just Brady. Bill helped make Brady into what he became. Bill also made those defenses and ran a championship organization for 20 years. It didn't just happen because the QB was good.

There is a thing to be said there for the greats never realizing when their greatness has left them. His last year in New England, you could see him slipping. Things he never did before were happening. Sometimes people get old. He should have never went to UNC but I guess he wanted to see if he still had it. He found out he doesn't.

The whole thing is just sad really.

The thing is this is different than coaches like Landry and Shula getting to the finish line of their career…those were just the natural progression of a great career…Father Time is undefeated…BB would have gotten there eventually (and was probably already on the doorstep) but his personal life just threw a grenade into his professional life and it has been a train wreck for about 4 or 5 years now and for a guy who did nothing but dot i’s and cross t ‘s on the most minute detail it is truly fascinating he can’t look in the mirror and not have a clue what he is now doing and the circus it has become.
We also have to remember that there was no microscope like social media back then. We have no idea how Landry and Shula's personal lives were. I think we were all better for it too. Now we know way too much.

What is so funny/odd is we really didn't know much about BB's personal live until Jor-Don came on the scene...his Dad was a football lifer with strong ties to the Naval Academy, he dated a hot cougar by the name of Linda Holliday who kept a pretty low profile and he has a place out on Nantucket...other than that there wasn't much going on other than football...than Jor-Don comes out of nowhere and his life has now turned into a circus...I keep saying it but his professional life was all about limiting distractions about even the tiniest details and all of a sudden he can't get out of his own way and is now the star of what has basically turned into a reality show...this is simply a different person than the one pre-Jor-Don...and before I hear the foolish he must be nailing her 24/7 he is an out-of-shape 73 year old Grandfather...that aint happening...this thing is mental and it is completely f'd up.
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.
Bill was a great coach. It wasn't just Brady. Bill helped make Brady into what he became. Bill also made those defenses and ran a championship organization for 20 years. It didn't just happen because the QB was good.

There is a thing to be said there for the greats never realizing when their greatness has left them. His last year in New England, you could see him slipping. Things he never did before were happening. Sometimes people get old. He should have never went to UNC but I guess he wanted to see if he still had it. He found out he doesn't.

The whole thing is just sad really.

The thing is this is different than coaches like Landry and Shula getting to the finish line of their career…those were just the natural progression of a great career…Father Time is undefeated…BB would have gotten there eventually (and was probably already on the doorstep) but his personal life just threw a grenade into his professional life and it has been a train wreck for about 4 or 5 years now and for a guy who did nothing but dot i’s and cross t ‘s on the most minute detail it is truly fascinating he can’t look in the mirror and not have a clue what he is now doing and the circus it has become.
We also have to remember that there was no microscope like social media back then. We have no idea how Landry and Shula's personal lives were. I think we were all better for it too. Now we know way too much.

What is so funny/odd is we really didn't know much about BB's personal live until Jor-Don came on the scene...his Dad was a football lifer with strong ties to the Naval Academy, he dated a hot cougar by the name of Linda Holliday who kept a pretty low profile and he has a place out on Nantucket...other than that there wasn't much going on other than football...than Jor-Don comes out of nowhere and his life has now turned into a circus...I keep saying it but his professional life was all about limiting distractions about even the tiniest details and all of a sudden he can't get out of his own way and is now the star of what has basically turned into a reality show...this is simply a different person than the one pre-Jor-Don...and before I hear the foolish he must be nailing her 24/7 he is an out-of-shape 73 year old Grandfather...that aint happening...this thing is mental and it is completely f'd up.
wellness check? :laugh:
 
from a coaching standpoint I don't this will affect his legacy (his resume is just too good over such a long period of time)
I think the UNC debacle will hurt Belichick’s legacy in some people’s eyes.

Even before Bill’s UNC stint, many people were looking at Belichick’s head coaching record without Tom Brady and Brady’s record without Belichick, and they were questioning who was more responsible for the Patriots’ unprecedented success. For the people inclined to think that Brady was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty than Belichick, Belichick’s UNC failure will just be further proof in their eyes.

