Heineken - Zero Alcohol (1 Viewer)

[Gr00vus]

Heineken?!?! #### that ####! PABST BLUE RIBBON!!!!!

 

[moleculo]

I wish NA beer was more prevalant and it doesnt get the reaction it does (I.e. read above thread).  I think that if we could get past the stigma, a good tasting NA craft beer could be a great thing.

When I was in Germany a couple of years ago, NA beer was common in the bar...as were 'radlers' - 1/2 beer, 1/2 Sprite.  Part of that is they don't have light beer there, but a bigger part is DUI is a really, REALLY big deal.  As in, most grown men will have one beer with dinner if they are driving, and then NA  if their friends (i.e me) want a couple more.  Drinking NA doesn't make someone a wuss, it means they are responsible.  I think that's a great thing.

Understand - I'm as big of a beer guy as there is in FBG. Last summer, I made it a personal challenge to brew a very flavorful beer with as little alcohol as possible, mostly so I could drink a lot of them and not have a headache the next day.  It was an English Bitter, clocked in at ~3%abv, and had a ton of malty, biscuity flavor with plenty of aromatic hops.  It was delicious, but good luck finding flavorful <4% beer available commercially.  I've been researching NA home brew and one day I'll give it a shot - it's tough to do.

So...knock Heineken all you want and I'll agree, but I do support NA beer.  In theory it's all the aroma, taste, mouth feel, refreshment, satisfaction, routine & tradition but without the headache, liver damage, and decreased motor function.

 

[msommer]

I wish NA beer was more prevalant and it doesnt get the reaction it does (I.e. read above thread).  I think that if we could get past the stigma, a good tasting NA craft beer could be a great thing.

When I was in Germany a couple of years ago, NA beer was common in the bar...as were 'radlers' - 1/2 beer, 1/2 Sprite.  Part of that is they don't have light beer there, but a bigger part is DUI is a really, REALLY big deal.  As in, most grown men will have one beer with dinner if they are driving, and then NA  if their friends (i.e me) want a couple more.  Drinking NA doesn't make someone a wuss, it means they are responsible.  I think that's a great thing.

Understand - I'm as big of a beer guy as there is in FBG. Last summer, I made it a personal challenge to brew a very flavorful beer with as little alcohol as possible, mostly so I could drink a lot of them and not have a headache the next day.  It was an English Bitter, clocked in at ~3%abv, and had a ton of malty, biscuity flavor with plenty of aromatic hops.  It was delicious, but good luck finding flavorful <4% beer available commercially.  I've been researching NA home brew and one day I'll give it a shot - it's tough to do.

So...knock Heineken all you want and I'll agree, but I do support NA beer.  In theory it's all the aroma, taste, mouth feel, refreshment, satisfaction, routine & tradition but without the headache, liver damage, and decreased motor function.

It's supposedly really hard to make NA craft beer. AFAIK the method most commonly used is to distill the alcohol out of the beer (discard the distillate rather than the rest). But the tolerances are not easy without special equipment

 

[moleculo]

It's supposedly really hard to make NA craft beer. AFAIK the method most commonly used is to distill the alcohol out of the beer (discard the distillate rather than the rest). But the tolerances are not easy without special equipment

I'd imagine so.  As long as I'm not trying to collect the distillate, I can handle the distilling temps in quantities of up to 10 gallons at a time with my brewing rig.

The problems I see are changing the beer:

* Hop flavor and aeromatics are likely to boil off along with the alcohol, so I'd probably have to dry hop afterwards.

* Concern about changing flavor: potential for extra carmelization, oxidation, etc.

*Stability: alcohol acts as a preservative.  Driving that out could lead to spoilage.  Also, the distilling temps will kill any residual yeast which acts to scrub oxygen, leading to potential for oxidation.  This all leads to reduced shelf life.

So that's why you don't see craft Brewers going down this path.  It's difficult, risky, and has a stigma to it.  Still, I think there is potential here.  

 

[Frostillicus]

I have a neighbor who drinks a ton of NA beer.  He quit drinking but told me he just loves the taste of beer.  He's always searching for stuff like NA IPAs or other beers with more flavor, but no booze.  Good for him. Weirdo.

 

[jwb]

Understand - I'm as big of a beer guy as there is in FBG. Last summer, I made it a personal challenge to brew a very flavorful beer with as little alcohol as possible, mostly so I could drink a lot of them and not have a headache the next day.  It was an English Bitter, clocked in at ~3%abv, and had a ton of malty, biscuity flavor with plenty of aromatic hops.  It was delicious, but good luck finding flavorful <4% beer available commercially.  I've been researching NA home brew and one day I'll give it a shot - it's tough to do.

While not quite <4%, Goose Honkers Ale (malty English bitter style, 4.3%), and Founders All Day IPA (4.7%) are both quite tasty.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

I wish NA beer was more prevalant and it doesnt get the reaction it does (I.e. read above thread).  I think that if we could get past the stigma, a good tasting NA craft beer could be a great thing.

When I was in Germany a couple of years ago, NA beer was common in the bar...as were 'radlers' - 1/2 beer, 1/2 Sprite.  Part of that is they don't have light beer there, but a bigger part is DUI is a really, REALLY big deal.  As in, most grown men will have one beer with dinner if they are driving, and then NA  if their friends (i.e me) want a couple more.  Drinking NA doesn't make someone a wuss, it means they are responsible.  I think that's a great thing.

Understand - I'm as big of a beer guy as there is in FBG. Last summer, I made it a personal challenge to brew a very flavorful beer with as little alcohol as possible, mostly so I could drink a lot of them and not have a headache the next day.  It was an English Bitter, clocked in at ~3%abv, and had a ton of malty, biscuity flavor with plenty of aromatic hops.  It was delicious, but good luck finding flavorful <4% beer available commercially.  I've been researching NA home brew and one day I'll give it a shot - it's tough to do.