Ultimately, decades from now, NFL telecasts may flash a graphic of winningest coaches in NFL history and most viewers will consider Belichick an all-time great. Yet for some people who lived through this moment, Bill’s UNC failure will be further proof to them that Bill’s head-coaching “greatness” was mainly having the best QB ever.
Bill was a great coach. It wasn't just Brady. Bill helped make Brady into what he became. Bill also made those defenses and ran a championship organization for 20 years. It didn't just happen because the QB was good.

There is a thing to be said there for the greats never realizing when their greatness has left them. His last year in New England, you could see him slipping. Things he never did before were happening. Sometimes people get old. He should have never went to UNC but I guess he wanted to see if he still had it. He found out he doesn't.

The whole thing is just sad really.

The thing is this is different than coaches like Landry and Shula getting to the finish line of their career…those were just the natural progression of a great career…Father Time is undefeated…BB would have gotten there eventually (and was probably already on the doorstep) but his personal life just threw a grenade into his professional life and it has been a train wreck for about 4 or 5 years now and for a guy who did nothing but dot i’s and cross t ‘s on the most minute detail it is truly fascinating he can’t look in the mirror and not have a clue what he is now doing and the circus it has become.
We also have to remember that there was no microscope like social media back then. We have no idea how Landry and Shula's personal lives were. I think we were all better for it too. Now we know way too much.

What is so funny/odd is we really didn't know much about BB's personal live until Jor-Don came on the scene...his Dad was a football lifer with strong ties to the Naval Academy, he dated a hot cougar by the name of Linda Holliday who kept a pretty low profile and he has a place out on Nantucket...other than that there wasn't much going on other than football...than Jor-Don comes out of nowhere and his life has now turned into a circus...I keep saying it but his professional life was all about limiting distractions about even the tiniest details and all of a sudden he can't get out of his own way and is now the star of what has basically turned into a reality show...this is simply a different person than the one pre-Jor-Don...and before I hear the foolish he must be nailing her 24/7 he is an out-of-shape 73 year old Grandfather...that aint happening...this thing is mental and it is completely f'd up.
wellness check? :laugh:

Elder abuse...
 
BB is a ****. He was a **** before he got the job in New England, he was a **** in Mew England with Brady, he was a **** post Brady, and he appears to still be a ****. Many people don’t like him, and many people rooted against him after Brady left. That couple you knew got divorced and almost everyone picked Brady in the divorce.
Then Bill is touted as the savior of UNC and maybe the captain to navigate college football into its new era, and the guy appears to be even more of a standoffish prick that lets his child girlfriend make important decisions regarding his career and team. Yeah, his legacy was in doubt before, but it is actively on fire now.
My take is biased. I am a Raiders fan. It was a fumble, Bill is a cheater, and even if he is a minority owner… **** Tom Brady.
See, I'm actually a fan of this post, because you're honest about the hate.

By the way, the tuck rule was one of the dumbest rules the NFL ever came up with. But that same year, before it was called in the infamous playoff game, it was called in games quarterback'ed by Kerry Collins and Kurt Warner. Horrible rule, called correctly. You could have still won the game in overtime. Too bad the Raiders choked. :P
Justice for Sugar Bear Hamilton/Ben Dreidt. It took 25 years to happen but karma came to collect.
 
BB is a ****. He was a **** before he got the job in New England, he was a **** in Mew England with Brady, he was a **** post Brady, and he appears to still be a ****. Many people don’t like him, and many people rooted against him after Brady left. That couple you knew got divorced and almost everyone picked Brady in the divorce.
Then Bill is touted as the savior of UNC and maybe the captain to navigate college football into its new era, and the guy appears to be even more of a standoffish prick that lets his child girlfriend make important decisions regarding his career and team. Yeah, his legacy was in doubt before, but it is actively on fire now.
My take is biased. I am a Raiders fan. It was a fumble, Bill is a cheater, and even if he is a minority owner… **** Tom Brady.
See, I'm actually a fan of this post, because you're honest about the hate.

By the way, the tuck rule was one of the dumbest rules the NFL ever came up with. But that same year, before it was called in the infamous playoff game, it was called in games quarterback'ed by Kerry Collins and Kurt Warner. Horrible rule, called correctly. You could have still won the game in overtime. Too bad the Raiders choked. :P
Justice for Sugar Bear Hamilton/Ben Dreidt. It took 25 years to happen but karma came to collect.

I think of that every time this topic comes up…one is a bad rule the other was a horrible call.
 

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