So...knock Heineken all you want and I'll agree, but I do support NA beer.  In theory it's all the aroma, taste, mouth feel, refreshment, satisfaction, routine & tradition but without the headache, liver damage, and decreased motor function.

I tried to make three batches. The first two were awful. The third was mediocre. I plan to try and make an NA coffee milk stout. I learned that a lot of the NA makers add lactose for flavor and body. I thought the coffee would then help take care of the off odors. Would love to barrel age it somehow, but worried about spoilage.  

 

[moleculo]

I tried to make three batches. The first two were awful. The third was mediocre. I plan to try and make an NA coffee milk stout. I learned that a lot of the NA makers add lactose for flavor and body. I thought the coffee would then help take care of the off odors. Would love to barrel age it somehow, but worried about spoilage.  

how did you try to do it? 

I'm thinking the thing to do is mash really warm and use what ever adjunct I can (oats?) to get it as thick as possible - I've read that taking the booze out really thins it out, so you want to start as thick as you can.  Lactose makes sense.  Probably not add any flavoring or aroma hops, and then add hops during the de-boozing.

A coffee stout is a good idea for something like this. Maybe instead of barrel aging, I'd add an oak spiral, and I'd add it directly to the keg.  For sure don't age it - drink it fast.  this is why I'm thinking APA, kolsch, or maybe English common as a base.

 

[moleculo]

While not quite <4%, Goose Honkers Ale (malty English bitter style, 4.3%), and Founders All Day IPA (4.7%) are both quite tasty.  

4% is even a little strong for what I'm looking for.  find me something tasty at around 3%.

Sour could be the way to go.  I've had some really good sours at my homebrew club that were <3% - Berliner Weisse as an example.

 

[parasaurolophus]

how did you try to do it? 

I'm thinking the thing to do is mash really warm and use what ever adjunct I can (oats?) to get it as thick as possible - I've read that taking the booze out really thins it out, so you want to start as thick as you can.  Lactose makes sense.  Probably not add any flavoring or aroma hops, and then add hops during the de-boozing.

A coffee stout is a good idea for something like this. Maybe instead of barrel aging, I'd add an oak spiral, and I'd add it directly to the keg.  For sure don't age it - drink it fast.  this is why I'm thinking APA, kolsch, or maybe English common as a base.

I made the batches and then cooked off the alcohol i can continuously loop at 174 degrees. One of the things i also thought would be good about a stout is that you can cold steep your roasted grains. So i figured some hop balls of williamette and chocolate malt tea bags in the keg as well could really help. 

 

[jwb]

4% is even a little strong for what I'm looking for.  find me something tasty at around 3%.

Sour could be the way to go.  I've had some really good sours at my homebrew club that were <3% - Berliner Weisse as an example.

my wife likes Schofferhoffer (sp?). Like 2.5% or something like that. I'm not a fan of the sour / fruit stuff.

I do understand the want for a tasty low alcohol brew. There are times I'd like a few beers for the afternoon, but don't want to get anything more than a mild buzz.

 

[Spike]

Getting in position to "get them back" seems dark yet plausible.

Side note: it looks like I'm the only person here who actually likes Heineken. I also tried Heineken Light once, but it was awful.

I am the other one. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

how did you try to do it? 

I'm thinking the thing to do is mash really warm and use what ever adjunct I can (oats?) to get it as thick as possible - I've read that taking the booze out really thins it out, so you want to start as thick as you can.  Lactose makes sense.  Probably not add any flavoring or aroma hops, and then add hops during the de-boozing.

A coffee stout is a good idea for something like this. Maybe instead of barrel aging, I'd add an oak spiral, and I'd add it directly to the keg.  For sure don't age it - drink it fast.  this is why I'm thinking APA, kolsch, or maybe English common as a base.

So I cant stop thinking about this. I have some thoughts I wanted to bounce off of you. Obviously hop aroma and flavor are one of the big things that get heated away getting rid of the alcohol. 

So what if instead of adding hops before fermentation we wait until after the alcohol is heated away? So basically mash, bring to boil for sanitation purposes(maybe 10 minutes?), chill, ferment, heat away alcohol, then add hops and boil? 

So a few things to consider...

1. Is a 10 minute first boil enough to get rid of DMS?

2. Will the remaining SMM give it too much of an off flavor?

3. Because of these concerns would it be better just to boil it for a full 60 minutes without hops and then add water right before the hop boil to maintain proper %'s?

4. If we decide that doing a 60 minute boil makes sense should we add a small amount of hops just for preservative(antibacterial) sake? 

 

[moleculo]

So I cant stop thinking about this. I have some thoughts I wanted to bounce off of you. Obviously hop aroma and flavor are one of the big things that get heated away getting rid of the alcohol. 

So what if instead of adding hops before fermentation we wait until after the alcohol is heated away? So basically mash, bring to boil for sanitation purposes(maybe 10 minutes?), chill, ferment, heat away alcohol, then add hops and boil? 

So a few things to consider...

1. Is a 10 minute first boil enough to get rid of DMS?

2. Will the remaining SMM give it too much of an off flavor?

3. Because of these concerns would it be better just to boil it for a full 60 minutes without hops and then add water right before the hop boil to maintain proper %'s?

4. If we decide that doing a 60 minute boil makes sense should we add a small amount of hops just for preservative(antibacterial) sake? 

No, you want the bittering hops in there for 60 minutes.  The hop resins isomerize (?) Into alpha acid under heat and time.  If not boiled long enough, that doesn't happen and the beer will be too sweet.

I'm all for leaving out flavoring and stomach hops though.